PGA Tour: All the Presidents (Cup) Men: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Only exhibitions on this week's schedule so let's look back at an event that has also been charitably described as an exhibition - with the odds heavily weighted towards the organizer.
Ah yes, the Presidents Cup!
The USA comfortably beat the International Team at Muirfield Village in 2013, but the members of each Team have "enjoyed" contrasting fortunes since then.

2).Team USA only have 3 x 2014 PGA Tour wins between them, one (Zach Johnson) in a limited field Tournament of Champions, another (Kuchar) by holing a 72nd hole bunker shot and Hunter Mahan's back-from-oblivion Barclays win. What have you done for me lately Messrs Bradley, Dufner, Haas, Mickelson, Simpson (altho' he did have a nice 2013 win in Las Vegas), Snedeker, Spieth (but what a final round master class he produced last Sunday in Sydney), Stricker, Woods?
Wonder how the Gleneagles US Ryder Cuppers will fare? Good starts by Bubba and Spieth, that's for sure.

3).The Internationals haven't done much better but Day and Scott had good wins on two Tours, Kings Charl & Louis did the business in South Africa, while Matsuyama proved that a second trip to Muirfield Village, for the Memorial, was the charm. For him at least. Whilst the biggest surprise might have been Angel Cabrera's win at The Greenbrier. Steady regression though from the De's Jonge & Laet, Els, Grace and Sterne, while Leishman flattered only to deceive.
Sterne, incidentally, is tied bottom of the PGA Tour's web.com Tour graduate reshuffle and will struggle to get in to many Tour fields, plus has lost his Top 50 status. The early favourite among tourists to lose his PGA Tour card.

4).The leaders for each Team for 2015, in South Korea, are:
*USA:
Watson, Walker, Kirk, Furyk, Moore, Kuchar, ZJohnson, Spieth, Horschel, Simpson + 2 x Capatain's Choices. (Still not quite sure how these points are accumulated . . . . )

*International:
Scott, Day, Matsuyama, Schwartzel, Jaidee, Leishman, Senden, DeLaet, Oda, Oosthuizen + 2.

5).web.com Q-School Finals kick off next week and European Tour members are voting with their passports, American David Lipsky being the most notable exception. Rikard Karlberg will be there, mini-Tour veteran Seamus Power from Ireland and Stefan Jaeger too, but no other Europeans that I can spot. Lots of Aussies but the days of European Tour golfers coming over for Q-School seem to be over for now. Not surprisingly.


PS: Let's hope we never lose a Tour Golfer in the freakish circumstances that Cricket lost Phillip Hughes. But, if we do, I wonder if a colleague will provide quite the quality of eulogy delivered today by Michael Clarke? What a moving tribute. Wish we had a Cricket Bat emoticon.

super_realist wrote:What a stupid statement Mac

Really what other British golfer won a major order of merit this season?

Don't two Majors and two Money-Lists count?


Oh, that's right, another funny joke - what a wag.

Rickie Fowler is British, isn't he?

For once and possibly the first and last time I actually agree with Mac .. pube head is a self defined tatty muncher. At a stretch you could call him UKish but British he ain't

I really wasn't trying to be funny, I just mean english, welsh and a scottish players. So with that new definition would anyone offer some evidence to refute the following statement.

Charley Hull had the best 2014 season relative to other players from Scotland, England or Wales?

You mentioned Charley in the context of SPOTY.

In that context, no, she didn't have the best season of any British golfer.
But, if you choose to exclude non-English personalities, bad news for Ian Black and Mary Peters, David Broome and Mark Cavendish, Dai Rees and Ryan Giggs, Andy Murray and Chris Hoy, Calzaghe, Stewart and Liz McColgan.

Your loss, not theirs.

IIRC, Monty won two Geezer Majors.  2nd on the Geezer money list.

Nah, He doesn't count for Mac, he's a Scot. Got it all to do this week though . . . . .

super_realist wrote:What a stupid statement Mac

Chr1st,
Where you bin?

edit: Missed you on here . . . . .

