Eng v Aus match thread + build up

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

First topic message reminder :

Chance to chat about the game.
I think it will be a real cracker with England to take it by around 8 points or more.
I know every game is important but the management must have this penciled in as a must win because they can win it if they play it right.

[Hood83]

Why must the press say people claimed they would make Twickers "a fortress" with "" just like that, when the interview clearly never uses those words? It pains me to agree with GE too much, but the press in this country need sorting out and I think the Regulation decree has come not an instant too soon

You're not agreeing with GE - He thinks the England players and coaches are arrogant, you're saying our press is, as usual, misrepresenting them.

[doctor_grey]

Unless Australia get the ball and clear to Brown. Which is fine by the gameplan because:

A) Brown is all to intents and purposes a forward who can catch
B) Brown will never kick the ball back
C) Brown will never pass to a back

Good point. Feckin' backs.

[Taylorman]

Good luck doc...watching it in new jersey are we?
Have to agree the backs are an enigma to me. 12trees I liked several years ago so that's taken a while. In terms of prep the two sides couldn't be more different, oz already having a very long and combative season, going through coaches, captains, 10s and the like, england about to find out where its at. Still think cooper will have a huge impact in this match, probably at his best for a long time now.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

The word arrogance is one which exists in English and must only applied within England.

Ditto smug and

Noun 1. arrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiorsarrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors
haughtiness, hauteur, high-handedness, lordliness
superbia, pride - unreasonable and inordinate self-esteem (personified as one of the deadly sins)
condescension, disdainfulness, superciliousness - the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior
contemptuousness - the manifestation of scorn and contempt; "every subordinate sensed his contemptuousness and hated him in return"
hubris - overbearing pride or presumption
domineeringness, imperiousness, overbearingness - the trait of being imperious and overbearing
superiority - displaying a sense of being better than others; "he hated the white man's superiority and condescension"
snobbery, snobbishness, snobbism - the trait of condescending to those of lower social status

I wish people would grab this fundamental fact.

It ought to form a compulsory part of the Citizenship test.








Shouldn't it GE?

[Hood83]

The word arrogance is one which exists in English and must only applied within England.

Ditto smug and

Noun 1. arrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiorsarrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors
haughtiness, hauteur, high-handedness, lordliness
superbia, pride - unreasonable and inordinate self-esteem (personified as one of the deadly sins)
condescension, disdainfulness, superciliousness - the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior
contemptuousness - the manifestation of scorn and contempt; "every subordinate sensed his contemptuousness and hated him in return"
hubris - overbearing pride or presumption
domineeringness, imperiousness, overbearingness - the trait of being imperious and overbearing
superiority - displaying a sense of being better than others; "he hated the white man's superiority and condescension"
snobbery, snobbishness, snobbism - the trait of condescending to those of lower social status

I wish people would grab this fundamental fact.

It ought to form a compulsory part of the Citizenship test.








Shouldn't it GE?

Haha  

[GloriousEmpire]

Let me revise my estimate...

[stub]

The word arrogance is one which exists in English and must only applied within England.

Ditto smug and

Noun 1. arrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiorsarrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors
haughtiness, hauteur, high-handedness, lordliness
superbia, pride - unreasonable and inordinate self-esteem (personified as one of the deadly sins)
condescension, disdainfulness, superciliousness - the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior
contemptuousness - the manifestation of scorn and contempt; "every subordinate sensed his contemptuousness and hated him in return"
hubris - overbearing pride or presumption
domineeringness, imperiousness, overbearingness - the trait of being imperious and overbearing
superiority - displaying a sense of being better than others; "he hated the white man's superiority and condescension"
snobbery, snobbishness, snobbism - the trait of condescending to those of lower social status

I wish people would grab this fundamental fact.

It ought to form a compulsory part of the Citizenship test.










Shouldn't it GE?

Haha  

Robshaw from BBC article:

Saturday's match will be the penultimate meeting between the two sides before they face each other at the same venue in the group stages of the World Cup.
"Two years out from a World Cup everyone who comes to Twickenham will be looking to get an edge over us, especially Australia and Wales who are in our group," said the forward.
"It's about making it a really tough place for people to come and play.
"That doesn't just happen, it takes a lot of hard work. Hopefully it'll start building now."

