England Changes Vs Ireland?

First topic message reminder :

I thought it was a good all round team performance from England against the Scots, particularly in the pack but I do not think anyone had a bad game as such. England showed the intent to move the ball quickly throughout the game, this did leave them open to turnovers and counter attacks, as a result of this the likes of brown and Goode were stretched defensively. So despite what could be perceived as flaky defensive displays I think Lancaster will continue with, what has been his policy up to this point, and try to pick the same team next week.

At this point I have to say that Mike Browns positioning and decision making out on the wing was directly responsible for the Scots first try, in a game where England are not so dominant up front it is errors like this that could lead to crucial scores. I thought Brown was excellent again in attack and want to see him in the team vs Ireland. I am sure im not the only one who would like to see brown at full back and a winger brought in but I dont think Lancaster will do this as there are no wingers in the squad demanding selection. Wade should be in the squad.

Apart from that we have the potential return of Tuilagi. Now, a fit and firing tuilagi is a certain starter but the policy is play your way back in, and he should be given every opportunity to do so from the bench, if he does come back firing then the question of who he replaces will be asked on the next test weekend.

The only other selection questions may come from injuries and knocks that tend to emerge in the days after a test match but the only one I have heard is Morgans ankle and nothing to suggest he is not fit, if he isnt, its Haskell for me. Haskell is unfortunate not to be in the side anyway, different player to morgan but against a strong Irish back row it could be a benefit having him there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9426975.stm

I would say England have a stronger side than the one that lost in 2011. Certainly in the centres!

A centre combo of Hape/Banahan was always a recipe for disaster!

OK - like many have said. The only real issue is Tuilagi.
Most want him to come straight back into the starting 15. Thats fine, re-combine Tuilagi-Barritt. But 36 has'nt merited a drop, yes he made a few errors but as others have said, he got better throuout the game.
Cohesion was lost when 36 was subbed and Flood came on in the centers!
Not to kick Flood as he was just one more player playing out of position, but perhaps we could try 36 taking Floods bench spot to come on for Barritt at 60mins.

beshocked wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9426975.stm

I would say England have a stronger side than the one that lost in 2011. Certainly in the centres!

A centre combo of Hape/Banahan was always a recipe for disaster!

and 6 months later http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/14682807

Of course it was in the pack that they stuffed us in the 6Ns and same again when we gain revenge in the WC war-up match. Both teams will look quite a lot different on Sunday. Ireland shoudl be clear favourites - but we can do it.

Were going to lose this one.

Brace yourselves lads and just remember we are never so good or so bad as were written up to be.

I dont think that well disgrace ourselves at all on Sunday but we will be out gunned in contact and the offloading wont quite work out for us.

Hopefully we will have the courage to keep trying to play positive rugby for the remainder of the tournament.

We might lose but as long as we keep progressing the gameplan and don't go in to our shells i'll be happy.

Worried about dealing with the Irish choke tackles and their backrow, plus their wingers could make fools out of Brown and Ashton.

yappysnap wrote:We might lose but as long as we keep progressing the gameplan and don't go in to our shells i'll be happy.

Worried about dealing with the Irish choke tackles and their backrow, plus their wingers could make fools out of Brown and Ashton.

+1

There is nothing more to say. Honourable defeat to the pesky irish coming up. I wonder if the French can stop them in Dublin?

A very open Championship!

Not sure whether to believe this English modesty or not. In 2011 I was licking my chops at the England centre pairing which in my opinion was abysmal. There will be no such weaknesses this time.

I worry about the English physically. Plain and simple they have more muscle than us (Ireland) and the scrum is a concern as we dont have a plan B.

Tackles: Ireland made 176 tackles v Wales. England made 90 v Scotland. Ireland may be a little more drained though there is an 8 day turnaround.

Dicipline: Ireland's dicipline is bad. Two yellows v England and forget about it.

Cant call this match. No clear favorite.

Triangulation wrote:

yappysnap wrote:We might lose but as long as we keep progressing the gameplan and don't go in to our shells i'll be happy.

Worried about dealing with the Irish choke tackles and their backrow, plus their wingers could make fools out of Brown and Ashton.

+1

There is nothing more to say. Honourable defeat to the pesky irish coming up. I wonder if the French can stop them in Dublin?

A very open Championship!