Westwood does a "Harrington" (or a "Westwood") and wins in Thailand.

I liked the 17th hole - unlike at Sawgrass this was a real island green whereto players had to be freighted in a small dingy. Cool.

pedro wrote:I liked the 17th hole

Me too. Really tricky putt from the back of the green to the front where the pin was today. Real possibility of putting off the green.

FFS Kwini

Is it really all that hard to get.

I opened with "Easily the most successful British golfer of the year", in relation to Hull. Someone then pointed out that some might consider NI as part of the UK so I refined the statement to Just the island of Britain. And you still see a problem?

I was unaware of Monty's finish on the senior tour, but having found that out I still maintain that Hull's season is more impressive given that she is only 18 and it was on a main tour.

I have no idea why you take issue with this line of argument unless you think Poulter, Westwood, Donald and co had spectacular seasons?

Just don't understand the prejudice against N.I., that's all.

Westwood must've caught fire, he was +2 when I crashed.

All credit to Westwood today.  Started out a bit rough with two early bogey's and most indications of his recent form might have suggested a middling top-25 finish at best.  

But wow... while our TV coverage missed the "meat" of his great play from #6 on... 5 birdies in a row starting at the 6th and 7 total birdies in the last 12 holes to win by one is golfing your ball.  

Westy just needs another six or seven European based ET events to fall by the wayside and be replaced by more in Asia so he could make another run at #1.

kwinigolfer wrote:Just don't understand the prejudice against N.I., that's all.

Westwood must've caught fire, he was +2 when I crashed.

I have no prejudice against N.I, but if you really want to have the non debate of what golfer from GB&NI had the best season then so be it. Hint: the answer is R-mac.

Or we could have the more interesting debate about what golfer from the Island of Britain had the best year. Your insistence on going down the ad hominem route when addressing my posts is really stifling debate. Answer the question and don't attack the poster.

Pleased for lw1 but he's GOT to start doing it on his home Tours. He gets more flak for winning in Asia than he would for mailing it in.

Kaymer back from the wilderness and Fraser fit at last; one or two traditionally journeyman Aussies having very good weeks, whether in Thailand or SP!
And two guys who don't seem destined to succeed outside of Asia:
Scott Hend and Walker Cup winning-putt-maker Jonathan Moore earn top 6's.

kwinigolfer wrote:Pleased for lw1 but he's GOT to start doing it on his home Tours. He gets more flak for winning in Asia than he would for mailing it in.

I like Lee... IMO his biggest problem is he is what he is.  While I know many perceive him as an underachiever, I actually see him as one that has gotten close to the most out of his talents.... some of his issues in majors not withstanding.

I thought Coco had declared to RoI? Therefore he shouldn't win anything to do with either Britain or UK

Apples and oranges isn't it Davie?
He's British, nothing he can do about that unless he chooses to change his citizenship.
The fact that he's got this Olympic cop out is ridiculous, but he's just as British as, say, Mary Peters was when she won the SPOTY, or McCoy.

I know where you're coming from though, but you can't pick and choose your citizenship except via process.

OK... OK.... every time I think I know, I see a series of posts that confuse me all over. So once and for all... could someone please clarify for this American what constitutes:

United Kingdom vs Britain vs Great Britain... and who's British and who's not.

Robo - Britain tends to be more a geographical term (rather than political) for the mainland island comprising England Scotland and Wales.

The full title for UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - so including the northern part of the island known as Ireland

The remainder of the island of Ireland is variously known as Eire or Republic of Ireland (RoI) - I'm not sure what name they prefer but I'm sure someone will tell us

So British means more a geographical thing and generally speaking includes England, Scotland and Wales. UK includes N.Ireland. Eire is not a part of the union and is totally independent (apart from handouts from the EU)

So strictly and pedantically speaking, Rory isn't "British", but could be considered UK - but if/when he represents then RoI then he is not representing either GB or UK

As far as SPOTY is concerned if he declares for RoI in 2016 Olympics and should he win it, he'd be eligible for the overseas personality, but not the main award

kwinigolfer wrote:Apples and oranges isn't it Davie?
He's British, nothing he can do about that unless he chooses to change his citizenship.
The fact that he's got this Olympic cop out is ridiculous, but he's just as British as, say, Mary Peters was when she won the SPOTY, or McCoy.

