KP - England career over

First topic message reminder :

"@bbctms: Reports suggesting Kevin Pietersen will NOT be selected for West Indies tour and World T20. Expecting ECB statement shortly #bbccricket

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/statement-kevin-pietersen

As that statement underlines, his career with England is done.

Discuss away, I'm sure this will be a hot topic...

there's no such thing as being too small....your talking out of your arse, as per usual!

CF wrote:there's no such thing as being too small....your talking out of your arse, as per usual!

Love sacks to that!

Of course there is such a thing as being too small.

gboycottnut1 wrote:

CF wrote:there's no such thing as being too small....your talking out of your arse, as per usual!

Love sacks to that!

Of course there is such a thing as being too small.

In what way?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:

CF wrote:there's no such thing as being too small....your talking out of your arse, as per usual!

Love sacks to that!

Of course there is such a thing as being too small.

In what way?

In a way that makes a high level of performance difficult to sustain.

gboycottnut1 wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:

CF wrote:there's no such thing as being too small....your talking out of your arse, as per usual!

Love sacks to that!

Of course there is such a thing as being too small.

In what way?

In a way that makes a high level of performance difficult to sustain.

Why does it?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:

CF wrote:there's no such thing as being too small....your talking out of your arse, as per usual!

Love sacks to that!

Of course there is such a thing as being too small.

In what way?

In a way that makes a high level of performance difficult to sustain.

Why does it?

I have told you why!

What because, according to you, smaller people are easier to bully? Sorry, but that's rubbish.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:What because, according to you, smaller people are easier to bully. Sorry, but that's rubbish.

No it ain't rubbish as physically they are likely to be weaker.

We're talking about sledging in cricket. Nothing to do with physicality.
Are you suggesting that the Aussies are going to physically attack him?

I think England will be very tempted by Morgan. He looked a class above the rest of the side in the ODIs, and with KP out they will be keen for someone who has that bit of something different to change things up.

The truth of the matter is nobody has really put their hand up completely, apart from maybe Robson who seems to be scoring runs whoever he plays for. That means that the Morgan option is tempting, and may not be the worst plan ever - I know he failed last time but that also coincided with a dip in his shorter game form as well, and some clear technical issues he seems to have ironed out a bit. I am still a bit reticent about his play outside off-stump, so personally I would like him to prove he can score buckets in first class cricket first. However it seems likely he'll be off to the IPL so I doubt that'll happen.

Everyone seems convinced Root will slot straight back into the side, and perhaps he will, but he looked hopelessly out of touch in the ODIs, and England really have to decide where they want to bat him.

Trott is the big question mark. Without knowing everything there's nothing much to say, but I would be reticent of putting him back in the firing line unless there was a strong probability that he could also travel.

Ballance played and looked OK I guess, although I thought his play against spin looked suspect. He looked a bit out of shape, and fielding was poor for an international. He certainly didn't make a strong case for inclusion, so it may depend on whether England picked him to "have a look" (in which case I would suggest he hasn't done enough) or because genuinely they believed he was the best man (in which case I suggest he did enough to remain heir apparent awaiting first class performances).

Taylor seems the perpetual almost man. I commented before the Aus trip that I was impressed with how his game had developed over the last year or so, that he seems a bit more compact and hitting the ball much more solidly. England do see him as a top order player, so he could slot in at 3 or 4. Again though his form for the Lions whilst reasonable has hardly been screaming pick me.

In fact Bairstow is having a good time of it with the Lions. The issue is he reminds me a bit of Bailey in that he struggles against quality pace, the short ball and good spin bowling. I'm not sure that's a brilliant recipe for success for an international cricketer.

The keeper slot is between Prior and Buttler (who also had a decent ODI series) as far as I can tell.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:We're talking about sledging in cricket. Nothing to do with physicality.
Are you suggesting that the Aussies are going to physically attack him?

It wouldn't surprise me if Aussies plan physical/intimidatory-like tactics in order to try and unsettle him when he is batting.

gboycottnut1 wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:We're talking about sledging in cricket. Nothing to do with physicality.
Are you suggesting that the Aussies are going to physically attack him?

It wouldn't surprise me if Aussies plan physical/intimidatory-like tactics in order to try and unsettle him when he is batting.

I'm sure they will> As they do with all other batsmen.
The idea that, because he is short his is more liable to intimidation is, however, ludicrous.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:We're talking about sledging in cricket. Nothing to do with physicality.
Are you suggesting that the Aussies are going to physically attack him?

It wouldn't surprise me if Aussies plan physical/intimidatory-like tactics in order to try and unsettle him when he is batting.

I'm sure they will> As they do with all other batsmen.
The idea that, because he is short his is more liable to intimidation is, however, ludicrous.

