England senior training squad and Saxons announcement

Just to keep it in one place at the top of its own thread.

Forwards

Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)  

Backs

Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

No Webber or Wade.

England Saxons squad

Forwards

Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Christian Day (Northampton Saints)  
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)
Matt Garvey (Bath Rugby)
Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby)
Thomas Waldrom (Exeter Chiefs)
Alex Waller (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, captain)
Chris Pennell (Worcester Warriors)
Joe Simpson (Wasps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Christian Wade (Wasps)

Not much to get upset over. Cips and Easter in. Contentious issues that I can see dont cover 1st choices, so you have Tom Youngs over Webber, and Wigglesworth over Dickson, but given the injuries its pretty much as anyone would expect.

Only personal gripe is back up full back but then with Foden out I guess it always was going to be Goode with possibly Watson/ Nowell as options. I really don't like seeing Goode at FB at this level.

Webber is what stood out to me too, surely 3 hookers is not excessive for a senior squad

Garvey in the Saxons. That'll cheer a few people up

Actually that Saxons line up looks like it could be pretty useful

WAIT!! GARVEY IS IN AN ENGLAND SQUAD!!!

BamBam wrote:Webber is what stood out to me too, surely 3 hookers is not excessive for a senior squad

Only two in a 34 man squad does seem madness when you consider what a key position it is, and you know Hartley will have a rush of blood to his little head at some point.

I wonder whether some players will do better if they play a blinder for the Saxons than those selected for the main squad who don't make the matchday 23.

I see Gatland has had a dig already, expects us to kick the leather off the ball at the MS!

Saxons team I would like to see

Waller, Webber, Brookes
Garvey, Day
Croft, Kvesic, Ewers

Simpson, Slade
Burgess, Daly
Wade, Pennell, Yarde

I wonder if SL sees Garvey as a lock rather than flanker, which would fit in to what everyone says about him not fitting the athletic Wood/Robshaw mould, and given our previous depth at lock would explain why he hasn't been in any squads

Maybe there hasn't been a massive conspiracy keeping him out after all

TightHEAD wrote:

BamBam wrote:Webber is what stood out to me too, surely 3 hookers is not excessive for a senior squad

Only two in a 34 man squad does seem madness when you consider what a key position it is, and you know Hartley will have a rush of blood to his little head at some point.

Lancaster's always got the option to call up an extra hooker if one gets injured or banned. It's not as if the Saxons and main squad don't train together.

Hartley will be fine. We are going to be back to hiding behind the sofa for the first couple of lineouts when Youngs comes on though.

lostinwales wrote:Hartley will be fine. We are going to be back to hiding behind the sofa for the first couple of lineouts when Youngs comes on though.

Fixed for you

On the topic of full back didn't Joseph make quite a few starts for Irish at 15? Or have I misremembered

BamBam wrote:Saxons team I would like to see

Waller, Webber, Brookes
Garvey, Day
Croft, Kvesic, Ewers

Simpson, Slade
Burgess, Daly
Wade, Pennell, Yarde

Dickson is captain so will start.

You're right he did,I think that's why he left

Best shelve that plan then

Welly wrote:

BamBam wrote:Saxons team I would like to see

Waller, Webber, Brookes
Garvey, Day
Croft, Kvesic, Ewers

Simpson, Slade
Burgess, Daly
Wade, Pennell, Yarde

Dickson is captain so will start.

Ah, fair enough, still works fine IMO with Dickson over Simpson

What are the chances that Itoje gets some gametime?

Good squads. Can't be too many complaints.

Nice to see Itoje there to get some experience.

Bambam surely he's at least on the bench as Itoje,Day and Garvey are the only lock options?

Actually I am quite happy with the squads, and I think there are good players in the Saxons.  On reflection what seems odds is to have four FH's in the senior squad.  Which sorts of means Slade would be the obvious choice for the Saxons, but most people would like to see him at centre.

Is Ross Harrison any good?

