Wales team for Murrayfield???

by maestegmafia Mon 25 Feb 2013, 8:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here's the Wales team then:-

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (C), Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau.

REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Scott Andrews, Ryan Bevington, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams.

Sam Warburton, Paul James and Alun Wynn in, Andrews and Bevington on the bench.

Surprised to see Warburton given his place over Tipuric, I guess Gethin is out injured.

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:07 pm

Back to the initial point, I don't think Gethin or PJ are any less likely to get penalised by a poor ref.

We are lucky that we have some good options on both sides and hooker to bring on if the ref is penalising in necessarily.

by dragonbreath Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:07 pm

[quote="Captain_Sensible"]

dragonbreath wrote:
TJ wrote:Phillips? Will he really play? I look forward to Laidlaw showing him up for the slow donkey he is. laidlaw will harass him ( and then hide behind Hamilton when Philips loses it )

And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots. Laidlaw is an absolute liability in defence. Some people touting him a Lions captain, I do like a laugh but come on

Laidlaw's playing at 9, not 10. Do try to keep up. When was the last time you saw him get brushed off a cover tackle at 9? [/quote/]

Sorry I didn't realise that his tackling was only crap when he played 10. Where exactly was this tackling Tiger when the Irish midfield were bursting through the 10 channel, The only reason he was not trampled was that instead of covering he was hiding somewhere waving them through. A good scrum half is at least in position to make a tackle Laidlaw was nowhere to be seen.

"Do try and keep up". You are a real comedian. Stick to jokes because you clearly don't know wht you are talking about

by RubyGuby Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:07 pm

For England:

James Hibbard Adam
Ianto AWJ
Ryan Toby Tipuric thumbsup

by dragonbreath Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:10 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

by flyhalffactory Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:13 pm

Good Morning Bretheren

What a great post, I always thought Howley was an astute clever player, and learned alot when he was with Gatland/Edwards with Wasps and then did ok at Cardiff, before studying under the dynamic duo at international level. The Welsh team did ok down under and but for a few calls here and there could have won the series..... so always bemused when I saw the vitriol posts from the Welsh posters on here of his selections and strategy which to be honest are not much different at the moment. They certainly are in a prime position to face off to England to halt the 'slam'.

Selection-wise (from a Scotland viewpoint) I would want Howely to pick

James over Jenkins
Hibbard over Owen
AWJ over Coombes

I might be in the minority here but I thought that Gethin had one of his best games for about a year last week, scrummaged pretty well against Castrogiovanni particularly in the first half. Hibbard whilst he didnt have a bad game was under pressure on the throw in (losing first 3 out of 5) and against Gray / Hamilton its going to be a totally different proposition, I also thought Owen was quicker around the loose play and the breakdown.

Coombs brought a calmness and assurance that is missing when you bring AWJ into the 4-5 channel, Jones certainly didnt bring anything extra to the play when he came on and is a penalty machine under pressure.

There is not much in it however and James/AWJ if brought in will do a good job.

Some interesting stats below, (when you take into account the massive 75/25 ratio of territory, possess, rucks in favour of the Irish when you critque our game)

Italy Wales
56% 44% Possession
58% 42% Territory
6 (0) 12 (0) Scrums won (lost)
12 (0 11(2) Line-outs won (lost)
10 9 Pens conceded
88 58 Rucks won
80 (8) 132 (7) Tackles made (missed)
1 2 Line breaks
103 75 Ball carries
304 224 Metres made

The ruck certainly is going to be a vital area of contention, if we can be competitive there we might have a chance

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:14 pm

RubyGuby wrote:For England:

James Hibbard Adam
Ianto AWJ
Ryan Toby Tipuric

Lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet but I see your point re the pack and who we need to be ready for what should be the toughest match.

That said, I am sure, as in previous games, that the front row will rotate and allow time to get bench players up to pace.