Sadly I think you might be right. We were a bit naive at times vs Scotland I thought, some of those loose offloads would be capitalised upon by Ireland. Scotland also allowed us to look good in many ways, very non-confrotational at the ruck and as a defensive line. I worry about Brown vs Zebo too...

Another concern for me is that having watched the Ireland game, they gave away very few kickable penalties until they were out of sight, we need to keep the scoreboard turning over to have a chance really.

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure whether to believe this English modesty or not. In 2011 I was licking my chops at the England centre pairing which in my opinion was abysmal. There will be no such weaknesses this time.

I worry about the English physically. Plain and simple they have more muscle than us (Ireland) and the scrum is a concern as we dont have a plan B.

Tackles: Ireland made 176 tackles v Wales. England made 90 v Scotland. Ireland may be a little more drained though there is an 8 day turnaround.

Dicipline: Ireland's dicipline is bad. Two yellows v England and forget about it.

Cant call this match. No clear favorite.

Balls to that! You're at home man!

We've not beaten you there since 2003!

Ireland have fixed their scrum. They more than held the welsh there.

They have pace out wide which we dont.

They have the choke/strangle tackle which is the perfect antidote to our attempted offloading game and as i say the pace to exploit inevitable turnovers.

I only hope that this match does not ruin our progress or change our course.

I will hate Ireland if that happens. (not really hate but you know what i mean!)

What do English posters think about Englands back play v Scotland?

IMO it was very direct, rugby leaguesque with very little creativity or layering.

I hope England play this way against Ireland as it would play to our defensive strengths. Choke tackle heaven. Mind you the direct back play compliments England's dominance at the breakdown.

Ireland tend to concede 20 meters min every time when the ball is fed out to the wide men.

Guns

I think it's more about England fans trying to keep expectations realistic - it's a match between probably the two in-form NH teams, who are closely matched on paper. As such, home advantage for Ireland should give you the edge (unless Mike Ross has to go off after half an hour, like last year...).

I agree with the others, that I want to see England continue to show the ambition that they did against Scotland, in trying to keep the ball moving and getting over the gain line. The off-loading game will be very important in trying to bypass the strength of the Irish 'choke tackle', so it's going to be interesting to watch who comes out ahead in that area.

Tri is entirely right to say that we are never as good or as bad as we are written up to be.

dummy_half wrote:Guns

I think it's more about England fans trying to keep expectations realistic - it's a match between probably the two in-form NH teams, who are closely matched on paper. As such, home advantage for Ireland should give you the edge (unless Mike Ross has to go off after half an hour, like last year...).

I agree with the others, that I want to see England continue to show the ambition that they did against Scotland, in trying to keep the ball moving and getting over the gain line. The off-loading game will be very important in trying to bypass the strength of the Irish 'choke tackle', so it's going to be interesting to watch who comes out ahead in that area.

Tri is entirely right to say that we are never as good or as bad as we are written up to be.

Totally agree with you.

GunsGerms wrote:What do English posters think about Englands back play v Scotland?

IMO it was very direct, rugby leaguesque with very little creativity or layering.

I hope England play this way against Ireland as it would play to our defensive strengths. Choke tackle heaven. Mind you the direct back play compliments England's dominance at the breakdown.

Ireland tend to concede 20 meters min every time when the ball is fed out to the wide men.

Agree with this except to say that we had a brand new centre combo and to add that 36 did mix up his running angles nicely. He carries the ball very well in two hands to keep defenders guessing.

Tuilagi will (contrary to what a lot of people seem to think of him), add sophistication to our backline play.

He is deceptively quick. He has good fast feet and he uses them. 3 quick eg.s

1. his try vs wales off a wilko pass. he picked a great line and went over almost untouched.
2. his try v france - he went down the right touchline not caught until the line itself - far too late
3. his break vs nz for ashton's try was all about the lovely curved line he took and pace which took him past carter and mc caw.

Yeah Tuilagi does run some nice lines. He has some moves alright. I hope we can use shooters effectively against him because if he moves through the gears he can be destructive. This will be harder if England use a multi layered attack.

Last time Tuilagi came to Landsdowne he ended the career of one of our most popular players of all time, D Wallace. I hope some of our players can return the favour with some big hits on him. Much easier said then done.

