So...Nadal finally makes it clear when he's returning

First topic message reminder :

He'll return from knee injury at the Abu Dhabi exhibition tournament, Dec. 27-29.
Guess makes sense, low key event but with strong opposition (e.g. Murray).
Looks like AO2013 is on then too.

http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/10/nadal-targets-return-december-exhibition/39631/

It Must Be Love wrote:Danny, HE wasn't singling out Murray.
The point is we can speculate anything. The top 100 could all be doping.

Even if we retrieved the drug test results, and they were all negative, we could claim they are all rigged etc.

Sometimes you can't win! I thought Danny_1982 would be pleased that I'd included Murray in such an illustrious group. Most players could do anything in their christmas holidays and no one would notice or care...

Haddie-nuff

I feel the same. I will celebrate when I see Nadal back on a practice court and not before. Maybe we could do daily practice threads to keep everyone updated on his progress? They would probably generate more interest than some of the late season tournaments...

IMBL - it's nothing to do with Murray. The point is you can't complain at people making unfounded allegations, and then make some yourself.

Well, you can.... But you make yourself look a bit daft.

I agree .HE Rafa generates more interest in his tennis when he is not playing than when he is. Not sure why that should be seeing as we are in the very vast miniority on this forum. The articles which are written about his return are as I say pure speculation.. I for one hope that he does not feel under pressure to return before he is ready..Unless its Abu Dhabi which is only an EXO I bet my bottom € he will not enter any tournament unless he feels he is capable of winning it.

Danny_1982 wrote:IMBL - it's nothing to do with Murray. The point is you can't complain at people making unfounded allegations, and then make some yourself.

Well, you can.... But you make yourself look a bit daft.

Or perhaps I make anyone making unfounded allegations look daft?

Why do so many poster make unfounded allegations against Nadal and they get off scot free? No one comes along accusing them of "looking daft". But as soon as I try to spread the speculation about you accuse me of making myself look a bit daft. Pfft!

Hadie-nuff

Mmm... I think Nadal generates quite a lot of interest when he plays too. In fact he generates quite a lot of interest whatever he does...

Danny_1982 wrote:IMBL - it's nothing to do with Murray. The point is you can't complain at people making unfounded allegations, and then make some yourself.

Well, you can.... But you make yourself look a bit daft.

No, HEs point was that accusations can always be speculated, not that the top 4 are on steroids.

Nadal has done nothing wrong. Those saying he has are just on the wind up, or believe rumour way too easily.

Those that say 'don't say unfounded things like that' and then replicate exactly the thing they are complaining about are just as bad, in my opinion.

That's all.

But the 64,000 dollar question remains Danny is to WHY unfounded things are said about Nadal.. I have just one theory..Seldom IF ever are denegrating things said about Nadal by women.. the vitriol and vindictive comments come from male posters... now why should that be?? I would like to hear your perspective

Haddie-nuff wrote:But the 64,000 dollar question remains Danny is to WHY unfounded things are said about Nadal.. I have just one theory..Seldom IF ever are denegrating things said about Nadal by women.. the vitriol and vindictive comments come from male posters... now why should that be?? I would like to hear your perspective

The million dollar question is why are unfounded things said about ANY of the top four.

Well that is true.. but Nadal comes in for a lot of stick on most tennis forums.. his biggest critics no matter whether the criticisms are founded or unfounded are from men and thats a fact. But Ive not heard PEDS associated with any other player than Nadal. The big question is why ??

Just picked this up from Nadal´s Spanish Blog.. not a good translation but I think you will get the gist.

On September 28, in Mallorca, the coach said this week as the return to training on the track, it does not make since to try to prove in August facing the U.S. Open. But the deadlines are extended: "I hope we get back to training smoothly in two weeks. And when you think of competing fully recovered. Do not know if we will play this year."

hawkeye wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:IMBL - it's nothing to do with Murray. The point is you can't complain at people making unfounded allegations, and then make some yourself.

Well, you can.... But you make yourself look a bit daft.

Or perhaps I make anyone making unfounded allegations look daft?