My larger concern than Props is who is our back up hooker??? Owens has not been his charismatic self of late...

by RubyGuby Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:16 pm

Genlaw

by RubyGuby Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:17 pm

Owens has played well IMO - Its a no brainer for me - Hibbard and Owens thumbsup

by flyhalffactory Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:25 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:For England:

James Hibbard Adam
Ianto AWJ
Ryan Toby Tipuric

Lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet but I see your point re the pack and who we need to be ready for what should be the toughest match.

That said, I am sure, as in previous games, that the front row will rotate and allow time to get bench players up to pace.

My larger concern than Props is who is our back up hooker??? Owens has not been his charismatic self of late...

Maes old bean hope you (and the missus) enjoyed your Italian adventure

Its not only your some of your fellow posters who are taking their eye off the ball, you have Ruddock, Edwards, and JPR all posting in various media about how Wales "can stop the English juggernaut's "slam dunk" and at the same time win the championship themselves"..... not alot about your NEXT match.

Keep it up it boys, and we will prepare quietly and professionally for the next game

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:27 pm

Hi FHF...!

Got rush off half way through reading your post.

Will check it out later. Hope all is well mate.

Maes

by dragonbreath Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:28 pm

RubyGuby wrote: Maj Warburton made no difference coming on but at that stage of the game and in those conditions no one could have. Tipuric needs to keep the jersey as he's done nothing to lose it after 2 impressive victories

Tips has done nothing wrong, but at the same time it is not clear what he does as a starter that Sam doesn't do equally as well. He does however have considerable impact as a replacement later in the game when it breaks up. Sam's introduction from the bench does not have anywhere near the same effect. My point is, that when Tips starts the match he gets taken out of the game (as is the modern fancy) at the very point in proceedings when he is actually most effective.

It seems unfair but in teams of the effectiveness of the team I would start Sam and bring Tips off the bench for maximum impact

by Casartelli Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:37 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Hi FHF...!

Got rush off half way through reading your post.

Will check it out later. Hope all is well mate.

Maes

It is a long one, even by FHF standards! Some astute percentages, as always from the Big Man. Not sure about the second-row analysis though.

I appreciate a calm and assured lock forward as much as the next man, but at the business end of the season, against a powerful Scottish pack (and with the English 'juggernaut' on the horizon!) there's a case for playing the second row who is 3 inches taller and 2 stones heavier.

by flyhalffactory Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm

Good afternoon Cas

Hell it was a long one, but I am just balancing the one liners of some of the Welsh posters!!...... and at the end of the day it is a debating board not a goading board if you know what I mean

Its all about the rucks and mauls at the mo, and I thought Coombs was 6 4 and 17 1/4 st, compared to AWJ 6 6 and 18 1/2st....... and alot quicker around the park.

Plus I thought he had a better game than AWJ last week

by pioden gorllewin Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:08 pm

interesting the public voting on the performance of the welsh team so far in this tournament is:

Ryan Jones: 8.15

Leigh Halfpenny: 8.10

Justin Tipuric: 7.40

Toby Faletau: 7.07

Andrew Coombs: 6.90

Ian Evans: 6.86

Richard Hibbard: 6.75

Adam Jones: 6.65

Lloyd Williams: 6.42

Mike Phillips: 6.25

George North: 6.22

Alex Cuthbert: 6.20

Gethin Jenkins: 6.09

Dan Biggar: 6.01

Jonathan Davies: 5.70

Jamie Roberts: 5.31

Significant others

Ken Owens: 6.69

Alun Wyn Jones: 6.65

James Hook: 5.70

Sam Warburton: 5.12

our centre pairing had the lowest score from the public....think they've really struggled this tournament. Can't see JR being dropped but his performance in italy was pretty poor. Would anyone consider brining in scott williams, ashley beck (if fit) against scotland? or will we just use roberts to target the 10 channel?

by Casartelli Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:11 pm

This certainly has the potential to be a cracker of a game, excitement wise at least. Can't see it being a festival of champagne rugby.