True beshocked, although I wonder if they might use Croft as a lock option (although I bloody hope not). Would be good to see Itoje in that environment, plenty of experience with the likes of Day and Webber to help him out

Slade is always going to end up as a 10 IMO, so not a bad selection at 10 by any means. Its always possible that one of the 10s from the senior squad ends up playing 10 for the Saxons which might lead to Slade at 13, which was strongly rumoured a week or 2 ago

Harrison seems to play a lot of games for Sale, and their scrum is never that bad so he can't be terrible! Auterac would have been in for me though

Croft won't be a lock option, Garvey and Itoje will be the other locks.

Feel for Kvesic has been given a fair chance yet for enlgand imo.

Would have him ahead of Clarke, Esp with Haskell in.

bambam I hope Croft isn't used as a lock.


Surely Slade is a 10 who can play in the centres?

You're right Auterac might feel hard done by.

just noticed Auterac isn't in the squad :o

No Burns either - but he did get a mention.

Falcons wont be that happy about recognition for their players, but might be about the lack of squad disruption.

Huray.....finally GARVEY is in....

However now to my second rant.....

WHAT THE F*$K does Mark Wilson have to do to make the Saxons??

So to break it down by likely position:

Props
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)

Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Locks
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)

Flankers
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

No. 8
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Scrum Halves
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Fly Halves
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)

Centres
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)

Wing
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Full Back
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Alex Goode (Saracens)

And by Team? Forwards+Backs (I've assumed everyone can add up for the total )

Bath 2+4
Exeter 0+1
Gloucester 0+2
Harlequins 3+2
Leicester 4+1
Northampton 4+2
Sale 0+1
Saracens 3+4
Wasps 1+0

GeordieFalcon wrote:Huray.....finally GARVEY is in....

However now to my second rant.....

WHAT THE F*$K does Mark Wilson have to do to make the Saxons??

Play for someone else? Gone are the days when Newcastle provide the half the England team (they've been robbed).

I did numbers in main and saxon squads by team
Newcastle 0/1
Bath 6/5
Saints 6/3
Tigers 5/1
Quins 5/1
Wasps 1/4
Saracens 7/2
Sale 1/1
Gloucs 2/1
Exeter 1/4
worcs 0/1

lostinwales wrote:No Burns either - but he did get a mention.

Falcons wont be that happy about recognition for their players, but might be about the lack of squad disruption.

In all honesty mate I wouldn't be shouting for many. Brookes is an obvious one but for Mark Wilson is sheer class...and that's not just bias. He is everything you want in a flanker - and fits Lancasters prototype perfectly....constant motion/ workrate etc....tough as old boots.

How he is not in the Saxons squad is unbelievable.

Also is Lancaster banking a lot on the fitness and form of Cole and Corbs...two guys out for long periods. ??

Is it wise to rush Cole back in?

HammerofThunor wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Huray.....finally GARVEY is in....

However now to my second rant.....

WHAT THE F*$K does Mark Wilson have to do to make the Saxons??

Play for someone else? Gone are the days when Newcastle provide the half the England team (they've been robbed).

Play for another team? Why should he have to?

I don't want us to fill half the England side...it cripples us...but a bit of recognition for one of the best and most consistant back rowers in the prem wouldn't go amiss....

I see he finally saw the light with Garvey however

GeordieFalcon wrote:Also is Lancaster banking a lot on the fitness and form of Cole and Corbs...two guys out for long periods. ??

Is it wise to rush Cole back in?

They are not going to be first choice to start with. I do have questions about Corbs being included at all, as he has played so little in such a long time, brilliant though he can be.

There are 2 pretty good squads there, not much to complain about at all. I don't see the logic of having 4 FH's in the senior squad and only 2 hookers though, unless calling up Cips was just a sop to the media. Alex Goode's reappearance is slightly worrying...

Interesting that Garvey is presumably in the Saxons as a lock, unless Kitchener/Kruis will drop down for that game.

shame not to see Gibson in the saxons, even just for the experiance

Saxons I would like to see -
Waller, Webber, Brookes
Garvey, Day,
Ewers, Kvesic, Waldrom

Dickson
Slade
Yarde
Burgess
Devoto
Wade
Daly


Full side -
Marler, Youngs, Wilson
Attwood, Parling
Robshaw, Haskell, Vaunipola
Care,
Ford
May,
Eastmond, Joseph
Nowell
Brown

The actual teams selected will be nothing like that probably. I love the fact that we could possibly find ourselves in the situation where we can start a front row of Marler, Youngs, Wilson and then replace it completely with Corbis, Hartley, Cole with very little drop in quality and possibly a huge impact with fresh legs.