No it ain't ludicrous.

Maybe I didn't word it correctly. The idea that, because Taylor is a few inches shorter than some other players, he is easier to intimidate, is ludicrous.

Boycott's nanny should be picked to bat at 4 for England!. Heard she's tall and won't be intimidated so easily. And as the great man often reminds us, she's capable of hitting the best of them out of the park!!.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Maybe I didn't word it correctly. The idea that, because Taylor is a few inches shorter than some other players, he is easier to intimidate, is ludicrous.

Having a good time, Hoggy?

msp83 wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Maybe I didn't word it correctly. The idea that, because Taylor is a few inches shorter than some other players, he is easier to intimidate, is ludicrous.

Having a good time, Hoggy?

Just whiling away a quiet Sunday afternoon.

Sachin Tendulkar is really tall, guess that's why people don't intimidate him.

gboycottnut1 wrote:now that Pietersen will no longer be able to play for England in the test match format of the game, the important question/issue is who the F*** is going to take over?

1)  James Taylor - but he is too small. The Aussies in particular will bully him into the ground.
2)  Gary Ballance - Was the favourite to replace KP if Flower was still in charge.
3)  Eoin Morgan - But there are still unanswered questions about his batting technique for the test match level.
4)  Ravi Bopara - Doesn't seem to have the mental toughness/ability.
5)  Johnny Bairstow - Big question marks over his ability/braveness to face high class fast bowling (Kemar Roach was the first to give him a real working over, and now M.Johnson has done the same in the recent Ashes series).
6)  Anyone else ? - Perhaps even move Cook to 4 to relieve the workload pressures on his shoulders of having to captain and open the innings. Or consider playing Matt Prior to bat at 4 as a specialist batsman only.

Of the contenders put forward by Boycs, we shouldn't rule out 6) above - ie ayone else. The only two batsmen today virtually assured a starting place in the first Test in mid-June are Cook and Bell. Others at this stage are merely probables and possibles.

IF (it's a big but not impossible ''if'') any other England qualified batsman can hit the ground running and be close to 1,000 first class runs before the opening Test of the summer, he'll be seriously in contention.

Speculation now is fine and fun but the opening two months of the Championship season will have a big say in determining the make up of the first Test side.

This page went off a tangent... How the hell did we end up discussing the validity of James Taylor's height? I mean, Nate Robinson is 5'9 in the NBA, which is the equivalent of being 4'10 in the real world... Hasn't made him any easier to bully... James Taylor's real problem is that he'd be a Barry Manilow look-a-like in a team which already has two Ellen DeGeneres' look-a-likes, a captain with distinct rat-like features, and two gingers in the middle order... all that would be missing is the bearded lady.

Eoin Morgan has been tipped by Atherton to start the first test of England's summer. That would be a step back, I feel; England have tried Morgan before, he failed. There is no more to be said on his Test career.

guildfordbat wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:now that Pietersen will no longer be able to play for England in the test match format of the game, the important question/issue is who the F*** is going to take over?

1)  James Taylor - but he is too small. The Aussies in particular will bully him into the ground.
2)  Gary Ballance - Was the favourite to replace KP if Flower was still in charge.
3)  Eoin Morgan - But there are still unanswered questions about his batting technique for the test match level.
4)  Ravi Bopara - Doesn't seem to have the mental toughness/ability.
5)  Johnny Bairstow - Big question marks over his ability/braveness to face high class fast bowling (Kemar Roach was the first to give him a real working over, and now M.Johnson has done the same in the recent Ashes series).
6)  Anyone else ? - Perhaps even move Cook to 4 to relieve the workload pressures on his shoulders of having to captain and open the innings. Or consider playing Matt Prior to bat at 4 as a specialist batsman only.

Of the contenders put forward by Boycs, we shouldn't rule out 6) above - ie ayone else. The only two batsmen today virtually assured a starting place in the first Test in mid-June are Cook and Bell. Others at this stage are merely probables and possibles.

IF (it's a big but not impossible ''if'') any other England qualified batsman can hit the ground running and be close to 1,000 first class runs before the opening Test of the summer, he'll be seriously in contention.

Speculation is fine and fun but it will be the opening two months of the Championship season that will go the most way in determining the make up of the first Test side.

Agreed Guildford. The first couple of months of the CC are going to be interesting to watch.
I would just add though that a good performance in the various ODI matches England are playing early in the Summer may well help build a case for inclusion in the test team, and that, having close to 1000 runs by the opening test would probably help get a player into contention, as long as his name isn't Compton or Pietersen.  