From a Welsh perspective I think starting with the 'lightweight' trio of Tipuric, Faletau and Coombs won't be enough against Scotland. It certainly won't against England. I'd play Lydiate if he's fit, or Warburton and Ryan either side of Faletau if he isn't. With AWJ in 2nd row regardless.

by 100%beefy Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:12 pm

fhf why are you so obsessed with what the welsh posters write, if you are so senstiive why don't you just ignore them? thumbsup

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:15 pm

[quote="dragonbreath"]

Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
TJ wrote:Phillips? Will he really play? I look forward to Laidlaw showing him up for the slow donkey he is. laidlaw will harass him ( and then hide behind Hamilton when Philips loses it )

And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots. Laidlaw is an absolute liability in defence. Some people touting him a Lions captain, I do like a laugh but come on

Laidlaw's playing at 9, not 10. Do try to keep up. When was the last time you saw him get brushed off a cover tackle at 9? [/quote/]

Sorry I didn't realise that his tackling was only crap when he played 10. Where exactly was this tackling Tiger when the Irish midfield were bursting through the 10 channel, The only reason he was not trampled was that instead of covering he was hiding somewhere waving them through. A good scrum half is at least in position to make a tackle Laidlaw was nowhere to be seen.

"Do try and keep up". You are a real comedian. Stick to jokes because you clearly don't know wht you are talking about

Well, I was trying to keep things light-hearted, but ok, you'll try to be chippy. Fine.

Laidlaw, funnily enough, wasn't tackling in the 10 channel because he wasn't playing at 10. He was covering the fringes or sweeping behind, like all 9s do. The poor tackling came from Ruaridh Jackson, who was actually playing at 10. Understand?

Laidlaw's a wee man, he does get run over when he plays at 10, just like Matthew Morgan does for the Ospreys. But, Laidlaw's playing at 9, where his cover defense is excellent. If you can't understand the difference in defensive positioning/tackling between 9 and 10, you haven't watched enough rugby.

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:17 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

by Casartelli Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:18 pm

pioden gorllewin wrote:interesting the public voting on the performance of the welsh team so far in this tournament is:

Adam Jones: 6.65

..............

Significant others

Alun Wyn Jones: 6.65

.............

Spooky.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:21 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:25 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

I find it interesting that the original poster was looking forward to watching Mike Phillips run over Laidlaw. That is one of Wales' biggest problems at the moment - Phillips takes it upon himself to make hard yards, gets buried at the bottom of a ruck which means that any attacking momentum is lost through poor service to the rest of the backline. Either that, or he takes an age to pass the ball out from the base, giving the oppo defence plenty of time to get settled. I really don't rate Phillips at all, basically.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:31 pm

I don't rate Phillips either.

As I said previously though he is one of Wales' greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses. It would be nice to have a Scrum half of Phillips proportions, however Phillips lacks the basic skill sets of a Scrum half, his passing is slow and innacurate, he doesn't harrass opposition scrum halfs very well and he doesn't play heads up rugby.

However what he does somethimes do is he keeps opposition fly halfs and Scrum halves honest. Because he is a decent carrier he can sometimes draw the defences attention away from the other big Welsh units (Roberts, Cuthbert, JD2 & North) the problem is he hasn't done that effectively this season, wheras last season he did and the Welsh backline had more space ergo more cutting edge.

by Casartelli Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:36 pm

pioden gorllewin wrote:interesting the public voting on the performance of the welsh team so far in this tournament is:

Ryan Jones: 8.15

Leigh Halfpenny: 8.10

Justin Tipuric: 7.40

Toby Faletau: 7.07

Andrew Coombs: 6.90

Ian Evans: 6.86

Richard Hibbard: 6.75

Adam Jones: 6.65

Lloyd Williams: 6.42

Mike Phillips: 6.25

George North: 6.22

Alex Cuthbert: 6.20

Gethin Jenkins: 6.09

Dan Biggar: 6.01

Jonathan Davies: 5.70

Jamie Roberts: 5.31

Significant others

Ken Owens: 6.69

Alun Wyn Jones: 6.65

James Hook: 5.70

Sam Warburton: 5.12

our centre pairing had the lowest score from the public....think they've really struggled this tournament. Can't see JR being dropped but his performance in italy was pretty poor. Would anyone consider brining in scott williams, ashley beck (if fit) against scotland? or will we just use roberts to target the 10 channel?

