So...Nadal finally makes it clear when he's returning

First topic message reminder :

He'll return from knee injury at the Abu Dhabi exhibition tournament, Dec. 27-29.
Guess makes sense, low key event but with strong opposition (e.g. Murray).
Looks like AO2013 is on then too.

http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/10/nadal-targets-return-december-exhibition/39631/

Haddie-nuff wrote:JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

I don't know - anyone can if they want to. There's nothing to stop them.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

I don't know - anyone can if they want to. There's nothing to stop them.

If anyone dared aim an insinuation at Federer he would easily dodge it. Just like that volley that Murray aimed at Federer's head (or heaven forbid hair) during the Wimbledon final. Federer is so quick and sharp nothing can hurt him. He will always come away smelling of roses. It probably helps that he's only cute in a manly way too. (sorry Haddie-nuff I know I should try and learn to just think things and not say them...)

hawkeye wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

I don't know - anyone can if they want to. There's nothing to stop them.

If anyone dared aim an insinuation at Federer he would easily dodge it. Just like that volley that Murray aimed at Federer's head (or heaven forbid hair) during the Wimbledon final. Federer is so quick and sharp nothing can hurt him. He will always come away smelling of roses. It probably helps that he's only cute in a manly way too. (sorry Haddie-nuff I know I should try and learn to just think things and not say them...)

Why do you keep on talking about Murray every 2 seconds.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

I don't know - anyone can if they want to. There's nothing to stop them.

http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/10/federer-allegedly-targeted-death-threat/39661/#.UG3vhxi0bgo

We can't put all 'dislikes' into one category, when it comes to tennis.
One is when you dislike a player, for whatever reason, and that's it. You're not a fan (i.e. Haddie Nuff's attitude towards Federer).

Then you get people who dislike a player so much that they become obsessed with it, constantly talking about him all the time. This of course can take two forms: A more moderate 'Passive Aggressive' (HE towards Murray), and less moderate/ much more serious 'Vicious Aggressive' (ROTLA against Nadal, people who create abusive Facebook groups etc.).

Then you get the total psychos who are actually mental, they really hate the player. (http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/10/federer-allegedly-targeted-death-threat/39661/#.UG3vhxi0bgo)

hawkeye wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:JM WOULD ANYONE... dare to make that insinuation about Federer ???????

I don't know - anyone can if they want to. There's nothing to stop them.

If anyone dared aim an insinuation at Federer he would easily dodge it. Just like that volley that Murray aimed at Federer's head (or heaven forbid hair) during the Wimbledon final. Federer is so quick and sharp nothing can hurt him. He will always come away smelling of roses. It probably helps that he's only cute in a manly way too. (sorry Haddie-nuff I know I should try and learn to just think things and not say them...)

Dont apologise to me Hawkeye Its great that you feel you can speak your mind. I again am not a Murray FAN
thoughI dont mind Andy now .. he is so much better since he has had Lendl as a coach. And I do like his tennis.
He is ok and getting OKAYER

It Must Be Love

It's difficult NOT to talk about Murray. Even on this thread were at the very most he is just a side line certain posters have tried to make him the main attraction. I just try to provide balance. Not everyone is a Murray fan you know. That's why my views stick out. The players I have most interest in are by far Nadal and Federer. They are the ones I like to watch and talk about. I will remember ANY player who aims a shot at Federer's head (or heaven forbid hair!) Seriously what is it about Murray fans constantly asking non fans to give him praise?

Haddie-nuff

I read a recent quote by Nadal where he said he didn't think Lendl had any impact on Murray or his game. He also said Murray's game hadn't changed.

Well dare I argue with "the man" I really cant say I agree with him on this occasion.

Having lived through the Lendl era and well aware of the man behind the racket I said at the time I knew Andy was employing him as a coach that he would stand no nonsense from him and the on court tantrums would have to stop (which for one thing I believe they have).-Lendl is a no-nonsense bloke who was by far one of the most unpopular "men" on tour.. not talking about his tennis.. but he was a hard nut to crack and had few friends in the locker room. He and Agassi were at one anothers throats. He was another one who had very tough training as a boy by his mother. So Rafa Im not sure I agree with your observations... we will wait and see .. see how successful (or not as the case may be) Andy is this year... I have hopes for him. His on court behaviour used to grate on me but since Lendl the boy has grown into a man A much more controlled Andy who keeps his temper and emotions in check on court in turn will reflect on his tennis..certain of it.

