Wales team for Murrayfield???

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Here's the Wales team then:-

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (C), Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau.

REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Scott Andrews, Ryan Bevington, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams.

Sam Warburton, Paul James and Alun Wynn in, Andrews and Bevington on the bench.

Surprised to see Warburton given his place over Tipuric, I guess Gethin is out injured.

Its not great but its not awful. I'll have a look at Philips to see how he has done.
edit - better on the tackles made / missed. Shame he doesn't have the skillset of an attacking SH and I really think he will struggle with laidlaws speed of thought and deed.

TJ wrote:Its not great but its not awful. I'll have a look at Philips to see how he has done.
edit - better on the tackles made / missed. Shame he doesn't have the skillset of an attacking SH and I really think he will struggle with laidlaws speed of thought and deed.

I rate Laidlaw very highly, much more the type of scrum half I admire than Phillips who i think can be a baffoon sometimes, actually far more frequently than not, lets say 5 to 1 is probably a good average for him.

That said he is a more effective scrum half than Laidlaw in most matches. I think it will be a great match up. Really looking forward to it.

There should be good matchups all over the pitch including a few rivals for lions spots. Likewise looking forward to it. For once with some hope and not too much fear :-)

Phillips odesn't half get some stick for a beast of a player - I read two independent (non welsh) articles today eulogising about the player - When I see little Laidlaw burst over for trys like Mike does then he can be spoken of in the same breath, until then he remains a good little player who's finding his feet at this level

RubyGuby wrote:Phillips odesn't half get some stick for a beast of a player - I read two independent (non welsh) articles today eulogising about the player - When I see little Laidlaw burst over for trys like Mike does then he can be spoken of in the same breath, until then he remains a good little player who's finding his feet at this level

Phillips is an absolute monster. I just wish he'd pass quicker and box kick less.

Philips - 78 caps, 9 tries 45 pts
Laidlaw 16 matches 2 tries 132 pts

Pretty much identical rate of tries

TJ wrote:Philips - 78 caps, 9 tries 45 pts
Laidlaw 16 matches 2 tries 132 pts

Pretty much identical rate of tries

I see they award 66pts for a try in Scotland - I guess if it helps

RubyGuby wrote:

TJ wrote:Philips - 78 caps, 9 tries 45 pts
Laidlaw 16 matches 2 tries 132 pts

Pretty much identical rate of tries

I see they award 66pts for a try in Scotland - I guess if it helps

The magnitude of the tries is what counts.

England 2008
Ireland2011
Ireland RWC
France RWC
Lions test

Etc etc..

Its a Sell out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/scotland/9895761/Six-Nations-2013-Scotland-announce-Murrayfield-sell-out-for-their-final-hame-game-in-championships-against-Wales.html

TJ wrote:Philips - 78 caps, 9 tries 45 pts
Laidlaw 16 matches 2 tries 132 pts

Pretty much identical rate of tries

78 caps.He must be crap!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

TJ wrote:Philips - 78 caps, 9 tries 45 pts
Laidlaw 16 matches 2 tries 132 pts

Pretty much identical rate of tries

78 caps.He must be crap!

In the land of the blind....

Shouldn't Wales select their team V Scotland with an eye out for their final match of the season V England at Cardiff? For me they should do this with a bigger heavier pack with Alun Wyn Jones coming in at lock with Coombes moving to blind-side flank, and Ryan Jones at number 8. Also in order for Wales to have a chance of beating England, Wales will need a player with very strong physical presence at 12 to man-mark and snuff out the attacking play and effectiveness of England's new centre sensation Billy Twelvetrees. With this in mind, Wales could consider trying out Sam Warburton in the 12 centre position V Scotland to give him a chance of getting used to the position before the team heads into the hard and very bruising physical encounter V England at Cardiff.

Actually it wouldn't surprise me if..

Wales blow Scotland away by 20+
Marginally beat England to take title.

Wales will need their strongest side and will have to play very well to beat Scotland at Murrayfield

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Actually it wouldn't surprise me if..

Wales blow Scotland away by 20+
Marginally beat England to take title.

If Wales marginally beat England then Wales will have had to have beaten Scotland by more than England beat Italy to take the title. Ain't gonna happen, my friend.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

TJ wrote:Philips - 78 caps, 9 tries 45 pts
Laidlaw 16 matches 2 tries 132 pts

Pretty much identical rate of tries

I see they award 66pts for a try in Scotland - I guess if it helps

The magnitude of the tries is what counts.

England 2008
Ireland2011
Ireland RWC
France RWC
Lions test

Etc etc..

Thats just it, the tries you listed there were turning points in the matches. Phillips is a big game player.