Public don't know s**t. Tipuric 7.40??? Presumably he amassed that score as a sub against Ireland, as he hasn't been seen since.

What do 'the public' expect of Roberts and JD2? The gameplan is that they defend and (Roberts primarily) smash it up when we have the ball. As far as I can recall they have been solid in defence, have got 'over the gainline' and, as a bonus, have even thrown passes that resulted in tries.

Okay, Roberts has dropped a few and JD2 has thrown a couple into Row Z, but we should count our blessings that we have a defensively strong midfield. If our 2nd and back rows were as strong in the tackle as Roberts and JD then we'd be laughing.

by flyhalffactory Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:44 pm

100%beefy wrote:fhf why are you so obsessed with what the welsh posters write, if you are so senstiive why don't you just ignore them?

ok

by BlueNote Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:53 pm

"It would be nice to have a Scrum half of Phillips proportions" - That was Terry Holmes.

It really worries me that people are focusing so much on the England game, how often have we been able to go up to Murrayfield and be confident of a win? This Scotland team can't be taken lightly.

We won't get many games where the scrum plays as big a part as in Italy on the weekend. If he's fit, I think Geth shades it, but I wouldn't be that disappointed to see PJ.

What worries me most of all is the lineout. I think I'd bring AWJ back in for that more than anything else, well though Coombs has played.

I'd still keep Tips over Warburton, but again would be reasonably happy with either. I would mind if Warbs replaced Ryan Jones.

I'd keep the centres, but I'd like to see Scott Williams on earlier to give him a chance to make an impact.

by flyhalffactory Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:53 pm

Casartelli wrote:
pioden gorllewin wrote:interesting the public voting on the performance of the welsh team so far in this tournament is:

Ryan Jones: 8.15

Leigh Halfpenny: 8.10

Justin Tipuric: 7.40

Toby Faletau: 7.07

Andrew Coombs: 6.90

Ian Evans: 6.86

Richard Hibbard: 6.75

Adam Jones: 6.65

Lloyd Williams: 6.42

Mike Phillips: 6.25

George North: 6.22

Alex Cuthbert: 6.20

Gethin Jenkins: 6.09

Dan Biggar: 6.01

Jonathan Davies: 5.70

Jamie Roberts: 5.31

Significant others

Ken Owens: 6.69

Alun Wyn Jones: 6.65

James Hook: 5.70

Sam Warburton: 5.12

our centre pairing had the lowest score from the public....think they've really struggled this tournament. Can't see JR being dropped but his performance in italy was pretty poor. Would anyone consider brining in scott williams, ashley beck (if fit) against scotland? or will we just use roberts to target the 10 channel?

Public don't know s**t. Tipuric 7.40??? Presumably he amassed that score as a sub against Ireland, as he hasn't been seen since.

What do 'the public' expect of Roberts and JD2? The gameplan is that they defend and (Roberts primarily) smash it up when we have the ball. As far as I can recall they have been solid in defence, have got 'over the gainline' and, as a bonus, have even thrown passes that resulted in tries.

Okay, Roberts has dropped a few and JD2 has thrown a couple into Row Z, but we should count our blessings that we have a defensively strong midfield. If our 2nd and back rows were as strong in the tackle as Roberts and JD then we'd be laughing.

Spot on Cas

The "public" was possibly the very biased "Western (Eastern) Fail", it was quite clear that the welsh midfield weren't going to have much of the ball.

Jamie Roberts who was a defensive giant 5.31 , Jon Davies scores a try, and does a very decent defensive job and scores a 5.70, Faletau who had a quiet game 7.07 and Hook who didnt do alot lets be honest had 5.70!!

by Dontheman Tue 26 Feb 2013, 1:56 pm

Glas a du wrote:15-9 Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Phillips
1-8 James, Hibbard, Jones, Jones, Evans, Jones, Tipuric, Faletau
16-23 Jenkins, Owens, Mitchell, Coombes, Warburton, Williams, Hook, Williams.

