Ireland 6N 33 man squad

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Michael Bent
Rory Best
Tom Court
Sean Cronin
Gordon D'Arcy
Keith Earls
Luke Fitzgerald
Declan Fitzpatrick
Craig Gilroy
Cian Healy
Jamie Heaslip
Iain Henderson
Chris Henry
Paddy Jackson
Rob Kearney
David Kilcoyne
Conor Murray
Mike McCarthy
Kevin McLaughlin
Fergus McFadden
Dave McSharry
Sean O'Brien
Donncha O'Callaghan
Brian O'Driscoll
Ronan O'Gara
Peter O'Mahony
Eoin Reddan
Mike Ross
Donnacha Ryan
Jonathan Sexton
Mike Sherry
Devin Toner
Simon Zebo


Notable inclusions - Jackson and McSharry

Notable Ommissions - Trimble and Marshall

I never wanted to see Both Gilroy and Zebo start, not against Wales anyway.

Wales have big strong direct running wingers, both will need to be on top of thier defensive game against them.

I always said only one should be in with a more physical winger on the other wing (also have them swap wings now and again to keep defensives on thier toes, will it be a fleetfooted or steamroller winger coming at them?)

both are very silimar as the dancing, make things happen wingers, I'd rather have a difference in style, their, since Zebo is the one in best form, I wouldn't have started gilroy.

Talking points for me were Trimble should have been in squad ahead of Gilroy, maybe Fitz
Madigan should have been in Squad instead of Paddy Jackson,

On from that
Henry should be at 7
Madigan on bench instead of RoG
Trimble should be starting ahead of Gilroy

From the squad DK picked
Henry should be at 7
McFadden on wing, Gilroy/Fitz on bench

so to be honest not a lot to argue about, and maybe as people say DK plans to rotate some players where its a tough call, to keep some positions as fresh as possible.

On the scrum front, I'd much prefer the backrow not to do meerkat impressions and shove. I know we'd loose 5 yards on the first breakdown if Wales go from the base, but it's better than giving up 3 points (if in range) or 40 yards down the line.

Kingshu wrote:I never wanted to see Both Gilroy and Zebo start, not against Wales anyway.

Wales have big strong direct running wingers, both will need to be on top of thier defensive game against them.

I always said only one should be in with a more physical winger on the other wing (also have them swap wings now and again to keep defensives on thier toes, will it be a fleetfooted or steamroller winger coming at them?)

both are very silimar as the dancing, make things happen wingers, I'd rather have a difference in style, their, since Zebo is the one in best form, I wouldn't have started gilroy.

Talking points for me were Trimble should have been in squad ahead of Gilroy, maybe Fitz
Madigan should have been in Squad instead of Paddy Jackson,

On from that
Henry should be at 7
Madigan on bench instead of RoG
Trimble should be starting ahead of Gilroy

From the squad DK picked
Henry should be at 7
McFadden on wing, Gilroy/Fitz on bench

so to be honest not a lot to argue about, and maybe as people say DK plans to rotate some players where its a tough call, to keep some positions as fresh as possible.

I hope their is rotation. But I don't expect rotation unless injury enforced.

Glas a du wrote:

That means O'Mahoney must start. So the option is between Henry and SOB. Thats just the way I see it. Unfortunate for Henry who has been outstanding but there is no conspiracy there that I can see.

Conspiracy probably not

Incompetence, that's a different issue.

P.S. Martyn Williams wasn't much taller than Shane, but won his share at the tail.

I'm more concerned about our scrum and breakdown than our lineout options. With Heaslip at the tail, lineout shouldn't be a big worry although O'Mahony does excel there.

Notch wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

That means O'Mahoney must start. So the option is between Henry and SOB. Thats just the way I see it. Unfortunate for Henry who has been outstanding but there is no conspiracy there that I can see.

Conspiracy probably not

Incompetence, that's a different issue.

