Cardiff Blues Season Thread 3 - Danny Wilson Appointed Head Coach

[wales606]

First topic message reminder :

Prop
Gethin Jenkins, Taufa'ao Filise, Craig Mitchell, Sam Hobbs, Scott Andrews, Thomas Davies, Dillon Lewis

Hooker
Matthew Rees, Kristian Dacey, Rhys Williams, Ethan Lewis

2nd Row
Jarrad Hoeata, James Down, Lou Reed, Chris Dicomidis, Miles Normandale

Flanker
Sam Warburton, Josh Turnbull, Macauley Cook, Ellis Jenkins, Josh Navidi, Jevon Groves, Ben Roach

Eight
Manoa Vosawai

Scrum half
Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams, Lewis Jones, Tomos Williams

Fly half
Rhys Patchell, Gareth Anscombe, Gareth Davies, Jarrod Evans, Will Thomas

Centre
Cory Allen, Gavin Evans, Richard Smith, Tom Pascoe, Adam Thomas, Garyn Smith, Ray Lee-Lo

Wing
Alex Cuthbert, Harry Davies, Owen Jenkins, Chris Knight, Tom Williams, Tom James

Full back
Blaine Scully, Dan Fish, Geraint Walsh, Aled Summerhill

[PhilBB]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

Spot on, sir.

[Cardiff Dave]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

Spot on, sir.

Just stating the bleeding.
Any clues as to why the club continues with the "bloos" suffix, coz I don't get it. Thought it was daft to begin with and wouldn't last, but it has for some reason.

[PhilBB]

Just stating the bleeding.
Any clues as to why the club continues with the "bloos" suffix, coz I don't get it. Thought it was daft to begin with and wouldn't last, but it has for some reason.

RSA obligation to highlight how the club has grown to run a development pathway as a Regional Organisation member of the WRU. It's stuck now.

[Steffan]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

[PhilBB]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

You're right, at the present, but if you want to know what it is like watching your club in two European Cup Finals then I'd be happy to let you know all about it.

[Steffan]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

You're right, at the present, but if you want to know what it is like watching your club in two European Cup Finals then I'd be happy to let you know all about it.

True. My team only been to one European final

[PhilBB]

True. My team only been to one European final

That marks you as a Caerphilly or Pontypridd supporter. Either way, my sympathies.

[Cardiff Dave]

Just stating the bleeding.
Any clues as to why the club continues with the "bloos" suffix, coz I don't get it. Thought it was daft to begin with and wouldn't last, but it has for some reason.

RSA obligation to highlight how the club has grown to run a development pathway as a Regional Organisation member of the WRU. It's stuck now.

Things can be un-stuck though, like polystyrene ceiling tiles and shewerly the club could carry on doing what they're doing without the divisive moniker?
Watched the 7s show on ITV4 this evening. Just "Cardiff" and just "Newport" were mentioned a lot by the English highlights commentator.

[Cardiff Dave]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

Crap at 7s too mun.

[Cardiff Dave]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

You're right, at the present, but if you want to know what it is like watching your club in two European Cup Finals then I'd be happy to let you know all about it.

True. My team only been to one European final

Your pro team is Cardiff now Steff. Tis written, so embrace it.

[Stone Motif]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

That lend you all your best players

[PhilBB]

Things can be un-stuck though, like polystyrene ceiling tiles and shewerly the club could carry on doing what they're doing without the divisive moniker?
Watched the 7s show on ITV4 this evening. Just "Cardiff" and just "Newport" were mentioned a lot by the English highlights commentator.

I don't think that there is the desire at Board Level to rock the boat that much just yet. Let's see what Walter's replacement as CEO will favour.

[Cardiff Dave]

Things can be un-stuck though, like polystyrene ceiling tiles and shewerly the club could carry on doing what they're doing without the divisive moniker?
Watched the 7s show on ITV4 this evening. Just "Cardiff" and just "Newport" were mentioned a lot by the English highlights commentator.

