So...Nadal finally makes it clear when he's returning

He'll return from knee injury at the Abu Dhabi exhibition tournament, Dec. 27-29.
Guess makes sense, low key event but with strong opposition (e.g. Murray).
Looks like AO2013 is on then too.

http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/10/nadal-targets-return-december-exhibition/39631/

Good news.

Well let's hope he can make that date. I would've expected him to maybe wait until the new year to play.

Either way it is good news to hear.

Yep I thought that too LK, actually earlier than I expected. I guess at 2nd October he's still got effectively almost 3 months before then though to recover further.

I looking at the amount of time he's had out with injury since 2004 and it actually totals around a year and half out of his career!

Yet there will be some that think he has 'enhanced' himself to somehow have the career he has had.

I do wonder however what would happen if he were to be struck down by injury again in 2013 and maybe retire. All the rehab he has done in itself would've put anyone else off :shocked:

Good news I suppose!
Except I won't see him at O2 this year (Anyway he probably wouldn't have reached SF on indoor HC.)

LK, Good to see you have changed your mind about Nadal
Apologies if I got too annoyed earlier

Twill be good to see Rafa back and those top four match-ups on the agenda again.
The pity has been that we've had no way of assessing how Rafa would have got on against a rejuvenated Fed or an in-ascendancy Murray in the second half of 2012.
Amazing really that Rafa has fallen no further in the rankings than he has, in no small part due to the fact that the other big four players have hoovered up most of the big points in his absence. Neither Rafa nor the other big three will fancy Rafa slipping out of the top four.

IMBL,

My opinion of Nadal has never been a negative one. Some of his views have sometimes have left a lot to be desired as has his court behaviour at times. No player is ever going to draw positive comments all the the time.

I am a Murray fan and despite him winning a Slam, there will always be those who will speak of him in negative terms. How people put across their views of Murray in a negative view are often short sighted and done in a 'lets have a dig to annoy his supporters' manner.

All I can say to you is not be so emotive in support of Nadal even if he draws negative views. On here his criticisms are far less scrupulous than that last year. Like I stated, no player will ever generated permanent praise and positivity comments.



Not every negative comment requires defence

I thought this is what would happen once he withdrew from the US it was unlikely he as going to force himself back for the indoors where he has never had as much success and where his body would take a pounding on the hardcourt surfaces. I actually look for Nadal to comeback stronger in 2013, he was playing extremely well when he went down to injury having just won the french open. To me a healthy and fit Nadal is still one of the cornerstones of the tour and he brings a lot of fan support and interest to the game. Never a good thing when one of the true greats suffers so many injuries in his prime.

what socal said. There's no doubt in my mind that Rafa raised his game this year: against Djokovic it's been noticeable that he's using the DL FH a lot more in the rallies (rather than as a finishing shot) to put the Djokovic FH (his more fallible shot) under pressure for instance. The tour is a poorer place without Nadal, so here's hoping he comes back fit and healthy.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:what socal said. There's no doubt in my mind that Rafa raised his game this year: against Djokovic it's been noticeable that he's using the DL FH a lot more in the rallies (rather than as a finishing shot) to put the Djokovic FH (his more fallible shot) under pressure for instance. The tour is a poorer place without Nadal, so here's hoping he comes back fit and healthy.

Since you agreed with me twice in a row MFC, I retract my hurtful comments on terry. Who says Arsenal and chelsea fans can't agree. Yes Nadal was better at the start of 2012 than he was in the first of 2011. Although despite popular opinion he played pretty damn great reaching 7 finals in a row in 2011 he just kept losing to one guy. I harken back to 09 when he went down after playing some of the most dominant tennis I have ever seen. He came back in 2010 fit, healthy, and with a fire in his belly and no one could stop him. I don't think he will comeback and push around murray and Novak. But I think both guys will need a strong off season to hold Nadal off.

Its going to take Nadal a month to get going surely after this much time out.
He was doing well this year until Wimbledon if you look at his results...he could still easily qualify for the year ending championships from just his first 4 months work.