Callum Clarke....once again in there!
Yarde dropping down reflects his drop in form for Quins.
Easter in is fantastic and hopefully he gets a chance.
Joseph has been on fire recently and deserves another shot....he's a fav of Catt back from his LI days.

Day in the saxons....at 31 is a bit against the selection policy for SL - but with Both Launchbury and Lawes injured I guess he is in there for the expirenced head, possibly selected with Itoje

Is Will Fraser injured again?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Also is Lancaster banking a lot on the fitness and form of Cole and Corbs...two guys out for long periods. ??

Is it wise to rush Cole back in?

Odd he's picked Cole when he's out again with a foot injury this time. Clearly reckons he'll be ok for Cardiff although i'd have had Brookes in the Seniors to cover him. Good shoot out in the Saxons between Brookes and Thomas though. Thomas was superb with Auterac on the w/end.

BamBam wrote:Is Will Fraser injured again?

Yes.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Huray.....finally GARVEY is in....

However now to my second rant.....

WHAT THE F*$K does Mark Wilson have to do to make the Saxons??

Play for someone else? Gone are the days when Newcastle provide the half the England team (they've been robbed).

Play for another team? Why should he have to?

I don't want us to fill half the England side...it cripples us...but a bit of recognition for one of the best and most consistant back rowers in the prem wouldn't go amiss....

I see he finally saw the light with Garvey however

Sorry. It was a (bad taste) joke. Although that seems to be the way it is percieved by some players (and based on selection it's not far off the truth).

can't really have any complaints in the squad. A bit surprised Webber isn't there, seems Youngs has overtaken him (fair enough) but only two hookers is a little odd IMO. The big questions from this squad are the starting centres, and to a lesser extent Haskell/Wood.

A little surprised the Saxons haven't picked any specialist FHs, but maybe Lancaster is planning to pick one from the senior squad to cover there...

re: 4 fh's I wonder if there are any doubts about anyone's fitness or (horror) Farrell is being considered for center instead..

Saxons have Slade MFC but there'll be someone dropping out of the 1st team squad no doubt.

HammerofThunor wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Huray.....finally GARVEY is in....

However now to my second rant.....

WHAT THE F*$K does Mark Wilson have to do to make the Saxons??

Play for someone else? Gone are the days when Newcastle provide the half the England team (they've been robbed).

Play for another team? Why should he have to?

I don't want us to fill half the England side...it cripples us...but a bit of recognition for one of the best and most consistant back rowers in the prem wouldn't go amiss....

I see he finally saw the light with Garvey however

Sorry. It was a (bad taste) joke. Although that seems to be the way it is percieved by some players (and based on selection it's not far off the truth).

Got to say I was very impressed with Wilson when he played at Franklin's Gardens. The only thing I would say is that there's a glut of those sort of hard-working athletic flankers around at the moment and i'd still have those currently in the squad slightly ahead of him/on par.

We do need to remember its one squad really...and he'll just move players from one to the other as requirement works.


In actually fact he can select from all four of the hookers in the (two) squads Hartley, Youngs, Webber, LCD.

Surely 36 has dropped down the pecking order......I cant remember the last time that he had an exceptional game. And surely you need exceptional performances to be selected for the national side/squad.

12/13's who have had standout performances -
Slade, Eastmond, Joseph, Barritt, Burrell, Devoto too

No 7&1/2 wrote:Saxons have Slade MFC but there'll be someone dropping out of the 1st team squad no doubt.

I know, but Slade has been mostly playing centre this season, and there were strong rumours that the saxons were going to line up with him and Burgess in there. On the four fly-halves in the main set-up, I suspect Lancaster wants to see both Myler and Cipriani up close in training, there is after all a very strong chance that Ford and Farrell are going to go to the WC as 1 and 2, which leaves Cipriani and Myler battling it out for the remaining spot.