I don't think that there is the desire at Board Level to rock the boat that much just yet. Let's see what Walter's replacement as CEO will favour.

Just remembered that it's Cardiff Blues Ltd now isn't it? Why the change? I'm baffled.

[Cardiff Dave]

Things can be un-stuck though, like polystyrene ceiling tiles and shewerly the club could carry on doing what they're doing without the divisive moniker?
Watched the 7s show on ITV4 this evening. Just "Cardiff" and just "Newport" were mentioned a lot by the English highlights commentator.

I don't think that there is the desire at Board Level to rock the boat that much just yet. Let's see what Walter's replacement as CEO will favour.

Hope he favours club colours, crests, history and heritage. People like that sort of thing in general and they buy into it as a result. Toulouse have a nice shop. Cardiff should have the same in my opinion if you know what I mean.

[PhilBB]

Just remembered that it's Cardiff Blues Ltd now isn't it? Why the change? I'm baffled.

Lewis insisted that the RSA was signed by the company that held the IP rights for the competing team. Previously, Cardiff buried that in a dormant 'Cardiff Blues Ltd' wholly owned by Cardiff RFC ltd. You can see that Lewis was scared that each of the four could easily have signed up to the HoT with the English under Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli and Newport, so he put that clause in.

It's utterly meaningless, of course.

[Steffan]

Your pro team is Cardiff now Steff. Tis written, so embrace it.

Erm......naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Steffan]

Blues and Rags. The first team and the second team.
One club still, so what's the diff?

One is a crap team in the Pro 12 that wins sod all and the other is a crap team in the Welsh Premiership that wins sod all

That lend you all your best players

What you mean players like Dan Godfrey and Dafydd Lockyear who made the list of best Premiership players never to play "regional rugby"...

Or the 300+ game veteran Wayne O'Connor? Matthew Nutall who has been more consistent than any other fullback/wing over the last few seasons

Which faction of the Blues will Ceri Sweeney be loaned out from then?

This doesn't quite equate to ALL the best players

[PhilBB]

What you mean players like Dan Godfrey and Dafydd Lockyear who made the list of best Premiership players never to play "regional rugby"...

Or the 300+ game veteran Wayne O'Connor? Matthew Nutall who has been more consistent than any other fullback/wing over the last few seasons

Which faction of the Blues will Ceri Sweeney be loaned out from then?

This doesn't quite equate to ALL the best players

You're right, plus there is very little lending going on at the moment....

I was surprised that Godfrey didn't get even a first team bench spot in a friendly or wherever when he played for the club, mind you.

[Coleman]

Navidi has extended his contract. Great news!

[PhilBB]

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk/editorials/what-who-is-cardiff-the-blues-cardiff-blues-blues/

Time for honesty.

[LordDowlais]

Cardiff have never denied they are anything other than Cardiff, this Blues bollox needs to stop now. I am not going to get into this, but I go and watch this pigs ear of a region more than any other team in Wales, the fans down there want nothing to do with the rest of Wales, they just want to be Cardiff, nothing more nothing less. The suits might tell us a different story, but trust me it is all bullcrap, Cardiff Blues will always be Cardiff, I have no issues with this, but lets just stop all the smoke and mirrors. It will be a relief to here the truth.

[SecretFly]

Seems we're always in KitKat territory on this one, Lord.

Is it a biscuit or a bar?

[LordDowlais]

Seems we're always in KitKat territory on this one, Lord.

Is it a biscuit or a bar?

Not for me. They are Cardiff RFC, nothing more nothing less. If you aver get the chance go there, watch a game and ask the fans down there what they think, they will tell you that the Blues name is bollox, they are Cardiff and always will be. Or go on their website and have a look at their blogs and forum, if you get passed the Ponty bashing you will see how they only want to be Cardiff.

But just for people to know, I personally do not have a problem with this, I have a problem with the smoke and mirrors, and how they want to be a region blah,blah,blah. Just tell the friggin truth mun.

