Lions wings?

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Not Welsh bias but I would have to say North and Cuthbert.

North is a god among mere mortals, Cuthbert is a born finisher.

Ashton can't tackle for love nor money and Bowe may not make it in time.

Maitland has set up 3 tries and scored 1. How many has Cuthbert or North set up?

They may have missed only one each but I've seen Cuthbert burned on more than one occasion. And any other winger in the world would have converted that intercept chance he had today.

I'm not doubting their attributes, but this season neither has been on form. I fact many Welsh fans were looking for one or the other to be dropped in favour of Lee Byrne at the start of the 6N.

They may not have done much wrong, but like Kearney or Visser, they've not done much right to try and work their way into contention.

If they were to score a hat-trick each, or even show some of their old form in the next few games then by all means they should tour, but at the minute they aren't in form and guys like Maitland, Hogg, Halfpenny, Brown and Zebo are ahead of them! In fact I'd even say someone like Andrew Trimble, who's been consistently good for Ulster at the top level would be a better fit than Cuthbert or North for the Lions at the minute.

It won't be Hogg Maitland and Halfpenny

Lions test sides need experience as much as form

Kearney and 1/2 will figure and Hogg may tour but to talk Test at thi spoint is premature

Halfpenny to remain at number 15, there is no one else in the world to touch him nerver mind the NH a fullback. North, if you watch the man is looking for work and is carrying well. Don't see much wrong with Cuthbert either but I am out on judgement on him the next 2 games

Cuthbert and Visser have both been caught out defensively, they don't seem to be able to read that area of the game well at all. If they improved it they could rightly be considered strong challengers for the wings but at the moment they're liabilities in defence, despite being good consistent attackers.

North is more capable in defence and as shown against France remains capable of scoring crucial tries and scoring them well but he does have his share of quiet games. I'd say with North it depends what the Lions midfield and halfbacks are looking like, he'd be most effective with playmakers to find him space and set him up with one-on-ones. The reason he hasn't been as noticeable is because Wales have slipped into one of our phases of having the creative mindset of a turkey.

Wouldn't be so sure about Maitland simply because he has two caps to his name. Sure he's performed well on both occasions but that ensures nothing, he could play well if selected or he could fold and anything in between. Must at least wait until the end of the tournament before commenting further.

I think that Hogg will be extremely lucky to tour:

- He lacks the versatility of Halfpenny, Kearney or Brown

- He lacks experience

- His rivals are not messing up in big ways either

Id expect to see Halfpenny, North, Kearney, Brown, Maitland (my wildcard) and either Zebo or Gilroy covering the back three positions.

Speaking of wildcards anyone see an uncapped player touring?

I'll go for Wade and Varndell



(It's nice in my fantasy dream world)

wasps wrote:I'll go for Wade and Varndell



(It's nice in my fantasy dream world)

Isn't it Traditional to pick one player for the Lions Squad who has yet to earn a Cap ?

There is no other Winger like Wade in the Home nations atm, surely Bringing him along will add more Variety to the Lion squads attacking abilities , rather than taking Both North and Visser (Two Big Direct running Wingers) on tour

My current squad picks

FB - Kearney, Hogg
Wing - Maitland, North, Bowe (wildcard as may not be match fit)
FB / Wing - Halfpenny

My current staring back 3
15 - Kearney
14 - Halfpenny
11 - Maitland

No Ashton (defending, temperament), Cuthbert (defending, positioning, handling) Visser (defending). Finishing alone is not enough.

I have watched all of the 6N games quite carefully and with the greatest will in the world, to suggest that Brown is playing at the same level as 1/2p or Hogg is laughable. Other than be sufficiently solid in defense and kick for position with competence, what has he actually done of any note? I'm not wumming, I'm trying to understand everyone's positions. England's back three have actually been their least effective unit this tournament although obviously all that may change in the last few matches.

I am Kearney's biggest fan and he was my Lions test 15 at the start of the year but I think that fans should (as with Heaslip) try hard to be much more objective about bow he is actually playing at the moment - he's hardly bothered the offensive line at all and I think is only about 75% of the giant we're seen in previous seasons.

George Carlin

In both the Scotland and Ireland games Brown made the most yards with the ball of anyone. He hasn't been scoring tries, but he's been effective and at club level he's astonishing

Heuer27 wrote:

If Farrell is not at ten then personally I'd find a space for him on the wing. He would not let anyone down and his kicking would be indispensable.

Had to read that a couple of times before I worked out that you were talking about Halfpenny

thomh wrote:

Heuer27 wrote:

If Farrell is not at ten then personally I'd find a space for him on the wing. He would not let anyone down and his kicking would be indispensable.

