My Welsh Team for the Argentina game if I was the coach...

First topic message reminder :

15: Halfpenny
14: Cuthbert
13: J Davies
12: Beck
11: North
10: Biggar
9: Gareth Davies
8: Faletau
7: Tipuric
6: Warburton
5: I Evans
4: AW Jones
3: Jarvis
2: Rees
1: Paul James

Howley's team is already picked, the only question Mark is at tight head.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Well you did, for starters.

When? I said I'd have Tupric in - my preferred backrow would be Jones, Tupric, Toby - but as Jones is out I said I reckon Howley would use this as an exuse to play both Tupric and Warbs together - which I believe would be a mistake (1. Warbs is out of form, not a massive problem but 2. he's nowhere near the best 6 we have because he's a 7, and Tupric is in better form at 7 than him).

Ruby said 'Toby, Ryan and Warbs for me' and you said you agreed.

Ahh sorry - I must have mis-read I thought he said Toby, Ryan, Tupric

My bad!

Even if Jones is out I still cant see the logic in playing Warburton out of position if he isn't in good enough form to be considered inhis prefered position.

If Jones is out then MY back row would be

Tipuric (but will be Warburton)
Faletau
Shingler

That might not be the most physical of backrows, but they're all athletes and footballers. They could be brilliant as a unit.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Even if Jones is out I still cant see the logic in playing Warburton out of position if he isn't in good enough form to be considered inhis prefered position.

If Jones is out then MY back row would be

Tipuric (but will be Warburton)
Faletau
Shingler

+1

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That might not be the most physical of backrows, but they're all athletes and footballers. They could be brilliant as a unit.

LP,

With injuries to Lydiate and now Jones (not ruled out yet I know) whatever combo we put out won't be the most physical or experienced I guess. Well I suppose if Warburton and Faletau start then there fair bit of experience there now.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That might not be the most physical of backrows, but they're all athletes and footballers. They could be brilliant as a unit.

LP,

With injuries to Lydiate and now Jones (not ruled out yet I know) whatever combo we put out won't be the most physical or experienced I guess.

Unless we select Andy Powell!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That might not be the most physical of backrows, but they're all athletes and footballers. They could be brilliant as a unit.

LP,

With injuries to Lydiate and now Jones (not ruled out yet I know) whatever combo we put out won't be the most physical or experienced I guess.

Unless we select Andy Powell!

Well, and heres the frightening thing for me but having read Meastegs posts I know who he thinks is the form No8 in Wales this season BUT I am still hoping that I never see JT in a Welsh shirt again.

OMG not Powell and JT! I thought those nightmare days were long past!

He's being doing ok for Sale

Yeah but we've got so many better options than both

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That might not be the most physical of backrows, but they're all athletes and footballers. They could be brilliant as a unit.

LP,

With injuries to Lydiate and now Jones (not ruled out yet I know) whatever combo we put out won't be the most physical or experienced I guess.

Unless we select Andy Powell!

Well, and heres the frightening thing for me but having read Meastegs posts I know who he thinks is the form No8 in Wales this season BUT I am still hoping that I never see JT in a Welsh shirt again.

I know I hate to say it, because I think Powell is an absolute donkey but he has been a massive player for sale in the English Premiership.

I think that the lads will get it all together under the welsh management, just as they did for the RWC.

I expect to see, 7 Warburton, 6 Shingler and 8 Toby. Tipuric on the bench, Ryan o be back in time for the last two games.

Is that the backrow u would pick maes?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Is that the backrow u would pick maes?

I think so if Ryan is out, it sounds serious so I'm guessing he's out, otherwise I would have him at six.

So guessing he is I would say Shingler 6, Warburton 7, Toby 8.

I know Toby and Warbs haven't been on top form but I think as soon as they get in that Wales camp they'll turn it on.

They have had some great performances for their regions this season, the Dragons vs Blues game, battle of the back rows was immense.

Well I'm hoping anyway. They were so brilliant at the RWC, if they can get back to that we'll be in great shape. If not, we have lots of other options. Thats why I'd run them out first.

With the squad picked and Jones injured who is the other altrernative at No8 besides Faletau?

McCusker I guess

Or warbs to 8 - i heard that bandied around a bit last year

He played eight at youth level. Never seen him there at senior or regional, doesnt mean he can't step up to it.