P.S. Martyn Williams wasn't much taller than Shane, but won his share at the tail.

I'm more concerned about our scrum and breakdown than our lineout options. With Heaslip at the tail, lineout shouldn't be a big worry although O'Mahony does excel there.

This lineout chat is nonsense. Wales are down to their, what, sixth and seventh lock choice. They will not be kicking much to touch for lineouts. We don't need an extra man at the lineout to compete. We just need two jumpers to perform adequately there. Kidney has conceded the breakdown to Wales. Just as he has on the previous three occasions. POM is no Ferris and that selection didn't work either. This is a poor selection.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Notch wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

That means O'Mahoney must start. So the option is between Henry and SOB. Thats just the way I see it. Unfortunate for Henry who has been outstanding but there is no conspiracy there that I can see.

Conspiracy probably not

Incompetence, that's a different issue.

P.S. Martyn Williams wasn't much taller than Shane, but won his share at the tail.

I'm more concerned about our scrum and breakdown than our lineout options. With Heaslip at the tail, lineout shouldn't be a big worry although O'Mahony does excel there.

This lineout chat is nonsense. Wales are down to their, what, sixth and seventh lock choice. They will not be kicking much to touch for lineouts. We don't need an extra man at the lineout to compete. We just need two jumpers to perform adequately there. Kidney has conceded the breakdown to Wales. Just as he has on the previous three occasions. POM is no Ferris and that selection didn't work either. This is a poor selection.

EXACTLY!

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
And anyone who thinks there's anyone in the squad stronger than Henry on the deck just hasn't been paying attention, I'm sorry.

Paying attention to what?

To Chris Henry.

Henry may well be the best but SOB and Best are up there too. SOB is the better ball carrier and neither are lineout options therefore O'Mahoney or McLaughlin must start in Ferris absence imo.

Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

Conor Murray gets attacking the fringes like he did against Racing Metro and we keep the Welsh guessing. When the Welsh are convinced that we are going to boot the leather off the ball we run at them with Zebo and Gilroy.

Finally just when they think with 20 minutes to go that all is grand we introduce Chris Henry who hits them at the breakdown and Ronan O'Gara with Sexton moving to 12. Suddenly they haven't a clue what to expect as a fresh Keith Earls comes into the team and they find out that in Cronin and Kilcoyne we have a way to punch through the middle with our front rows.

Without a flyhalf of their own the Welsh are rudderless and lack the direction needed to break us down in the mud and grime.

Ireland win and we all go home happy.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:On the scrum front, I'd much prefer the backrow not to do meerkat impressions and shove. I know we'd loose 5 yards on the first breakdown if Wales go from the base, but it's better than giving up 3 points (if in range) or 40 yards down the line.

I agree, especially with a short blindside too.

With Sexton at 10 as well we do have a strong defensive set off the base. Murray also.

red_stag wrote:Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

Conor Murray gets attacking the fringes like he did against Racing Metro and we keep the Welsh guessing. When the Welsh are convinced that we are going to boot the leather off the ball we run at them with Zebo and Gilroy.

Finally just when they think with 20 minutes to go that all is grand we introduce Chris Henry who hits them at the breakdown and Ronan O'Gara with Sexton moving to 12. Suddenly they haven't a clue what to expect as a fresh Keith Earls comes into the team and they find out that in Cronin and Kilcoyne we have a way to punch through the middle with our front rows.

Without a flyhalf of their own the Welsh are rudderless and lack the direction needed to break us down in the mud and grime.

Ireland win and we all go home happy.

Hmmm (strokes beard), rain is good and all in terms of not letting teams really play and yes the more lineouts the better.

Rain means slow ball handling which means a few things

1) The wingers can drop back further to cover tactical kicking because it takes it longer to get the ball out the line to attacking wingers
2) With the poor handling, rush defences all of a sudden become indestructible.
3) None of our players can get through a Welsh rush defence as we don't have enough guys capable of getting over the gainline (Healy, POM, SOB, McCarthy) against those Monsters.
4) They will start playing direct and again they have more power than we do.
5) It also means lots of scrums....

