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Who will the English fans and media blame if England dont win the Brazil 2014 World Cup?

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Scrumpy
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Who will the English fans and media blame if England dont win the Brazil 2014 World Cup? Vote_lcap23%Who will the English fans and media blame if England dont win the Brazil 2014 World Cup? Vote_rcap 23% 
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Total Votes : 13
 
 

Who will the English fans and media blame if England dont win the Brazil 2014 World Cup? Empty Who will the English fans and media blame if England dont win the Brazil 2014 World Cup?

Post by Steffan Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:18 pm

Just a quick poll to see who you think the English fans and media will blame if they dont win it

My money is on Roy Hodgson


Cheers

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Post by JamesLincs Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:28 pm

was it really 1958 the last time you qualified for a world cup?

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Post by Y I Man Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:31 pm

Laugh 

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Post by Steffan Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:31 pm

JamesLincs wrote:was it really 1958 the last time you qualified for a world cup?
Yes. Why?

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Post by Duty281 Wed 16 Oct 2013, 2:14 pm

Since we don't expect to win the World Cup, perhaps you should ask "who would we blame if we didn't reach the quarter-finals?".

For that is probably the aim.

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Post by MIG Wed 16 Oct 2013, 2:29 pm

If Hodgson balls up his selection or tactics then yes he'll get some blame.  If he picks Lampard and Gerrard and it doesn't work then yes that will get some of the blame.  I don't really see the point of this its like trying to predict who will get sent off in a game.
I think most fans are just happy to see England qualify and the majority are expecting to get to the knockout rounds and hope for a bit of luck from then on.  Don't think anyone will really blame anyone if we don't win it cause no one expects us to.

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Post by Stella Wed 16 Oct 2013, 2:38 pm

All of the above, bar Gerrard - Lampard, as they won't play together, hopefully.
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Post by mystiroakey Wed 16 Oct 2013, 2:49 pm

how can it not be all of the above .

Have you learnt nothing Steffan!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 16 Oct 2013, 8:55 pm

I blame society
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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed 16 Oct 2013, 9:18 pm

Well Roy Hogdson would be to blame if we do poorly as we already know the following

The Gerrard and Lampard partnership doesn't work. Gerrard and Carrick i hope will be the partnership, they were awesome last night.

There are way way too many foreigners in the Premiership.

We will never win a shoot out. Someone will get sent off probably Rooney.

We will never get a spirit of the 1966 squad again. The players don't even sing the anthem with pride anymore!!!




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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 17 Oct 2013, 4:30 am

Steffan wrote:
JamesLincs wrote:was it really 1958 the last time you qualified for a world cup?
Yes. Why?
Must be depressing for you having to watch England instead of your own country at the world cup.

Even if we don't win the buzz and excitement of just being in the world cup is amazing, Steffan you will never experience this feeling in your lifetime as Wales will never qualify.

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Post by JAS Thu 17 Oct 2013, 6:36 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Steffan wrote:
JamesLincs wrote:was it really 1958 the last time you qualified for a world cup?
Yes. Why?
Must be depressing for you having to watch England instead of your own country at the world cup.

Even if we don't win the buzz and excitement of just being in the world cup is amazing, Steffan you will never experience this feeling in your lifetime as Wales will never qualify.
No....it's not depressing at all. For the non English amongst us it's extremely exciting waiting for the moment when the bubble of expectation bursts. Watching the pained post mortems and blame culture run amok is also rather amusing. The Jocks and the Welsh are currently nowhere near good enough nor are they likely to be in the foreseeable future and so expectations have been adjusted accordingly. The world cup is however an exciting spectacle and so a way has to be found to enjoy it if your team is not there. Constantly having to suffer England's superiority complex being rammed down their throats makes it very very easy for the Jocks and the Taffs to get excited about England's impending demise. Childish? Hell yes....Do we care? Hell no

In answer to the question Probably all of the above but possibly a hapless referee who makes a genuine mistake.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 17 Oct 2013, 9:46 am

Ah I love being English and a sports fan. No other country in the world can match the breadth of what England compete in for world sport.