I know where you're coming from though, but you can't pick and choose your citizenship except via process.

Went a few months with sporadic web access Kwini, been browsing on here for the past few weeks before making my presence known again.

Robo, the country recognised by the UN etc is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" aka the UK. Great Britain is the big island which makes up mainland England, Scotland and Wales. "Britain" is used as shorthand for "Great Britain", and "British" is technically anything or anyone from Great Britain. However, because there's no such word as United-Kingdomish, British is commonly used to refer to the whole of the UK as well, including Northern Ireland. Anyone from NI is automatically a UK citizen, however they can also apply for a RoI passport too.


Wait for someone to contradict all this now....

Meanwhile Willett is looking value for a Masters place I think? Spectacular blowout from Bjerregaard

Touch and go whether Bjerregaard breaks 50 for his back nine.

Good to see Willett at last fulfilling some of his potential - will he kick on now he has a chance?

Oosthuizen should also be in the Top 50, not that he needs it, yet. Quite the traffic jam between the mid 40's and mid 50's.

Bjerregaard with a 50. It all started on 7 with a ball just rolling into the water for a triple. And then I think it's fair to use the word 'choke', reminiscent of a typecast British English player.

Does Britain include the smaller inhabited like Isle of Mann, Guernsey, Jersey, Shetland Islands, etc.

YES!
And the Isle Of Wight.
And even the Isle of Dogs.

Pigs ear by Willett - six over par in his final three holes - must be a knee trembler as to whether he's OK for Augusta . . . . .

Jersey and Guernsey are NOT part of the UK - they are British Crown dependencies

The others are part of Great Britain (so is the WHOLE of the island of Ireland) - just Britain (without the "Great") is the main island comprising just England, Scotland and Ireland as I said before

As previously stated, Britain and Great Britain are more considered Geographical terms rather then political or nationalistic

McLaren wrote:I would still like evidence that a captain has any use in a golf event, beyond picking how tees it up when.

Mac. See 2014 Ryder Cup @ Gleneagles. Have you really got that short a memory?

So what hypothetical Olympic team would a person from Jersey or Guernsey represent if they were good enough?

Plenty of Channel Islanders have played footie for England . . . . . and surely we can claim Ted Ray and Harry Vardon, freakier in their own way that Nelson and Hogan.

Davie wrote:I  thought Coco had declared to RoI? Therefore he shouldn't win anything to do with either Britain or UK

Not ROI, just some quasi geo political made up amalgamation of 2 minor countries that feel the need to express their ness in regards to sport. e.g. Irish Rugby Team.

There is no roi olympic team. Its an all ireland olympic team. Which is why almost every northern irish athlete represents Ireland. Every sport is all ireland except football. I hate ignorant gobshites who say mcilroys reperesenting ireland therefor hes not British as if its that simple. NI is one of the most complicated places around when it comes to identity.

Here's a Telegraph piece about a young up-and-comer I knew little about until he showed up on the web.com Q-School leaderbaord:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/10862652/Rising-Stars-How-Greg-Eason-went-from-a-life-in-construction-to-the-third-best-amateur-golfer-in-the-world.html

Currently sitting along with Seamus Power in the Top dozen, two rounds still to play.

Canadian Brad Fritsch leading and I hope it stays that way. Very unfortunate with injuries these past two years or he might still have his PGA Tour card.


skiddy,
That may very well be, but plenty of Northern Irish have done well for GB in the Olympics, one even won SPOTY.

skiddy wrote:There is no roi olympic team. Its an all ireland olympic team. Which is why almost every northern irish athlete represents Ireland. Every sport is all ireland except football. I hate ignorant gobshites who say mcilroys reperesenting ireland therefor hes not British as if its that simple. NI is one of the most complicated places around when it comes to identity.