[PhilBB]

But just for people to know, I personally do not have a problem with this, I have a problem with the smoke and mirrors, and how they want to be a region blah,blah,blah. Just tell the friggin truth mun.

You were right up to this point.

They are a Regional Organisation Member of the WRU as defined in the Articles of Association. Therefore, that qualifies for them for the shorthand of being a 'region'. In essence, they are a standalone club running a development pathway - just like Llanelli.

[LordDowlais]

But just for people to know, I personally do not have a problem with this, I have a problem with the smoke and mirrors, and how they want to be a region blah,blah,blah. Just tell the friggin truth mun.

You were right up to this point.

They are a Regional Organisation Member of the WRU as defined in the Articles of Association. Therefore, that qualifies for them for the shorthand of being a 'region'. In essence, they are a standalone club running a development pathway - just like Llanelli.

Then why don't they just come out and say that then ? You know this, the fans know this, yet Peter Thomas and his cronies and the WRU will keep trying to tell us that they are a region. Truth be told, they want sod all to do with anything north of Tongwynlias, yet everybody and their dog on here expects us valley oiks to show our support to them, this is what boils my pee when I see people on here having a go at Pontypridd, when truth be told, the situation is just as bad from Cardiff. Now I am not saying Cardiff Blues are not trying to change this situation, but why would a Pontypridd supporter go and rub shoulders with fans who do not want them there ? The fans down at the Arms park flat refuse to call the team Blues or Cardiff Blues, as far as they are concerned it is Cardiff, and nothing else.

I have moved on from all this, I support Welsh rugby, and Blues are the easiest for me because my old man has always supported Cardiff, and it is convenient for me to watch the game as my wife and daughters go about their shopping and bites to eat in the big smoke, they know nothing about rugby, but they love Cardiff as a city for shopping and socialising. On a Friday night, it is easy for one of either me my brother or my father to jump in the car and drive thirty odd minutes down the A470 to watch a game, trouble is, it never seems to be my fathers turn to drive, so he always gets to have a pint.

[PhilBB]

Then why don't they just come out and say that then ? You know this, the fans know this, yet Peter Thomas and his cronies and the WRU will keep trying to tell us that they are a region. Truth be told, they want sod all to do with anything north of Tongwynlias, yet everybody and their dog on here expects us valley oiks to show our support to them, this is what boils my pee when I see people on here having a go at Pontypridd, when truth be told, the situation is just as bad from Cardiff. Now I am not saying Cardiff Blues are not trying to change this situation, but why would a Pontypridd supporter go and rub shoulders with fans who do not want them there ? The fans down at the Arms park flat refuse to call the team Blues or Cardiff Blues, as far as they are concerned it is Cardiff, and nothing else.

I have moved on from all this, I support Welsh rugby, and Blues are the easiest for me because my old man has always supported Cardiff, and it is convenient for me to watch the game as my wife and daughters go about their shopping and bites to eat in the big smoke, they know nothing about rugby, but they love Cardiff as a city for shopping and socialising. On a Friday night, it is easy for one of either me my brother or my father to jump in the car and drive thirty odd minutes down the A470 to watch a game, trouble is, it never seems to be my fathers turn to drive, so he always gets to have a pint.

Well, there's a lot of nonsense in that piece. So let's break it down:

1. Being a standalone club doesn't, by definition, prevent Cardiff Blues from being a region as the WRU define it. The fact that the club is a Regional Organisation member of the WRU rather underlines this. Therefore, being a club and a region is not mutually exclusive.

2. The idea that the club wants nothing to do with the area north of Tongwynlais is rather undone by the investment into the Development Pathway for those clubs. We have Club Representatives in place, a large investment into the Blues North Academy structure, previously a 6 figure wages investment into Pontypridd RFC in recent seasons. Unfortunately, the facts rather disprove your sentiment.

3. If everybody and their dog on 'here' expects anybody to support a team simply because of their post code or affiliation with another team, then 'everybody and their dog' are utter muppets.