Football World Cup next summer.
Rugby League World Cup in a couple of weeks.
Rugby Union Autumn Internationals, with the Six Nations around the corner.
The Ashes start next month.
Carl Froch is fighting again soon, and there's always a few more English boxers.
If I fancy a change of pace, there's always Cycling, Darts, Snooker, or Golf. Ditto Tennis.

Good old England. I will never have to be childish and be anti a certain country.


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 17 Oct 2013, 9:52 am

ditto tennis and england Duty!!

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Post by CFCNick Thu 17 Oct 2013, 9:53 am

And our ice hockey team made the final qualifying round for the Sochi Olympics recently.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 17 Oct 2013, 9:58 am

Oh OK then, Tennis is more British than English.

Still being British isn't too bad - it's the second best thing in the world after being English.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 17 Oct 2013, 10:04 am

Being British is fine dude..

For an englishman that is
thumbsup

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Post by westisbest Thu 17 Oct 2013, 10:12 am

Duty281 wrote:Ah I love being English and a sports fan. No other country in the world can match the breadth of what England compete in for world sport.

Football World Cup next summer.
Rugby League World Cup in a couple of weeks.
Rugby Union Autumn Internationals, with the Six Nations around the corner.
The Ashes start next month.
Carl Froch is fighting again soon, and there's always a few more English boxers.
If I fancy a change of pace, there's always Cycling, Darts, Snooker, or Golf. Ditto Tennis.

Good old England. I will never have to be childish and be anti a certain country.
World cup - sadly cant comment
Rugby League wc - looking forward to that. Ireland v Fiji, huge match.
Rugby union - looking forward to seeing how the new coach does. Can we finally beat the AB'S probably not.
The Ashes - cant comment apart from the 1 or 2 irish guys in the squad. And Ian Bell who is top draw.
Boxing not a huge fan of.
The rest only interest is Tennis. Tommy Hass on the way out sadly.

Good on you.

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Post by westisbest Thu 17 Oct 2013, 10:14 am

I'm looking forwad to seeing Benteke (hopefully) shine in Brazil.


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Post by Scrumpy Thu 17 Oct 2013, 1:07 pm

I'd blame Roy.

Pay peanuts, etc...
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 17 Oct 2013, 2:23 pm

You have some great golfers west(all of ireland that is) and have allways been kind of ok Boxing wise, and many brits have some irish roots as well!

And support the team in the ashes mate. 

Rankin looks class and there would be a case to play him alongside broad and jimmy!

Its a real shame Morgan hasn't fulfilled his amazing potential in the test arena though.We have been crying out for a decent no.6 for donkies!!

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Post by Steffan Thu 17 Oct 2013, 7:35 pm

Duty281 wrote:Good old England. I will never have to be childish and be anti a certain country
Actually you are being anti other countries

Assuming nationalistic superiority over other nations is no different to someone hating another country

Glad your looking forward to the 6 Nations next year though. How did you do in the last one again?

Personally I quite like you English. You provide the odd player here and there for successful Lions rugby tours for starters thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:07 pm

Steffan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Good old England. I will never have to be childish and be anti a certain country
Actually you are being anti other countries

Assuming nationalistic superiority over other nations is no different to someone hating another country

Glad your looking forward to the 6 Nations next year though. How did you do in the last one again?

Personally I quite like you English. You provide the odd player here and there for successful Lions rugby tours for starters thumbsup
You're.

Actually I don't assume nationalistic superiority, I'm just proud of my country, and will big it up at every point and turn. Doesn't mean I think any less of other countries.

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Post by Steffan Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:12 pm

Duty281 wrote:Actually I don't assume nationalistic superiority, I'm just proud of my country, and will big it up at every point and turn. Doesn't mean I think any less of other countries
https://www.606v2.com/t48874-1958

From the 1958 thread:

Duty281 wrote:Let's all laugh at inferior Wales, I think.

Bless them, they're so cute.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:16 pm

Yes I was guessing at the OP's meaning of the thread. I think that was his meaning, not sure though.

Certainly not what I think though - I believe that I said in another thread that in a perfect world Wales would qualify for every world cup, which is certainly what I still hope for.