To be clear my point was nothing to do with whether or not McIlroy is british/irish/whatever, I was just trying to create a category that would be more interesting to debate. But apparently it is not as kwini has failed to respond to who he thinks the best golfer from the island of Britain was in 2014?

Academic question mac.

Pedro

Really?

Ok, but does pose any more interest for you. If an 18 year old male had won the race to dubai would they have been nominated for SPOTY?

I think Ned and super have said all that's needed to be said, Mac . . . . .

SPOTY only open to GB&I athletes?

Athletes and those who do pony jumping.

That's right; but there's an overseas award which is somewhat coveted.

kwini

So you think a fight over how the term British is defined is a productive way to rate someone who has won and order of merit seasons? If it really helps drop the notion of nationality and tell me how you think Hulls season compared to Rose, Poulter, Westwood, Donald, Willet, Laird, Donaldson, matthew, Davies, Ewart Shadoff's seasons?

I certainly wouldn't say it matches Rose's season. But don't honestly know what that's got to do with your original question.

Mac,
Perhaps you'll support Rory for the Overseas Personality?

Kwini

How many times can it be pointed out that it is a pretty pointless debate to ask which British - in the broadest sense - golfer had the best 2014 season, as Rory is the obvious answer. As most of us on here are from England is it such a crime to consider which player from this region had the best season.

And correct me if this is wrong, but are you not the one who writes a blog that details how golfers from a certain geographical region are performing? So I really don't get what is bugging you so much about considering how golfers from a slightly tighter region performed.


If anyone cares, I think winning an order of merit in one of the worlds top tours at 18 is pretty remarkable and easily outshines roses season.

The why not ask who's been the second most successful British (in the broadest sense) golfer?
In these new-speak times it's a bit more inclusive isn't it.

Does Justin Rose count, or is he classified by Mac as South African?

The fun continues...
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/love-lehman-unveil-more-details-initial-task-force-meeting/

Some good points, but this quote is evidence that the Americans still don't get it:
Predictably, Woods and Mickelson were two of the loudest voices on the conference call.
“Tiger took charge. Raymond took charge, Phil took charge. We have guys who are very confident, very smart and sure of themselves. Somebody is going to step up and be the leader of this thing and that’s what we need,” said Love, the 2012 captain.

Consensus seems to be that Love was a fine Captain, though his Sunday batting order seems to belie that.

I don't believe Woods understands anything about "Team", can't for the life of me comprehend why he would have been on the call - mostly it just seems to be the loudest voices, or those casting the longest shadows.

pedro wrote:The fun continues...
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/love-lehman-unveil-more-details-initial-task-force-meeting/

Some good points, but this quote is evidence that the Americans still don't get it:
Predictably, Woods and Mickelson were two of the loudest voices on the conference call.
“Tiger took charge. Raymond took charge, Phil took charge. We have guys who are very confident, very smart and sure of themselves. Somebody is going to step up and be the leader of this thing and that’s what we need,” said Love, the 2012 captain.

Don't know exactly how one can suggest the American's still don't get it, because we don't know who was saying what.  But still, IMO which ever one(s) might have said: "this committee is mostly useless, unless it comes up with a way to convince our spineless finger-pointing players that the responsibility to win the RC rests with them and nobody else", is the one that "gets it".   That one, and the one that had Freddie's most current phone number... :-)

Kwini....  and as for Love's captaincy... Only with 20-20 hindsight do I find much to criticize his Sunday Singles order...  Seems to me Love's problem Sunday was probably Saturday night where his players probably played their proper "its not over til its over" roles in front of him... but deep down inside they still thought it WAS over... thus unprepared for the Europe onslaught the next day. I just don't see what the order had to do with it.