Burns Vs Crawford: views?

by SweetScience Mon 24 Feb 2014, 6:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

How do you guys see this going Saturday?

I like Ricky, seems like a decent kid but have a feeling Crawford might have enough to take his belt. Hope I'm wrong though.

by Gerry SA Sat 01 Mar 2014, 10:30 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Everybody is a journeyman according to you Gerry, makes a mockery of the term when it's used for everyone.

I'm hoping for a Burns win, if he's back on form I think his jab and work rate will be enough for the victory.

Beltran already had 6 defeats prior to the Burns fight.

Burns is a lucky 'champion'. Only got the WBO title because Marquez and Guerrero moved up in weight.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 10:45 am

Vasquez is only the champion because Guzman has no commitment to the sport and was stripped of his title, both won vacant titles Gerry.

That same Beltran is currently ranked as the 5th best lightweight in the world and do remind me which of the currently ranked top ten Vasquez holds a win over because Burns has Mitchell. While you're at it how many top ten ranked contenders have the pair fought for a world title against because Burns is about to face his fifth; Katsidis, Moses, Mitchell, Beltran and now Crawford.

by Duty281 Sat 01 Mar 2014, 10:48 am

Hoping for a Burns win; hoping even more for a fair decision (if it gets that far!).

Oh go on then, Burns by mid-fight stoppage, somewhere in rounds 6-8, after the Yank cacks himself at a real hostile atmosphere. Similar to Froch-Bute I imagine.

by hazharrison Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:01 pm

TBRB ratings:

LIGHTWEIGHT (135LBS)
Rank Name Record - W-L-D (KO) Nationality Last Week
Champion VACANT - - -

Rank Name Record - W-L-D (KO) Nationality Last Week
1 Miguel Vazquez 34-3-0 (13) MEX --
2 Richard Abril 18-3-1 (8) CUB 1
3 Raymundo Beltran 28-6-1 (17) MEX 2
4 Ricky Burns 36-2-1 (11) SCO 3
5 Paulus Moses 32-2-0 (21) NAM 4
6 Terence Crawford 21-0-0 (16) USA 5
7 Sharif Bogere 23-1-0 (15) UGA 6
8 Yuriorkis Gamboa 26-0-0 (16) CUB 7
9 Omar Figueroa 22-0-1 (17) USA 9
10 Daniel Estrada 32-2-1 (24) MEX 10
- See more at: http://www.tbrb.org/all-rankings/#sthash.cSs9adOf.dpuf

by catchweight Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:49 pm

Beltran wuz robbed

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 3:42 pm

Wow Gerry's anti-Scottish sentiment rears it's head on a third sport. Murray in tennis, Di Resta in F1 and now Burns in boxing. Did Sir Sean goose your mum or something?

by Gerry SA Sat 01 Mar 2014, 3:58 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Wow Gerry's anti-Scottish sentiment rears it's head on a third sport. Murray in tennis, Di Resta in F1 and now Burns in boxing. Did Sir Sean goose your mum or something?

Come 11pm another Scot will bite the dust...

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 4:39 pm

Hmm I struggle to think of a noteworthy South African sportsman - oh yes there is Oscar Pistorius. I wonder what happened to him?

by Strongback Sat 01 Mar 2014, 4:45 pm

Obviously Beltran was done by the judges(Matchroom) but Burns poor performance in that fight does depend on when his jaw was broken.

Burns claims it happened in the 2nd round. If that was the case you would have to say he is one tough kid to have lasted another ten rounds particularly as Beltran was throwing the kitchen sink at him. Beltran it could be argued lacked the quality to win by stoppage given the circumstances.

I suspect a rematch would be a little bit different.

by Duty281 Sat 01 Mar 2014, 4:59 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I struggle to think of a noteworthy South African sportsman - oh yes there is Oscar Pistorius. I wonder what happened to him?

by Gerry SA Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:23 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I struggle to think of a noteworthy South African sportsman - oh yes there is Oscar Pistorius. I wonder what happened to him?

Yeah just the endless list of great cricketers and rugby players.....

And I can also roll off about 100 Mexicans if you really want...

I won't hold my breath.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:33 pm

Hmm cricketers and rugby players but how many would be seen as all-time greats and please don't mention Hansie Cronje. And as for Mexico what has that got to do with anything unless you claim dual nationality?

by Gerry SA Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:38 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm cricketers and rugby players but how many would be seen as all-time greats and please don't mention Hansie Cronje. And as for Mexico what has that got to do with anything unless you claim dual nationality?