Is that the arrogant part? Doesn't sound hugely so to me. In fact it sounds like he's particularly worried about Aus and Wales to me...

[ChequeredJersey]

Don't you see? It's the lack of arrogance that is inherently arrogant

[GloriousEmpire]

It assumes Wales and Australia feel they don't already have an edge over England and hence is arrogant. Yes.

[doctor_grey]

Fairly humble and concerned, I agree.
Seems like a nice chap.
Drop him now.

We need a Captain with a bit of swagger, not the same, boring old PC babble.
Dylan Hartley for Captain!

[stub]

It assumes Wales and Australia feel they don't already have an edge over England and hence is arrogant. Yes.

Complicated stuff that.

[ChequeredJersey]

Cipriani to 10 and make him captain

[Hood83]

It assumes Wales and Australia feel they don't already have an edge over England and hence is arrogant. Yes.

Which logical fallacy is this one? Is it circular reasoning?

[GloriousEmpire]

Are Japan saying its important to beat NZ so NZ don't feel they have an edge over them at the next RWC?

[ChequeredJersey]

I think it's called petitio principi. Or a circular argument or a false inference. It's hard to pinpoint it down to just one logical flaw as that might imply that a part of the argument was not flawed

[GloriousEmpire]

If Wales and Australia are in England's group then it's arrogant to suggest anyone else would need an "edge" given the likelihood than England won't escape their group.

[ChequeredJersey]

Are Japan saying its important to beat NZ so NZ don't feel they have an edge over them at the next RWC?

Probably should do if they think it's in any way likely. But I think the key point was the fact that it is at Twickenham, actually the focus of the interview, and that is specifically relevant to the RWc, and that regardless of whether they feel they hold an edge now, it is about ensuring that is not the case when the sides next play at Twickenham. It does not suppose that Wales or Australia don't or shouldn't feel that they hold an edge and if they do it makes the sentiments of the comment even more practical and laudable

[ChequeredJersey]

I don't think you understand the meaning of "to hold an edge"

[EnglishReign]

Seeing as England are ranked higher than both Aus and Wales, I'd say it's fair enough to assume that anyway.

[GloriousEmpire]

Only by virtue of NZ and SA beating Australia repeatedly. Claiming other peoples successes as your own? Former Colonies no less!!! Oh the arrogance!

[EnglishReign]

I only speak facts.

[stub]

If Wales and Australia are in England's group then it's arrogant to suggest anyone else would need an "edge" given the likelihood than England won't escape their group.

To be fair - it will be interesting to see who comes out of that group. IMO England are no less or more likely to lose out than the others which makes Robshaw's (clearly arrogant) colonial outburst all the more understandable.  

[Hood83]

Only by virtue of NZ and SA beating Australia repeatedly. Claiming other peoples successes as your own? Former Colonies no less!!! Oh the arrogance!

Ooooh, I see, so you don't understand the term arrogance either (there you go, that one's a freebie). Shame, I thought portnoy had cracked it for you.

I have to say it's refreshing for you to jump onto someone else's post about England to derail it rather than start you own anti-England thread.

[thomh]

Only by virtue of NZ and SA beating Australia repeatedly. Claiming other peoples successes as your own? Former Colonies no less!!! Oh the arrogance!

What's that got to do with England being ranked ahead of Wales?

The Twickenham factor is key. If England beat Australia at Twickenham this year, then why would Australia come to Twickenham feeling they had an edge next time? Even if you think that Australia have the edge now, that doesn't make his comments any less sensible going into tomorrow's game.

[GloriousEmpire]

Maths

[doctor_grey]

But, really, why do we give a tuppence what the heck Australia think about beating England?  I really don't care.  

What I do care about is what England think.  They better go out knowing, not thinking or supposing, but knowing they will put thumbscrews on the Aussies and run them back to Botany Bay.  

