Wales vs Samoa KO 19:30 Fri 16th Nov - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

WALES V Samoa

Venue: Millennium Stadium Cardiff Date: Friday, 16 November Kick-off: 19:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & online; live on S4C; live commentary on BBC Radio Wales & online; live commentary on Radio Cymru

Seeing as no one has started a thread yet I thought I would.

Enjoy the discussion.

Leigh Halfpenny
Alex Cuthbert
Ashley Beck
Jamie Roberts
George North
Dan Biggar
Mike Phillips
Paul James
Richard Hibbard
Aaron Jarvis
Bradley Davies
Ian Evans
Ryan Jones (Capt)
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau

REPLACEMENTS:
Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Luke Charteris, Sam Warburton, Tavis Knoyle, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams

Samoa:
F Autagavaia (Northland)
P Perez (Eastern Province)
G Pisi (Northampton)
P Williams (Stade Francais)
D Lemi (Worcester, captain)
T Pisi (Suntory)
K Fotuali'i (Ospreys)
S Taulafo (Wasps)
O Avei (Bordeaux-Begles)
C Johnston (Toulouse)
D Leo (Perpignan)
T Paulo (North Harbour)
O Treviranus (London Irish)
M Fa'asavalu (Harlequins)
T Tuifua (Newcastle)

Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont Auvergne), V Afatia (Agen), J Johnston (Harlequins), F Lemalu (Mont de Marsan), T Fomai (Hawke's Bay), J Su'a (Tasman), J Leota (Sale), R Lilomaiava (Laulii).

[tatterd]

I have to say I thought it was very unsporting of the crowd not to clap the Samoan tries, I understand if it was a team above you in the IRB Rankings but a little island in the Pacific deserved a little well done for their quality tries that they scored.

We're rugby fans not football fans.

Well Ireland is a little island in the Atlantic, could Welsh fans clap their tries too? They'd be ever so grateful...

We'd have to score some tries first.....

Also the Welsh would have to stop cheating to beat us. It's unseemly Rodders, practically plebeian. There's only one cheater allowed in international rugby and that's Richie McCaw. Or Bryce Lawrence if you listen to Biltong. No you're quite right Rodders, nobody does.

Ah yes, I remember us cheating to beat you in the RWC 2011 quarter final. Uhm, strike that, no I don't, I remember us outscoring you 3 tries to 1, outplaying you and running out deserved victors

[Gibson]

This is the part that annoys me most, and which other people seem to be missing. By losing and attributing it to not playing very well people are criticising us for not giving the other team credit. But it's the fact that we can't create anything, even from broken play. It's not always because the opposition are stopping us playing. Shipping the ball all the way to the wing without drawing the defender is nothing to do with an awesome defence; it's also to do with not running good lines, not taking the ball to the line, not having the confidence to take people on. This is where it's more to do with us than the opposition. I've seen us make line breaks against the top teams in the world. The fact we can't do it at the moment IMO is to do with us and not the opposition. To make no line breaks in two games, with players of the quality of Jamie Roberts, Leigh Halfpenny, George North and Alex Cuthbert suggests that we're doing something wrong in attack.

Again, without disrespecting the opposition if we can do it against the top 3 (but still lose. Not suggesting otherwise) I think we should be able to do it against slightly weaker (but still very good, for the 'disrespect brigade') opposition. What has happened to George North's ability to run the ball out of his own 22 over half way in broken play? Where's the offloads? Haven't seen 1 yet.

In my opinion the simple reason why we're poor is that our tactics are to bludgeon the opposition but we're physically and mentally weaker. We therefore need to play to our strengths and thus keep it away from contact where possible. Playing other teams at their own game gets us injured, turned over, slow ball, lack of tempo, lack of opportunities and all of this dents out confidence and in all honesty makes us look tactically inept. We are NOT a power-game based team, so we shouldn't try to be one.

Griff,
You talk so much sense bro.

[thebluesmancometh]

Griff

Your on a ledge there, Argentina and Samoa surely didn't allow us to run dummy lines, their superb defence ensured we ran no set plays, and they were so good we didn't have the chance for an offload in contact...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

No offence, Bluesman, but what the hell are you talking about? How can the defence - ANY defence - prevent the attacking side from trying set moves and employing dummy runners?

[thebluesmancometh]

LP

Thats kinda my point, take it it was lost in text!!!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ah, so you were being sarcastic?

[Guest]

This is the part that annoys me most, and which other people seem to be missing. By losing and attributing it to not playing very well people are criticising us for not giving the other team credit. But it's the fact that we can't create anything, even from broken play. It's not always because the opposition are stopping us playing. Shipping the ball all the way to the wing without drawing the defender is nothing to do with an awesome defence; it's also to do with not running good lines, not taking the ball to the line, not having the confidence to take people on. This is where it's more to do with us than the opposition. I've seen us make line breaks against the top teams in the world. The fact we can't do it at the moment IMO is to do with us and not the opposition. To make no line breaks in two games, with players of the quality of Jamie Roberts, Leigh Halfpenny, George North and Alex Cuthbert suggests that we're doing something wrong in attack.

Again, without disrespecting the opposition if we can do it against the top 3 (but still lose. Not suggesting otherwise) I think we should be able to do it against slightly weaker (but still very good, for the 'disrespect brigade') opposition. What has happened to George North's ability to run the ball out of his own 22 over half way in broken play? Where's the offloads? Haven't seen 1 yet.