I would be praying for a dry day or a closed roof. Rain would not help us. By all means kick for the corners but and throw in those impact subs (Kilcoyne, Cronin, Henry) but rain (which really means slow ball and slow handling) will give us much less of a chance of a win

so what are tatics, we know Wales linout is likely to be weak.

This may play into DK's hands, we know he was best with the old tatics and game, with Wales weak lineout it may play into that.


Every chance we get kick downfield, and hope we can steal lineouts and put Wales under pressue, Pens kick to touch. maybe even RoG being on the bench isn't that bad as he still suits this gameplay, and is still excellent at kicking for touch.

So for me I think we will kick for lineouts, hope to steal them and put Wales under pressure in thier own half.

Do you think we have a good chance of destroing thier line out, and winning the game from that?

Also maybe DK is right to select POM, (as I hear he's a better lineout option than Henry), go down the kicking to touch and teating thier lineout, if its a weakness keep targetting it, if we're having no luck with it, go to plan B, bring on Henry, run at them, look for turnovers, take the game to Wales, quick passing a fast wingers.

Thinking on it now maybe DK is right to use PoM to challange lineouts Plan A, and if not working bring on Henry, as Plan B,

red_stag wrote:Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

No wet pitch favours the bigger team with the better scrum and kicking game. We'll be mushed.

We need a closed roof and get Gilroy and Zebo into space.

In as much as the TH is the most important man at scrum time, Leinsters troubles at at 4 and 5 this year have highlighted the importance of a monster packing down behind the tight head side.
What combination are the welsh likely to have in the engine room and is it likely to have as detrimental an effect on their scrum as we are hoping it will in the lineout?

Jaysus there's quite a lot of Irish angst here over what is surely a good team by any country's standards.

red_stag wrote:Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

Conor Murray gets attacking the fringes like he did against Racing Metro and we keep the Welsh guessing. When the Welsh are convinced that we are going to boot the leather off the ball we run at them with Zebo and Gilroy.

Finally just when they think with 20 minutes to go that all is grand we introduce Chris Henry who hits them at the breakdown and Ronan O'Gara with Sexton moving to 12. Suddenly they haven't a clue what to expect as a fresh Keith Earls comes into the team and they find out that in Cronin and Kilcoyne we have a way to punch through the middle with our front rows.

Without a flyhalf of their own the Welsh are rudderless and lack the direction needed to break us down in the mud and grime.

Ireland win and we all go home happy.

Not sure on the rules for the roof but my understanding is that;
- if it is raining it can be closed regardless
- if it isn't raining then there must be agreement between the two coaches.

I'm open to correction though.

George Carlin wrote:Jaysus there's quite a lot of Irish angst here over what is surely a good team by any country's standards.

Most will be very happy with that team. There is just one or two selections people are unhappy with as always.

Submachine wrote:In as much as the TH is the most important man at scrum time, Leinsters troubles at at 4 and 5 this year have highlighted the importance of a monster packing down behind the tight head side.
What combination are the welsh likely to have in the engine room and is it likely to have as detrimental an effect on their scrum as we are hoping it will in the lineout?

Only if both packs drive straight and through. Unfortunately the Welsh front row will be better skilled at winning the hit and driving at angles. Where Ross is a solid TH and he can counter most dark arts (he reacts to what is being done to him and as result tries to bring things back to square and even) Jones is level beyond and will actually be proactively changing the task the LH has to deal with. That will protect the second row in the scrum to a degree.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Jaysus there's quite a lot of Irish angst here over what is surely a good team by any country's standards.

Most will be very happy with that team. There is just one or two selections people are unhappy with as always.

Try having to pick only Scottish players...