That's not the point, surely? He hasn't been selected as a number eight, just as he hasn't been selected as a blindside.

I suspect Ryan will be declared fit but if he is out, I hate to say it but Powell is likely to be the best of a bad bunch, McCusker is not an 8, JT is too lightweight but, maybe someone like D Welch may be a better option (Welsh qualified) I saw him play against the Dragons and had a great game?

Actually JT has been superb this season. He wouldnt let us down at all.

Not all season Maes. When the Ospreys team was poor, he was very poor. Now the Ospreys are good, he's good. Leave him with the Region as that's the level he is best suited too at the moment, plus the youth need some experience to 'blend with'.

Dont think welch is welsh qualified - think he only qualified on residency but now hes moved that doesnt count

We need to try to match Argentina up front - If they steam roller us there then we're in trouble.

glamorganalun wrote:I suspect Ryan will be declared fit but if he is out, I hate to say it but Powell is likely to be the best of a bad bunch, McCusker is not an 8, JT is too lightweight but, maybe someone like D Welch may be a better option (Welsh qualified) I saw him play against the Dragons and had a great game?

Do you think McGog is a 6 and Shingles could be an 8?

I think Rob is doing a good job at no.8, but not enough to be in Wales contention.

McGog is definately a 6, while I see Shingler as more a 6/7 who can play as a lock.

If your looking at the back row options in the squad at the moment I think it breaks down to roughly

T Faletau - 8 (can cover 6 or 7)
R Jones - 6, 8 or lock
R McCusker - 6 or 8 (can cover 7)
A Shingler - 6, 7 or lock (can cover 8)
J Tipuric - 7 (can cover 6)
J Turnbull - 6 (can cover 7, 8 or lock)
S Warburton- 7 (can cover 6 or 8)

So personally I would not be suprised to see
6 -: Shingler or Warbutron
7 -: Warburton or Tipuric
8 -: Faletau
Bench -: Tipuric or McCusker

I agree SS and I think we're blessed at lock, 6 and 7 - but take away Faletau (and assuming Ryan J is out) and the 8 options aren't great (damn you Morgan for choosing the country of your birth!)

(damn you Morgan for choosing the country of your birth!)

Yeah I'm surprised at that, it's not as if he's a Saffer, New Zealander, Samoan or whatever - maybe he was part of their quota thing?

Yeah he must feel like the odd one out in that squad

Poor bugger though he would have had to battle with Faletau for the Welsh shirt, and now has to battle with Faletau's cousin for the English shirt, bet he never expected that.

Priest n Webslinger

Do you not think that McC is playing better than Toby at 8 this term. I think he had an excellent game last week against us......... certainly he seems to have gained a yard of pace, and is looking as good if not better at ball carrying than Faletau (which is his strength)

I don't FHF, but saying that I haven't seen a huge amount of the Dragons games, but from a Scarlets POV while McGog improved last week, I didn't think he was great and think he's been the weaker of our starting 3 backrows (Shingler, Turnbull, McGog) this season, though he has had to deal with a retreating scrum quite often - but then so has Toby.

Faletau is still playing well, it's just he seems to have butter fingers so far this season. There may be less pressure on him when packing down with the Wales pack.

Morgannwg wrote:Faletau is still playing well, it's just he seems to have butter fingers so far this season. There may be less pressure on him when packing down with the Wales pack.

The problem is has been dropping the ball under no pressure, splilling ball in contact and he also fumbles the ball at the back of the scrum. This is fairly basic for a number 8 but he is showing signs of improvement in fairness. I seem to remember Murphy playing 8 at the Scarlets last year replacing Morgan and he looked better than Morgan, he may be worth a look (before the Scots jump on him) as the other Scarlets boys are all 6's.

glamorganalun wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Faletau is still playing well, it's just he seems to have butter fingers so far this season. There may be less pressure on him when packing down with the Wales pack.

The problem is has been dropping the ball under no pressure, splilling ball in contact and he also fumbles the ball at the back of the scrum. This is fairly basic for a number 8 but he is showing signs of improvement in fairness. I seem to remember Murphy playing 8 at the Scarlets last year replacing Morgan and he looked better than Morgan, he may be worth a look (before the Scots jump on him) as the other Scarlets boys are all 6's.