Sorry, not very imaginative.

Jenkins at hooker that's very imaginative Very Happy

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 2:17 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:For England:

James Hibbard Adam
Ianto AWJ
Ryan Toby Tipuric

Lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet but I see your point re the pack and who we need to be ready for what should be the toughest match.

That said, I am sure, as in previous games, that the front row will rotate and allow time to get bench players up to pace.

My larger concern than Props is who is our back up hooker??? Owens has not been his charismatic self of late...

Maes old bean hope you (and the missus) enjoyed your Italian adventure

Its not only your some of your fellow posters who are taking their eye off the ball, you have Ruddock, Edwards, and JPR all posting in various media about how Wales "can stop the English juggernaut's "slam dunk" and at the same time win the championship themselves"..... not alot about your NEXT match.

Keep it up it boys, and we will prepare quietly and professionally for the next game

Edwards thinks England will take the grand slam. Something about all the other sides being in transition and it being an easy one...!

What they write in the papers and what goes on in the world are two very alternative realities not worth dwelling on.

by dragonbreath Tue 26 Feb 2013, 2:52 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

And still it goes on.

Saying that Genia and Laidlaw have the same style of play is meaningless when the difference in the quality of execution is so obvious. Genia was a better player than Laidlaw when he was 8 years old. He was certainly a better tackler. Laidlaw will not test Phillips unless he asks him some really tough Maths questions.

Look we all say stupid things sometimes, but don't make it worse by trying to defend it. picard

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:05 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

And still it goes on.

Saying that Genia and Laidlaw have the same style of play is meaningless when the difference in the quality of execution is so obvious. Genia was a better player than Laidlaw when he was 8 years old. He was certainly a better tackler. Laidlaw will not test Phillips unless he asks him some really tough Maths questions.

Look we all say stupid things sometimes, but don't make it worse by trying to defend it.

No, you've still missed the point. Laidlaw and Genia both play a running game with some sharp tactical kicking and breaks around the fringe. One is better than the other, but the styles are the same. Think of cars - Volkswagon and Mercedes both make saloon cars. They are both the same style of car, but one is better than the other. Not hard to grasp, really.

Phillips doesn't play that kind of game. And he doesn't tend to play well when put up against this kind of game. If you can't recognise that Laidlaw will provide a tough test for Phillips, then fine. If you can't understand a sport you love, I think that's a bit sad.

You still haven't addressed my point about Laidlaw's tackling at 9, by the way.

by Glas a du Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:08 pm

Think of cars - Volkswagon and Mercedes both make saloon cars. They are both the same style of car, but one is better than the other. Not hard to grasp, really.

Mercedes drivers are going to be very upset...

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:10 pm

Glas a du wrote:
Think of cars - Volkswagon and Mercedes both make saloon cars. They are both the same style of car, but one is better than the other. Not hard to grasp, really.

Mercedes drivers are going to be very upset...

He he he. Not a perfect analogy, but it serves its purpose.

by Morgannwg Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:21 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:

Italy Wales
56% 44% Possession
58% 42% Territory
6 (0) 12 (0) Scrums won (lost)
12 (0 11(2) Line-outs won (lost)
10 9 Pens conceded
88 58 Rucks won
80 (8) 132 (7) Tackles made (missed)
1 2 Line breaks
103 75 Ball carries
304 224 Metres made

The ruck certainly is going to be a vital area of contention, if we can be competitive there we might have a chance

Scrum stats seem a bit off. And BTW, if Poite had refereed that area correctly it would read that Italy lost two. Castro and the Italian scrum are so overrated. I think that match was good practice for playing Scotland, and I would like to see us chuck it about a bit more. So i'm for Scott Williams to start. Despite the fact he can't pass he does always look to run the ball. Set moves (if he isn't being used as a crashball merchant) would probably miss him straight to JD2 with Halfpenny on his shoulder. That's a good point, why are Wales not going through the set moves we last executed against Australia?

by **George Carlin** Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:45 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

And still it goes on.