In case no one else has done it yet Kidney out horrible Selection

So anyways...... a horse walks into a bar and the barman asks........

shouldn't you be in a Tesco burger?

nobbled wrote:shouldn't you be in a Tesco burger?

red_stag wrote:Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

Conor Murray gets attacking the fringes like he did against Racing Metro and we keep the Welsh guessing. When the Welsh are convinced that we are going to boot the leather off the ball we run at them with Zebo and Gilroy.

Finally just when they think with 20 minutes to go that all is grand we introduce Chris Henry who hits them at the breakdown and Ronan O'Gara with Sexton moving to 12. Suddenly they haven't a clue what to expect as a fresh Keith Earls comes into the team and they find out that in Cronin and Kilcoyne we have a way to punch through the middle with our front rows.

Without a flyhalf of their own the Welsh are rudderless and lack the direction needed to break us down in the mud and grime.

Ireland win and we all go home happy.

Far too positive...

You guys are fecking hilarious - That's a response to the burger horse thing not Stags positive post by the way

Should have started O'Gara - we'd stroll to victory with pin point accuracy into the corner.

sorry to hijack this thread but what on earth is wrong with horse meat in burgers? probably healthier as well.

whocares wrote:sorry to hijack this thread but what on earth is wrong with horse meat in burgers? probably healthier as well.

Don't be sorry thats the most sensible comment on here all day......

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Just for a laugh, Ireland team on provincial form in the Heineken Cup;

1. Court
2. Best
3. Ross Macklin
4. Ryan Stevenson
5. McCarthy
6. O'Brien Diack
7. Henry
8. Heaslip Coughlan
9. Murray Marshall
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. D'Arcy Marshall
13. BOD Cave
14. Trimble
15. Kearney Henshaw

.....

1. Court/Healy - both have been fantastic this season IMO
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. McCarthy
6. POM - SOB has also played well but POM has been been ferocious this year
7. Henry
8. Coughlan
9. Murray/Marshall - both have mostly had good games
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. D'arcy
13. erm... nobody is really in form
14. Trimble - although he has been better in the Rabo rather than HEC
15. again, nobody is in form

who cares we can see your location. keep your greasy mits of our horses pal.

It's not the selections that people should be worried about. It's the way they play together that is the concern.

The fetish that some posters (and Kidney) have with populating the team with ball carriers is interesting to behold. Surely the whole point of a ball carrier is that he... er... carries the ball and therefore by definition - doesn't pass. So the passing / offloading game aired against the Pumas has probably been binned in favour of a reversion to Kidney's comfort blanket of driving through the middle. Just as there is no point in playing Trimble if the game isn't played on the gainline and there are no decoy runners, so there is no point in starting Chris Henry whose prime function is to be a link between the breakdown and fast ball to the backs.

Posters wonder how Darce has become so ineffective in attack, but in truth that is no longer his role. He is a midfield groundhog used to provide ball for the next ball carrier. BOD is exceptional at this as well. So the plan is get field position through a series of carries and hope the oppo defence creaks. If there's not much happening then Sexton (in ROG mode) can always kick for field position.

Zebo, Gilroy and Kearney are there mainly to field the high balls and run all the way to the tryline if they can (without passing the ball). Not easy but it has happened.

Kidney has got his selection entirely right for the game he's intending to play - but it's a type of game that has neither been successful nor attractive.

The Great Aukster wrote:It's not the selections that people should be worried about. It's the way they play together that is the concern.

The fetish that some posters (and Kidney) have with populating the team with ball carriers is interesting to behold. Surely the whole point of a ball carrier is that he... er... carries the ball and therefore by definition - doesn't pass. So the passing / offloading game aired against the Pumas has probably been binned in favour of a reversion to Kidney's comfort blanket of driving through the middle. Just as there is no point in playing Trimble if the game isn't played on the gainline and there are no decoy runners, so there is no point in starting Chris Henry whose prime function is to be a link between the breakdown and fast ball to the backs.