Actually Haddie-Nuff it sounds like you agree with what Nadal actually said (as do I). He said that Murrays game hadn't changed practically at all, it was his mentality that had changed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/tennis/19712224

Back to the OP, can honestly say I don't dislike any players. They all have different styles (which keeps it interesting) but have all worked extremely hard and sacrificed a lot to get where they are. I salute them all

I obviously have preferences but don't we all?

carrieg4 wrote:Actually Haddie-Nuff it sounds like you agree with what Nadal actually said (as do I). He said that Murrays game hadn't changed practically at all, it was his mentality that had changed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/tennis/19712224

Back to the OP, can honestly say I don't dislike any players. They all have different styles (which keeps it interesting) but have all worked extremely hard and sacrificed a lot to get where they are. I salute them all

I obviously have preferences but don't we all?

I absolutely agree.. many I dislike, many Im ambivalent about, some I really like and others that are great.
But then that takes care of all the people we know and are acquainted with in every day life doesnt it.
Every player on tour to me deserves their place without having a player ranked 100 you wouldn´t have one at 99.
The modern game takes so much dedication, training and committment to be successful.. I take my hat off to them all.
Their diverse games and personalities make the sport what it is .. Viva la difference

All these guys from 200 upwards are one hell of a player if you saw them in your local indoor tennis centre. But it's amazing what separates the top guys...just that bit more resilience, mental strength, determination...almost afraid to lose. It's goes well beyond tennis at that level. These guys aren't around long in the scheme of things...best enjoy them all when they're around. Especially Nadal...it'll be a much quieter landscape when he's hung up his racquet finally. Likewise Federer.

BUT...I want more contrast in play, conditions, etc...please please...

Wow this thread.

I think what this is has demonstrated that cynical perceptions of players actually not only bring the strong and ompetitive thinking, but also a lack of enjoyment of the game if by all we could be concerned by is who is 'cheating' and who isn't.

There needs to be an acceptance that these players are honest hard working players. Yes they might hold strong views and yes they might even use 'advanced' techniques to keep and stay fitter ahead of the rest of the field. Till the day comes in which something comes out in a concrete evidence form, I will go by what I see. Seeing is believing type of thing.

Yes the holier than thou annoys me, yes the constant butt picking annoys me, yes the constant ball bouncing on big points annoys me, yes the negative shouting annoys me. For just those 1 things which annoy, about 4-5 things they do I enjoy watching.

When we give opinion on player conduct and behaviour, at least allow for concessions because you will run into conflict if you are trying to allow special dispensation for your favourite player/s.

legendkillarV2 wrote:
When we give opinion on player conduct and behaviour, at least allow for concessions because you will run into conflict if you are trying to allow special dispensation for your favourite player/s.

I think it is a mistake to think we 'understand' the modus operandi of a player because we've read the book/listened to all the press conferences etc, etc.

Of course it is natural to have preferences but it kills the interest and debate on forums imvho as much when posts become aggressively pro a player's personality as when they are aggressively anti.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I do see where Haddie is coming from. I also dislike Federer for various reasons but can openly appreciate he is the greatest player of all-time and I won't go out of my way to be openly malicious towards Fed either. Sadly, the same rules don't apply towards those that don't like Nadal or even Murray or Djoko.

Exactly Craig. The fed fans because of their numbers online, and again I want to reiterate because some of the best posters on this site are fed fans, SOME fed fans feel like they can go on the offensive against anyone else in the big 4 they don't like because they are in the majority and if the other party says anything then as a pack and a gang the otheris raid haters will attack. I don't dislike Roger, I think overrall a very positive figure. But I will say that I don't buy the party line on him being this saint or angel of a character. There is a lot of hype around fed and overselling that is off putting, and then add to that some of his fans come online and act like they are the ones who won 17 slam titles it adds to the annoyance factor even more.

I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"; lets be honest and call a spade a spade; no other big 4 players' fan would ever even dream of thinking something likmrsn e that let alone writting and posting it over and over again. I mean could you imagine the howls of outrage ef I came on here and said "Djokovic fans are true tennis fans and understand the game" of course with the innuendo that other player's fans are tennis illiterates or fan girls. I mean the way some of these fed fans compliment each other you would think that they are the ones with all the trophies.

Any links to 606 posters doing this stuff you've put in quotes socal, or is it a strawman?

legendkillarV2 wrote:Wow this thread.

I think what this is has demonstrated that cynical perceptions of players actually not only bring the strong and ompetitive thinking, but also a lack of enjoyment of the game if by all we could be concerned by is who is 'cheating' and who isn't.

There needs to be an acceptance that these players are honest hard working players. Yes they might hold strong views and yes they might even use 'advanced' techniques to keep and stay fitter ahead of the rest of the field. Till the day comes in which something comes out in a concrete evidence form, I will go by what I see. Seeing is believing type of thing.