I agree with those saying that Tuilagi should probably come back into the side from the bench. I'm more than confident in 36 & Barritt and think it's best to stick with a performing pair in what will be a step up in the challenge they face. Tuilagi is comming back from injury without a game to get him back in the groove and when he's been thrown straight back in before he's not performed as well as he can and there will be a lot of pressure in this instance.

Also agree with those saying that Goode & Brown both in the back 3 isn't convincing and that with 36 in the centres Goode is probably the player that unfortunately loses out.

That having been said I'm not much more convinced about the options to bring in on the wing. Strettle leaves me a bit cold (though I think SL's most likely pick), Foden doesn't currently look in the sort of form he needs to perform there, same probably goes for Joseph, and based on May's & Wade's recent performances for the Saxons I don't think they're quite ready to step up and straight in to a match of this level (from the Saxons I'd be more inclined to play Daly there).

Its so difficult and I think a lot depends on how Tuilagi goes in training. He just has that spark, that ability to make something happen, and the longer he is on the pitch the more chance he has of doing that.

I would say that suggesting some of the Irish players 'return the 'favour'' is in danger of crossing the line. I am ashamed to say that I cannot now remember the circumstances of the injury to that great player Wallace but I cant recall any controversy about the incident.

lostinwales wrote:Its so difficult and I think a lot depends on how Tuilagi goes in training. He just has that spark, that ability to make something happen, and the longer he is on the pitch the more chance he has of doing that.

I would say that suggesting some of the Irish players 'return the 'favour'' is in danger of crossing the line. I am ashamed to say that I cannot now remember the circumstances of the injury to that great player Wallace but I cant recall any controversy about the incident.

Tuialgi tackled him hard but legally over the sideline if memory serves. His knee gave way.

Nevermind all that well lose on sunday. The irish will find the "england gear"

Advocating career ending foul play after there was no controversy when one of your player picked up a knock. You're a classy guy Germs

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9426975.stm

I would say England have a stronger side than the one that lost in 2011. Certainly in the centres!

A centre combo of Hape/Banahan was always a recipe for disaster!

and 6 months later http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/14682807

Of course it was in the pack that they stuffed us in the 6Ns and same again when we gain revenge in the WC war-up match. Both teams will look quite a lot different on Sunday. Ireland shoudl be clear favourites - but we can do it.

Just from the highlights and Tuilagi's grinning face as he tore the Irish defence to shreds we have to pick the guy?

On the highlights you can see Tuilagi smashing Wallace (looks a legal albeit powerful tackle) and someone else. It's the Manu Tuilagi show! Oh and a Ashton sin bin. Haven't seen that before.

SL needs to fix the left wing. And Haskell in for injured Morgan.
But left wing was our most obvious weakness. Need a speed feak who can also tackle.

AlastairW wrote:Advocating career ending foul play after there was no controversy when one of your player picked up a knock. You're a classy guy Germs

Thats ok you are probably a girl. Rugby is a mans game and every good team will target good players for some big hits, which by the way arent illegal in any way neither was Tuilagi's tackle on Wallace by the way. He just happens to be a monster.

There is some netball starting on the Hallmark channel, you might be better suited to that.

Can you please point out where I advocate foul play? In fairness you probably misinterpreted my comments. I dont want to see Tuilagi's career ended. Far from it. I would like to see him targeted for a bruising though cause he is so good.

gregortree wrote:SL needs to fix the left wing. And Haskell in for injured Morgan.
But left wing was our most obvious weakness. Need a speed feak who can also tackle.

We do have one of those but I didnt think Monye was rated these days

lostinwales wrote:

gregortree wrote:SL needs to fix the left wing. And Haskell in for injured Morgan.
But left wing was our most obvious weakness. Need a speed feak who can also tackle.

We do have one of those but I didnt think Monye was rated these days

Is Monye a left winger?

If Brown starts at 15 then throw Monye in at 11 then.

This will be a battle of the back rows at the breakdown - the game will be won and lost there, forget the centres, they can't do anything without good ball.
Two cracking back rows against each other, can't wait.

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Advocating career ending foul play after there was no controversy when one of your player picked up a knock. You're a classy guy Germs

Thats ok you are probably a girl. Rugby is a mans game and every good team will target good players for some big hits, which by the way arent illegal in any way neither was Tuilagi's tackle on Wallace by the way. He just happens to be a monster.

There is some netball starting on the Hallmark channel, you might be better suited to that.