Don't have to claim anything pal.

I have dual nationality.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:40 pm

In any case the topics you have been ripping into Scots on are tennis, F1 and Boxing so lets judge South Africa in those sports. You slate Andy Murray but I am certain South Africa (for all its greater size and population) has never produced a better tennis player. In F1 I still await South Africa producing a multiple world champion like Jackie Stewart and as for boxing the only boxer from South Africa of note I can recall is Gerry Coetzee but doubt he was in the same class as say Jim Watt or Ken Buchanan.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:41 pm

As a Mexican/South African you want to get into a debate over sporting prowess on a British forum?

by Gerry SA Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:45 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:As a Mexican/South African you want to get into a debate over sporting prowess on a British forum?

I've got nothing against British sport.

Just enjoy the 'banter' with a certain few members.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:45 pm

Jacques Kallis is probably the greatest cricketer of all time, Victor Matfield also probably the greatest lock of them all, Zola Budd is an all tome great middle distance runner. Mbulelo Mulaudzi is a multiple 800m world champion. Brian Mitchell was boxing ultimate road warrior, Corrie Sanders a former world champ, Gerrie Coetzee a former heavyweight champ, Hekkie Budler rated #1 minimumweight boxer. Quite a long list of "noteworthy" South African athletes, humorous to pretend otherwise

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:46 pm

Banter is fine as long as it isn't monotone and one-eyed.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:46 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:In any case the topics you have been ripping into Scots on are tennis, F1 and Boxing so lets judge South Africa in those sports. You slate Andy Murray but I am certain South Africa (for all its greater size and population) has never produced a better tennis player. In F1 I still await South Africa producing a multiple world champion like Jackie Stewart and as for boxing the only boxer from South Africa of note I can recall is Gerry Coetzee but doubt he was in the same class as say Jim Watt or Ken Buchanan.

Brian Mitchell may slightly disagree with you there Craig while Watt did lose to a South African, slightly pedantic but boxing wise Scotland and South Africa are quite even.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:49 pm

Not arguing against the likes of Kallis but Budd was not an all-time great middle distance runner. She came to Britain with a big reputation but she failed to really deliver big time so is not all-time great. The others I wouldn't argue with but perhaps I should to maintain 'banter' as Gerry calls it.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:51 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:In any case the topics you have been ripping into Scots on are tennis, F1 and Boxing so lets judge South Africa in those sports. You slate Andy Murray but I am certain South Africa (for all its greater size and population) has never produced a better tennis player. In F1 I still await South Africa producing a multiple world champion like Jackie Stewart and as for boxing the only boxer from South Africa of note I can recall is Gerry Coetzee but doubt he was in the same class as say Jim Watt or Ken Buchanan.
Brian Mitchell may slightly disagree with you there Craig while Watt did lose to a South African, slightly pedantic but boxing wise Scotland and South Africa are quite even.

Well isn't it odd that it is quite even? South Africa population of 53 million Scotland population of 5.3 million.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:52 pm

The barrel is well and truly scraped when Coetzee and Sanders are included I will say, may as well use Farr as an example of a Welsh sporting great or Gavin Hastings for Scotland.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:53 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:In any case the topics you have been ripping into Scots on are tennis, F1 and Boxing so lets judge South Africa in those sports. You slate Andy Murray but I am certain South Africa (for all its greater size and population) has never produced a better tennis player. In F1 I still await South Africa producing a multiple world champion like Jackie Stewart and as for boxing the only boxer from South Africa of note I can recall is Gerry Coetzee but doubt he was in the same class as say Jim Watt or Ken Buchanan.
Brian Mitchell may slightly disagree with you there Craig while Watt did lose to a South African, slightly pedantic but boxing wise Scotland and South Africa are quite even.

Well isn't it odd that it is quite even? South Africa population of 53 million Scotland population of 5.3 million.

Plus there is the fact that nationality wise we are in fact British not Scottish or English so it's hardly a fair contest in that sense.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:53 pm

You set a world record, and win two world cross country championships on the bounce... you're generally an all time great.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:54 pm

Colin Jackson must be an all time great Hurdler then Raf.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:57 pm

Yeah - highlighting the guy who demolished Wlad Klitschko on a two weeks notice is really scraping at the barrel, isn't it? kinda like bragging about a world champion in a sport as insular as F1...