Yes the holier than thou annoys me, yes the constant butt picking annoys me, yes the constant ball bouncing on big points annoys me, yes the negative shouting annoys me. For just those 1 things which annoy, about 4-5 things they do I enjoy watching.

When we give opinion on player conduct and behaviour, at least allow for concessions because you will run into conflict if you are trying to allow special dispensation for your favourite player/s.

Very good and well reasoned post LK. I actually think that this thread has been good in airing out a little bit of where people are coming from and what sets things in motion towards negativity and conflict.

I think we should all feel free to criticize who we like. I don't care if people criticize my posts or Novak, but what I do care about is fairness, honesty in debate. I don't want there to be an air of censorship or walking on egg shells either. But when you can tell from a pattern that someone is inteterested in only attacking certain players and/or certain posters in a mean spirited and in a dishonest manner; well that crosses the line with me and with most posters in my mind.

bogbrush wrote:Any links to 606 posters doing this stuff you've put in quotes socal, or is it a strawman?

Honestly BB don't want to waste more of each others time engaging you. From the outset anything I argue you won't accept anyway, therefore why waste our time and get into it?

It'd show a great lead if you could show how thorough and honest your previous post was with some evidence. After all, you DO want to 'get into it', by posting broad accusations like that.

One of the issues I have with your posts is that you alternately switch between doing what you complain about, then complaining about it, then switching back again.

bogbrush wrote:It'd show a great lead if you could show how thorough and honest your previous post was with some evidence. After all, you DO want to 'get into it', by posting broad accusations like that.

How is this why don't you assume that you are right and you thrashed me again and we end our conversation here with me conceding whatever it is you feel you want me to concede.

socal1976 wrote:

bogbrush wrote:It'd show a great lead if you could show how thorough and honest your previous post was with some evidence. After all, you DO want to 'get into it', by posting broad accusations like that.

How is this why don't you assume that you are right and you thrashed me again and we end our conversation here with me conceding whatever it is you feel you want me to concede.

I'm not interested in 'winning', that's impossible on a forum. I'd rather just try to avoid you doing this confusing thing where you make unsubstantiated complaints about others doing likewise.

Only an idiot wastes his time trying to convince someone whose mind is made up beforehand, I don't have spare time to waste on that endeavor.

socal1976 wrote:Only an idiot wastes his time trying to convince someone whose mind is made up beforehand, I don't have spare time to waste on that endeavor.

You don't need to convince at all, just be able to back up your quotes.

Then again we know why you won't, because you're objecting to behaviour that doesn't exist. Classic strawman argument.

socal1976 wrote:I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"...

I don't know how many times, but we've definitely had that in the past here - from people who are no longer on the board. I remember it because it annoyed me. However, it's in the past, so I hope it stays there.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"...

I don't know how many times, but we've definitely had that in the past here - from people who are no longer on the board. I remember it because it annoyed me. However, it's in the past, so I hope it stays there.

And the jury says that i was telling the truth when I wrote that I read those statements on this website. That is why no one but you BB is disputing it and why I won't go hunting through old threads for you. You just aren't a very credible plaintiff worth that is worth my efforts, consider your complaint lodged with the world at large.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"...

I don't know how many times, but we've definitely had that in the past here - from people who are no longer on the board. I remember it because it annoyed me. However, it's in the past, so I hope it stays there.

I was just about to bring out the quote to back up Socal, but nevermind now.
Bogbrush if you really want, I can inbox you the quote, but I suspect you'll take Julius's word for it.

This in mind, Socal we have to recognise that there are others too who made ridiculous comments. Firstly noleisthebest, another Djokovic fan, has said 'Nadal is a talentless moonballer' and anyone who disagrees 'doesn't know anything about tennis.' So clearly it's not just Federer fans.
Secondly I remember there were some Sampras fans who pretended to be Nadal fans, to down Federer. It was funny in 2011 when they switched to Djokovic fans, because he was the dominant force (and beating Federer). They were quite ridiculous imo.

It Must Be Love wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"...

I don't know how many times, but we've definitely had that in the past here - from people who are no longer on the board. I remember it because it annoyed me. However, it's in the past, so I hope it stays there.

I was just about to bring out the quote to back up Socal, but nevermind now.
Bogbrush if you really want, I can inbox you the quote, but I suspect you'll take Julius's word for it.

This in mind, Socal we have to recognise that there are others too who made ridiculous comments. Firstly noleisthebest, another Djokovic fan, has said 'Nadal is a talentless moonballer' and anyone who disagrees 'doesn't know anything about tennis.' So clearly it's not just Federer fans.
Secondly I remember there were some Sampras fans who pretended to be Nadal fans, to down Federer. It was funny in 2011 when they switched to Djokovic fans, because he was the dominant force (and beating Federer). They were quite ridiculous imo.