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Post by LastDamnation Thu 17 Oct 2013, 10:34 pm

Based on recent headlines, Jack Wilshere?

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 17 Oct 2013, 10:39 pm

well the press are already gunning for Roy as well!!

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Post by Steffan Thu 17 Oct 2013, 10:54 pm

Who will the English fans and media blame if England dont win the Brazil 2014 World Cup? Article-2445444-1885966000000578-21_634x668

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 18 Oct 2013, 10:57 am

I agree with the general comments that this thread is far too premature and totally unrealistic in suggesting we expect England to win the 2014 World Cup.

However, I was interested in the option put forward by the OP that the FA might be to blame ''for too many foreigners in the Premiership''. I do believe this is a serious issue as regards restricting opportunities and developing England players. However, I'm not sure how much it can be laid at the FA's door. I'm no international employment lawyer but would have thought the FA's hands were pretty much tied, certainly as regards European footballers wishing to play here. Doesn't the blame (if that's the right word) rest more with SKY for pumping so much money into the Premiership so that those teams can recruit foreign players for their own immediate advantage to the long-term detriment of the national side?


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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 11:03 am

Guildford.

If we are perfectly honest, blaming SKY and/or the Premiership isn't really the answer.

Before either were around, and before there were so many Foreigners in the league, England weren't exactly any better.

It's not a result of SKY or the Premiership, it's symptomatic of how British teams play International Football and how incompatible that is with success.

I don't think SKY or Foreigners help the cause (other than it helps UK players to learn from technically better players) but they aren't the major reason for England not winning tournaments.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 11:08 am

If you support rugby and cricket as well as football, you would understand how leagues can be run(for the benefit of the National team as the first priority)

However I am a fan of all. I am actually more inclined to prefer the free market approach of football. At the end of the day the PL brand is a good thing for the country and outweighs the possibility of us being slightly better than we are(and the fact is there is no reason why we can't get much better even with only a third of the players in the league= Its still a great league- better to have a third of the best competition and overall quality in the world over 100% of a poor quality league- all our best players would move abroad anyway!! )

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 11:13 am

Moving abroad for a lot wouldn't be a bad idea.
It's surprising how little ambition they have.

Are they not good enough to move, happy to pick up big money playing in a mediocre team or are they just frightened to try something else.

THere must be at least two or three that teams want? Maybe not good enough for Bayern, Barca or Real, but surely someone like Dortmund or Inter.

Or are British players simply too much trouble because they can't settle or integrate?

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Post by Stella Fri 18 Oct 2013, 11:15 am

Maybe the top European sides don't want our players?
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 18 Oct 2013, 11:50 am

super_realist wrote:Guildford.

If we are perfectly honest, blaming SKY and/or the Premiership isn't really the answer.

Before either were around, and before there were so many Foreigners in the league, England weren't exactly any better.

It's not a result of SKY or the Premiership, it's symptomatic of how British teams play International Football and how incompatible that is with success.

I don't think SKY or Foreigners help the cause (other than it helps UK players to learn from technically better players) but they aren't the major reason for England not winning tournaments.
Hi super_realist, I've certainly been round the block enough to recall various England footballing disasters of the 1970s and '80s and so fully accept that we ''weren't exactly any better'' then.

I wasn't so much trying to put all the blame on ''SKY and/or the Premiership'' but to suggest that it is an additional factor which has become more significant over the last two decades.

I also agree that UK players can ''learn from technically better players''. I remember that being said when Spurs signed Ardiles and Villa after the '78 World Cup. True then as it is today. My issue isn't with the foreign stars - who enhance the Premiership and also boost crowds - but the 30+ year old foreign jobsworths who take a place on the bench and deny opportunities to younger home grown players.

I appreciate that the distinction between a ''star'' and a ''jobsworth'' will not always be as straightforward as suggested above.

I'm not rabidly against the Premiership but do feel there are cons as well as pros.

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:14 pm

Jobsworth? Or Journeyman?

I am in agreement with you actually, and hope you didn't think I was asserting that you were placing the blame squarely at the Premiership and Sky.
THey probably contribute, but I reckon English society as well as footballing style and attitude is an issue too of much more significance.