Saying that Genia and Laidlaw have the same style of play is meaningless when the difference in the quality of execution is so obvious. Genia was a better player than Laidlaw when he was 8 years old. He was certainly a better tackler. Laidlaw will not test Phillips unless he asks him some really tough Maths questions.

Look we all say stupid things sometimes, but don't make it worse by trying to defend it.

Come, come Dragon - let's not be coy. It seems from your posts that you say stupid things with a commendable regularity.

I am fascinated. Either you don't understand that Philips can suffer against players with faster brains, faster feet and propensity to clear ball away more quickly (having been humiliated by Genia three matches in succession only a year ago) or you do understand it, but your bromance with young Michael will not let you utter it. I am willing to believe that it's either. Wales team for Murrayfield??? - Page 2 1347041234

Wales team for Murrayfield??? - Page 2 1347041234

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:47 pm

George Carlin wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

And still it goes on.

Saying that Genia and Laidlaw have the same style of play is meaningless when the difference in the quality of execution is so obvious. Genia was a better player than Laidlaw when he was 8 years old. He was certainly a better tackler. Laidlaw will not test Phillips unless he asks him some really tough Maths questions.

Look we all say stupid things sometimes, but don't make it worse by trying to defend it.
Come, come Dragon - let's not be coy. It seems from your posts that you say stupid things with a commendable regularity.

I am fascinated. Either you don't understand that Philips can suffer against players with faster brains, faster feet and propensity to clear ball away more quickly (having been humiliated by Genia three matches in succession only a year ago) or you do understand it, but your bromance with young Michael will not let you utter it. I am willing to believe that it's either.

Let the psycho-analysis begin!

by RubyGuby Tue 26 Feb 2013, 3:54 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:For England:

James Hibbard Adam
Ianto AWJ
Ryan Toby Tipuric

Lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet but I see your point re the pack and who we need to be ready for what should be the toughest match.

That said, I am sure, as in previous games, that the front row will rotate and allow time to get bench players up to pace.

My larger concern than Props is who is our back up hooker??? Owens has not been his charismatic self of late...

Maes old bean hope you (and the missus) enjoyed your Italian adventure

No one will be underestimating Scotland and they will be taken as seriously as any other nation FHF - In fact perhaps moreso considering they are going into this as favourites at home. You are a little touchy which is perhaps revealing in itself.

Its not only your some of your fellow posters who are taking their eye off the ball, you have Ruddock, Edwards, and JPR all posting in various media about how Wales "can stop the English juggernaut's "slam dunk" and at the same time win the championship themselves"..... not alot about your NEXT match.

Keep it up it boys, and we will prepare quietly and professionally for the next game

by dragonbreath Tue 26 Feb 2013, 4:13 pm

George Carlin wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

And still it goes on.

Saying that Genia and Laidlaw have the same style of play is meaningless when the difference in the quality of execution is so obvious. Genia was a better player than Laidlaw when he was 8 years old. He was certainly a better tackler. Laidlaw will not test Phillips unless he asks him some really tough Maths questions.

Look we all say stupid things sometimes, but don't make it worse by trying to defend it.
Come, come Dragon - let's not be coy. It seems from your posts that you say stupid things with a commendable regularity.

I am fascinated. Either you don't understand that Philips can suffer against players with faster brains, faster feet and propensity to clear ball away more quickly (having been humiliated by Genia three matches in succession only a year ago) or you do understand it, but your bromance with young Michael will not let you utter it. I am willing to believe that it's either.