Why do so many poster make unfounded allegations against Nadal and they get off scot free? No one comes along accusing them of "looking daft". But as soon as I try to spread the speculation about you accuse me of making myself look a bit daft. Pfft!

I take issue with that they don't get off scot free if I am following the thread and many other posters do like lydian and IMBL stand up for him. In fact what is funny is that since 2011 the online haters have mellowed on Nadal and now are directing more attention at Djoko. Early in 2011 every fed fan was also a Djoko fan, since then Novak has become at least second villain among the attack posters. As for Nadal we all know the real reason for the ped, cheating, mto, fake injury allegations it involves his inconvenient habit of beating fed repeatedly and now almost routinely in grandslam finals. It is really childish, juvenille, and quite pathetic. I can sympathize with people who don't like his style of play, he isn't among the top 5 favorite guys I like to watch on tour probably not even top ten. But to turn the humble, sweet spaniard into the second coming beelzbub just because he beats your hero and makes him cry is really telling of your level of maturity. Especially if you spend many, many years fixated on it then you are doubley sad.

Haddie -

I would agree that he gets more stick than others. The reasons for this? I haven't really got a clue, but I'll have a few guesses at why it might be.

He gets compared to Roger and Rogers elegance, and people judge him (incredibly unfairly by the way) as just a grinder compared to Fed.

He is physically intimidating. In all sports, players that are physically imposing have a section of people that don't like them for it. Again, utter nonsense in my opinion.

The whole "he only loses when he's injured" thing. This one I mostly see from his fans, rather than Rafa himself. Yes, he has mentioned injuries after defeats in the past, but a lot if other players have too and it doesn't get as widely talked about.

He's an unbelievable competitor. This one confuses me the most. It's the reason I like him, but I think turns some people (weirdly) off him. I heard a girl at work - a Fed fan - say it annoys the hell out of her that he never stops running, defending, trying, chasing.... It was almost like she was calling him a bully! I don't get it and never have.

He is the man who has stopped Roger getting 25 slams. Now, most Fed fans I know respect Rafa, but I think there could be some that dislike him just because he is the reason Federer isn't light years ahead of everyone in total slams.

These are just my guesses, and personally I think Rafa is a superstar. Apart from the usual wind ups, these are the only things I can think of. Also I think when you reach his status it's inevitable that you attract a large number if detractors. The exception to this is of course Roger, who is universally loved.

Well Socal one thing we do know is that Fed the Invincible hasn´t much time left and then what ???? Then the wheels will fall of the bandwagon.
Novak is No1. and is now "fair game" Socal.. as we said before as any player is on this forum as long as it is not HIMSELF. They will pick on Novak because Nadal is injured cant kick a man when he is down lol and that just isnt cricket is it ??? wait till Rafa is back and then he will take up some of the slack !!!!

The exception to this is of course Roger, who is universally loved. .

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Sorry to disillusion you Danny but this is not the case... I admire him and respect his achievements... but cannot stand him as I know others who dont.However I never feel compelled to make the denegrating comments about him that are made about Nadal and Novak.As social says its childish and immature and personally I believe he as all of them make an enormous contribution to the game I love
I never liked Sampras either ... not my kind of tennis. But hey we cant love em all

I undertstand anyone not liking Nadal´s brand of tennis .. But he seems to generate another "feeling" among male posters...and its not just his tennis.

Haddie - ok, universally was perhaps over-egging it a little... But he is by a mile the most liked.

I don't get this 'male' thing you're talking about. It sounds like you think there's a reason for it. If you have a theory, share it.

Remember, Novak (quitter, egg chamber, strategic MTO's) and Murray (miserable, pusher, anything HE writes) have their unfair critics too. It's just that those 2 aren't as big globally as Rafa, Murray particularly, so it's not as regularly heard.

Danny_1982 wrote:Haddie - ok, universally was perhaps over-egging it a little... But he is by a mile the most liked.

I don't get this 'male' thing you're talking about. It sounds like you think there's a reason for it. If you have a theory, share it.