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Post by guildfordbat Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:22 pm

super_realist wrote:Jobsworth? Or Journeyman?

I am in agreement with you actually, and hope you didn't think I was asserting that you were placing the blame squarely at the Premiership and Sky.
THey probably contribute, but I reckon English society as well as footballing style and attitude is an issue too of much more significance.


Yep, journeyman is a better term. No problem with either of your posts. I reckon we're pretty close and look forward to continuing the discussion in about nine months' time on the inevetable thread ''Why are we coming home early from Brazil?'' Wink 

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:28 pm

super_realist wrote:Moving abroad for a lot wouldn't be a bad idea.
It's surprising how little ambition they have.

Are they not good enough to move, happy to pick up big money playing  in a mediocre team or are they just frightened to try something else.

THere must be at least two or three that teams want? Maybe not good enough for Bayern, Barca or Real, but surely someone like Dortmund or Inter.

Or are British players simply too much trouble because they can't settle or integrate?
Its just a really good league and the home for the english.. The majority of germans and spanish stay at home. However ...


1. There are more top clubs in the pl- the pinnacle in germany is to play for bayern , spain its two clubs, many spanish or germans may want to go to a tottenham, liverpool or an arsenal(4th , 5th , 6th) over there 3rd or 4th best teams..
2. They have more depth of talent at the higher level.


As I tried to explain to you- if our league was like the belgium league or the swedish leagues for example- all or top players would leave to go to the other top leagues of europe.(your ambition comment is not fair in the slightest bit and lacks understanding about the game and the industry- just based on a hate for english footballers)

We have to just deal with fact that the PL is great for our balance sheet , and leave it at that.AND  There is no reason why england players can't get good out of this system. If there are good enough they will PLAY!!


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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:34 pm

Oakey, remember Dortmund reached the CL final this year and are MASSIVE, much bigger than Liverpool or Spurs.

Liverpool aren't a big team these days either. No Champions league. Gerrard on his way over the hill, Suarez desperate to leave, constantly living in the past.

So my point is that if England players were serious about getting better at International football, moving to a different league might help

I think it's irrelevant how good the league is, but there seems to be a correlation between the type of football played in Germany and Spain and the success of the International teams.

THe EPL is certainly the richest, but all these top leagues only have a couple of teams which can win it realistically.
The rest are just playing for CL qualification.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:36 pm

comments like that show a very big lack of understanding of the world of football tbh mate.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:40 pm

"but all these top leagues only have a couple of teams which can win it realistically"


ours has a high quality 6 teams plus. spain and germany have 2 each and dortmund are just a feeder to Bayern, there biggest rival) thats how sad that league is competitively!!


Dortmund got torn a new one by napoli the other week that in turn got ripped a new one by Arsenal  Why - because as soon as they get good- they give there best players to Bayern without even a fight!! Its a nonsense league

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:41 pm

LIke what?

I'm merely proferring a suggestion as to why English players who play exclusively in England don't perform internationally, as almost none of them do with any consistency.

We constantly hear how good they are, but if they aren't playing in a fashion suited to international football, or have never experienced it before, how can you expect them to turn it on when required?

The EPL may very well be a competitive league, full of money, they may go deep in Champions League, maybe even win it.

As a comparison, if all you do is drive a Ford Focus every day and then for 2 weeks every 4 years you have to get into a Ferrari, you can hardly be expected to drive it the way it needs driven. You'll still drive it like a focus.

There's nothing wrong with playing in the EPL, you'll be rich and probably more famous than you deserve to be, but it won't necessarily prepare you for playing with a great deal of success in a world cup.

Not always the EPL's fault, more UK football style in General.

Travel broadens the mind, and I don't think it would do any of these players in non challenging teams to have a few years abroad.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:44 pm

but possibly very good for their national team at the detriment of their domestic league BUT THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH the style of play. BUT everything to do with many of their players playing together (barca or bayern) week in week out Together!
Which of course makes your point a fallacy.. And that to learn from them we just need more english players playing at the top clubs that will be picked by england

Everyone knows Germany is just a bayern light and Braca are just a spain without messi!

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:44 pm

Oakey, in the past 6 years FOUR different German clubs have won the Bundesliga.