Can you please point out where I advocate foul play? In fairness you probably misinterpreted my comments. I dont want to see Tuilagi's career ended. Far from it. I would like to see him targeted for a bruising though cause he is so good.

If you think name calling, petty bickering, making crap jibes at others 'manhood' is being a 'man' then you are sorely mistaken. It makes you a little man definatley, not a big one.

You could probabley learn something from the Hallmark channel, or are you too busy trying to reinforce your own manliness?

Is it confirmed that Morgan is injured? If so that's quite a blow. I thought he played well. I particularly liked him running over Visser.

The back row battle is interesting, especially if the same back rows start on Sunday as did on Saturday, (or swap Haskell for Morgan) as neither has an out and out groundhog, relying on the front row to pick up the slack and do the dirty work.

If Ireland decide to start Henry it could well be advantage Ireland... And Morgan would be a massive loss as he makes so many yards on and over the gainline.

beshocked wrote:Is it confirmed that Morgan is injured? If so that's quite a blow. I thought he played well. I particularly liked him running over Visser.

I've had a look around, and there's nothing announced about it. I haven't been on the soical media updates though, and they do seem to get it right now & again.

BBC currently saying Morgan 'extremely unlikely to be fit' for Sunday. Not good news, as he does offer more open field ball carrying than our alternatives.

I do think England's flankers are a bit under-rated. Robshaw may not be in the McCaw or Pocock class as a fetcher, but he's pretty good and his partnership with Wood is developing very nicely. Their tandem operation in the ruck has been strong for the last 3 matches.

Reading in the rugby paper Jeremy Guscot thinks that the only chancge will be Manu and 36 in the centre with Brad Barret n the bench.

Any idea how Ben Morgan is? will he be fit enough or will he miss the game?

If he is not going to be ready for the game who will they bring in? Will it be
Waldrom the tank?

Apart from any injuries in training i think that will be the only changes in the team.

AlastairW wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

AlastairW wrote:Advocating career ending foul play after there was no controversy when one of your player picked up a knock. You're a classy guy Germs

Thats ok you are probably a girl. Rugby is a mans game and every good team will target good players for some big hits, which by the way arent illegal in any way neither was Tuilagi's tackle on Wallace by the way. He just happens to be a monster.

There is some netball starting on the Hallmark channel, you might be better suited to that.

Can you please point out where I advocate foul play? In fairness you probably misinterpreted my comments. I dont want to see Tuilagi's career ended. Far from it. I would like to see him targeted for a bruising though cause he is so good.

If you think name calling, petty bickering, making crap jibes at others 'manhood' is being a 'man' then you are sorely mistaken. It makes you a little man definatley, not a big one.

You could probabley learn something from the Hallmark channel, or are you too busy trying to reinforce your own manliness?

Alistar, you get upset if an opposition fan suggests one of you players should be targeted for a bit of rough and tumble. Man up a little, dont take yourself so seriously. Its a tough sport.

The collisions are a huge part of the game - but the language used in this case was poor.

The point is that its OK to say target Tuilagi -(or Farrell - as its always the FH) for some attention. Its not OK to say give them some attention because Wallace's knee got bust when he was tackled by Tuilagi Thats how it reads

Haskell Wood & Robshaw will pick up what is left of BOD after Manu has tackled him a few times.

BBC also says Will Fraiser called up to the squad

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Lay off the personal tripe gentlemen - there's some completely unneccesary personal snideness creeping in

Ok sorry Al/Pete. Maybe we should set up an Ireland v England bickering thread too. Just kidding I love the English.

You can try and target Tuilagi and Farrell if you want but it's one thing saying it and another doing it.

Farrell Jr is big for a fly half at over 15st and 6,2.

Manu Tuilagi at over 17st and 6,0 is not exactly an easy target either.

GunsGerms wrote:Yeah Tuilagi does run some nice lines. He has some moves alright. I hope we can use shooters effectively against him because if he moves through the gears he can be destructive. This will be harder if England use a multi layered attack.

Last time Tuilagi came to Landsdowne he ended the career of one of our most popular players of all time, D Wallace. I hope some of our players can return the favour with some big hits on him. Much easier said then done.

This whole thing is obviously a misunderstanding. Guns said the above.

From this, it seems like (if you read it literally) he is saying that he wants the players to "return the favour" of ending Wallace's career. This would imply that he wants the Irish to end Manu's career.