But the game doesnt stand still. In his absence the other guys get stronger and stronger, and who knows what might have happened to his game in the interim - not to mention his hunger to play and fight as before.

Those periods before didnt have as long a lay-off as this, but at least we hear the knee joint itself is strong so hopefully he schedules better and gets to be a 30 year old tennis player.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

My opinion of Nadal has never been a negative one. Some of his views have sometimes have left a lot to be desired as has his court behaviour at times. No player is ever going to draw positive comments all the the time.

I am a Murray fan and despite him winning a Slam, there will always be those who will speak of him in negative terms. How people put across their views of Murray in a negative view are often short sighted and done in a 'lets have a dig to annoy his supporters' manner.

Ha ha! I could say something very similar but reverse names...

Some of his (Murray's)views have sometimes left a lot to be desired as has his court behaviour at times. No player is ever going to draw positive comments all the the time.

I am a Nadal fan and despite him winning loads of Slams, there will always be those who will speak of him in negative terms. How people put across their views of Nadal in a negative view are often short sighted and done in a 'lets have a dig to annoy his supporters' manner.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Yet there will be some that think he has 'enhanced' himself to somehow have the career he has had.

I do wonder however what would happen if he were to be struck down by injury again in 2013 and maybe retire. All the rehab he has done in itself would've put anyone else off :shocked:

Huh! I'm not sure what this means. How has Nadal "enhanced" himself with his physical problems? I would guess that without them he would be looking at a few more slam titles and would have had a good shot at the non calendar career slam.

Also any player could be struck down by injury next year so why pick on Nadal? Is rehab really so difficult that you think multi slam winning all time greats would rather retire than get on with it?

Anyway great that Nadal has set a date for return. If things go well he could be fully fit for the AO.

Agreed lydian it will be harder to comeback than it was in 2010. But I actually think a long agassi type lay off might be exactly what Nadal needs physically and mentally.

hawkeye wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

My opinion of Nadal has never been a negative one. Some of his views have sometimes have left a lot to be desired as has his court behaviour at times. No player is ever going to draw positive comments all the the time.

I am a Murray fan and despite him winning a Slam, there will always be those who will speak of him in negative terms. How people put across their views of Murray in a negative view are often short sighted and done in a 'lets have a dig to annoy his supporters' manner.

Ha ha! I could say something very similar but reverse names...

Some of his (Murray's)views have sometimes left a lot to be desired as has his court behaviour at times. No player is ever going to draw positive comments all the the time.

I am a Nadal fan and despite him winning loads of Slams, there will always be those who will speak of him in negative terms. How people put across their views of Nadal in a negative view are often short sighted and done in a 'lets have a dig to annoy his supporters' manner.

Ambiguous again!

Yes sometimes he has a thing for theatrics or swearing. Comes down to preference though. Some would argue that Nadal's problems are often inflated, yet so are Murrays.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Yet there will be some that think he has 'enhanced' himself to somehow have the career he has had.

I do wonder however what would happen if he were to be struck down by injury again in 2013 and maybe retire. All the rehab he has done in itself would've put anyone else off :shocked:

Huh! I'm not sure what this means. How has Nadal "enhanced" himself with his physical problems? I would guess that without them he would be looking at a few more slam titles and would have had a good shot at the non calendar career slam.

Also any player could be struck down by injury next year so why pick on Nadal? Is rehab really so difficult that you think multi slam winning all time greats would rather retire than get on with it?

Anyway great that Nadal has set a date for return. If things go well he could be fully fit for the AO.

I think you know what that means. For legal reasons I won't come out and say it so subtley

I think LK is alluding to what Nadal's detractors always post...i.e scientific help. Nadal will never shake that off because of his physical prowess...and yet people have never pointed fingers at Djokovic (or Federer either for that matter) who for example who has appeared equally as fit, if not fitter at times. Not that they should point fingers...just saying.