Phillips is a big game player.

That's the problem - this is Scotland

RubyGuby wrote:Phillips is a big game player.

That's the problem - this is Scotland

That explains quite a lot.

Without this degenerating into a slagging match, can some of our Welsh bretheren enlighten me as to why Phillips gets starts and Williams does not?

Is Phillips living of a killer rep that he doesn't have anymore. I can say with absolute certainty that I would start Williams instead because he provides such crisp service to Wales fantastic attacking threats in the backs.

Why does Phillips still get picked time and time again?

First half of Scotland v Wales 2005 was the best 40 mins of rugby I've ever seen live.

More of that please?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Without this degenerating into a slagging match, can some of our Welsh bretheren enlighten me as to why Phillips gets starts and Williams does not?

Is Phillips living of a killer rep that he doesn't have anymore. I can say with absolute certainty that I would start Williams instead because he provides such crisp service to Wales fantastic attacking threats in the backs.

Why does Phillips still get picked time and time again?

Crisp service doesn't add anything to kick & chase bishbosh.

Having a massive scrumhalf does.

RubyGuby wrote:When I see little Laidlaw burst over for trys like Mike does then he can be spoken of in the same breath

Scotland don't need Laidlaw to be bursting over for tries if he's putting the team in a position for other players to score. They're very different players with different strengths.

Wouldn't you love to see what could happen if Williams and Hook for instance (Hook being a very competent distributor), provided quick ball on a silver platter for Roberts, JD2, North & Cuthbert?

You would crush just about any defence arrayed against you.

Casartelli wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Without this degenerating into a slagging match, can some of our Welsh bretheren enlighten me as to why Phillips gets starts and Williams does not?

Is Phillips living of a killer rep that he doesn't have anymore. I can say with absolute certainty that I would start Williams instead because he provides such crisp service to Wales fantastic attacking threats in the backs.

Why does Phillips still get picked time and time again?

Crisp service doesn't add anything to kick & chase bishbosh.

Having a massive scrumhalf does.

A month ago nearly every Welshman on here was saying that Bynmor's kid should be no where near the Blues let alone Wales and suddenly he is possibly a better option than Phillips for his faster service???

Phillips has been there an done it before, this is a big game, so is the one after. This welsh team need to do a hell of a lot to win this championship, they need to do a hell of a lot to hold on to second place.

Scotland is a huge challenge but one that Wales should be able to over come.

Wales can win this championship and it would be a huge result to do so.


Italy playing as they did vs Australia and France to beat England would be a great help though.

C'mon the Azzuri

Maest, don't you think a sharper, better passing 9 would get more out of your devestating backs?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Wouldn't you love to see what could happen if Williams and Hook for instance (Hook being a very competent distributor), provided quick ball on a silver platter for Roberts, JD2, North & Cuthbert?

Yep. Got trouser movement just thinking about it.

We haven't attempted that sort of lark since 2008 though, so unlikely to start any time soon.

I s'pose my question would be why.

Sure you won a grand slam last year and you have seemed to be "doing enough" to beat the NH opposition regularly.

It just seems to me that the coaches are really missing a trick. You have IMO the most devestating strike runners in NH rugby, perhaps excluding only Visser. North, Cuthbert and JD2 could punch some serious holes in defences when given quick clean ball.

If Halfpenny were to threaten the line a bit more I reckon he would be the best FB in the world too, it is his only real weakness and it's something he used to do a lot. Perhaps the Inclusion of Cuthbert and North has made him stand away from the line a bit more, which is a shame since he brings an alternative to the bish bash bosh gym monkey strike runners by being more elusive in the contact.

Casartelli wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Wouldn't you love to see what could happen if Williams and Hook for instance (Hook being a very competent distributor), provided quick ball on a silver platter for Roberts, JD2, North & Cuthbert?

Yep. Got trouser movement just thinking about it.

We haven't attempted that sort of lark since 2008 though, so unlikely to start any time soon.

Aye

And Byrne at fullback running decent lines, with Halfpenny at wing.

I don't disagree at all.

Have Biggar, Hook and Cuthbert done enough to get dropped?

Can we not play good rugby if we get good ball?

The game is overpowered by the set piece at the moment, it is hard for teams to open up when the pedantic incompetant IRB refereeing board encourage referees to concentrate so hard at the set piece.

A referee style with more empathy would do more than a change of personnel in my opinion.

Byrne hasn't done anything wrong, it's just theres no justification to drop any of our back 3. Sure we could get faster ball to the backs and we need to run more lines.

Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

maestegmafia wrote:
Can we not play good rugby if we get good ball?