4. There is no 'situation just as bad from Cardiff'. We have held out numerous olive branches to that club over recent years, heavily invested in that club with free players and provided a Head Coach just so that it can meet its A licence obligations. In return? Just pure prejudice, ignorance and bloody mindedness.

5. I'd welcome anybody at Cardiff Arms Park who wants to come to support Cardiff Blues. I wouldn't care if they were from Llanelli, Llantrisant or Lesotho.

[LordDowlais]

PhilBB, do you actually go to watch them ? Because I do, quite often, and I can tell you this, the locals want nothing to do with anything outside of Cardiff. O.K they accept that people like me and my family will go there, but the ignorance from them of any knowledge about the valleys is overwhelming. Guess were I got my username from ? I got it from the lads down at the Arms Park, because I drive a nice car and have a little disposable income they have all come to the agreement that I must be a Lord of the realm up in Merthyr, and the only place they know in Merthyr is Dowlais, so for a bit of banter that is what they called me, and my brother and father have other regal names as well.

Despite what the suits do or say, the fans down at the capital will not/do not/will never want anything other than to be just Cardiff, and no matter what you can say about olive branches and cash injections, until the fans from Cardiff accept what the region is trying to do it might as well just be Cardiff RFC. Hears a thought, instead of trying to convince everybody outside of Cardiff that our region are Blues, why don't they try and convince the Cardiff people first ?

[PhilBB]

PhilBB, do you actually go to watch them ? Because I do, quite often, and I can tell you this, the locals want nothing to do with anything outside of Cardiff. O.K they accept that people like me and my family will go there, but the ignorance from them of any knowledge about the valleys is overwhelming. Guess were I got my username from ? I got it from the lads down at the Arms Park, because I drive a nice car and have a little disposable income they have all come to the agreement that I must be a Lord of the realm up in Merthyr, and the only place they know in Merthyr is Dowlais, so for a bit of banter that is what they called me, and my brother and father have other regal names as well.

Despite what the suits do or say, the fans down at the capital will not/do not/will never want anything other than to be just Cardiff, and no matter what you can say about olive branches and cash injections, until the fans from Cardiff accept what the region is trying to do it might as well just be Cardiff RFC. Hears a thought, instead of trying to convince everybody outside of Cardiff that our region are Blues, why don't they try and convince the Cardiff people first ?

I've been a season ticket holder at CAP for about 30 years. I live outside of Cardiff, have rarely lived in Cardiff.

The 'region' is running a development pathway, nothing more. Regional rugby is club based, not supporter based. Anybody who is trying to convince you that you have a pro team simply because of where you live is somebody who shouldn't be listened to.

The role with Pontypridd was for them to become the focus point for the Academy talent in the 'North' to trickle into whilst on development and Academy contracts. It has nothing to do with trying to attract supporters of other clubs to also follow Cardiff Blues.

I can see why some folk gave you that nickname, if your posts on here are genuine.

[LordDowlais]

I can see why some folk gave you that nickname, if your posts on here are genuine.

I can assure you my posts on here are very genuine. If ever you want to meet up for a pint when the season kicks off I will be more than happy to oblige, if it is not my turn to drive, again.

I also understand what the focus of the academy is about, and Ponty will soon lose that focus as Merthyr look as though they are going to be the new focus.

Also, if as you say, you are a season ticket holder for the last thirty years, then you cannot possibly deny what the fans down at the cap want. Saying that, if you have been supporting them that long, I would think that you see Cardiff Blues as stand alone Cardiff RFC. I have no issues with that.

But unless you have not been on here until now, you would not see the debates myself and Steffan have been having with other regional fans on here when they start their Ponty bashing.

[PhilBB]

I can see why some folk gave you that nickname, if your posts on here are genuine.

I can assure you my posts on here are very genuine. If ever you want to meet up for a pint when the season kicks off I will be more than happy to oblige, if it is not my turn to drive, again.