Yep socal, he looked a bit jaded after 2011 and then 2012 was going well but you felt he'd never properly recovered from 2011 or 2012AO. Hopefully its given him chance to reassess his life, priorities and that his career is precious so why waste it on tin-pot tournaments that tire him out...he's getting on for 27 next so needs to just start focusing on 500s/1000s/slams only...and missing key ones inbetween too, i.e. like Federer's always done. As much as he loves clay he needs to drop an event between MC and RG too.

It's great that Nadal will be back for the AO. A shame that he will miss the end of year championships at the O2, but I guess we all knew that.

It will be interesting to see how he comes back, but I am sure it will be with all guns blazing but I don't suppose for one second that at this stage in his career, he would return until he felt that he had a chance at the title.

He has alluded to maybe playing more clay tournaments in the South American swing - do you still see him doing that Lydian?

lydian wrote:

But the game doesnt stand still. In his absence the other guys get stronger and stronger, and who knows what might have happened to his game in the interim - not to mention his hunger to play and fight as before.

Have you seen any quantum leaps in the game since Wimbledon? Can't say that I have. Federer went into a bit of a slump after Wimbledon, Djokovic has returned to pre 2011 levels. Murray may have won a slam but who apart from maybe his fans who has witnessed any concrete change to his game? Has any other player improved to such an extent that they are now more of a threat than before Wimbledon? Guys getting stronger and stonger? Really?

Something bad could have happened to Nadal's game I suppose. But he's been hitting forehands and backhands for quite a while so chances are the memory should come back to him once he starts playing again. And any player could lose their hunger to fight at any time.

lydian wrote:I think LK is alluding to what Nadal's detractors always post...i.e scientific help. Nadal will never shake that off because of his physical prowess...and yet people have never pointed fingers at Djokovic (or Federer either for that matter) who for example who has appeared equally as fit, if not fitter at times. Not that they should point fingers...just saying.

Yep socal, he looked a bit jaded after 2011 and then 2012 was going well but you felt he'd never properly recovered from 2011 or 2012AO. Hopefully its given him chance to reassess his life, priorities and that his career is precious so why waste it on tin-pot tournaments that tire him out...he's getting on for 27 next so needs to just start focusing on 500s/1000s/slams only...and missing key ones inbetween too, i.e. like Federer's always done. As much as he loves clay he needs to drop an event between MC and RG too.

Yes this is most distasteful aspect of the extreme nadal hater and fed apologist the constant inneundo about PEDs. One poster on this site could even tell you the exact chemichal content of Nadal's blood without even testing him from the comfort of his keyboard. Eventhough I am not a Nadal fan I often would get accused of being one and attacked by these haters because I would dispute their unfounded allegations.

Either way, I find it pretty amusing when some of those same people accuse me of unfaily denigrating the accomplishments of other players. How they are able to turn off their hypocrisy and shame meters I don't know.

time please wrote:It's great that Nadal will be back for the AO. A shame that he will miss the end of year championships at the O2, but I guess we all knew that.

It will be interesting to see how he comes back, but I am sure it will be with all guns blazing but I don't suppose for one second that at this stage in his career, he would return until he felt that he had a chance at the title.

He has alluded to maybe playing more clay tournaments in the South American swing - do you still see him doing that Lydian?

I'm pretty sure he would rather take February off rather than spend it running around in South America. Although I'm sure Federer and Djokovic would be the first to suggest this as rehabilitation. Ha ha! I bet he wouldn't say no the the the Tournament organisers in Indian Wells and Miami if they offered to hold their events on grass though...

He may play those TP...but they are a long way in coming back from Australia...does he really want to do that? Perhaps he'll want to see how the HCs from late Dec to end of AO fare for him and decide. But he can gain alot of points that way...the downside is that the matches can be grind even though its clay so would he rather play for 1-2 hours on HC in Dubai, etc, or 2-3 hours on clay in S.America per match?

HE...when have we ever seen quantum leaps in tennis. They tend to occur with new players. But even so players just get better and better all the time - and they do get stronger from year to year. Look at Ferrer and others, they're much tougher now than say 5-6 years ago. When you see Murray coming on, and Rafa not playing for 6 months it will take him alot to adjust back to full speed playing again. Not that he cant do it...but I just dont expect him to come back and win AO2013. If he did I'd be gobsmacked.

