Cleverly opponent for October 15th

First topic message reminder :

Over on boxingscene:

http://www.boxingscene.com/cleverly-vs-simcic-play-cardiffs-motorpoint-oct--56518

Should put a lot of minds to rest, and calm those worries that the fearless one was going to face anything other than a top class opponent. His opponent has only one loss and has even beaten one Tomas Adamek. No, not Chad Dawson...

Cleverly is officially the biggest joke in boxing right now.

BoomBoomBaby wrote:Quick question....does Cleverly deserve a shot at the big names in the division with who he has fought so far? Please disregard the title he holds

Quick answer is no. Also, agree fully with you earlier comments regarding state of boxing today.

Manos - I think you actually touch on a valid point.

Im not sure it's a case of Warren not wanting to line up bigger fights, more a case of he simply can't afford to anymore. I would go as far as to say that he has no big names in his stable of fighters anymore...the most marketable probably is David Price (assuming he has signed with him).

We have seen that plenty of fighters have wanted out from his promotion company in the past couple of years.

If you look at his current stable the biggest names their are:

James Degale - Who has announced he wants out of his contract and has barely fought in the past 18 months.

George Groves - Consistent injury problems have restricted his appearances since signing with Frank...and contractually he is still in part linked with Hayemaker who part manage him.

Derek Chisora - Has had 2 big fights but again you would now say he is likely to be a fringe contender at best for his next few fights.

Nathan Cleverely - Has shown signs of being a good prospect but continuously fails to step it up a level and is stuck fighting tomato can euro level fighters.

In fact the only operator in his stable who seemingly could get a proper world title/big name fight in the near future is Ricky Burns. Again he is hardly a known commodity outside of these shores.

Then you have Mitchell, John Murray, Paul Smith....

All of which you would have to say look at a push good european level fighter but nothing more.

And this for me is the major problem for Warren. He does not posses the big name fighters to move onto the World Stage. Because he lacks a big name who he is making money from he is struggling to financially lure people into fighting his charges...

The likes of Hopkins, Dawson, Marquez etc are going to cost money to bring over to the UK...money which he no longer can generate.

He also has a major lack of ties abroad now because of the fiasco with Calzaghe....Hatton...Khan. Seemingly the issues he had with those has made a difference to his standing also.

You could say well maybe he needs to stack his cards and plenty more people will tune in. He has enough people and a fair few good youngsters with his promotion company, but even here he has shot himself in the foot.

He decided to launch his own Television company and with that comes the need to fill a certain amount of dates within the boxing calendar to appease subscribers. This means he has to spread his boxers out, so instead of stacked cards we get 4/5 fight cards put on by him with maybe 1 of them actually being decent...

There was a time when he had Calzaghe & Hatton in his stable, both generating huge numbers....before that he had Benn, Prince Naseem hamed....

Then lets not forget the legal cases he has had to fight in the past 5 years including two significantly damaging ones against Hatton & Calzaghe which cost him millions and forced the closure of Sports Network.

All in all Warren is just a small promoter in a very large pond now, as much as he likes to pretend not to be in his weekly 'very poor' column in The Sun. Any boxers under him are going to suffer hugely and with the Hearn/SKY partnership being announced I expect plenty to follow the likes of Tony Bellew out of the door in the coming 18 months.

rowley wrote:Can’t wait till gordy gets hold of this news, will only be a matter of time before we are told how Cleverly is a sky hype job and things were better in the golden age of the light heavies when giants like Mark Prince, Maurice Core and Nicky Piper bestrode the division.

If I were Cleverly I'd go up to the Heavyweight division I mean I know his recent fights have been bad but all experts agree that this is the worst era for the Heavyweights ever! Cleverly is not that much smaller than Marciano, who would be champion if he were around today, so if he can beat the Klitschkos who are no good then so can Cleverly.

