Carlos Molina

First topic message reminder :

According to Abigail Gomez, a spokeswoman for the Clark County, Nev., Detention Center, Molina is wanted in Wisconsin for obstruction and failing to register as a sex offender. She said he has been placed on an immigration hold. Molina was born in Mexico but lives in the U.S.

Sgt. Dave Lund of the Appleton, Wis., police said Molina is wanted by both the Outagamie, Wis., County Sheriff and the Appleton Police Department. He is wanted by the Outagamie sheriff on the sex offense charge, charges that have been pending since January 2007, Lund said. Appleton police have a misdemeanor disorderly conduct warrant out for Molina from 2005.

I find it difficult to believe they couldn't have made a move on him any time between 2007 and now, it all seems a bit suspect. You have to wonder just how much of an impact this will have on his fight on Saturday as that is still expected to go ahead.

DAVE667 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Trujillo, is that the guy that walks like a crab like something out of one of those old arcade games?

He looks like he could tear Hatfields head off with one hand if he wanted to.  Plus he can play a bit.

Did I mention that the Black Album is a great record, way better then their early stuff.

No, you didn't mention it but there's no need as we already know that you're a stupid little man so informing us of your opinion of the merits of the Black album are unnecessary...but thanks anyway.

Its a great album, I like that song "Wherever I may Roam" but" Nothing Else Matters" is a classic of the genre.

Not a patch on "Fade to Black" or "Welcome Home"

The guitar playing on Nothing else Matters is especially good and at no point do the corny power chords get introduced. It's not a negative theme and the singing is heart felt. Pretty clever song all around and the guitar solo is sweet. It is a love song which makes it a bit different from the slow drawl of death and despair of the slow songs you mentined. It's a bit more grown up which is why so many of the teen fans at the time didn't like it.

It's a classic of what genre because it certainly isn't thrash metal nor is the whole album. It's a good album but poor in comparison to the first four, there's no Master of puppets, one or for whom the bell tolls, three bonafide classics.

Izzi I have no interest in ripping your comments to shreds but proper metal is very rhythmic and melodic, you need to open your ears.

Both Fade and Welcome deal with dark subject matter without resort to tired clichés. Nothing big or clever about Nothing Else Matters that hadn't been done years before.

The fans didn't like it as, much like the rest of the album, it was as close to radio friendly corporate sell out bullsh!t metal as was possible to find without having Backstreet Boys on vocals to give them even wider appeal.

Biggest selling album yet conversely the weakest they recorded to date

Nothing Else Matters is a song that really entered the mainstream like Under the Bridge did for the Red Hot Chilli Peppers around the same time.  If you were to stop people in the street who grew up in the 80's and 90's what is there favourite slow song from a metal/ rock band I have a feeling Nothing Else Matters would be right up there.

I understand trash metal kids didn't like their genre going main stream as that was exactly what they were rebelling against but that doesn't mean the Black Album is the worst thing they have ever recorded. Unforgiven is a very good slow song for instance.

Even after 20 odd years and with Metallica having become caricatures of themselves many times over in the meantime the trash metal kids now in their 40's still haven't mellowed. It must have hurt deep when James let you down.

You're woefully outgunned here Strongy, you're talking about something you have zero knowledge of and I can state that as a fact.

Thrash metal isn't and was never a genre of music that was rebelling against anything, that is something the hardcore scene were doing, a completely different genre of music altogether. Thrash started out as an American alternative to the New Wave of British Heavy Metal and was taking influence from a whole host of bands whether it was Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden or DiamondHead (you'll notice a theme there). Heavy Metal of which thrash is a variant has never been concerned with rebellion or staying underground ever since it's creation in the late 60's it's been a mainstream genre.

With any band throughout history and thrash is no different, the fans who made the band what they are will feel aggrieved when the band they loved sells out. There is a big difference between being mainstream and selling out, the latter involves creating music by number, the lowest common denominator.

If you had ever been to a Metallica concert you will know what songs receive the best reception and it is not Nothing Else Matters it is For Whom the bell tolls and Master of Puppets. The latter entered into the mainstream years before the former, it is not only a thrash classic but a rock classic, along with Maidens Hallowed be thy name is one of the most covered Metal songs there is.