Are you still banging on about Genia. Genia's dominance of Phillips has nothing to do with Laidlaw. How many times does this need repeating before it sinks in. Laidlaw is not in Genia's class and is not capable of dominating Phillips

It's like explaining something to a child.

by Glas a du Tue 26 Feb 2013, 4:14 pm

MODS - can we limit replies to say 4 or 5, these massive arguments where every previous limb is retained really are terrible.

by **George Carlin** Tue 26 Feb 2013, 4:20 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots.

Just like he did to Genia.... we all know Phillips struggles with pure Scrum halves. Call this his test for the England game, if he can keep Laidlaw quiet he'll have a chance against Youngs the following week.

All 6N Phillips is yet to come up against a classy and intelligent player at 9, he was extremely lucky to avoid Parra in France but has yet to be tested by a Genia style rapid, and quick thinking Scrummy.

Now someone is comparing Laidlaw to Genia as if they were equals? This really is quite amusing

Nope, just comparing their style of play. Do try to keep up.

Yep, thanks Captain. Not once did I say Genia & Laidlaw are equals, that would be stupid. I did say their style of play is similar. In truth the only Scrum Half better than Genia IMO is Parra, who I think is the best in the world.

Phillips has not come up against a Scrum half yet in the 6N who plays with the same kind of Vision, accuracy and guile yet. His 2 biggest tests will be Laidlaw next week and Youngs the week after.

And still it goes on.

Saying that Genia and Laidlaw have the same style of play is meaningless when the difference in the quality of execution is so obvious. Genia was a better player than Laidlaw when he was 8 years old. He was certainly a better tackler. Laidlaw will not test Phillips unless he asks him some really tough Maths questions.

Look we all say stupid things sometimes, but don't make it worse by trying to defend it.
Come, come Dragon - let's not be coy. It seems from your posts that you say stupid things with a commendable regularity.

I am fascinated. Either you don't understand that Philips can suffer against players with faster brains, faster feet and propensity to clear ball away more quickly (having been humiliated by Genia three matches in succession only a year ago) or you do understand it, but your bromance with young Michael will not let you utter it. I am willing to believe that it's either.

Are you still banging on about Genia. Genia's dominance of Phillips has nothing to do with Laidlaw. How many times does this need repeating before it sinks in. Laidlaw is not in Genia's class and is not capable of dominating Phillips

It's like explaining something to a child.

Would you like someone to sit with you?

by Captain_Sensible Tue 26 Feb 2013, 4:21 pm

dragonbreath wrote: Are you still banging on about Genia. Genia's dominance of Phillips has nothing to do with Laidlaw. How many times does this need repeating before it sinks in. Laidlaw is not in Genia's class and is not capable of dominating Phillips

It's like explaining something to a child.

Not banging on about Genia at all, just patiently explaining that Phillips often struggles when faced with a quick, intelligent scrum half. Laidlaw plays exactly this type of game, and I'd expect him to do pretty well versus Big Mike, who is, as far as I can tell, just big and not much else. You don't seem to be able to grasp a simple analogy, which is worrying.

Would you like to answer my point about Laidlaw's cover tackling at 9?

PS, sorry for the extended posts, Glas. I've tried to limit this one and quote with more brevity.

by Glas a du Tue 26 Feb 2013, 4:35 pm

Cheers

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 5:55 pm

Glas a du wrote:
Think of cars - Volkswagon and Mercedes both make saloon cars. They are both the same style of car, but one is better than the other. Not hard to grasp, really.

Mercedes drivers are going to be very upset...

I am very upset... I have owned, in fact i think we still own a VW... Only drive the Mercedes though...!

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 6:29 pm

From the BBC

Always looking ahead...!!!