Posters wonder how Darce has become so ineffective in attack, but in truth that is no longer his role. He is a midfield groundhog used to provide ball for the next ball carrier. BOD is exceptional at this as well. So the plan is get field position through a series of carries and hope the oppo defence creaks. If there's not much happening then Sexton (in ROG mode) can always kick for field position.

Zebo, Gilroy and Kearney are there mainly to field the high balls and run all the way to the tryline if they can (without passing the ball). Not easy but it has happened.

Kidney has got his selection entirely right for the game he's intending to play - but it's a type of game that has neither been successful nor attractive.

I agree with the thrust of your post and the tactical issues, but glaciers move faster than Chris Henry.

Link man is not an aspect of 7s play I would be looking to him for. (Although I would select him ahead of POM)

Hopefully he can come off the bench and give Dekkie a reason to start him next time.

Henry is a much improved link man. Has great hands and his speed of thought makes up for any pace he lacks.

whocares wrote:sorry to hijack this thread but what on earth is wrong with horse meat in burgers? probably healthier as well.

Can give you the trots

Sorry

chris henry has been outstanding this year. he is a bit unlucky to lose out given Wales will go with two open sides and we are going with two blindsides. Back row balance would be a bit of a worry.

time will tell whether Kidney has made the right decision. Its still a very good team on paper but I fear we will play into Wales hands yet again and hand them the ball and kick the leather off it. I hope we try and play rugby and make the Welsh defend and really go at them.

Will we win lads?? On paper we are far closer to full strength than Wales but we have been deservedly beaten by the Welsh over the last few years. Thought we were unlucky with in the 19-13 with the joke of a try but can have no complaints on defeat in WC and in Aviva last year

nobbled wrote:

whocares wrote:sorry to hijack this thread but what on earth is wrong with horse meat in burgers? probably healthier as well.

Can give you the trots

Sorry

I read in the papers yesterday that the Tesco horsemeat-in-a-"beef-burger" had been traced to Poland. So do you think we can blame it on a Gatland training camp?

And yes the horseburger probably was healthier. And technically more authentic - the original "hamburger" meat (as carried by Genghis Khan's men) was horse

dublin_dave wrote:Will we win lads?? On paper we are far closer to full strength than Wales but we have been deservedly beaten by the Welsh over the last few years. Thought we were unlucky with in the 19-13 with the joke of a try but can have no complaints on defeat in WC and in Aviva last year

I don't think so. Wales owe their recent run of form against us to being more tactically astute and better prepared. So far what we seem to be doing differently to past meetings with Wales under Kidney is... nothing.

There's only one reason to think this time is going to play out differently, one thing thats in our favour; Rob Howley. I personally think we should be favourites but we've been figured out about 2 years ago and we haven't done anything differently or made any meaningful changes to the coaching ticket so teams will continue to have our number. We'll win something like 3 tests on the strength of individual talent but this won't be one of them.

i was very confident in the run up to the 6 nations but im starting to get a bit jittery now. Im thinking 3rd place at best.

Under Kidney we can win big matches sure but put 5 coherent astute performances together in succession i just cannot see it.

I really hope im wrong

whocares wrote:sorry to hijack this thread but what on earth is wrong with horse meat in burgers? probably healthier as well.

Untraceable. God knows what stuff has been shoved down the poor horses mouth over the years.

I predicted 2nd for us in an article I wrote for a website, I hope Kidney gets it right lol

O'Gara would also best serve the Irish paying public by appearing in a Tesco burger.

nah rather rog went to the glue factory and ends up in a roll of prit stick

I think most should wait until the Wales team is announced before predicting an Ireland win. If Ryan Jones (for me he should be at 6) and Ian Evans are available to the match-day squad I reckon the advantage goes back to us. I'm hoping that Kohn starts, we'll need the ball carrying abilities with that Ireland back-row running around. I think Wales will put out the better backs, and our bench will be better than you think, certainly with the front-row options. Henry should be at 7, I agree with some of you there. Shame you ain't got Wallace these days. I remember the Ireland back-row being nigh-on-unstoppable when he was at 7. I also don't see what DOC and ROG add to the 23 right now. If I was Munsterman I would be worried for O'Gara's health should he step onto the field of play.