How many have won the premiership?

Three.

Dortmund have also won it twice in the last three years. Not bad for a feeder club to Bayern.

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:46 pm

mystiroakey wrote:but possibly very good for their national team at the detriment of their domestic league BUT THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH the style of play. BUT everything to do with many of their players playing together (barca or bayern) week in week out Together!
Which of course makes your point a fallacy.. And that to learn from them we just need more english players playing at the top clubs that will be picked by england

Everyone knows Germany is just a bayern light and Braca are just a spain without messi!
OK, continue playing in the same style you always have, in your parochial league and continue getting the same results.


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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:52 pm

super_realist wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:but possibly very good for their national team at the detriment of their domestic league BUT THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH the style of play. BUT everything to do with many of their players playing together (barca or bayern) week in week out Together!
Which of course makes your point a fallacy.. And that to learn from them we just need more english players playing at the top clubs that will be picked by england

Everyone knows Germany is just a bayern light and Braca are just a spain without messi!
OK, continue playing in the same style you always have, in your parochial league and continue getting the same results.

how the heck to you leap to that conclusion

parchorial(its the most multi national league on the planet Doh with so many different styles and types of players- its a brilliant blend and mix )



We were arguing the other day

That all i want is england to improve their style of football and you were saying that we should play defensive as hodgson did in 2010 blah blah or we will get murdered..(and a PL style is exactly how we play well- the problem is we haven't been playing that style, a pl style is brash attacking rush football- very similar to the last two england games).

I like you alot SR dude.. But jesus you just contradict after contradict and put  way too many words in my mouth. Its just getting ridiculous dude.

See you around.

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:00 pm

Well, you said something had to change.

It's parochial in an English sense because they don't seem interested in playing anywhere else.

So you don't think that the current crop of very average England players might have something to gain by going to play in Spain or in Germany? If not, why not.

If you have the answer to why England fail so dismally despite their fandabbydozie league, why aren't the FA seeing the same thing?

All I'm saying is that limiting yourself to a league which has proven time and again doesn't help international aspirations (of the England team) isn't a good thing.

If I was playing at a mediocre team like Everton (never going to win PL)  I'd certainly be open to improving my game by moving abroad to a Stuttgart or an Athletico.

Glad Bale went to Madrid, obviously money played a part but shows true ambition to play at one of the best clubs.

Englands manager has managed abroad in several countries. He's learned a lot more by doing that than he would have in the EPL.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:12 pm

"So you don't think that the current crop of very average England players might have something to gain by going to play in Spain or in Germany? If not, why not."


not at all no. they never ever have in the past. only ever got worse tbh, (the irony of your bale comment as well.. he could end up on the bench and be valued half the money come season end !- Staying at tottenham would have been ideal for him imo(thats not about the team being in the pl- just that he isnt a ronaldo yet, playing a slightly lesser team gives you more games- and of course in the pl he will play against better opposition week in week out- Barca and madrid just smash half the league 6-0 week in week out.. Playing against them defensives isn't going to help bale at all!






what the top players need to do is play for the lesser clubs anywhere and ACTUALLY PLAY and not bench warm.




I pull my hair out in regards to it.. It drives me mad.

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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:15 pm

Precisely Oakey, none of them have stayed long enough to get used to the playing style, hence it being unrealistic that a group of England players in the PL can turn up to a World Cup expecting to play in a way suited to International Football success.

I think Barca and Real would smash half the EPL 6-0 every week too.

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Post by Stella Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:17 pm

super_realist wrote:Precisely Oakey, none of them have stayed long enough to get used to the playing style, hence it being unrealistic that a group of England players in the PL can turn up to a World Cup expecting to play in a way suited to International Football success.

I think Barca and Real would smash half the EPL 6-0 every week too.
No point in getting use to the spanish way, if England play in a totally different manner.
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Post by super_realist Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:20 pm

What I'm saying Stella is that having broader experience across more than one League might benefit England players.

Obviously it's unrealistic to expect or even want England to play like Spain, but having greater experience of teams who play in their style (or Germany's style) might help them cope better when they come up against those teams.
Simple.

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