I don't think he meant that - he simply means that he wants some big hits to come Manu's way and for the Irish to fire themselves up for the contest. No career ending though, just big hits.

So everyone just and

Now that that is sorted...

I really don't want to see Waldrom back. He isn't playing well anyway. I think Haskell to start and possibly even Croft on the bench if Morgan isn't fit.

lostinwales wrote:BBC also says Will Fraiser called up to the squad

Good for him.

beshocked wrote:You can try and target Tuilagi and Farrell if you want but it's one thing saying it and another doing it.

Farrell Jr is big for a fly half at over 15st and 6,2.

Manu Tuilagi at over 17st and 6,0 is not exactly an easy target either.

Agreed. Didnt realise Farrell was that big!! Mind you Sexton is very solid too for an OH.

No changes are needed as England will win anyway!

Just to be clear. I dont want MTs career to be ended. I would like to see some shooters fly into him though.

Guns,
wot ? like Richie McCaw did in December ?

Thanks Wales for softening them up for England:

"Ireland delay naming their side to face England to allow several players time to overcome injuries sustained against Wales. "

That and the softening up of the ABs a couple of months ago (we know how that ended up) that is 2 we now owe you.

Farrell looks like a 15 year old prefect not a solid unit like his dad. It always surprises me to hear just how big he actually is.

Biggest change Id like to see from England is the haircuts. Really honestly has their ever been a bigger bunch of tarts ( and Im including Wales c 2009 here) in world rugby?
Fair enough Floods always looked like hes in busted, but Whilst Marlers toned it down a bit clashing beard and head colours is a bit ridiculous. Danny Care started it with that indescribable mess, but the most disappointing to me is farrell who used to be a nice grounded northern lad with a council estate mobile barbers short back and sides...now he looks like a Toni and Guy model.
It doesn't matter what you do to your hair, those pink/purple tracksuit tops will stop you from every been mistaken for someone with credibility or style.

2011
BBC: "But England's scrum power was evident as they pushed the Irish back on their own ball, giving Wilkinson the opportunity to make it 10-3. "

2012
nuff said.

Looks like scrum power will be very telling.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Farrell looks like a 15 year old prefect not a solid unit like his dad. It always surprises me to hear just how big he actually is.

Biggest change Id like to see from England is the haircuts. Really honestly has their ever been a bigger bunch of tarts ( and Im including Wales c 2009 here) in world rugby?
Fair enough Floods always looked like hes in busted, but Whilst Marlers toned it down a bit clashing beard and head colours is a bit ridiculous. Danny Care started it with that indescribable mess, but the most disappointing to me is farrell who used to be a nice grounded northern lad with a council estate mobile barbers short back and sides...now he looks like a Toni and Guy model.
It doesn't matter what you do to your hair, those pink/purple tracksuit tops will stop you from every been mistaken for someone with credibility or style.

World player of the year nomination has gone to his head literally. Good post Peter. Jamie heaslip has a silly haircut too.

GunsGerms wrote:Just to be clear. I dont want MTs career to be ended. I would like to see some shooters fly into him though.

Thats fine

It will be very interesting to see how up for it this Irish team will be. They do have pace and they are very good at scoring when in the opposition 22, but I think (well, hope) they will be struggling to get hold of the ball.

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Just to be clear. I dont want MTs career to be ended. I would like to see some shooters fly into him though.

Thats fine

It will be very interesting to see how up for it this Irish team will be. They do have pace and they are very good at scoring when in the opposition 22, but I think (well, hope) they will be struggling to get hold of the ball.

I agree. I think we arent as good at the breakdown as we used to be and give away too many penalties. We need to get off to a good start here. A bit of momentum and Ireland could hit turbo against England but a few early penalties conceded v England and the back 3 may shy away from putting their hands in the cookie jar and the English centres could rip it up.

Ifs and buts, but if POC was playing I would be confident of an Irish win. We could really do with our two most physical players Ferris and POC for this match but we may just sneak a win anyway.

GunsGerms wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Lay off the personal tripe gentlemen - there's some completely unneccesary personal snideness creeping in

Ok sorry Al/Pete. Maybe we should set up an Ireland v England bickering thread too. Just kidding I love the English.

/doffs cap. Apologies as well.

I'm sure we can start that thread off