Also,
1) I wouldn't really say it's surprising that Scotland has a similar boxing history to South Africa, what with the small matter of apartheid insuring that the size of the population which was granted the opportunity to fight on the world stage is roughly the same size as Scotland.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:58 pm

Taking a quick look at his stats... I can't see why he isn't.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:59 pm

kingraf wrote:You set a world record, and win two world cross country championships on the bounce... you're generally an all time great.

Not in athletics terms though. Cross Country does not hold the same claim to fame as track titles. That may seem unfair but that is the way it is and Zola just couldn't do it on the track. Ask a Brit who is an all-time great British athlete and you'd have to wait a pretty long time before the name Zola Budd crops up.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:00 pm

One win doesn't make a boxer great, Stracey beat the snot out of Napoles while Honeyghan did likewise to Curry or I could mention Turpin beating the greatest of them all in Robinson. Three far more impressive wins but none of them are regarded as British greats, so yes you are scraping the barrel.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:01 pm

kingraf wrote:Taking a quick look at his stats... I can't see why he isn't.

The fact he couldn't turn it on at the Olympics is why and the same is true of Budd. If you want to be a great in your sporting field you need to do it on your sports greatest show.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:03 pm

kingraf wrote:Yeah - highlighting the guy who demolished Wlad Klitschko on a two weeks notice is really scraping at the barrel, isn't it? kinda like bragging about a world champion in a sport as insular as F1...

Also,
1) I wouldn't really say it's surprising that Scotland has a similar boxing history to South Africa, what with the small matter of apartheid insuring that the size of the population which was granted the opportunity to fight on the world stage is roughly the same size as Scotland.

The anti-apartheid era ended about two decades ago now and remember it isn't me who trawls these forums belittling South African sportsmen like Gerry does with Scottish sportsmen.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:07 pm

I didnt call him a great - I believe I used the term former world champ... Also, while winning at the biggest stage is the general pre requisite for anointing an all time great in sports - it's hardly a fair barometer in a sport where the biggest contest is held every four years... By that reckoning, we might as well call Anthony Joshua one of the greatest Boxing Olympians of all time.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:11 pm

Fact is kingraf - on the biggest stage on the track Zola Budd failed to deliver. If you were to ask Brits for their top ten British athletes of all-time it is a guarantee Zola would not make the list. You would get the likes of Coe, Ovett, Thompson, Christie, Lewis, Farah, Ratcliffe, J.Edwards, Hemery and Lynn Davies.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:13 pm

It is a fair comment when you compete at four of them and only have a silver medal to show for it. A great athlete will win an Olympic gold medal it's why Radcliffe will never be great.

As for sanders being a world champion, well not a big deal when Lennox Lewis was the only champion of the time. Winning the lowly regarded WBO doesn't mean a lot.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:13 pm

Look - I'm personally quite proud of our boxing achievements - only have about 800 pro boxers... of those only about 10% box as a full time profession. And yet we have about half a dozen guys ranked top ten in their division.

Moreover - I wouldn't overestimate the value of opportunity in boxing - by virtue of being a stones throw away from England, your fighters are always going to get more relevant opportunities. A South African middleweight with a similar record to Kell Brook isn't smelling a $5m fight, ever. That's the reason Mexico has more top ten division fighters than the entire continent of Africa.

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:16 pm

CC I take issue with you than belittling South African athletes by calling none of them noteworthy except Pistorious - noteworthy is a rather relate term, and given crickets popularity in the heavily populated sub-continent, I'd take a wager that our entire cricket team are more "noteworthy" on a global scale than Andy Murray, or uh... Ricky Burns

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:24 pm

The Pistorius remark (if it offended you I apologise) was a tongue-in-cheek remark directed at Gerry SA who, if you know these boards, is notorious for singling out and belittling Scottish sportsmen even if they have scaled to great heights in that sport (Di Resta aside). Yes cricketers are renowned on the sub-continent (where did I say it wasn't) and perhaps tennis isn't so big but cricket is largely non-existent in the Americas unlike tennis and a large swathe of Europe so I am sure that levels thing s up as far as Murray's popularity goes. Ricky Burns is another matter though granted but he is a world champion and that deserves a modicum of respect does it not?

by kingraf Sat 01 Mar 2014, 6:43 pm

The Americas have 800 million people From Alaska to the coast of Brazil... the sub continent has 1.5 billion... Cricket is almost National sport in Australia, infinitely more popular than tennis in Sub-Saharan Africa, while neither are particularly large in Western Africa. I believe I'm pretty accurate in stating cricket has a larger global footprint than tennis, so by extension - South African cricketers (who btw are ranked #1 in the world) are obviously more noteworthy than the #6 tennis player, or a boxer with 0 fights outside Britain...