Yep socal...he attracts alot of negativity...usually from the more extremist Federer fans of course given the H2H and contrast in style. The game is poorer without him...it'll be good to see the big match-ups again between the top4. But I'd be surprised if he comes and beats them straight off the bat.

No lydian it won't be straight off the bat, I am sure he will not be at his best at the AO or by Miami. But I could see him again making his big push in the clay court season and building towards wimbeldon with a lot more in his tank next year as opposed to this year.

Yep...he should focus on RG and Wimb as they are realistic prospects for him without having to kill himself. If he could do that for a couple of years he's knocking on a huge slam count. For me with him it has to be about Masters and slams now surely...and selected ones at that. He doesnt have much more to prove in the game, time to be selective and ignore what Toni tells him!

Wait a minute! Why isn't Federer playing in Abu Dhabi? Doesn't he always plays there.

Yes he does...guess he just hasnt confirmed yet. But he did say he was looking to reassess...however I'd be surprised if he didnt do it considering he lives in Dubai!

To me Nadal shouldn't play Abu Dhabi or Dubai after the AO. Take it back to the dirt young man, after AO he should take a plane to south America and conncect with the spanish speaking fans and play the golden swing down there.

If his knee is healed enough by then, then it is really good news.

Looking forward to seeing him back and playing at his best.

lydian wrote:Yes he does...guess he just hasnt confirmed yet. But he did say he was looking to reassess...however I'd be surprised if he didnt do it considering he lives in Dubai!

Is Dubai not used as Federer Base Camp for training during the short winter break rather than actually living there as such ....?

Think I read somewhere that they ship in a host of aspiring juniors to hit with him, and that he wears them out one after the other in the Gulf humidity ......

Yes I think you're right lags, more a winter base.
I had heard that too...you can imagine Federer ralleying with each hapless volunteer until they collapse followed by him shouting "Next!".

Maybe Nadal could benefit from a hit with him too

socal1976 wrote:To me Nadal shouldn't play Abu Dhabi or Dubai after the AO. Take it back to the dirt young man, after AO he should take a plane to south America and conncect with the spanish speaking fans and play the golden swing down there.

Ha ha! Spoken like a true Djokovic fan. Those AO courts are nasty hard courts too. Maybe he should also give them a miss? After all there would be no point playing on them without a little practice first...

lydian wrote:Yes I think you're right lags, more a winter base.
I had heard that too...you can imagine Federer ralleying with each hapless volunteer until they collapse followed by him shouting "Next!".

Maybe Nadal could benefit from a hit with him too

Nah! These two should never hit without an audience. The AO final could provide one?

Great news!

Rafa has a lot of detractors, but I have always said that big tournaments are more fun to watch with Rafa in them rather than without him.

Fingers crossed he can get back to a high level sooner rather than later. He's box office, and this is good news for tennis.

Yes, let's hope he quickly reaches peak form - which we know he has been able to do after previous enforced lay-offs.

As with any player hovering around 26/27, time is becoming more and more precious for Rafa. In mid 2015 he will turn 29 and I think many would question just how much longer his knees will hold up beyond that. So starting from his Dec/Jan return (and always assuming no further serious injuries) perhaps just 2 or 2.5 more years of top flight tennis ....??

lags72 wrote:Yes, let's hope he quickly reaches peak form - which we know he has been able to do after previous enforced lay-offs.

As with any player hovering around 26/27, time is becoming more and more precious for Rafa. In mid 2015 he will turn 29 and I think many would question just how much longer his knees will hold up beyond that. So starting from his Dec/Jan return (and always assuming no further serious injuries) perhaps just 2 or 2.5 more years of top flight tennis ....??

But this is true for Federer too! At 31 he is practically ancient (looking great on it though...) And also Djokovic who according to Nadal plays a much more demanding style of tennis. This is what Nadal has to say about Djokovics playing style.