Of course you can, and you have been. I have said numerous times Wales are my 2nd team. I have strong blood ties through my dad to Wales. He a is former Scrum Half himself says he has no Idea why Phillips keeps getting picked.

So tell you what, play Phillips next weekend, and when he get's manshamed pick the guy who can unleash those massive Welsh backs on the English

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I s'pose my question would be why.

Sure you won a grand slam last year and you have seemed to be "doing enough" to beat the NH opposition regularly.

It just seems to me that the coaches are really missing a trick. You have IMO the most devestating strike runners in NH rugby, perhaps excluding only Visser. North, Cuthbert and JD2 could punch some serious holes in defences when given quick clean ball.

If Halfpenny were to threaten the line a bit more I reckon he would be the best FB in the world too, it is his only real weakness and it's something he used to do a lot. Perhaps the Inclusion of Cuthbert and North has made him stand away from the line a bit more, which is a shame since he brings an alternative to the bish bash bosh gym monkey strike runners by being more elusive in the contact.

Rugger, you really need to be directing your very valid questions to Gatland & Howley.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

7, 9 and 12!

Bergamasco must be jealous haha.

Casartelli wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I s'pose my question would be why.

Sure you won a grand slam last year and you have seemed to be "doing enough" to beat the NH opposition regularly.

It just seems to me that the coaches are really missing a trick. You have IMO the most devestating strike runners in NH rugby, perhaps excluding only Visser. North, Cuthbert and JD2 could punch some serious holes in defences when given quick clean ball.

If Halfpenny were to threaten the line a bit more I reckon he would be the best FB in the world too, it is his only real weakness and it's something he used to do a lot. Perhaps the Inclusion of Cuthbert and North has made him stand away from the line a bit more, which is a shame since he brings an alternative to the bish bash bosh gym monkey strike runners by being more elusive in the contact.

Rugger, you really need to be directing your very valid questions to Gatland & Howley.

Halfpenny scored tries for fun on the wing. Lee Byrne is the best support runner I've ever seen in recent years.

Would love to aee Halfpenny at 10. He scored a wonderful length of the field try for the blues when in a stand off position.

He isn't that dissimilar to Shane Williams.

Not dissimilar to Shane...yes they are about the same height and build, that is as far as the similarities go

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Without this degenerating into a slagging match, can some of our Welsh bretheren enlighten me as to why Phillips gets starts and Williams does not?

Is Phillips living of a killer rep that he doesn't have anymore. I can say with absolute certainty that I would start Williams instead because he provides such crisp service to Wales fantastic attacking threats in the backs.

Why does Phillips still get picked time and time again?

Up until the past couple of games Williams has been seen as an absolute liability who is not an international scrum half - Factor in that other pretenders as well as Williams have flattered to deceive and we are left with Iron Mike; who through all the criticism is not 1/2 as bad as many are making out. In fact I'd go with Mike everytime at the moment as no one is consistently offering enough. I would have liked to have seen Dwayne Peel in the mix but am happy to have Mike as our 9. Gatland also likes 'em big and strong and lets face it, another Grand Slam and a RWC semi-final does not suggest that Phillips and his mates are doing too bad. I think many on here don't like him and then judge him from that.

And for what its worth I wouldn't swap Phillips for your scrum half in a month of Sundays - It's just that we differ here

RubyGuby wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Without this degenerating into a slagging match, can some of our Welsh bretheren enlighten me as to why Phillips gets starts and Williams does not?

Is Phillips living of a killer rep that he doesn't have anymore. I can say with absolute certainty that I would start Williams instead because he provides such crisp service to Wales fantastic attacking threats in the backs.

Why does Phillips still get picked time and time again?

Up until the past couple of games Williams has been seen as an absolute liability who is not an international scrum half - Factor in that other pretenders as well as Williams have flattered to deceive and we are left with Iron Mike; who through all the criticism is not 1/2 as bad as many are making out. In fact I'd go with Mike everytime at the moment as no one is consistently offering enough. I would have liked to have seen Dwayne Peel in the mix but am happy to have Mike as our 9. Gatland also likes 'em big and strong and lets face it, another Grand Slam and a RWC semi-final does not suggest that Phillips and his mates are doing too bad. I think many on here don't like him and then judge him from that.

And for what its worth I wouldn't swap Phillips for your scrum half in a month of Sundays - It's just that we differ here

Yes bit of realism needed.

Nothing for 3 decades and then we get 3 slams in 7 years (two with same coach). And a total of 8 points spread over two matches away from a slam in 2009.

As you said RWC semi final
Sevens world cup
4 celtic leagues by ospreys

Under 20's beat new Zealand and are unbeaten this year.