And juror number 2 weighs in for those statements having been made BB. See maybe you are too biased against me to even realize when I am speaking the truth? Either way you made your point, it was wrong as usual, goodbye. Yes IMBL, I remember 2011 how every fed fan was a mini djoko fan, when Djoko started beating fed as well and threatening major records all of sudden he became the bad guy again, very petty and ridiculous. If you remember I wasn't fooled by the fed/djoko fans of early 2011.

As for the Nitb comments I am not standing up for all Djoko fans and all their comments or for Paul or Jersey either although their presence has really been sporadic at best.

I don't mind an individual being called for what they say, what I object to is the painting of unspecified members of particular group with the actions of one or few. It's a lazy trick to spray bile around, then subsequently back off claiming it was a specific point about an individual.

Far more honest to name names.

socal1976 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"...

I don't know how many times, but we've definitely had that in the past here - from people who are no longer on the board. I remember it because it annoyed me. However, it's in the past, so I hope it stays there.

I was just about to bring out the quote to back up Socal, but nevermind now.
Bogbrush if you really want, I can inbox you the quote, but I suspect you'll take Julius's word for it.

This in mind, Socal we have to recognise that there are others too who made ridiculous comments. Firstly noleisthebest, another Djokovic fan, has said 'Nadal is a talentless moonballer' and anyone who disagrees 'doesn't know anything about tennis.' So clearly it's not just Federer fans.
Secondly I remember there were some Sampras fans who pretended to be Nadal fans, to down Federer. It was funny in 2011 when they switched to Djokovic fans, because he was the dominant force (and beating Federer). They were quite ridiculous imo.

And juror number 2 ways in for those statements having been made BB. See maybe you are too biased against me to even realize when I am speaking the truth? Either way you made your point, it was wrong as usual, goodbye.

What about my points Socal??

bogbrush wrote:I don't mind an individual being called for what they say, what I object to is the painting of unspecified members of particular group with the actions of one or few.

I agree, one must be careful.
As my good friend used to say:
'All generalisations are stupid.'

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I don't mind an individual being called for what they say, what I object to is the painting of unspecified members of particular group with the actions of one or few.

I agree, one must be careful.
As my good friend used to say:
'All generalisations are stupid.'

Yeah, that's what all my friends say.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I don't mind an individual being called for what they say, what I object to is the painting of unspecified members of particular group with the actions of one or few.

I agree, one must be careful.
As my good friend used to say:
'All generalisations are stupid.'

Yeah, that's what all my friends say.

Tennis fans certainly are very tribal. Both in supporting their player and deriding their rivals. And supporting their rivals rivals, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

I can't be bothered with it personally. It's not the players who are being blinkered and short sighted, they are pretty much always very complimentary of each other. Certainly the big 4 anyway.

Debate is great. Rivalries are great, but I personally can't be bothered with most of the wind ups. The ones which are funny I welcome. I like them in fact. I can't remember who said it but someone dubbed Nole and Rafa (or was it Andy and Nole, I can't remember) 'the rallying macaques'.... Which really tickled me.

It's the passive aggressive and obsessive stuff that I think is pathetic. Seriously, get a life!!! Have you any idea how ridiculous you sound?!

And as for the 'talentless moonballer' claims.... For me, anyone that thinks Rafa is talentless is not - in my opinion - a particularly good judge of a tennis player.

Danny_1982 wrote:Tennis fans certainly are very tribal. Both in supporting their player and deriding their rivals. And supporting their rivals rivals, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

I can't be bothered with it personally. It's not the players who are being blinkered and short sighted, they are pretty much always very complimentary of each other. Certainly the big 4 anyway.

Debate is great. Rivalries are great, but I personally can't be bothered with most of the wind ups. The ones which are funny I welcome. I like them in fact. I can't remember who said it but someone dubbed Nole and Rafa (or was it Andy and Nole, I can't remember) 'the rallying macaques'.... Which really tickled me.

It's the passive aggressive and obsessive stuff that I think is pathetic. Seriously, get a life!!! Have you any idea how ridiculous you sound?!

And as for the 'talentless moonballer' claims.... For me, anyone that thinks Rafa is talentless is not - in my opinion - a particularly good judge of a tennis player.

It Must Be Love wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I mean how many times have we heard comments like "Fed fans are true tennis fans" or "fed fans understand the game"...