People who know their boxing know that Calzaghe could beat the Klitschkos and he even said it himself! And Cleverly has a lot in common with Calzaghe - they are both Welsh, and both have heads. So if he could do it I think Cleverly can, too. He should fight the Heavyweights because this is the worst era ever for Heavyweight boxing and all experts will tell you that.

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

To be fair fair SDM
Froch more paper
Clev more paper mache.
It's not fair to class them in the same category

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

88Chris05 wrote:

rowley wrote:Can’t wait till gordy gets hold of this news, will only be a matter of time before we are told how Cleverly is a sky hype job and things were better in the golden age of the light heavies when giants like Mark Prince, Maurice Core and Nicky Piper bestrode the division.

If I were Cleverly I'd go up to the Heavyweight division I mean I know his recent fights have been bad but all experts agree that this is the worst era for the Heavyweights ever! Cleverly is not that much smaller than Marciano, who would be champion if he were around today, so if he can beat the Klitschkos who are no good then so can Cleverly.

People who know their boxing know that Calzaghe could beat the Klitschkos and he even said it himself! And Cleverly has a lot in common with Calzaghe - they are both Welsh, and both have heads. So if he could do it I think Cleverly can, too. He should fight the Heavyweights because this is the worst era ever for Heavyweight boxing and all experts will tell you that.

Really starting to develop a knack for his writing style there Chris. You could be the man himself........in fact, are you?

I wish, mate. I just want to be accepted as a boxing expert like Gordy, really - imitation is the highest form of flattery and I wasn't kidding when I said that I always have my pen and notepad at the ready when I see that Gordy has been posting.

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

In what way is Froch a paper champion? He beat an unbeaten champion who was roundly expected to be too good for him (including by me I will admit). Surely this makes him legitamate

BoomBoomBaby wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

To be fair fair SDM
Froch more paper
Clev more paper mache.
It's not fair to class them in the same category

It may not be fair but it's the truth in an unfair world. Both are belt holders, neither are the top man. However, Froch's paper is shiny thick glossy paper that is used for high quality photo printing and is expensive. Cleverly is more a sheet of cheap toilet paper that annoyingly disintegrates when you use it!

bhb001 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

In what way is Froch a paper champion? He beat an unbeaten champion who was roundly expected to be too good for him (including by me I will admit). Surely this makes him legitamate

Because there should only be one champion per division and Froch is unfortunate enough to be in the same division as Ward who beat him comfortably. Also Kessler would have just as much of a claim to be the man in the division as Froch.

I have only just been bothered to look this one up. What a joke. I had to go halfway down the 3rd page on BoxRec before I found this clown.

Where the hell does Frank find them? And why does Cleverly agree to it all????? I sincerely hope that Cleverly loses so we're spared garbage fights like this.

bellchees wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

In what way is Froch a paper champion? He beat an unbeaten champion who was roundly expected to be too good for him (including by me I will admit). Surely this makes him legitamate

Because there should only be one champion per division and Froch is unfortunate enough to be in the same division as Ward who beat him comfortably. Also Kessler would have just as much of a claim to be the man in the division as Froch.

Except Kessler doesn't have a belt....

TopHat24/7 wrote:

bellchees wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Froch and Cleverly are rightly held to different standards. One has proven himself world class, the other hasn't. We have been spolit with Froch and now expect so much better from him. Cleverly continues to meet expectations!

Yet both are paper champions.

In what way is Froch a paper champion? He beat an unbeaten champion who was roundly expected to be too good for him (including by me I will admit). Surely this makes him legitamate

Because there should only be one champion per division and Froch is unfortunate enough to be in the same division as Ward who beat him comfortably. Also Kessler would have just as much of a claim to be the man in the division as Froch.

Except Kessler doesn't have a belt....

Martinez doesn't have a belt either and he has a pretty solid claim to be the man in the division.

Martinez is the WBC 'emeritus' champion and ring magazine champion, I take the ring belt over any of the world titles these days.