"Before, I used to cover the court a lot, as it was the only way to pay against the top players. Now, I don’t cover the court as much as Djokovic. But that’s because I play a better style of tennis now.”

https://www.606v2.com/t35335-nadal-the-future-looks-bright

Not to mention Murray who despite being described as late to mature is also in tennis years practically ancient. Murray also has a huge frame and plays an even more demanding style than Djokovic. Both Djokovic and Murray are a mere 11 months younger than Nadal. Nadal may have a freakish talent that enabled him to win big from an early age however all pro players will have spent an unhealthy amount of time from the age of 3 or 4 playing way too much tennis...


If Nadal comes back fully fit I wonder exactly where his competition is going to come...

He's waiting for Murray's new godly found form to drop before he steps between La Líneas de Tranvía to be honest Nadal does not like hard court does he so I won't be surprised he finds a reason to pull out of AO.

Just rest until Monte Carlo/Rome again hardcourts are too challenging for a limited player.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:He's waiting for Murray's new godly found form to drop before he steps between La Líneas de Tranvía to be honest Nadal does not like hard court does he so I won't be surprised he finds a reason to pull out of AO.

Just rest until Monte Carlo/Rome again hardcourts are too challenging for a limited player.

For someone who doesn't like HC his record on the surface, inc. %W:L, is right up there. He won't be pulling out of AO unless his knee hasn't recovered.
Limited? Lol...yeah right. If only all the other players were as limited.

Limited

Dear me.

Yep socal...he attracts alot of negativity...usually from the more extremist Federer fans of course given the H2H and contrast in style. The game is poorer without him...it'll be good to see the big match-ups again between the top4. But I'd be surprised if he comes and beats them straight off the bat..
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Oh how I do agree .. if half what is said about Rafa was directed to Federer posters would be hounded off these boards if not banned entirely.
So many Rafa fans have left 606v2.. as for myself not because of the criticisms that are made of him regarding his game, his time wasting, MTO. off court coaching, cheating etc etc etc. But the consant wind ups and trolling that 606v2 seems to permit regarding Nadal.
The game, imo is poorer without him- He is an enigmatic player who has much appeal even if he is the man you love to hate (as was Johnny Mc) But to deny he is a player with enormous talent is nothing if not ridiculous He has done so much for the game and his achievements cannot be brought into question. The constant rivalry between Fed/Nadal fans is undeniable but I have never professed that Rafa is the GOAT. Why cannot both sets of fans "rub along" together we have got neither of them for very much longer.

If Rafa returns for Abu Dhabi I will be more than delighted to see him on court aqain (however good or bad he plays) but I wont hold my breath.. frankly I think Rafa is under pressure to return.. probably sick and tired of people asking him when???

Why cannot both sets of fans "rub along" together we have got neither of them for very much longer.

I should sit idly by when Nadal is cheating in parts of his match then yea thats a good one let's just ignore when he does gamesmanship in getting the upper hand shall we eh!

"Not every negative comment requires defence " To quote Legendkiller
I rest my case

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Not every negative comment requires defence

To be fair to me, LK (if I may defend myself) , my policy is that I say something when I see something I don't agree with. Irrelevant of whether it's about Nadal, Nick Clegg, or Kevin Pietersen.

Danny and Carrieg can be my witness that on another thread Hawkeye implied that Nadal always crushes Murray unless he is injured, and I actually came out and defended Murray. Because I didn't agree with Hawkeye's point. In-fact I have done this quite a few times- and HE actually thought I was a Murray fan at one point! I can give you the link if you don't believe me.
I do try and be balanced, but I will always admit I am a Nadal fan, I don't pretend I am totally neutral like Switzerland.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Yep socal...he attracts alot of negativity...usually from the more extremist Federer fans of course given the H2H and contrast in style. The game is poorer without him...it'll be good to see the big match-ups again between the top4. But I'd be surprised if he comes and beats them straight off the bat..
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Oh how I do agree .. if half what is said about Rafa was directed to Federer posters would be hounded off these boards if not banned entirely.
So many Rafa fans have left 606v2.. as for myself not because of the criticisms that are made of him regarding his game, his time wasting, MTO. off court coaching, cheating etc etc etc. But the consant wind ups and trolling that 606v2 seems to permit regarding Nadal.