Remember, Novak (quitter, egg chamber, strategic MTO's) and Murray (miserable, pusher, anything HE writes) have their unfair critics too. It's just that those 2 aren't as big globally as Rafa, Murray particularly, so it's not as regularly heard.

On facebook Nadal has 11.2 million followers, while Roger has 11.4 million. Rafa fans tend to post on Nadal fan news sites rather than forums though.

Haddie, do you think there are any Rafa fans on 606v2 who are not female?

IMBL
In short.. if there are there are not many.
One or two like Nadal and admire his game and his achievements but fans NO.

Lets face it Nadal is a freak of nature .. there is and never has been a tennis player to compare . Nadal is different a one off which some of us find exciting and different. His extreme athleticisim sets him aside and leaves some to ask how, and when they can't find that answer they fill in the gaps. When he hit the scene as a young teenager, sporting pirate pants, sleeveless shirts, the bronzed striking Spaniard with bulging biceps.. he attracted a lot of female followers who were not necessarily tennis fans. Sadly those of us that love the game and just happen to like Rafa got tarred with the same brush as the "fan girls".
He is a grown man now and those of us who post on forums do so because of the game and not just because of Rafa though ardent followers we may be.

Haddie-nuff wrote:
One or two like Nadal and admire his game and his achievements but fans NO.

100% sure about that?

What are you saying ??
You are gonna tell me you are male yes?
If so whacko.. dont get many of you to the pound
Im on safe ground for once am I ???? Whew

Well speaking of Facebook, for those who - in common with Haddie-Nuff - "can't stand Federer" there's a Facebook page entitled "I hate Roger Federer" which I see has attracted 3505 "likes" (I imagine there's one somewhere for Rafa and others too, though I haven't bothered to look......)

If the figure sounds a lot ..... it's all of 0.03% of the number of "likes" on Federer's official FB page.

Favouring one athlete or team over another, respective playing styles, tactics, etc etc, is one thing, and totally normal. But I'm always bemused as to exactly how and why people can generate an irrational hatred of someone (whether in the public eye or not) who they don't actually know and who has done them no harm.

Strikes me as rather weird

lags

I would no sooner join Facebook to join I hate Roger Federer than I would to join I love Rafa Nadal.. in fact I think anyone who wants to post their thoughts on Facebook as being weird (plus I dont even read it)

I did not say I hated Roger Federer because I do not hate anyone.
I just dont like him and its not irrational I have my reasons for not liking him but unlike those who take every opportunity to post their feelings about Rafa or any other player I do not need to justify it.

So according to you we cannot like or dislike anyone we have never met. Including actors, singers, etc etc. Isn´t that equally irrational?? Or does it only apply to the great one.???

Lags - completely agree. That is not just a Rafa thing of course. I can think of 1 or 2 others that have an irrational dislike if other players apart from Rafa, and display that regularly.

Haddie-nuff wrote:But the 64,000 dollar question remains Danny is to WHY unfounded things are said about Nadal.. I have just one theory..Seldom IF ever are denegrating things said about Nadal by women.. the vitriol and vindictive comments come from male posters... now why should that be?? I would like to hear your perspective

I think you may have a point. Nadal is cute and maybe that isn't always a good thing in sport. Any insecure male has to be very careful admitting to admiring him. People might get the wrong idea and think that it's more than his forehand that they admire. Much safer to keep a safe distance and then there can be no confusion...

I do see where Haddie is coming from. I also dislike Federer for various reasons but can openly appreciate he is the greatest player of all-time and I won't go out of my way to be openly malicious towards Fed either. Sadly, the same rules don't apply towards those that don't like Nadal or even Murray or Djoko.

What I like about you HE is some of us think it ... you say it

hawkeye wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:But the 64,000 dollar question remains Danny is to WHY unfounded things are said about Nadal.. I have just one theory..Seldom IF ever are denegrating things said about Nadal by women.. the vitriol and vindictive comments come from male posters... now why should that be?? I would like to hear your perspective

I think you may have a point. Nadal is cute and maybe that isn't always a good thing in sport. Any insecure male has to be very careful admitting to admiring him. People might get the wrong idea and think that it's more than his forehand that they admire. Much safer to keep a safe distance and then there can be no confusion...