*EDIT - I have posted this on the wrong thread. It was meant for the Wales vs Ireland match-day article and poll.

Sin é wrote:

whocares wrote:sorry to hijack this thread but what on earth is wrong with horse meat in burgers? probably healthier as well.

Untraceable. God knows what stuff has been shoved down the poor horses mouth over the years.

Genius SIN lad. Exactly. And that´s comin from the horse's mouth.

DOD wrote:

red_stag wrote:Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

Conor Murray gets attacking the fringes like he did against Racing Metro and we keep the Welsh guessing. When the Welsh are convinced that we are going to boot the leather off the ball we run at them with Zebo and Gilroy.

Finally just when they think with 20 minutes to go that all is grand we introduce Chris Henry who hits them at the breakdown and Ronan O'Gara with Sexton moving to 12. Suddenly they haven't a clue what to expect as a fresh Keith Earls comes into the team and they find out that in Cronin and Kilcoyne we have a way to punch through the middle with our front rows.

Without a flyhalf of their own the Welsh are rudderless and lack the direction needed to break us down in the mud and grime.

Ireland win and we all go home happy.

Far too positive...

Makes total sense to me. Its the Munster Way. Its a Munster coach. Play shoite rugby, hopefully win and be well happy with it. Why are you going against the grain Decco?

Bit of a Cork Ladyboy are we? Far too long in de Reel Capital boy. That' s your problem.

"he drinks piña colada..."

Glas - How you on here 24/7 mate? - Are you getting paid to print your wisdom on 606 or what

Gibson wrote:

DOD wrote:

red_stag wrote:Is there not an ideal opportunity for Ireland to punish Wales.

We can decide if we want an open or closed stadium. Let it pish rain on top of the Welsh.

We boot the ball into the corners and have a field day against the injury depleted Welsh pack. Rain and a dreadful Millennium Stadium pitch drags the Welsh scrum down to our level.

Conor Murray gets attacking the fringes like he did against Racing Metro and we keep the Welsh guessing. When the Welsh are convinced that we are going to boot the leather off the ball we run at them with Zebo and Gilroy.

Finally just when they think with 20 minutes to go that all is grand we introduce Chris Henry who hits them at the breakdown and Ronan O'Gara with Sexton moving to 12. Suddenly they haven't a clue what to expect as a fresh Keith Earls comes into the team and they find out that in Cronin and Kilcoyne we have a way to punch through the middle with our front rows.

Without a flyhalf of their own the Welsh are rudderless and lack the direction needed to break us down in the mud and grime.

Ireland win and we all go home happy.

Far too positive...

Makes total sense to me. Its the Munster Way. Its a Munster coach. Play shoite rugby, hopefully win and be well happy with it. Why are you going against the grain Decco?

Bit of a Cork Ladyboy are we? Far too long in de Reel Capital boy. That' s your problem.

Ah Gibbo, now that Leinster have returned to their normal level its time to roll back and play some proper rugby. No coincidence that while Leinster were carrying then can 2010-2013 Ireland achieved nowt.

Now that normal service has resumed I think we will have a good 6 Nations

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/01/31/wales-team-announcement-v-ireland-live-12-50pm-91466-32713480/

Live team announcement online link.

Scouring a few other fora and doing a bit of Colombo-esque jigsaw-work to build up a full picture, it seems that Cave was asked to hang around and hold tackle bags, but instead told Deccie where exactly the esrtwhile coach could store said tackle bags.

Can't say I blame him, if that's correct. He doesn't even qualify as having bridges to burn. Back to God's country, Darren, and prepare for the Hairsprays!