I suppose this confirms that Sukhotsky losing effectively took away his mandatory right to challenge for Cleverly's title then.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Warren bribed the Sukhotsky camp to throw their last fight, the timing is that convenient that he should lose after a string of wins.

Massive surprise here in a Frank Warren statement, lifted from boxing scene:

By Frank Warren

AFTER amazing Olympic successes for the amateurs, the professionals are back.

Britain’s three world champions — Nathan Cleverly, Carl Froch and Ricky Burns — are in action over the next couple of months.

Cleverly’s next defence of the WBO world light-heavyweight title will be announced on Monday.

It’s proved tough making a match for the young unbeaten Welshman with a number of high-profile fights falling through for various reasons.

The main target was American great Bernard Hopkins but after I agreed terms with his promoter Golden Boy, he pulled out. We’ll look to resurrect the fight next year.

IBF world supermiddleweight champion Froch turned down a huge purse to step up a division to take on Cleverly.

Froch is to defend against American Yusef Mack on November 17 in Nottingham.

Although Mack’s been around a long time, at 32, he’s three years younger than Froch.

September’s highlight will be Ricky Burns against Kevin Mitchell in Glasgow, It is shaping up to be one of the best all-British world title fights for years.

So there you have it, it's official: both Hopkins and Froch are ducking Cleverly, which is the ONLY reason he's fighting a Bulgarian milkman.

Full article here: http://www.boxingscene.com/frank-warren-on-hattons-return-froch-cleverly-more--56606

I don't know what's worse, listening to Warren talk pish or listening to Cleverley talking pish. s.Seeing as they will be looking to secure the fight again NEXT YEAR!, we have another couple of these lovely defenses to look forward to. I'm just glad he didn't take the same path with Ricky Burns, at least he's been given some decent fights after a few shabby defenses.

if it was actually offered froch should have ripped franks arm of, a chance to be a 2 weight world champion, big payday and at a time he's struggling to get opponents.

eddyfightfan wrote:if it was actually offered froch should have ripped franks arm of, a chance to be a 2 weight world champion, big payday and at a time he's struggling to get opponents.

Exactly, think Froch would happily take the fight, coming in light at c.172, and give poor Clev a lesson in elite level boxing. 116-112 UD, unless he tries to barnstorm it like Bute and there's a ref stoppage around round 6.

Would take Frank’s claim that he offered Froch the fight with a huge pinch of salt, he used to say the same about Haye with Enzo, conveniently forgetting to mention the contract had options left right and centre that would have tied Haye to Frank for the rest of his career. This is a typical Warren ploy, says an offer was made to make it sound as if Clev is being avoided by all and sundry, completely ignores the fact Froch is tied to Sky and as such would be almost certainly unable to fight on Boxnation and has a legal obligation to fight Bute soon so probably has no desire to move to light heavy yet

rowley wrote:Would take Frank’s claim that he offered Froch the fight with a huge pinch of salt, he used to say the same about Haye with Enzo, conveniently forgetting to mention the contract had options left right and centre that would have tied Haye to Frank for the rest of his career. This is a typical Warren ploy, says an offer was made to make it sound as if Clev is being avoided by all and sundry, completely ignores the fact Froch is tied to Sky and as such would be almost certainly unable to fight on Boxnation and has a legal obligation to fight Bute soon so probably has no desire to move to light heavy yet

That's very cyncial Jeff. I actually think Froch was offered millions, as was Dawson and Hopkins, no contract options just a one off fight for a hell of a lot of money. I think that Froch has ducked out. I think they're all ducking Cleverly because they know they'll lose badly!

Where is Cleverly's numero uno fan Steffany!?

Her silence is almost deafening.

We all know your reading this Steff so swallow your pride and let us know how you feel about this match up. Even though you said that you would never follow Cleverly again if he takes a silly match after the nurse fight.

Come on Ssssssteffo!!

Frank Warren was Calzaghes manager and I think he is trying to con people into believing Cleverly is the next Calzaghe. Calzaghe was another class altogether though. No comparison.