I also understand what the focus of the academy is about, and Ponty will soon lose that focus as Merthyr look as though they are going to be the new focus.

Also, if as you say, you are a season ticket holder for the last thirty years, then you cannot possibly deny what the fans down at the cap want. Saying that, if you have been supporting them that long, I would think that you see Cardiff Blues as stand alone Cardiff RFC. I have no issues with that.

But unless you have not been on here until now, you would not see the debates myself and Steffan have been having with other regional fans on here when they start their Ponty bashing.

People who go to games don't call it 'the cap'.

Of course I see Cardiff Blues as a standalone Cardiff RFC because that is factually what it is.

I rarely pop in here, so I've not seen those spats. If folk are telling you who you 'should' support then they are not worth listening to. You spend your money how you see fit.

[LordDowlais]

People who go to games don't call it 'the cap'.

It's what I call it, because I go to the capital to watch rugby, I do not care what others call it. But as you have admitted, you see Blues as a stand alone Cardiff RFC, then why be called Blues at all, just call the team Cardiff RFC and be done with it, we can all get on with supporting our own teams then, and the argument between Ponty and Cardiff can be put to bed.

[PhilBB]

It's what I call it, because I go to the capital to watch rugby, I do not care what others call it. But as you have admitted, you see Blues as a stand alone Cardiff RFC, then why be called Blues at all, just call the team Cardiff RFC and be done with it, we can all get on with supporting our own teams then, and the argument between Ponty and Cardiff can be put to bed.

You can all get on with supporting your team now. You don't need to be defined by what Cardiff Blues decide to do.

The argument between Ponty and Cardiff has already been put to bed. They will soon be even further alienated because of the stance of their navel gazing Board.

Why be called Cardiff Blues? It's a fair question but it's also a dozen year old brand now so there's no point changing it. It's just like Sale Sharks, or Newcastle Falcons or Glasgow Warriors. It's an appendage.

[LordDowlais]

Why be called Cardiff Blues? It's a fair question but it's also a dozen year old brand now so there's no point changing it. It's just like Sale Sharks, or Newcastle Falcons or Glasgow Warriors. It's an appendage.

But who are you, Cardiff RFC or Cardiff Blues or just Blues ?

[PhilBB]

Why be called Cardiff Blues? It's a fair question but it's also a dozen year old brand now so there's no point changing it. It's just like Sale Sharks, or Newcastle Falcons or Glasgow Warriors. It's an appendage.

But who are you, Cardiff RFC or Cardiff Blues or just Blues ?

Good question. Read this? https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/whats-in-a-name-who-is-cardiff-blues/

On your list, we are one and two. Certainly not three.

[LordDowlais]

Why be called Cardiff Blues? It's a fair question but it's also a dozen year old brand now so there's no point changing it. It's just like Sale Sharks, or Newcastle Falcons or Glasgow Warriors. It's an appendage.

But who are you, Cardiff RFC or Cardiff Blues or just Blues ?

Good question. Read this? https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/whats-in-a-name-who-is-cardiff-blues/

On your list, we are one and two. Certainly not three.

You cannot be two things, you are either Cardiff RFC or you are Cardiff Blues, neither of which does anything to represent the "region" on the field. Not once have I watched Cardiff and seen anything that makes me think they are representing Merthyr. When I go, I am supporting Cardiff, why doesn't everyone come out and just admit this.

[PhilBB]

You cannot be two things, you are either Cardiff RFC or you are Cardiff Blues, neither of which does anything to represent the "region" on the field. Not once have I watched Cardiff and seen anything that makes me think they are representing Merthyr. When I go, I am supporting Cardiff, why doesn't everyone come out and just admit this.

You seem confused, high on statement but low on explanation. I'm not sure why you think that Cardiff RFC and Cardiff Blues cannot be the same thing when, factually, they are.