Nonsense. One of the most popular sportsman not just in the UK but the whole world is David Beckham, and he's one if the biggest sporting pin ups ever!! If not THE biggest ever. If he's associated to it, men buy it.

No way in the world is it associated to Rafa being good looking.

I don't like him because he cheated and continues to cheat (in a number of ways).

This fantasy that a lot of fans (many on this site) create where they're the player's best friend or boy/girlfriend is not something I've ever got into. Seems a bit odd to me, hawkeye.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I do see where Haddie is coming from. I also dislike Federer for various reasons but can openly appreciate he is the greatest player of all-time and I won't go out of my way to be openly malicious towards Fed either. Sadly, the same rules don't apply towards those that don't like Nadal or even Murray or Djoko.

CC Andy will doubtless be "excused boots" for a little while because he has silenced his critics.in the short term..There will be a few jumping on his wagon for a while at least but hold tight

Dj - How does he cheat?

Not saying you're right or wrong, just asking you to back up what you're saying.

And especially "a number of ways" list them please

His association with Fuentes. The trial starts in January. Should be very interesting.

I doubt he'll be back in Abu Dhabi. That's just cynical marketing from the tournament in order to sell tickets for an already essentially meaningless event, they will have paid him to say this. He'll be on the brochures and all over the website, and then he'll pull out at the last second. Tennis events do it all the time.

Ha ha! djlovesyou. Don't worry I bet you find his loopy topspin forehand ugly and always switch over and watch something else when he's playing as he takes so long between points. Yawn...

doubt he'll be back in Abu Dhabi. That's just cynical marketing from the tournament in order to sell tickets for an already essentially meaningless event, they will have paid him to say this. He'll be on the brochures and all over the website, and then he'll pull out at the last second. Tennis events do it all the time..
djlovesyou

So how is this cheating by Nadal this is to do with the organisers...Nadal has not yet announced hewill be playing in Abu Dhabi in fact Toni has said he my not yet play at all this year.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:I do see where Haddie is coming from. I also dislike Federer for various reasons but can openly appreciate he is the greatest player of all-time and I won't go out of my way to be openly malicious towards Fed either. Sadly, the same rules don't apply towards those that don't like Nadal or even Murray or Djoko.

CC Andy will doubtless be "excused boots" for a little while because he has silenced his critics.in the short term..There will be a few jumping on his wagon for a while at least but hold tight

I disagree as if you look around there are still people sticking the boot in and no doubt there always will be. Like I said prior to his first slam win - him winning a slam wasn't going to change anything in terms of respect/credit/kudos that he'd get from a certain section of posters. Once a hater always a hater yet those will try to paint their disdain as objective or fair in some way. Deluded.

The other side of the coin is that if you criticise Rafa you get labelled as a Fed fan (because only Fed fans criticise Rafa).

I have been heavily critical of the time Rafa takes between points - I consider it cheating, as he does it deliberately to gain an advantage imho. But by saying that, some Rafa fans have, in the past, labelled me as a Fed fan to justify their argument that its only Feds fans that criticse Rafa. But in my case it's not true. Nor do I hate Rafa overall.

That wasn't the cheating bit. I was just making sure I stayed on topic, because I know how emotional Nadal's supporters get when certain things are mentioned.

This injury is interesting, it reminds me of Serena's last year. It'll probably be a few more months after the new year too, depending on how long he was told he had to sit out.

Whether I turn off or not is irrelevant really. Is turning off because I find certain matches dull worse than carrying on watching because I fancy the person playing?

CaladonianCraig

You are funny. No one is "sticking the boot in" Murray. The talk is about Nadal (as usual) and everyone is "sticking the boot in" as far as Nadal is concerned... or not as the case may be.

I don't hate Rafa. As a Murray fan I find myself dislking him on court but off court he seems a nice chap. I appreciate his game though; he's a physical specimen and a half, and that forehand is a thing of beauty in it's own right. He needs to buy bigger underwear though.