So Cleverly's next opponent is.......

Vyacheslav Uzelkov

Beaten by Shumenov in his 9th fight (Easily) and is ranked number 41 in the world.....

Don't really know what else to say, its already been said.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Where is Cleverly's numero uno fan Steffany!?

Her silence is almost deafening.

We all know your reading this Steff so swallow your pride and let us know how you feel about this match up. Even though you said that you would never follow Cleverly again if he takes a silly match after the nurse fight.

Come on Ssssssteffo!!

In fairness Steffan did say he wouldn't be on the boards for a while....don't think he's hiding anywhere. And he's no D4, don't think if he would/could defend this!

Hahaha BHop just attack Frank on Twitter for using his name to promote Clev. Hearn then followed up re Froch

Uzelkov has fought almost exclusively in the Ukraine with two of his three fights outside of it being loses. I don't think he travels well!

Only winner the night Cleverly fought Bellew was Bellew.

I still maintain that Cleverly landed a few sneaky low blows in that fight that changed the momentum.

I wasn't greatly fussed about the idea of a Bellew rematch at first, as I was operating under the assumption that Cleverly would perhaps be facing a legitimate top ten Light-Heavyweight within the next twelve months afterwards.

As that's not the case, then I find myself warming to the possibility more and more. I suspect it'd be the same result, but it would at least be a tough and lucrative test for Cleverly.

With Bellew leaving Warren's stable, however, we can kiss it goodbye.

Is Clev, at light heavy, attempting to emulate Calzaghe's record of super-middleweight defences by rarely fighting outside of Wales (or the UK) and fighting questionable opponents?

Like Calzaghe, he may become a household name after his 18th defence or so, fight a couple of decent names and become an ATG!?!

As I said earlier Mackem, think that is exactly the plan, rightly or wrongly there is a respect and rating that comes just through sheer longevity and think Frank's plan is allow that to happen and hope that by the time Clev is a few years in he will have gained enough experience to turn over one of the better fighters at the weight, and even if he hasn't if he has 15 defences behind him Frank will have made enough money not to get too upset should be fail.

Cleverly is not even in the same league as Calzaghe. No comparison.

Gordy wrote:Cleverly is not even in the same league as Calzaghe. No comparison.

Not sure anyone has ever argued he is, but as you were.

Gordy wrote:Cleverly is not even in the same league as Calzaghe. No comparison.

Another wonderful contribution from Broken Records Inc.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Gordy wrote:Cleverly is not even in the same league as Calzaghe. No comparison.

Another wonderful contribution from Broken Records Inc.

No, but you don't understand: modern boxers are just not in the same league. There is no comparison!

Do you get it now?

Lol, it's how you know he's a WUM. Any normal human being who genuinely held these opinions (even if they weren't very bright or were very young) would have buckled under the weight of ostricisation and 100% lack of respect from other posters for their opinions.

Only a WUM could continue this.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Hahaha BHop just attack Frank on Twitter for using his name to promote Clev. Hearn then followed up re Froch

What did they say. Damn twitter blocked at work...

TopHat24/7 wrote:Lol, it's how you know he's a WUM. Any normal human being who genuinely held these opinions (even if they weren't very bright or were very young) would have buckled under the weight of ostricisation and 100% lack of respect from other posters for their opinions.

Only a WUM could continue this.

If it is a wind up, and I really think it might be, then I've got to say that I'm really impressed by the consistency and dedication to the task he's showing. He never breaks character!

TopHat24/7 wrote:Lol, it's how you know he's a WUM. Any normal human being who genuinely held these opinions (even if they weren't very bright or were very young) would have buckled under the weight of ostricisation and 100% lack of respect from other posters for their opinions.

Only a WUM could continue this.