In my opinion the simple reason why we're poor is that our tactics are to bludgeon the opposition but we're physically and mentally weaker. We therefore need to play to our strengths and thus keep it away from contact where possible. Playing other teams at their own game gets us injured, turned over, slow ball, lack of tempo, lack of opportunities and all of this dents out confidence and in all honesty makes us look tactically inept. We are NOT a power-game based team, so we shouldn't try to be one.

Griff,
You talk so much sense bro.

Cheers Gibson. Tough times in Wales at the moment!

[Thomond]

Rhys Priestland would want a serious dose of cop on, one stage he had a 4 on 2 overlap, with North and possibly Cuthbert outside going up against two forwards. He kicks it that is just dire stuff.


Wales breakdown work was non-existant, Samoa got there incredibly quickly got a solid base, tough to shift guys who as strong as the, oft the ball, should have tried the judo roll technique it might have helped. Wales' gameplan is very simple (as is Ireland's) it's basically pound it up the middle and wait for space to appear, it can be easy to defend if you do it well, up in their faces and chop them down quick, Samoa did that. Ireland stood off in February we all know how that worked out.


Wales seriously need to restructure their attacking gameplan (do they have one?) because frankly it is a joke.

I'm going to get a bollocking for this, I'd say. Take your shots at Ireland if you want we are at a similar stage to be honest.

[Guest]

Yeah, I think I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic or not Bluesman?!

I guess my whole feeling about this is that yes, everyone should give teams credit for the things they did well or stopped us doing. And I've got no problem praising Samoa for winning and playing much better than us. But, it's not just a simple matter of them stopping us. The things in our control is what we didn't do well. Changing the point of attack, example. If a Roberts crash does not work then run him as decoy; try the inside ball; try the offload with a man on the shoulder; try some chips over the top to put the defence on the back foot; kick to the corners and pressure the lineout - we Brought 9'3" Charteris on but didn't think to try to use field position as a tactic.

In the modern game I think you need to be canny. And canny means tying all sorts of tactics, not just kick down field and in field if you're in your own half and then run the ball if you're in their half. That's our 2, and only 2 tactics. The opposition are all pros. They can see what you're going to do if you do it every time. Simply put, let's switch it up a bit and keep the opposition guessing. At worst if we do things like kicking for the corners at least we'll be in their half or 22. Then out big backs might be of use in forcing some turnovers. Smashing the ball upfield and infield isn't effective with big lumbering backs. That's just primary school Physics at it's most obvious/basic!

[Guest]

Rhys Priestland would want a serious dose of cop on, one stage he had a 4 on 2 overlap, with North and possibly Cuthbert outside going up against two forwards. He kicks it that is just dire stuff.


Wales breakdown work was non-existant, Samoa got there incredibly quickly got a solid base, tough to shift guys who as strong as the, oft the ball, should have tried the judo roll technique it might have helped. Wales' gameplan is very simple (as is Ireland's) it's basically pound it up the middle and wait for space to appear, it can be easy to defend if you do it well, up in their faces and chop them down quick, Samoa did that. Ireland stood off in February we all know how that worked out.


Wales seriously need to restructure their attacking gameplan (do they have one?) because frankly it is a joke.

I'm going to get a bollocking for this, I'd say. Take your shots at Ireland if you want we are at a similar stage to be honest.

The Priestland example, was that in our own half? If so, he was asked about that after the game and apparently he kicked as the instruction was to kick everything when in their own half. Awful, I know! Completely taking the instinct out of the players hands. They need to be given more responsibility by the coaches to try things and to use their talent and vision as they see it.

[bedfordwelsh]

What makes it worse is that they were poor kicks as well

[Guest]

When you say poor, Bedford, do you mean the kicks didn't go out of play? Because, that is the tactic too apparently. Keep the ball in field and push up as a defensive line, pressure the turn over in their half. Except, we hardly chase it, our backs are too big and slow to get three quickly and our work at the breakdown is a bit rubbish!

[Guest]

Over it now,Wales were crap just like all summer and last week,
Wales will come good again soon.

But Samoa were awesome, every facet of the game,by a mile the better team on the day, no surprise they beat the Aussies a couple of seasons ago

As a Welsh fan you get used to this, our team are drama queens they love the drama they can't function with out drama,
so if there is no drama they must make some

[bedfordwelsh]

Griff,

Just poor overall as in aimless and topped off with poor chasing, if you look at how JP Petersen chases for the Boks then at least it makes something of the kick.

Our restarts as well were to long and didn't give our boys the chance to challenge

[Morgannwg]

No citings then or does that happen on the monday post matches?

[Guest]

Yeah, but I think that's the tactic to be long. Silly IMO.

Good point about JP Pietersen. He's big but quick too. Our wings are big but only quickish. And there's no urgency to get there. No urgency in anything really.

[bedfordwelsh]

Silly its dam right ludicrous especially when its plain for everyone to see its not working

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Urgency was the thing that made our physical, direct game work in the World Cup and the Six Nations. When other sides match our urgency, or when we lack it, we're exposed as one-trick ponies.

If you don't play any rugby, you shouldn't expect to win a game of rugby.

[Guest]

If you don't play any rugby, you shouldn't expect to win a game of rugby.

England did that all the way to the 2007 world cup final

[Luckless Pedestrian]

And good luck to them, it's more than we did.

[Ozzy3213]

If you don't play any rugby, you shouldn't expect to win a game of rugby.

England did that all the way to the 2007 world cup final

Your obsession with England is touching view, but this the Wales v Samoa thread, do try to stay on topic old bean!

[Sponsored content]