As for Burns - never said a negative word about him... or his popularity. I believe hes rather limited, good on him for maximizing however. Not my style to belittle athletes just to get a rouse.

by AlexHuckerby Sat 01 Mar 2014, 7:02 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:I see that clown Eddie Hearn claims Ricky Burns is the best lightweight in the world.

Sorry to break it to him, but Miguel Vazquez is the boss at lightweight.

Burns is an average fighter and the weakest title holder at 135. I hope Crawford retires him.

Just looked into his record, couldn't believe it. Not only has he lost to Bradley but also CANELO??!

Wowzers, not a criticism, just amazed he fought/lost to guys now at or near the top of their game at much higher weights.

Most thought he actually beat Canelo, supposedly.

by Lance Sat 01 Mar 2014, 7:12 pm

big night for Ricky. he doesnt deseve to be world champion at the moment. even most of his fans agree. but this is a fight that is tough enough to crown a world champion, and if he wins this one, i expect all his problems from the past two fights will be forgotten.

by monzon Sat 01 Mar 2014, 7:17 pm

Y'know, i always thought Gary Player was a talentless c*nt.

by Strongback Sat 01 Mar 2014, 7:29 pm

South Africans generally seem to me to be fiercely proud of their country. Maybe it comes from the time of apartheid, particularly the last few decades, when it seemed like it was S.A. versus the world.

I have noticed that some South Africans, in real life but not on here, can be a bit arrogant and dismissive when it comes to discussing sport and in general. They have no problem bragging. I am reminded of Louis Luyt insulting the All-Blacks unnecessarily.

by Gerry SA Sat 01 Mar 2014, 7:36 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:I see that clown Eddie Hearn claims Ricky Burns is the best lightweight in the world.

Sorry to break it to him, but Miguel Vazquez is the boss at lightweight.

Burns is an average fighter and the weakest title holder at 135. I hope Crawford retires him.

Just looked into his record, couldn't believe it. Not only has he lost to Bradley but also CANELO??!

Wowzers, not a criticism, just amazed he fought/lost to guys now at or near the top of their game at much higher weights.

Most thought he actually beat Canelo, supposedly.

Funny you should say that.

My uncle had the newspaper articles for both fights and both articles favoured Vazquez as the winner.

Also should be noted Canelo massively outweighed Vazquez by around 10/15lbs in both fights

by Steffan Sat 01 Mar 2014, 8:02 pm

Much like the Scottish independence campaign I hope Burns comes good at the end to win it

by compelling and rich Sat 01 Mar 2014, 9:38 pm

groves is fighting froch in a football stadium for a world title while degale is fighting a nobody who's barely fought much past 6 rounders

just goes to show you where a bit of the right attitude will get you

by CaledonianCraig Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:16 pm

Fight Progress:

by TopHat24/7 Mon 03 Mar 2014, 9:57 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Everybody is a journeyman according to you Gerry, makes a mockery of the term when it's used for everyone.

I'm hoping for a Burns win, if he's back on form I think his jab and work rate will be enough for the victory.

Yet he thinks a guy who's lost to the only 3 decent guys he's fought is the bees knees...... Rolling Eyes

by TopHat24/7 Mon 03 Mar 2014, 9:59 am

Gerry SA wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm cricketers and rugby players but how many would be seen as all-time greats and please don't mention Hansie Cronje. And as for Mexico what has that got to do with anything unless you claim dual nationality?
Don't have to claim anything pal.

I have dual nationality.

Well that explains the Vasquez blind ignorance then......

by TopHat24/7 Mon 03 Mar 2014, 10:04 am

Gerry SA wrote:
AlexHuckerby wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:I see that clown Eddie Hearn claims Ricky Burns is the best lightweight in the world.

Sorry to break it to him, but Miguel Vazquez is the boss at lightweight.

Burns is an average fighter and the weakest title holder at 135. I hope Crawford retires him.

Just looked into his record, couldn't believe it. Not only has he lost to Bradley but also CANELO??!

Wowzers, not a criticism, just amazed he fought/lost to guys now at or near the top of their game at much higher weights.

Most thought he actually beat Canelo, supposedly.
Funny you should say that.

My uncle had the newspaper articles for both fights and both articles favoured Vazquez as the winner.

Also should be noted Canelo massively outweighed Vazquez by around 10/15lbs in both fights

1. Your Mexican uncle reading Mexican newspapers, by any chance?

2. No, he outweighed him on fight night, they both made the same weight at weigh in.

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