And what makes you think that regional rugby is supposed to be 'representative'? It never has been and never will be. These are not representative sides, these are - as Pro Rugby Wales calls them - Pro Teams.

[LordDowlais]

And what makes you think that regional rugby is supposed to be 'representative'? It never has been and never will be. These are not representative sides, these are - as Pro Rugby Wales calls them - Pro Teams.

So why is does everyone spout out the same old bollox that Cardiff Blues represent the valleys, come on, you have said you have been a season ticket holder for thirty years, please do not play ignorant, you know what the WRU ram down our throats, you know what the suits at Cardiff are saying all the time. Why say it ?

I will tell you why, it is because without the valleys, and the players that the valley clubs provide, Cardiff would not have a side. There are not enough clubs in the Cardiff area to support a so called Cardiff Region/Super club/Pro Team, they need the valleys so they pretend they are doing this that and the other, they make it look as though they are giving out olive branches, but the truth is, the team is still called Cardiff, it still plays in the same colours as they always have, and they still play in the same ground they always have.

This is why there will never be a pro side in the valleys, because if there was, Cardiff Blues would cease to exist.

[PhilBB]

So why is does everyone spout out the same old bollox that Cardiff Blues represent the valleys, come on, you have said you have been a season ticket holder for thirty years, please do not play ignorant, you know what the WRU ram down our throats, you know what the suits at Cardiff are saying all the time. Why say it ?

I will tell you why, it is because without the valleys, and the players that the valley clubs provide, Cardiff would not have a side. There are not enough clubs in the Cardiff area to support a so called Cardiff Region/Super club/Pro Team, they need the valleys so they pretend they are doing this that and the other, they make it look as though they are giving out olive branches, but the truth is, the team is still called Cardiff, it still plays in the same colours as they always have, and they still play in the same ground they always have.

This is why there will never be a pro side in the valleys, because if there was, Cardiff Blues would cease to exist.

Who is this everyone that spouts this stuff about 'representation'? If you could point it out to me where Cardiff are saying it then I'd be ever so grateful and interested to read it. Do you have a link?

Interesting that you note the number of clubs in this little rant. How many do you think there are in that area compared to the number Cardiff Blues have a responsibility for outside of the city? I'd be interested to read your figures on that one.

I seem to remember there being a pro team in Pontypridd from 1996 to 2003. Of course, it didn't do relatively very well but that was because of a number of reasons. During that time, Cardiff Rugby continued apace. So, again, I'm not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion as history seems to take a different view.

I look forward to your explanations and answers. Thanks in advance.

[Steffan]

I seem to remember there being a pro team in Pontypridd from 1996 to 2003. Of course, it didn't do relatively very well but that was because of a number of reasons. During that time, Cardiff Rugby continued apace

I'm not getting into the argument between you and LD about Cardiff not surviving without the Valleys but with a league title two Welsh cups and numerous victories over many European sides I think Ponty did reasonably well. I'm not also not getting into the whole 'my dad drives a faster car than your dad' debate considering we did not have the endless pot of money as quite frankly even if Cardiff did have more success during the 1996-2003 period it was mainly down to the Pieman signing players like Howley, Jenkins, Harris, JD etc from other league and union clubs

[LordDowlais]

Who is this everyone that spouts this stuff about 'representation'? If you could point it out to me where Cardiff are saying it then I'd be ever so grateful and interested to read it. Do you have a link?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_of_regional_rugby_union_teams_in_Wales

http://www.cardiffblues.com/community/regional_clubs_map_of_the_blues_region.php

Regional rugby in Wales was created to represent the whole of Wales, I do not know why you are playing ignorant, I think you are just trying to make an argument for the sake of it. But guess what, without the players the valleys supply to Cardiff, there would be no Cardiff Pro team, check the blues playing squad, over half the players come from the valleys, because Cardiff and the surrounding areas cannot produce enough players.