As for the Black Album as a stand alone album it's ok but as a Metallica album it's quite poor and is lyrically very basic something you can blame Bob Rock for. Enter Sandman is the perfect example of that, there's no complexity to the album at all and is very one paced.

Fight's off.

In all of this I feel sorry for Charlo, a world title shot gone up in smoke because of this.

DAVE667 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:So now he's on the sex offender's list as well as the 'crime's against music list'

Lights touch paper sits back and waits for fireworks

Awwww....damp squib...never mind, better luck next time.

Yep, knew there was no chance of the thread being derailed

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're woefully outgunned here Strongy, you're talking about something you have zero knowledge of and I can state that as a fact.

Thrash metal isn't and was never a genre of music that was rebelling against anything, that is something the hardcore scene were doing, a completely different genre of music altogether. Thrash started out as an American alternative to the New Wave of British Heavy Metal and was taking influence from a whole host of bands whether it was Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden or DiamondHead (you'll notice a theme there). Heavy Metal of which thrash is a variant has never been concerned with rebellion or staying underground ever since it's creation in the late 60's it's been a mainstream genre.

With any band throughout history and thrash is no different, the fans who made the band what they are will feel aggrieved when the band they loved sells out. There is a big difference between being mainstream and selling out, the latter involves creating music by number, the lowest common denominator.

If you had ever been to a Metallica concert you will know what songs receive the best reception and it is not Nothing Else Matters it is For Whom the bell tolls and Master of Puppets. The latter entered into the mainstream years before the former, it is not only a thrash classic but a rock classic, along with Maidens Hallowed be thy name is one of the most covered Metal songs there is.

As for the Black Album as a stand alone album it's ok but as a Metallica album it's quite poor and is lyrically very basic something you can blame Bob Rock for. Enter Sandman is the perfect example of that, there's no complexity to the album at all and is very one paced.

I would never try to say I was a trash metal fan or knowledgeable on the subject but I do play the guitar and through reading guitar magazines over the years which include metal guitar players I have picked up a small bit. To be truthful though I have generally laughed at metal in a Spinal Tap kind of way since I was a teenager.

I used to go to a lot of gigs of all types of music but probably only about 10 a year these days. I have seen Metallica four time. Once in the 80's, once on the 90's and twice in the 00's.   They are one of the best live acts I have ever seen which is why I went back to see them again and again.  In saying that the only album I ever owned was the Black Album. I was pretty ill for a few weeks donkeys years ago and I sent my mother out to buy the album so I could learn to play Nothing a Else Matters.  I still pluck out the song every now and then.


It terms of what motivated Metallica I always thought they were trying to blow the American Glam and Hair Metal bands off the stage and into a grave.

What motivated Metallica was being more respected than Megadeth something that failed massively with after the black album, Hetfield and Mustaine have hated eachother ever since the former sacked the latter.

Thrash has never been bothered with the hair metal scene, it was again more of a concern to the hardcore scene or bands like the Melvins, a big influence on Kurt Cobain. Thrash/NWBOHM and Glam were happy living seperate lives until Grunge came and blew them all out of the water then hey presto the black album is released.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:What motivated Metallica was being more respected than Megadeth something that failed massively with after the black album, Hetfield and Mustaine have hated eachother ever since the former sacked the latter.

Thrash has never been bothered with the hair metal scene, it was again more of a concern to the hardcore scene or bands like the Melvins, a big influence on Kurt Cobain. Thrash/NWBOHM and Glam were happy living seperate lives until Grunge came and blew them all out of the water then hey presto the black album is released.

Something I have read from Hetfield a few times is also expressed in an article from Ulimate Guitar, extracts below:


It might sound like a paradox, but according to Metallica's James Hetfield, thrash metal probably wouldn't exist without glam, the very thing most metalheads loathed back in the day.  

As baffling as it may seem at first, the frontman also offered an explanation, saying that it was the immense hate towards the popular '80s glam rock that "fueled a lot of thrash."

When asked by the MK Onderground on whether or not would thrash metal exist without glam, Hetfield answered:  

"Probably not. There was a giant hatred for that that fueled a lot of thrash. Maybe some know the story - Metallica growing up in Los Angeles right in the heart of glam, right at the peak of glam and your Motley Crues, your Ratts, your Poisons, all that stuff was based in L.A. and we were the hated figure, but they were hated even more. We were thrown out of clubs because they thought we were punk rock."