It's a pretty good time to be Welsh.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Without this degenerating into a slagging match, can some of our Welsh bretheren enlighten me as to why Phillips gets starts and Williams does not?

Is Phillips living of a killer rep that he doesn't have anymore. I can say with absolute certainty that I would start Williams instead because he provides such crisp service to Wales fantastic attacking threats in the backs.

Why does Phillips still get picked time and time again?

Up until the past couple of games Williams has been seen as an absolute liability who is not an international scrum half - Factor in that other pretenders as well as Williams have flattered to deceive and we are left with Iron Mike; who through all the criticism is not 1/2 as bad as many are making out. In fact I'd go with Mike everytime at the moment as no one is consistently offering enough. I would have liked to have seen Dwayne Peel in the mix but am happy to have Mike as our 9. Gatland also likes 'em big and strong and lets face it, another Grand Slam and a RWC semi-final does not suggest that Phillips and his mates are doing too bad. I think many on here don't like him and then judge him from that.

And for what its worth I wouldn't swap Phillips for your scrum half in a month of Sundays - It's just that we differ here

Yes bit of realism needed.

Nothing for 3 decades and then we get 3 slams in 7 years (two with same coach). And a total of 8 points spread over two matches away from a slam in 2009.

As you said RWC semi final
Sevens world cup
4 celtic leagues by ospreys

Under 20's beat new Zealand and are unbeaten this year.

It's a pretty good time to be Welsh.

AND Catherine Zeta Jones was quite good in Broken City.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

Gary Armstrong was a cracking inside centre.

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

Gary Armstrong was a cracking inside centre.

Crap commentator though.He makes View seem neutral and balanced!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

Gary Armstrong was a cracking inside centre.

Crap commentator though.He makes View seem neutral and balanced!

I thought he was a farmer now? Who's he commentating for????

Armstrong and Phillips are similar Scrum Halfs but you Scots are happy to eulogise about Gary

Armstrong ditributed well.

My favourite Scottish scrum half has been Cusiter, he is fantastic it's just a shame he has been plagued with injuries.

maestegmafia wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

Gary Armstrong was a cracking inside centre.

Crap commentator though.He makes View seem neutral and balanced!

I thought he was a farmer now? Who's he commentating for????

Occasionally chips in for the Beeb.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Phillips playing 12 in lions third test was awesome to watch.

In compliment to him I can't think of any other scrum half in the world who could play 12 against the Boks and look comfortable.

Gary Armstrong was a cracking inside centre.

Crap commentator though.He makes View seem neutral and balanced!

I thought he was a farmer now? Who's he commentating for????

Occasionally chips in for the Beeb.

Senior moment alert !that would be Andy Nichol

I should also add I think Laidlaw has the chance to become a fantastic Scrum Half if he is not moved around the half back positions too much.

I would issue and order from the SRU to Edinburgh to play Laidlaw at 9 instead of 10.

We don't want to turn him int another Paterson, being a jack of all trades and master of none.

I think Scotland would have had a lot more success recently if the halfback partnership of Blair/Cusiter & Paterson at 10 was left to gel.

Williams? Hook? Byrne?

What are you guys on about???

Just because Williams is quick to the breakdown doesn't mean his delivery is any good, it is awfull, and he all but kills off back play single handedly!!

Hook will never make an international 10 any more, he's been shoe horned into too many positions, been made to think he's an impact player and tries too hard constantly.

And Byrnes game at CA is squarley based around his booming left boot, his form is dependant on forward domination and space out wide, neither of these Wales can provide!!!

I despair that a team finally winning again and you want to rip the heart and soul out of the backline!!!??

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I should also add I think Laidlaw has the chance to become a fantastic Scrum Half if he is not moved around the half back positions too much.

I would issue and order from the SRU to Edinburgh to play Laidlaw at 9 instead of 10.

We don't want to turn him int another Paterson, being a jack of all trades and master of none.

I think Scotland would have had a lot more success recently if the halfback partnership of Blair/Cusiter & Paterson at 10 was left to gel.

Is that ex blues scrum half still at Edinburgh?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Williams? Hook? Byrne?

What are you guys on about???

Just because Williams is quick to the breakdown doesn't mean his delivery is any good, it is awfull, and he all but kills off back play single handedly!!

Hook will never make an international 10 any more, he's been shoe horned into too many positions, been made to think he's an impact player and tries too hard constantly.

And Byrnes game at CA is squarley based around his booming left boot, his form is dependant on forward domination and space out wide, neither of these Wales can provide!!!

I despair that a team finally winning again and you want to rip the heart and soul out of the backline!!!??

Williams passing has been excellent in the last three games, Hooks play at flyhalf for USAP has been great and Byrnes running angles are beautiful and regularly used for CA.