This is god's honest truth no one dishes it like fed fans and if in return you say the tiniest thing that somehow is seen as unfair or diminishing towards federer they attack en masse like a pack. NOw I must say the vast majority of fed fans on this site are quality posters and fair. However it is very clear who brought the fighting to the forum. It was a certain group of fed extremists who visited here, most are gone now thankfully but a great deal of the animosity generated has not. I know it hasn't died down with me and I am still the lightening rod for much of the hardcore fed extremists, but frankly none of that will ever change my beliefs or my sense of right, wrong, or honor. And I tell you right now if any player, any player was subjected to the years of ridiculous negativity and character attacks that SOME fed fans have laid on Nadal I would stand up for him.

Despite many of opinions being unpopular I will continue to make my points and say it like it is. The fighting was brought here by a cadre of mean spirited and attack minded fed fans who before they arrived I can't think of a single real fight on this site. Haddie remembers when I first posted I am sure. I was the only proud Djoko fan mixed in with a couple of murray fans and dozens of Nadal fans. Haddie was I ever subjected to this type of treatment by Nadal fans at the time even when Nadal was losing multiple finals in a row? So I lay the onus on all good intentioned fans and even those I have had issues with to raise the respect level for opposing players and their fans. We all know it isn't the Nadal or Murray, or 2 Djokovic fans on this site that do the bullying and character attacks on players and posters.

The animosity on this site is nothing like it used to be though, thankfully the bulk of the source of the animosity has moved to another site where it continues unabated, and bizarrely I even see people who were attacked mercilessly on here and JA posting over there, even creating new threads. That really surprises me to be quite frank. Perhaps some people enjoy being immersed in and amongst conflict...

I dont think this place is too bad now...its a little quiet until the next big event gets going - Shanghai Masters - and its generally quieter since Nadal isnt playing anymore, given he creates a lot of column inches.

If we want this place to thrive then surely its in our own hands to collectively make it happen - continuing to snipe away at the forum isnt going to solve anything unless we agree positive steps/solutions moving forwards...this forum just needs to be inclusive, with people feeling they can post new threads...we want to be able to discuss anything openly without animosity to posters - from whatever side it originates. Whether it be ATP tour, rules, MTOs, talent levels, youngsters, PEDs, future of the game, GB tennis, etc, etc. We dont want a sanitised site, nor do we want a site of continuous tribal bitching and arguments. What do we want???

Ivo Karlovic is more talented than Rafael Nadal

At serving, yes!

lydian wrote:At serving, yes!

No, no, at tennis.
It has been proved by my new talent formula.

Will make a thread explaining my irrefutable logic in due course

Well that'll be some formula to glean

I presume the logic will make allowances for how it took him to be 28 yo before winning his first tour title. Thats talent right there.

Socal
I will agree you have always stood by your man and I for one commend you for it. We are all entitled to our loyalties no matter who you support.
Lydian and others know me for the Nadal fan I am but I defy ANYONE to say I have ever leveled the negative, sniping and openly denegrating remarks to Federer or indeed any player that seem to be banded about when discussing Nadal. They ALL make their contribution to the game that MOST of us love beyond the players themselves.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and criticisms of players... but there is a line that is crossed on MANY occasions with regard to Rafa. Insinuations that have been made about Rafa regarding PEDS, silent bans and God knows what else would never dare be spoken about Federer.
Its WUMS and TROLLs that peeeeee me off and I and other Nadal fans will not be drawn by those who cannot enter into a discussion without one liner comments that are intended to provoke his fans into an argument. To those I say grow up.

Like Socal I may be unpopular but I stick by my belief that Nadal is worthy of more respect than he gets as a perrson and as an elite tennis player. I will agree that it is nowhere as bad as it was but Nadal fans are an open target and fair game for needless comments that contribute nothing to a discussion about tennis.

Please don't start that thread here.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Please don't start that thread here.

Why not?
This place is serious.. a bit of light hearted stuff wouldn't be too bad

btw I replied to your post at 5:25