The frontman then discussed the appeal thrash has and the "underground feeling" it gives the listeners, saying, "Whether it's packing our stadiums or being blasted in people's living rooms, it delivers a feeling, it delivers a connection to people who need it. It's that underground feeling. It's the black sheep of music. It's the thing that the misfits are attracted to."  

It's odd that he says that because thrash metal does in fact ever so slightly precede the likes of Motley Crue and Poison, he has a very high opinion of his status in the metal scene. Thrash unfortunately did not start with Metallica no matter how much Hetfield would like to suggest it did nor how much the Americans as whole would like to suggest.

Glam rock and thrash metal tailor to different audiences and whilst it's a nice coincidence that they started up around the same time the significance is overblown. 

I've had many arguments over this and my parting comment will simply be how can two genres that emerged simultaneously result in one forming because of the other?

In my professional opinion that Hetfields final comment is a load of crap, the so called underground feeling cannot be replicated in stadiums or anywhere. It is what it is and the underground metal scene is god awful, after listening to hours of that stuff I came to the conclusion that you don't choose to be underground you're forced to be because you have no appeal.

When Molina was 18 he had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Pleaded guilty to statutory r*** (according to espn).

jimdig wrote:When Molina was 18 he had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Pleaded guilty to statutory r*** (according to espn).

15 or 16. I thought the facts were a bit sketchy in that article.

statutory ra.pe is always a rather messy affair when ages are so close. Doesn't seem to have been in hiding, so it's strange that it's taken this long for him to be cuffed

Strongback wrote:

jimdig wrote:When Molina was 18 he had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Pleaded guilty to statutory r*** (according to espn).

15 or 16. I thought the facts were a bit sketchy in that article.

Got to feel a degree of sympathy for Molina for that, if that's the case then he's not forced anyone to do anything and with them being so close in age think it's a tricky one.

It's certainly a tricky one. How many 16 year old virgins are there? And there's a big difference between an 18 year old having consensual sex (regardless of a particular society's random selection of an age for consent) with their 15/16 year old girlfriend, than an older man grooming them, or obviously anything with an unwilling partner.

Whichever, I don't know the facts here, and someone presumably has shopped him?

Any why are we even discussing this on a metal thread?

milkyboy wrote:It's certainly a tricky one. How many 16 year old virgins are there? And there's a big difference between an 18 year old having consensual sex (regardless of a particular society's random selection of an age for consent) with their 15/16 year old girlfriend, than an older man grooming them, or obviously anything with an unwilling partner.

Whichever, I don't know the facts here, and someone presumably has shopped him?

Any why are we even discussing this on a metal thread?

Because child molestation is rather more tolerable than daves taste in music

I'd never go so so far as to insult Dave... But yes, the inner workings of a child sex case is a considerable upturn from discussing Dave's taste, or rather lack thereof

Strongback wrote:

jimdig wrote:When Molina was 18 he had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Pleaded guilty to statutory r*** (according to espn).

15 or 16. I thought the facts were a bit sketchy in that article.

Agreed strongy, it all seems a bit of a strange one. Molina has had a pretty good profile of late, as a much avoided/hard done by fighter. Getting the name of a class act that's often avoided. With that level of profile how have they not picked him up since 2007?, bizarre really that someone deported that sneaked back into the country fights regularly on TV. I've heard of hiding in plain sight, but that's ridiculous.

kingraf wrote:I'd never go so so far as to insult Dave... But yes, the inner workings of a child sex case is a considerable upturn from discussing Dave's taste, or rather lack thereof

Someone is asking for a smack on the legs or a late night visit from me in my car with the stereo turned up to "F*****G HELL THAT'S LOUD" and an assortment of metal classics hurled into their eardrums.

Dave - I assure you I'm a nice guy... but I'm South African, and therefore not averse to beating up people who have wronged me in real (or imagined) ways.

kingraf wrote:Dave - I assure you I'm a nice guy... but I'm South African, and therefore not averse to beating up people who have wronged me in real (or imagined) ways.

Dave is from bradford - he's much the same way