You are the boring one if anyone is mate. You dont seem interested in talking about sports at all. Its not the sign of a mature poster who starts following another poster around calling him a goon or an idiot when he is taking the time to try and explain boxing to you. If I see someone who has made a mistake in understanding boxing then I will point it out to them. I think its you thats opinion is not respected because you are not willing to try and learn or understand the points people make. I dont mind if people want to believe the hype they hear because I know when I am right and if people cant spot the hype or do not understand boxing then that is their problem at the end of the day. They are the ones who will look foolish.

Got to say I agree Tophat, if someone is kind enough to school you in the finer points of the sport the least you could do is listen, a little gratitude would perhaps not go a miss either but we'll walk before we can run.

rowley wrote:Got to say I agree Tophat, if someone is kind enough to school you in the finer points of the sport the least you could do is listen, a little gratitude would perhaps not go a miss either but we'll walk before we can run.

Fair enough. God forbid anyone would 'make a mistake in understanding boxing'.

Uzelkov is actually a better opponent than I was expecting. I had really really really low expectations though.

Gordy wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Lol, it's how you know he's a WUM. Any normal human being who genuinely held these opinions (even if they weren't very bright or were very young) would have buckled under the weight of ostricisation and 100% lack of respect from other posters for their opinions.

Only a WUM could continue this.

You are the boring one if anyone is mate. You dont seem interested in talking about sports at all. Its not the sign of a mature poster who starts following another poster around calling him a goon or an idiot when he is taking the time to try and explain boxing to you. If I see someone who has made a mistake in understanding boxing then I will point it out to them. I think its you thats opinion is not respected because you are not willing to try and learn or understand the points people make. I dont mind if people want to believe the hype they hear because I know when I am right and if people cant spot the hype or do not understand boxing then that is their problem at the end of the day. They are the ones who will look foolish.

I cut the immature goon comments out at Rowley's request. I was being childish and was suitably admonished.

Even my poor knowledge has grown immeasurably thanks to the teachings of the many wonderful posters on this site, both the straight and the controversial ones, but you are teaching people nothing. You know 4 boxers names, that is it, not even their careers (bar maybe LL).

You couldn't, for example, name 8 fights any of your favourite boxers had been in. How is that knowledge? How is that educating people?

rowley wrote:As I said earlier Mackem, think that is exactly the plan, rightly or wrongly there is a respect and rating that comes just through sheer longevity and think Frank's plan is allow that to happen and hope that by the time Clev is a few years in he will have gained enough experience to turn over one of the better fighters at the weight, and even if he hasn't if he has 15 defences behind him Frank will have made enough money not to get too upset should be fail.

I wasn't trying to steal your thunder, I just hadn't read through the previous posts.

I agree, its a fantastic business plan but careers' of this ilk are an insult to the less gullible fight fan.

I think boxing fans are the some of the most disrespected fans of all sports. The powers that be abuse our loyality, stupidity, and passion for the game...... and all we ever do is grumble like a typical proles (I realise you're probably middle class and consider the term "prole" to be an insult).

TheMackemMawler wrote:(I realise you're probably middle class and consider the term "prole" to be an insult).

I'm from Rotherham mate, if you're tattoos are spelt correctly you're considered middle class.

Gordy, should probably not get dragged in but what gives you the arrogance to assume you know more than people on here and they should automatically defer to your opinion, because from what I can see you have hardly demonstrated an encyclopedic knowledge of the sport in your time on here, because beyond an obsession with Lennox Lewis and an unshakeable belief that any British fighter operating in the early 90s was some sort of all time great if I was being blunt I would say I had not seen any kind of knowledge from you.

When one considers you have, on a number of occasions ignored perfectly reasonable requests to support your opinions or things you claim are facts with actual evidence or corroboration there seems to me little to no reason why anyone would feel compelled to change or reevaluate their own position on a subject simply because it runds contrary to yours.

Ban him, ban him, ban him!!!!

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Ban him, ban him, ban him!!!!

+1

I almost want to lock this thread, for 2 reasons.

1. It is becoming about Gordy

2. Clev DOES NOT EVER deserve a thread of more than 100 comments, ha.

Carry on.