Should the Unions look after players better...

With Mike Phillips being sacked by Bayonne, for what is reported as being drunk at a video session, and previously reported player misdemeanors resulting in dismissals, such as Henson and Cipriani to name just a couple.

Is it time that the sport, maybe at Union level, steps up and provide more off field support for players. I think back at the days of George Best and the antics he got up to, but in today's multi-million pound sport, young stars such as Bale, or even Giggs and Beckham before, seem to get more support off the field, to ensure the young players who rise to celebrity stardom and have wealth beyond belief, at least most stay on the rails and mature into respected members of society. (I did say MOST, there will always be some beyond help...)

Do you Rugby does enough to look after these players through their career, or do you think the governing bodies don't care two hoots as long as they fill their stadia and reap the bucks...

To go back to what happened to Phillips. I believe most big companies (at least the ones I have worked for and with), would take a dim view on turning up for work drunk or under the influence. However, they have welfare policies in place, that if it happened once, where no one was hurt or injured, the employee would be put on an official warning, but underlying reasons for cause would be looked into and a process of help would be put in place. After all, it is easier to help good employers get over their problem than lose them and have to re-recruit. On this basis, again, should the clubs start doing more to help these players and identify why they are doing what they are, rather than throwing them out.

I'm not trying to suggest one thing or another here, just interested in others thoughts, on whether Rugby looks after its players...

I think players should be responsible for their own welfare, they are big boys and they get paid enough particularly in football. There will usually be be a host of young guys snapping at their heels to make their grade so that should be motivation enough to stay on track.

With Guns on this one - it's a matter of personal responsibility. Either you want to be the best professional rugby player that you can be, with all that that entails with regard to diet and lifestyle or you choose to live a more enjoyable life but one in which you won't be as successful in your sport.

Heck, even I never used to drink the night before games, and that was only playing at very low competetive level - I played better and felt better for not doing so, and it seemed to me a worthwhile sacrifice for my teammates. Multiply this by 1000 for the Phillips situation.

Bayonne had two choices - find some help (counselling?) for Phillips or let him go.

Going back to No9's initial comment about George Best and then how Giggs and Beckham behaved, the latter were well disciplined by Man U precisely because of the problems that Best and later on the Robson/McGrath era teams had. I heard on the radio the other day that the first change that Wenger intituted at Arsenal was a no alcohol policy, and that the physiological results of this were a 10% improvement in player fitness.

Take both your points and respect them...

However, some of the new young guns are just that, young... These guys shoot from school to stardom. Shouldnt a little more be done to help these. If not, wont they just look up to the "big" players, like Mike Phillips and hence go down the track of which could lead to the loss of big talent, like Henson (as an example)...

Gone are the days where the players have other jobs, so they learn discipline and respect through those. Some of the new talent is nearly fresh from school and if not educated in social skills as well as the game of rugby, arent they going to simply follow the example of others, which may not be a good thing...

I'm not tarring all with the same brush. Just look at the example Warburton, Halfpenny, BOD, to name some show. But as a young (probably single) 19 year old, whom seems the most attractive to follow... Sam home for a chocolate and a cup of tea, BOD home to the Mrs and his baby daughter or Mike Phillips for a few pints and a rave up....

Again, not suggesting one thing or other is right, just wondering what the opinions are.

dummy_half wrote:

Heck, even I never used to drink the night before games, and that was only playing at very low competetive level - I played better and felt better for not doing so, and it seemed to me a worthwhile sacrifice for my teammates. Multiply this by 1000 for the Phillips situation.

Just thought to be fair... It was not suggested or ever suggested that Mike Phillips was drinking BEFORE a game. I just think that was worth pointing out.

No9
The young players are almost always brought through the Academy systems anyway, so the required discipline should be being instilled in them at that time.

There are plenty of reasonably talented players developed through the youth systems. In some cases the difference between being a success and a failure will be how self disciplined and self motivated they are. The guy who follows his fitness plan rigorously and spends half an hour extra on skills practice, then goes home is more likley to be a success than the perhaps more naturally gifted guy who shirks in the gym, does the bare minimum on the training pitch and then goes to the pub.

OK, you may occasionally get someone like George Best who has so much natural ability that they can get away with the rest, but even then the length of their career is likely to be compromised - Best was done at the top level by 26, while Giggs is still reasonably useful at 40 (both having reached the Man U 1st team at about 17).

No9 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

Heck, even I never used to drink the night before games, and that was only playing at very low competetive level - I played better and felt better for not doing so, and it seemed to me a worthwhile sacrifice for my teammates. Multiply this by 1000 for the Phillips situation.

Just thought to be fair... It was not suggested or ever suggested that Mike Phillips was drinking BEFORE a game. I just think that was worth pointing out.

No9
I know Phillips was only drunk coming in to a video analysis session, but my point was that generally it is up to you as a player to look after yourself to a standard commensurate with the level you play at. MP is an elite level club and international player, paid very good money to perform at his optimum, and with the results of the games he plays being very significant both in terms of competetive prestige and (in the case of Bayonne) financially. Turning up drunk to a video session may not be the worst crime ever committed by a rugby player, but it is certainly behaviour that Bayonne, as his employers, are correctly not tolerant of.

That's an excellant point (re Acadamies), but never being exposed to one myself, I wonder what, outside of Rugby, are the products of these Acadamies taught...

Of course we also have to consider the raw talent that comes through from more natural progress, ie. schoolboys who miss the acadamy but spotted playing.

I think clubs (and I guess unions) need to educate younger players more. What we have are relatively well off young men with a lot of free time. Thus there is always a risk of going off the rails. So education and support is needed, but in the end it is the players responsibility.

I also think that clubs (and I guess Uniuons) need to be helping players plan for life after rugby from very early on in their careers.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:...

I also think that clubs (and I guess Uniuons) need to be helping players plan for life after rugby from very early on in their careers.

That's a good point, especially given the possibility of a rugby career being curtailed by injury. I suspect rugby clubs are somewhat better at this than football clubs though, in part because they still have contacts in business as a hangover from the amateur days (after all, I'm sure Peter Winterbottom was entirely suited to the career change from sheep farmer to investment banker that coincided with his move to Quins   ).

Of course the other question is whether the young players will listen and act on the advice given...

Well, in the end we rarely learn from other peoples mistakes - instead only learning from our own. Will the young player listen? Not all - but then that will also tell you something about the persons character.

VietGwent

Agreed, although I think another consideration would be who the message comes from. From an English rugby perspective, the last few years has seen the likes of Tom Rees and Harry Ellis have very promising international careers ended by injury - if guys like them, or even more forcefully, Matt Hampson, were to be the ones talking about the requirements of a plan B, I suspect more of the kids would listen.