I don't know how many times, but we've definitely had that in the past here - from people who are no longer on the board. I remember it because it annoyed me. However, it's in the past, so I hope it stays there.

I was just about to bring out the quote to back up Socal, but nevermind now.
Bogbrush if you really want, I can inbox you the quote, but I suspect you'll take Julius's word for it.

This in mind, Socal we have to recognise that there are others too who made ridiculous comments. Firstly noleisthebest, another Djokovic fan, has said 'Nadal is a talentless moonballer' and anyone who disagrees 'doesn't know anything about tennis.' So clearly it's not just Federer fans.
Secondly I remember there were some Sampras fans who pretended to be Nadal fans, to down Federer. It was funny in 2011 when they switched to Djokovic fans, because he was the dominant force (and beating Federer). They were quite ridiculous imo.

And juror number 2 ways in for those statements having been made BB. See maybe you are too biased against me to even realize when I am speaking the truth? Either way you made your point, it was wrong as usual, goodbye.

What about my points Socal??

I editted my response to you IMBL check my last post again I changed it. Your points as usual are spot on and not much to argue against. I often would question Nitb on her belief that Nadal was the death of tennis. She was very emotional on the point and when I found that she could not be convinced I moved on from discussing that with her. I have PM'd Jersey on more than one occassion to tell him nicely to represent Djoko fans better, I never mentioned it before because it was never relevant and I meant to try to privately reason with him and obviously it didn't work and he went away anyway.

Danny_1982 wrote:Tennis fans certainly are very tribal. Both in supporting their player and deriding their rivals. And supporting their rivals rivals, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

I can't be bothered with it personally. It's not the players who are being blinkered and short sighted, they are pretty much always very complimentary of each other. Certainly the big 4 anyway.

Debate is great. Rivalries are great, but I personally can't be bothered with most of the wind ups. The ones which are funny I welcome. I like them in fact. I can't remember who said it but someone dubbed Nole and Rafa (or was it Andy and Nole, I can't remember) 'the rallying macaques'.... Which really tickled me.

It's the passive aggressive and obsessive stuff that I think is pathetic. Seriously, get a life!!! Have you any idea how ridiculous you sound?!

And as for the 'talentless moonballer' claims.... For me, anyone that thinks Rafa is talentless is not - in my opinion - a particularly good judge of a tennis player.

Great post DAnny, but according to those who make the talentless moonballer argument they know it all about tennis. Another famous one is that murray has no bottle or that Djokovic is a weaponless grinder. If you really believe any of these statements you probably are a wind up merchant.

Danny_1982 wrote:

And as for the 'talentless moonballer' claims.... For me, anyone that thinks Rafa is talentless is not - in my opinion - a particularly good judge of a tennis player.

Thats what Ive been telling him

Haddie-Nuff

I must be much more tolerant of people, because I really don't recall people truly saying Murray has no bottle. I doubt even Hawkeye would hold such a view of him. I can imagine the way he used to get ratty with himself on court being called mental fragility - and it was, he more or less says so himself when he talks about how he's fixed it - but 'bottler'?

The only insult that's had endless run out is the 'talentless moonballer' one, but even that dates back to the old 606 and the long term war between the Sampras fans with their stuff on Federer who took to Rafa as their flag of convenience, and Fed fans. That immense dialogue has to be seen as the parallel World from normal tennis conversation that it was.

I think there's a lot of oscillation between people taking extreme views and climbing to the centre ground.

bogbrush wrote:

The only insult that's had endless run out is the 'talentless moonballer' one, but even that dates back to the old 606 and the long term war between the Sampras fans with their stuff on Federer who took to Rafa as their flag of convenience, and Fed fans. That immense dialogue has to be seen as the parallel World from normal tennis conversation that it was.

Yep, I think that's very accurate.
Except now the Sampras fans have disappeared, but some people still continue the 'talentless' line.

TBH saying any player, especially anyone in the top 4 is talentless is ridiculous. Says a lot more about the poster than the player.

Yep I told him that as well

Haddie-nuff wrote:Yep I told him that as well

Who's 'him'?

It Must Be Love wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Yep I told him that as well

Who's 'him'?

I was wondering that too.

Well if you dont know him by now
You are never never gonna know him

Stick around he is here quite often

Is it me?

Nahhhh IMBL I dont have any problems with you do I ???

awful lotta honkies in here......

Haddie-nuff wrote:Nahhhh IMBL I dont have any problems with you do I ???

No

Does 'he' post here?

Yes you know him.. he is probably reading this and knows who he is.
But his stupid comments dont bother me anymore...
Anyways ENOUGH !!!

Lets hope the "talentless moonballer" will soon be back. Ive missed him.