I greatly dislike Uncle Toni for many reasons which I may/may not have mentioned.

I dont agree and dont label all Nadal fans the same either JM .. I have always agreed that Rafa takes too much time between points.. but then so does Novak and Delpo if we are being fairly critical. Rafa is far better than he was but didn´t Novak get a time violation warning at the USO- There are various ways of time wasting JM and it isn´t necessarily between points... calling for Hawkeye when the call is quite obviously good... changing rackets at critical times in the match and various other methods that SOME players use. And will continue to use unless the only person... i.e. the umpire.. does something about it.

I fail to understand how time violation can be classed as cheating when it is not something that the Umpire is not aware of .... cheating is something underhand and not seen or heard by the officials or the opposing player.
It is within their capability to do something about it.

No not everyone is sticking the boot in on Rafa. Certainly not me. I have always wished Rafa well and wished him a speedy recovery. I respect him and what he has achieved in the sport it is a pity others don't feel the same about 'other' tennis players eh HE.

Haddie-nuff wrote:I dont agree and dont label all Nadal fans the same either JM.. .

I see your point - I have edited my post to say 'some rafa fans'. There are always the 'good' and 'bad' fans of all the top players. It was probably back on the original 606 that I had issues with some, or the early days here.

dj loves you.

This injury is interesting, it reminds me of Serena's last year. It'll probably be a few more months after the new year too, depending on how long he was told he had to sit out.

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This is basically what this thread has tried to highlight.. the innuendos and unsubstantiated remarks by those who put the boot in. JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

. Serena Williams was seriously ill after having a foot operation she developed a blood clot.

I wont go into Nadals problems I cant be bothered to discuss it you are not worth the effort.

JuliusHMarx wrote:The other side of the coin is that if you criticise Rafa you get labelled as a Fed fan (because only Fed fans criticise Rafa).

I have been heavily critical of the time Rafa takes between points - I consider it cheating, as he does it deliberately to gain an advantage imho. But by saying that, Rafa fans have, in the past, labelled me as a Fed fan to justify their argument that its only Feds fans that criticse Rafa. But in my case it's not true. Nor do I hate Rafa overall.

I am a Fed fan but as far as I'm concerned Nadal can take as long as he wants between points. Especially when he plays Federer and especially when he's made Federer hit 10 shoulder high backhands in a row. Even Federer needs to get his breath back...

Also concerning time taken between points I believe the organizers of the exhibition in Abu Dhabi are at this very moment in negotiation with Nadal offering to let him take as long as he wants between points. They have even said he can re-arrange his water bottles between 1st and 2nd serve as long as he signs the bit of paper that will ensure he returns to play...

CaledonianCraig wrote:No not everyone is sticking the boot in on Rafa. Certainly not me. I have always wished Rafa well and wished him a speedy recovery. I respect him and what he has achiewved in the sport it is a pity others din't feel the same about 'other' tennis players eh HE.

Same for me Craig. I'm utterly amazed to hear about HE talking negatively about people criticising Rafa. It's astonishing when you think of her Murray agenda.

For me, I like Rafa. And I like watching him. Apart from the time taken between points, I can't think of anything that even slightly annoys me about him.

Haddie-nuff wrote:dj loves you.

This injury is interesting, it reminds me of Serena's last year. It'll probably be a few more months after the new year too, depending on how long he was told he had to sit out.

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This is basically what this thread has tried to highlight.. the innuendos and unsubstantiated remarks by those who put the boot in. JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

Be careful dj loves you. I have been called daft for making unfounded speculations that are not nearly as wild as that...

hawkeye wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:dj loves you.

This injury is interesting, it reminds me of Serena's last year. It'll probably be a few more months after the new year too, depending on how long he was told he had to sit out.

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This is basically what this thread has tried to highlight.. the innuendos and unsubstantiated remarks by those who put the boot in. JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

Be careful dj loves you. I have been called daft for making unfounded speculations that are not nearly as wild as that...

No, you were called daft for complaining about them AND making them against other players in the same post.

Your memory is as good as your judgement!