What a shame Mohammed Irfan doesn't have a dad who is British. 2 Meter Peter of New Zealand is a baby before the Pakistan man!.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

gboycottnut1 wrote:now that Pietersen will no longer be able to play for England in the test match format of the game, the important question/issue is who the F*** is going to take over?

1)  James Taylor - but he is too small. The Aussies in particular will bully him into the ground.
2)  Gary Ballance - Was the favourite to replace KP if Flower was still in charge.
3)  Eoin Morgan - But there are still unanswered questions about his batting technique for the test match level.
4)  Ravi Bopara - Doesn't seem to have the mental toughness/ability.
5)  Johnny Bairstow - Big question marks over his ability/braveness to face high class fast bowling (Kemar Roach was the first to give him a real working over, and now M.Johnson has done the same in the recent Ashes series).
6)  Anyone else ? - Perhaps even move Cook to 4 to relieve the workload pressures on his shoulders of having to captain and open the innings. Or consider playing Matt Prior to bat at 4 as a specialist batsman only.

Of the contenders put forward by Boycs, we shouldn't rule out 6) above - ie ayone else. The only two batsmen today virtually assured a starting place in the first Test in mid-June are Cook and Bell. Others at this stage are merely probables and possibles.

IF (it's a big but not impossible ''if'') any other England qualified batsman can hit the ground running and be close to 1,000 first class runs before the opening Test of the summer, he'll be seriously in contention.

Speculation is fine and fun but it will be the opening two months of the Championship season that will go the most way in determining the make up of the first Test side.

Agreed Guildford. The first couple of months of the CC are going to be interesting to watch.
I would just add though that a good performance in the various ODI matches England are playing early in the Summer may well help build a case for inclusion in the test team, and that, having close to 1000 runs by the opening test would probably help get a player into contention, as long as his name isn't Compton or Pietersen.  

Thanks, Hoggy. Yes, you're right - I was actually editing my final sentence with your sort of comment in mind when you posted.   

Duty281 wrote:Eoin Morgan has been tipped by Atherton to start the first test of England's summer. That would be a step back, I feel; England have tried Morgan before, he failed. There is no more to be said on his Test career.

Using that logic... off the top of my head:
Steve Waugh
Damien Martyn
Matty Hayden
Ian Bell
Hashim Amla
Jacques Kallis
Ricky Ponting (admittedly not dropped exclusively on technical grounds)
VVS Laxman

Should I go on?

All players who were tried for a reasonable length of time (apart from Amla who looked so out of his depth he was dropped fairly quickly), were eventually dropped, went away, improved and ended up from good (Bell) to very good, to all-time greats.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that Morgan will end up as good a test match player as any of those, and there are very sound reasons for not picking him again, but the argument that he has been tried and failed is not one. The argument that he has been tried, failed, and we haven't seen any noticeable improvement in technique or ability to play long innings has more merit (although I do think his technique is tighter).

Morgan might flourish in a more positive side tbf.

Morgan has pulled out of the IPL auction.

Obviously fancies one of those test spots, good to see

Olly wrote:Morgan has pulled out of the IPL auction.

Obviously fancies one of those test spots, good to see

Good man.
Nice bit of commitment there

A little flame has been lit under this again by Prior who in Dubai doing a Q+A said the England dressing room would be a better place without KP. Quote significant cos Prior was one who really went to bat for KP after textgate

Well obviously they're relationship has deteriorated...

KP responded with this tweet

"@KP24: Fewer Q&A's, more Sussex nets methinks, @MattPrior13! #josbuttler

Olly wrote:Morgan has pulled out of the IPL auction.

Obviously fancies one of those test spots, good to see

wow I am shocked.

good on him !!

What did KP ever do for England's cricket team, eh?

He held us back. He dragged us down. And then, and then...

Then he broke our sodding hearts.

I would imagine the dressing room is a better place without KP though.

This is exactly what i have wanted MOgs to do.. He is good enough to play test. He just needs to work at it and stop the IPL nonsense..

Trotts coming back, we have uncovered a few gems for the future- Things are looking up again

Less nuts ...more jelly beans

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/723785.html

when asked in Dubai whether the dressing room would be a better place without Pietersen, Prior replied "yes, it will" and went on to question the batsman's commitment to team success.

"I think one of the biggest things the ECB want to rediscover," Prior said, "is the value of playing cricket for England. The honour and the pride you need to show as an England cricketer.

"And they only want people in that dressing room that are going to be passionate about England winning and performing."

Classic case of twisting Priors words here.

Matt Prior, an average keeper and a dirty slogger, thinks he can put the boot in on Kevin Pietersen?

Prior should stick to learning how to keep wickets and keep his trap shut.

calm down Gerry- I think Prior stated that KP was the best ever english batter ..