Mike Ruddock says Wales are capable of scuppering England's Grand Slam hopes.
Ruddock, Wales' Grand Slam-winning coach in 2005, has been impressed with Stuart Lancaster's unbeaten side.
But he insists England will not have it all their own way when they face Wales in the Six Nations finale at the Millennium Stadium on 16 March.
"As good as England are at the moment the real test for them will be going down to Cardiff to try and get a result," he said.
"I think Stuart Lancaster's done a fantastic job and there are some good coaches around him.
"Having said that Wales always pick their game up against English teams and particularly in Cardiff."
Play media

Scrum V meets England's biggest fan
After losing to Ireland in their opening game, Wales are second in the Six Nations after back to back wins in France and Italy.
And Ruddock, who now coaches Ireland Under-20s, says interim coach Rob Howley has selection headaches before naming the side to face Scotland at Murrayfield on 9 March.
Captain Sam Warburton is back in contention for the penultimate game after featuring as a substitute in the 26-9 victory over Italy in Rome.
But with Ospreys flanker Justin Tipuric impressing in the opening matches, Ruddock concedes Howley is doing the right thing in biding his time over the next team selection.
"It just depends on how Rob would want to use those guys and obviously at the expense of who goes out and who drops out," Ruddock added.
"Those are the sort of things that perhaps a little bit of time and a little bit of debate with his other coaches will be useful.
"It's good coaching policy not to ignore all of your options and not rush into anything this week."

by bedfordwelsh Tue 26 Feb 2013, 7:00 pm

If we play Tipuric against England then we have to also play a game that suits his style.

If we don't then I think Robshaw will have a field day against him.

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 7:51 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:If we play Tipuric against England then we have to also play a game that suits his style.

If we don't then I think Robshaw will have a field day against him.

Would you prefer Howley to pick Warburton over Tipuric this time round?

by Taffineastbourne Tue 26 Feb 2013, 7:59 pm

I tend to think that talk about the England game is disrespectful to the Scots.
They are a major obstacle and at home they demand our full attention.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:06 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If we play Tipuric against England then we have to also play a game that suits his style.

If we don't then I think Robshaw will have a field day against him.

Would you prefer Howley to pick Warburton over Tipuric this time round?

Thats a good and tricky question Maes damn you lol Hug

Tipuric is the form 7 IMO and has done nothing wrong in so far but if our tactics or gameplan is wrong and we end up getting into an arm wrestle with England then like I said I think Robshaw would have a filed day against Tipuric.

by TJ1 Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:16 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
TJ wrote:Phillips? Will he really play? I look forward to Laidlaw showing him up for the slow donkey he is. laidlaw will harass him ( and then hide behind Hamilton when Philips loses it )

And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots. Laidlaw is an absolute liability in defence. Some people touting him a Lions captain, I do like a laugh but come on

Have you seen him play? I think you are going to be surprised. made 18 tackles missed 5 or something like that so far this 6N.

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:20 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:If we play Tipuric against England then we have to also play a game that suits his style.

If we don't then I think Robshaw will have a field day against him.

Would you prefer Howley to pick Warburton over Tipuric this time round?

Thats a good and tricky question Maes damn you lol Tipuric is the form 7 IMO and has done nothing wrong in so far but if our tactics or gameplan is wrong and we end up getting into an arm wrestle with England then like I said I think Robshaw would have a filed day against Tipuric.

It would be Wood that concerns me far more than Robshaw. Re the Welsh lads well, its just great to have these options isn't it. Our tactics and game plan are working for us, despite their predictability and their inane monotony for us fans.

I imagine that as with the props, the backrow will be given time and opportunity against the Scots.

Warburton has to play himself back in to the team, as you have reminded us before, he hasn't shown anything to prove he is better than Tipuric, especially after the impact Tips had in the second half vs Ireland

by maestegmafia Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:23 pm

TJ wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
TJ wrote:Phillips? Will he really play? I look forward to Laidlaw showing him up for the slow donkey he is. laidlaw will harass him ( and then hide behind Hamilton when Philips loses it )

And I look forward to Mike running right over the top of him and scrapping him off his boots. Laidlaw is an absolute liability in defence. Some people touting him a Lions captain, I do like a laugh but come on

Have you seen him play? I think you are going to be surprised. made 18 tackles missed 5 or something like that so far this 6N.

So you are saying he misses over 1 in 5 tackles ?

Could be one of the reasons Scotland's defensive record was so poor against Ireland.

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