Had to read that a couple of times before I worked out that you were talking about Halfpenny

Farrell on the wing? Why not!!

thomh wrote:George Carlin

In both the Scotland and Ireland games Brown made the most yards with the ball of anyone. He hasn't been scoring tries, but he's been effective and at club level he's astonishing

I totally agree his club form has been excellent - that's why I've been quite disappointed with him in the international season because I can't help but shake the feeling that he's capable of more. It's an entirely different (and interesting question) whether Gatland will allow players to claim a Lions spot on club/province form alone if they miss the 6N.

Most players in contention will be able to point to a good showing in both, but some big names (Lydiate, Rennie, S. Armitage, Hines) will not and we'll have to see how Gatland regards that.

Zebo may have only played one game but he was scintillating int hat game. Hogg looks better with every game, Maitland just looks the part. :-)

Of course its only a bit of fun - its far too early to to say yet and 1/2p has been good as well as have some of the other candidates. Back three we have plenty of choices none of who will let the team down

If Scotland can continue scoring tries then Hogg and Maitland should be in with a really good shout for selection. However their case would be strengthened if Scotland actually picked a centre to wear the13 shirt.

Dunbar has been in outstanding form for Glasgow, most recenlty in a spectaculalr rout of the appalling Dragons. I think he is a better 12 than 13 but he has the skills to play outside Scott. He has played all but his last 2 matches in the wider channel and his ability to pass the ball accurately would bring our back 3 into play more often.

Hopefully we will see Dunbar on show for the last two matches.

Much as I admire Hogg, both he and Maitland are unproven and just because they are having a good 6 Nations means nothing about Lions test starters. Hogg as a look in to tour but there are numerous players I would pick before them. I think Hogg will make the tour and may figure if we go 2-0 up but otherwise a mid week game can be seen as a huge achievement for him....the back three against probably the world's most potent backs at strenght will be made up of experienced players and Lions such as Kearney, Halfpenny, Bowe, North, Ashton (ouch)

thomh wrote:George Carlin

In both the Scotland and Ireland games Brown made the most yards with the ball of anyone. He hasn't been scoring tries, but he's been effective and at club level he's astonishing

I would definitely have Brown on tour.

There's a real dearth of quality and form on the wings, then only player I'd be keen on selecting there at the moment is Halfpenny.

markb wrote:There's a real dearth of quality and form on the wings, then only player I'd be keen on selecting there at the moment is Halfpenny.

That could apply to pretty much the entire backlines. There has been a real lack of quality creative back play.

Scotland counter=attacked well versus Italy and to a lesser degree England largely due to Hogg's broken field running.
England have looked stodgy in the last two matches.
Ireland played well for 40 minutes against Wales, but have struggled to create since.
Walescentres have been criticised by their own coaches for an inability to pass.

Maitland is a big no, visser has to go, zebo has no cutting edge played one game wasn't outstanding but I think its important for the strength of the tour that the best players go hogg north brown visser and 1/2p shock choice of wade he's the most exciting winger in euro at the moment

North and Halfpenny at the mo for me. I would def have Halfpenny starting and think Hogg at fullback, North just in but next 2 games could change it.

It remains tight. this weekend I think Hogg advanced his case, Ashton went backwards and the rest remain as they were

Visser BTW made 9 tackles and missed none and he had a good game with no ball.

Visser is world class just is he going be as good against North and Cuthbert we shall see two massive wingers world class

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

thomh wrote:

Heuer27 wrote:

If Farrell is not at ten then personally I'd find a space for him on the wing. He would not let anyone down and his kicking would be indispensable.

Had to read that a couple of times before I worked out that you were talking about Halfpenny

Farrell on the wing? Why not!!

Um................. because he is so so slow!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been looking with interest on the threads re the Lions,which as is to expected have been uniformly un successful.NOT that I am against the concept
it is the only link to the touring past.
The problem is supporters of the individual teams only consider there own players worthy.
As to experience in the case of Sean Maitland he is relatively untried at Test Level.BUT with respect has with the Crusaders faced the best opposition in the SH.
The Crusaders ANY Crusaders side entered in the 6Ns would have a good chance of winning it.

Maitland could be the best winger in the world (which as he was only a squad player at Crusaders last season, he isn't) I would still have a slight sour taste in my mouth should he be selected for the Lions, having only arrived here less than 10 weeks ago.

I am aware that we will probably have a number of non B&I players selected, but......

theslosty wrote:11. Halfpenny
14. Bowe (touch wood)
15. Kearney (ok not on form, but that'll come sooner rather than later IMO)

Bearing in mind it's no longer 2009, I can't see this happening.

Based on this weekend I would probably go Halfpenny at fullback with Hogg on the bench, mid-week games dependent. Hogg just isn't as good under the high ball as Halfpenny, or Kearney for that matter. I used to be of the opinion that it would depend on who starts at 10 - Farrell or Sexton - but I think Sexton's goal kicking is just about good enough to have him in the team without Halfpenny, assuming the Lions are going to be scoring lots of tries. If Farrell starts, I really think you need someone like Hogg for counter attack.