Look gents, the Aussies are pros.  They will come out looking to win.  We need to be nut-cutting ruthless.  We need a Captain who will tell these guys to go hammer and tongs for 80 minutes leaving little Aussie remnants all over the pitch.  Then the next game do the same for the next opponent.    We don't wish to bring our best.  We have to know it.  

And do it.  

Here is a good example.  Any time George Gregan was nice and polite, such as:  "I respect England and they have good players", he really meant:  "We are going to kick their arrogant arses".  Everyone knew that.  That is what we need.

[Pal Joey]

Well said, Doc.

Thumbscrews... Botany Bay... little Aussie remnants... arrogant arses.

Love it!

[Duty281]

All this "arrogant" talk is very simple:

If Wales, Scotland, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, South Africa, Fiji, or any other nation or club in the rugby world, talk themselves up, then they are "confident" and "focused".

If England talk themselves up, they are "arrogant" and "disrespectful".

I hope England win tomorrow, then perhaps their "arrogance" can be justified.

And even if England don't win, comfort yourself with the notion that England are better than Australia at near-enough every other sport, including football, cricket, boxing, cycling, and....darts.

Now that is arrogance.

England, the best team in the Northern Hemisphere (by the rankings) and inventors of this game, by 10.

[Pal Joey]

Yes, it's a very recent phenomenon, Duty.

After all of those decades of success over England in all of those sports you mention (except darts... but add RL, swimming, tennis, golf, hockey and... sailing) you finally decided to hire our coaches and learn the Secret of Winning.

It's a great feeling isn't it?  

[emack2]

Recently read a comment that Lancaster was trying to make sure the SCW error wasn't repeated.That is most of the Squad retiring and a shortage of suitable replacements it is
still two years out from the RWC.
Building depth is more important than bragging rights make no mistake all the SH sides
will be there.Matfield and several other veterans are returning to SA maybe Matfield and Botha want another RWC.
Most of the pundits reckon Aus have no chance of beating England,and England are concentrating on NZ.
NZ may even lose every game too France anywhere are just liable to surprise you.
Ireland would love to allay the bogey,England?well they may BUT they can expect
a BlackLash.
AB`s are never beaten you just score more points,revenge is a dish best served up cold
and the AB`s have just stepped out the refrigerator.

[nathan]

It assumes Wales and Australia feel they don't already have an edge over England and hence is arrogant. Yes.

No, YOU assume that Robshaw assumes Wales and Australia need an edge and lets all be honest here. Nobody really takes you seriously.

[nathan]

All this "arrogant" talk is very simple:

If Wales, Scotland, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, South Africa, Fiji, or any other nation or club in the rugby world, talk themselves up, then they are "confident" and "focused".

If England talk themselves up, they are "arrogant" and "disrespectful".

I hope England win tomorrow, then perhaps their "arrogance" can be justified.

And even if England don't win, comfort yourself with the notion that England are better than Australia at near-enough every other sport, including football, cricket, boxing, cycling, and....darts.

Now that is arrogance.

England, the best team in the Northern Hemisphere (by the rankings) and inventors of this game, by 10.

Mentioning that Rugby was invented in Rugby is the height of arrogance, surely this is enough to make GE's head explode!

[quinsforever]

Why must the press say people claimed they would make Twickers "a fortress" with "" just like that, when the interview clearly never uses those words? It pains me to agree with GE too much, but the press in this country need sorting out and I think the Regulation decree has come not an instant too soon
[/quote

Yes, I have to agree CJ, our press are truly awful.

ha. its not for this thread, but i hardly think our politicians are any better...

[quinsforever]

Unless Australia get the ball and clear to Brown. Which is fine by the gameplan because:

A) Brown is all to intents and purposes a forward who can catch
B) Brown will never kick the ball back
C) Brown will never pass to a back

go CJ, go Brown

[quinsforever]

Only by virtue of NZ and SA beating Australia repeatedly. Claiming other peoples successes as your own? Former Colonies no less!!! Oh the arrogance!

and eng having beaten NZ last time out. IRB rankings are a bit more sophisticated and objective than your lousy attempts to pick a fight GEboy.