BUt i dont really want to hear his thoughts anyway. He better not get his place back in the side...Butler needs to keep his p lace

Unbelievable!! Not a single player has come out for support of KP, not even via a 'freind of a freind' - yer Prior's a naughty boy for daring to speak out

Didn't the knockers of the decision on these boards all want to know what had happened and what the other players thought?

Significantly, that as sooon as KP has left the building - Trott wants to enter it

The more your hear from the players the more it is obvious that KP was totaly unpopular

And on each passing day the ECB's decision deserves more and more applause

Olly wrote:KP responded with this tweet

"@KP24: Fewer Q&A's, more Sussex nets methinks, @MattPrior13! #josbuttler

This tweet tells you all you need to know abotu KP, i.e. his flaws etc

Anyone averageing 33 in a year, should not be posting that tweet

So, Pietersen and Prior don't get on I take it?

Just when I thought it was safe to start reading the papers again   

Prior has rather kicked it all off again. To be honest , I really don't want to hear all the ins and outs of the dressing room squabbling...but it really does look as if KP has upset quite a few people , not just Flower and Cook as some of his fans seem to think. Certainly suggests there was a lot more to this than just a disagreement in a team meeting.

Hopefully the cricket in the next few months proves compelling enough all this stuff can be pushed into the background ...

Prior was someone who backed KP during text gate and was keen to get him back involved. If KP has now managed to alienate one of his strongest advocates in the dressing room, it tells me all I need to know about Kevin.

To be honest - the idea that Cook got rid of KP because he was tired of him... or whatever it was KP apologists claimed seemed expressly thin even before this - Sorry lads, one day you'll have to come to terms with thwarted fact that KP is a knob, and is probably not to good for team morale. A fact which makes him expendable, when the average sinks.

we allways knew he was a knob- problem is he is so good. we hit the point where an average of 33 in a year isnt worth keeping the knob on.

By the way I still love the Knob.. But then I didnt have to play with him.

Fingers crossed he doesnt feick Surrey up!!

Following KP on twitter is a lot more fun now he's been sacked

Monty, Tremlett, Bell, Swann, Trott, Carberry, & Broad all saying KP not an issue in Australia now

Hoping for Pietersen's batting to do more talking to make the foolish decision look even more ridiculous!.
Who cares at the end of the day, after all England are playing with such spirit and happiness without him!.

I'm missing something here..This guy hurts team morale...Probably undermines other players and because he averages 48 has a divine right to play for England...

Here is me thinking cricket is a team game..

Well, I for one am pretty ashamed to be English, let alone British.

The spiteful way in which they have treated Kevin Pieterson is disgusting.

Yes, we all know he was an "in ya face", "call a spade a spade" and "speak frankly not using big words" kinda guy, and us English don't like that, snobby cantankerous old farts can't take a bit of honesty from the heart.

But lets forget just how magnanimously deficient the ECB were in their treatment of one of our best cricket players, lets forget how quickly they found a scapegoat for their own mismanaged decisions and concentrate on WHY they announced the decision, not to drop Kevin or find it difficult to select him later or try to find a solution to England's beleaguered players/team by a slow but intense integration of new blood, oh no, lets look at WHY they decided to announce they had "Sacked" him, "Axed" him and not just delete his name from any further selection lists and tell him quietly, in ya ear like, that they felt his presence may be damaging to the team spirit.

Why announce it as if some kind of extraordinary meeting took place and Kevin's name headed a very short list of culprits, probably only one name on that list too, and tell the world in a typically shallow, underhand and cowardly way that "Kevin Pieterson will NEVER play for England again".

Had they thought for one second just how that would affect him, a public execution of his character without a thought for his feelings ?

And if they are talking about a clean sweep, a new era, a new beginning, why is Cook still involved, he was Captain of our worst showing down under, but somehow he's escaped stainless and shriven to a white, innocent, almost virginal countenance ?

All I can see is a boring England devoid of characters or personalities who will have less charisma than the German football team, and that's facing up to some pretty stiff opposition.

"The spiteful way in which they have treated Kevin Pieterson is disgusting. "


i dont think you understand mate- this is a player that could have texted the best way of getting an england player out to a saffa friend.


Might is the key word- As we dont know any facts. But please bear that in mind before you talk done the rest of the team and the nation

I suppose if you guys want him bad enough - you deserve him

kingraf wrote:I suppose if you guys want him bad enough - you deserve him

For me I can handle getting rid of KP, you move on from players.

The thing that's irked me is how it has been handled. The ECB have just hidden really behind some online statements and the public really only know what the tabloids find out

Whereas I think the way Cricket Australia have handled things such as the Mickey Arthur sacking and Dave Warner punch stuff with straight up press conferences is how they should've handled this, stand up for your decision and give the public proper reasons.