LondonTiger wrote:Maitland could be the best winger in the world (which as he was only a squad player at Crusaders last season, he isn't) I would still have a slight sour taste in my mouth should he be selected for the Lions, having only arrived here less than 10 weeks ago.

I am aware that we will probably have a number of non B&I players selected, but......

In his defence, I'm sure there will be a fair few Kiwis featuring for the Wallabies during the tests. I have to say, I don't think Maitland has shown enough yet to get him on the plane.

Anyonewant to do the stats for this stage? Tries, missed tackles etc.

Stats this 6N?

Yup - It will tell us a bit about who is infrom. I'll have a look at the scots on http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/series/133756.html

I'll post the English first up. Might chuck in some Prem and European Club stats too

I'd go with Maitland and Tuilagi on current form.

Scots back 3 this 6N
............Metres run...........defenders beaten.....takles made/missed.....tries
hogg........231...........................9.............................4/5...................2
Visser.........115.......................4..............................18/2.................1
Maintland 38......................... 1 ........................... 10/1 ................. 1

Everyone keeps going on about the choice of wingers when I strongly believe the hardest choice to pick is backrow with the form of people and the amount of talent that's out injured but due back soon

At 6N 2013:

Tries- Ashton 1 vs Brown 0
Carries- Ashton 24 vs Brown 26
metres- Ashton 50 vs Brown 208
m per Carry - Ashton 2 vs Brown 8
Defenders beaten - Ashton 0 vs Brown 7
Clean breaks- Ashton 0 vs Brown 3
Ball turned over to opposition - Ashton 5 vs Brown 2
Tackles made- Ashton 12 vs Brown 7
Tackles missed- Ashton 8 vs Brown 0
Success rate - Ashton 60% vs Brown 100%
Brown loses points because he shouldn't be playing wing and he gave away a stupid try with his stupid kick vs Scotland and is naive in defence. Gains points on turnovers and momentum
Ashton loses points on being the worst tackler ever at this level with a criminal tackle %age, but gains some on hard work

Hogg has made the most metres in the tournament, I know that much.

Just about

over 40% of those are from his interception try against Italy though

welshboii15 wrote:Visser is world class just is he going be as good against North and Cuthbert we shall see two massive wingers world class

In your world he may be world class, today he was, in your words, URINE poor

100%beefy wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:Visser is world class just is he going be as good against North and Cuthbert we shall see two massive wingers world class

In your world he may be world class, today he was, in your words, URINE poor

Really? did you watch the game. He hardly had a pass to work with, in defense nothing came past him - 9 tackles none missed and he chased kicks effectively.

I think visser is a solid performer I just would like to see him against north and Cuthbert because I see them as his biggest rivals for lions

Well we wont have long to wait!

Interesting that for all the criticism Jiffy gets for impartiality from a few Scots, he's wanting Hogg at 15.

Maitland would be my pick. the guy looks have it all. Maitland + 1.

And for all the guys bashing him over nationality; if you moved overseas, and then had a son who was good enough to play for your home nation/the Lions, I'm sure you would be on here saying he shouldn't get the chance.

I really would like to see Wade taken, not just being one eyed but I love his attacking game, and he isn't that terrible defensively.

Brings something different compared to the big boshers North/Cuthbert/Visser et all

Never know, he might have a Shane Williams 2005 type effect

North and Bowe for me if fit

BamBam wrote:I really would like to see Wade taken, not just being one eyed but I love his attacking game, and he isn't that terrible defensively.

Brings something different compared to the big boshers North/Cuthbert/Visser et all

Never know, he might have a Shane Williams 2005 type effect

+1 or Jason Robinson 2001

Notch wrote:Maitland would be my pick. the guy looks have it all. Maitland + 1.

And for all the guys bashing him over nationality; if you moved overseas, and then had a son who was good enough to play for your home nation/the Lions, I'm sure you would be on here saying he shouldn't get the chance.

I think it was only me, and I have no more of an issue with him qualifying for Scotland via the grandparent rule as I have with Waldrom and his granny, just with him having been here all of 50 days it feels very much like Zola Budd. He qualifies, therefore he can be selected. I do not have to like it though.




PS Actually I do have a big issue with Waldrom being selected for England.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

BamBam wrote:I really would like to see Wade taken, not just being one eyed but I love his attacking game, and he isn't that terrible defensively.

Brings something different compared to the big boshers North/Cuthbert/Visser et all

Never know, he might have a Shane Williams 2005 type effect

+1 or Jason Robinson 2001

+1

I love how Wade plays. Can't understand why England ignore him.