[Hood83]

Yes, it's a very recent phenomenon, Duty.

After all of those decades of success over England in all of those sports you mention (except darts... but add RL, swimming, tennis, golf, hockey and... sailing) you finally decided to hire our coaches and learn the Secret of Winning.  

It's a great feeling isn't it?  

Nah, I was happy repeatedly losing with good grace and humour... just like GE when we turned the ABs over last year and he came on here and congratulated England on a job well done.

[Pal Joey]

Yeah, just like us now in cricket and rugby to some extent.

It makes us more balanced and humble. Still hurts when you lose but it's important to congratulate the winning fans.

Best of luck to both teams. Looking forward to the game this afternoon as well - NZ v Japan.

[Taylorman]

Hi ya LB...my take on this match is simple....

Quade...Quade...Quade

Wide pass...wide pass...

Ignore either of the above at their peril...

[Hood83]

Hi ya LB...my take on this match is simple....

Quade...Quade...Quade

Wide pass...wide pass...

Ignore either of the above at their peril...

This couples with my prediction that Tomkins is going to have a fairly torrid introduction to Test rugby.

[Taylorman]

good to see players coming from league more though. I see we get his brother here for the Warriors, thought I knew the name. Maybe two brothers in the Centres at wcup 2015? wouldnt that be something?

[GloriousEmpire]

Yes, it's a very recent phenomenon, Duty.

After all of those decades of success over England in all of those sports you mention (except darts... but add RL, swimming, tennis, golf, hockey and... sailing) you finally decided to hire our coaches and learn the Secret of Winning.  

It's a great feeling isn't it?  

Nah, I was happy repeatedly losing with good grace and humour... just like GE when we turned the ABs over last year and he came on here and congratulated England on a job well done.

I'm all class.

[hugehandoff]

England's forward are not that great so Australia will get enough ball, and quick ball at that, for their superior backs to win via some classy tries. Corbs is a massive loss and that negates using the scrum as a weapon so sadly for me I expect another defeat. Oh well.

[yappysnap]

England by 2, the win coming off the boot of Owen Farrell with an extra time drop goal.  

[Hood83]

Yes, it's a very recent phenomenon, Duty.

After all of those decades of success over England in all of those sports you mention (except darts... but add RL, swimming, tennis, golf, hockey and... sailing) you finally decided to hire our coaches and learn the Secret of Winning.  

It's a great feeling isn't it?  

Nah, I was happy repeatedly losing with good grace and humour... just like GE when we turned the ABs over last year and he came on here and congratulated England on a job well done.

I'm all class.

Haha, that you are  

[Hood83]

England's forward are not that great so Australia will get enough ball, and quick ball at that, for their superior backs to win via some classy tries. Corbs is a massive loss and that negates using the scrum as a weapon so sadly for me I expect another defeat. Oh well.

I agree. Our pack has a callow feel to it.

[stub]

England's forward are not that great so Australia will get enough ball, and quick ball at that, for their superior backs to win via some classy tries. Corbs is a massive loss and that negates using the scrum as a weapon so sadly for me I expect another defeat. Oh well.

I agree. Our pack has a callow feel to it.

No! Let's be positive. Our pack will be strong, mobile and athletic and they will learn fast against a more mature but bruised and battered Aussie pack!!

[Hood83]

England's forward are not that great so Australia will get enough ball, and quick ball at that, for their superior backs to win via some classy tries. Corbs is a massive loss and that negates using the scrum as a weapon so sadly for me I expect another defeat. Oh well.

I agree. Our pack has a callow feel to it.

No! Let's be positive. Our pack will be strong, mobile and athletic and they will learn fast against a more mature but bruised and battered Aussie pack!!

OK, positive vibes, I'll go with that stub!

[Biltong]

ARE YA KIDS EXCITED YET?????

The European leg starts today.   

[nobbled]

Can't wait - really don't know how we will get on - but feel confident we can put in a performance.
Also it's my birthday so the perfect reason to be in the pub with some mates to watch the game.
 

[Taylorman]

Happy birthday hobbled...good luck...hopefully an extra pressie in the match for you.

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