How can you say a player is performing well....... if he is not doing the basics
Losing ball in contact, and making less yardage
Been hit backwards by players that have no right to be pushing him back
Losing the ball in the breakdown and at the base of the scrum
Tackles have just not been that effective this term

If for example Rhys Priestland is not achieving the basics i.e. missing dead ball placements (conversions and pens) would you not be saying drop him and bring in Biggar / Hook

Just a thought!

FHF

You have to look at a broader picture, Toby might drop a few silly balls, but his average yards gained per game and tackles made averages are better than most number eights in the world.

He is lacking a level of confidence right now, but he is still hitting massive performance numbers. Five games with no tackles missed this season, he is the only player in the world with that stat.

Same in the world cup last year, 74 tackles none missed.

flyhalffactory wrote:Priest n Webslinger

Do you not think that McC is playing better than Toby at 8 this term. I think he had an excellent game last week against us......... certainly he seems to have gained a yard of pace, and is looking as good if not better at ball carrying than Faletau (which is his strength)

I have had to rethink my opinion of the Scarlets all blindside backrow this weekend, as the ballenced backrow of a dedicated blindside, openside and number 8, was dire. I think Rob is a good backrow player, and Toby has not been up to much with the Dragons, but that said Rob has been playing as part of a team taht seem to be improving upon last season, where as Toby is part of a team that is stagnating. It all depend on who turns up in the international training IMO. But I would not be suprised to see McGog on the bench as he is pretty versitile.

Toby is a tricky argument, he hasnt made any exceptional breaks, as we know he can, he has dropped the ball far too often, particularly from kick offs. But he has turned over some valuable ball and tackle rate is still one of the best there is in the world. His work rate is high too.

Watching Dragons you could see how much they missed him and Lydiate.

as I said before I think in the WRU environment we will see these players who are, in many of our opinions, under performing at regional so far this season.

It is time for them to show their colours. I believe they will do it at International season, which may help turn around their regions form after the AI's too.

Maes,

I was having a similar discussion on Saturday night, if the likes of Warburton, Faletau, Roberts and Priestland etc have sotrming games in the AIs then fingers surely need to be pointed at rhe Regional coaches.

If Gats (even Howley) and Co can bets out of them then whats going wrong outside the Welsh squad environment.

Bedford:

I would agree with you if you stated the Dragons and Blues coaches. The Scarlets and Ospreys are showing they have depth in their squads and have a pattern of play, the other two teams are all over the place hence their poor defence.

The Scarlets would improve if they did not have three 6's in the back row and put Murphy at 8.

I agree Alun.

Blues though showed huge improvements against Munster over Leinster. Could well be a change of players on the pitch. Copeland was much better than Pretorius.

But Priestland is having a very poor season so far, if he had a storming AI series then is that the Welsh coaches influence or just his ability to lift his performances against better opposition.

bedfordwelsh wrote:But Priestland is having a very poor season so far, if he had a storming AI series then is that the Welsh coaches influence or just his ability to lift his performances against better opposition.

To be honest Priestland is playing well and kicking badly, after having a few sessions with Neil Jenkins at his own request, to work on his kicking he improved.

Lets see what happens after two weeks in the camp.

So the team announcement is two hours away, what are your last minute thoughts...???

Howleys team.

Gethin
Rees
James
AWJ
Evans
Shingler
Warburton (c)
Faletau
Williams
Biggar
Robinson
Roberts
Davies
North
Williams

Bench

Jarvis
Hibbard
McCusker
Tipuric
Knoyle
Hook
Halfpenny

My team:

Gethin
Hibbard
James
AWJ
Evans
Shingler
Warburton (c)
Faletau
Phillips
Biggar
Cuthbert
Roberts
Davies
North
Halfpenny

Bench

Jarvis
Rees
Scarlet 8/6
Tipuric
Knoyle
Hook
Liam W

maestegmafia wrote:So the team announcement is two hours away, what are your last minute thoughts...???

Howleys team.

Gethin
Rees
James
AWJ
Evans
Shingler
Warburton (c)
Faletau
Williams
Biggar
Robinson
Roberts
Davies
North
Williams

Bench

Jarvis
Hibbard
Shingler
Tipuric
Knoyle
Hook
Halfpenny

Shinglers fast, but not as fast as you make out Maesteg