[PhilBB]

I'm not getting into the argument between you and LD about Cardiff not surviving without the Valleys but with a league title two Welsh cups and numerous victories over many European sides I think Ponty did reasonably well. I'm not also not getting into the whole 'my dad drives a faster car than your dad' debate considering we did not have the endless pot of money as quite frankly even if Cardiff did have more success during the 1996-2003 period it was mainly down to the Pieman signing players like Howley, Jenkins, Harris, JD etc from other league and union clubs

I've never understood why folk have an issue with players moving clubs, as though it is some kind of bad thing. We'll agree to disagree on Ponty's second, and final, moment in the sun.

I'm not seeing an argument about Cardiff not surviving without the Valleys as its such a ridiculous notion as to be unsupportable. It's just an empty rant, in all honesty.

[LordDowlais]

I'm not seeing an argument about Cardiff not surviving without the Valleys as its such a ridiculous notion as to be unsupportable. It's just an empty rant, in all honesty.

Where do you suppose Cardiff would get all their players from then if the valleys had it's own pro side, or they were allocated to another region ?

[PhilBB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_of_regional_rugby_union_teams_in_Wales

http://www.cardiffblues.com/community/regional_clubs_map_of_the_blues_region.php

Regional rugby in Wales was created to represent the whole of Wales, I do not know why you are playing ignorant, I think you are just trying to make an argument for the sake of it. But guess what, without the players the valleys supply to Cardiff, there would be no Cardiff Pro team, check the blues playing squad, over half the players come from the valleys, because Cardiff and the surrounding areas cannot produce enough players.

Last summer, I was lucky enough to spend some time with the chap who set it up - Moffett. He told me that it was never meant to be representative. You've posted a link from the Cardiff Blues website that has no mention of the word 'representative'.

I'm pretty sure that, in a professional sport, players can come from wherever. All of the world, in fact. Some I'm really at a loss as to why you are trying to separate a tiny chunk of land, about 20 miles away from 'the cap', into something unique. It's hardly far from Merthyr to Cardiff, you know. 'The Valleys' isn't some unique utopia of rugby production because, and here's the bit you've failed to note, those 'over half the players come from the valleys' have progressed into professional rugby because of the Cardiff Blues Academy.

[Steffan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Premier_Division

1996–97 Pontypridd
1997–98 Swansea
1998–99 Llanelli
1999–2000 Cardiff
2000–01 Swansea
2001–02 Llanelli
2002–03 Bridgend

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRU_Challenge_Cup

1996 Pontypridd
1997 Cardiff
1998 Llanelli
1999 Swansea
2000 Llanelli
2002 Pontypridd
2003 Llanelli

[PhilBB]

Where do you suppose Cardiff would get all their players from then if the valleys had it's own pro side, or they were allocated to another region ?

The same place they always came from. Whoever wants to play rugby for Cardiff Blues will do so when offered a contract.

Do you have a point to make here because, in all honesty, I'm not quite following your rants. You seem to have written something incoherent about there being no professional team in Cardiff were there one 'in the Valleys'. What is 'the Valleys'? Where is 'the Valleys'? Do you mean Ebbw Vale or Neath, or maybe Pontypridd? If the latter, there's little to discuss as the area cannot sustain professional rugby.

Each day the A470 is jammed with folk leaving 'the Valleys' for work in Cardiff so I'm at a loss as to why you think rugby players would be any different in their place of work.

[PhilBB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Premier_Division

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRU_Challenge_Cup

Lovely lists. How about charting Pontypridd's league positions over that time?

[LordDowlais]

'over half the players come from the valleys' have progressed into professional rugby because of the Cardiff Blues Academy.

That is because they had nowhere else to go, because they are in the valleys then they automatically go into the Blues academy, if the valleys had their own pro side, or they came under another region, then Cardiff would be fooked. Where would they get their players from ?

[Steffan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Premier_Division

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRU_Challenge_Cup

Lovely lists. How about charting Pontypridd's league positions over that time?

Ah right. I always thought success was based on what you win not where you average every year

[PhilBB]

That is because they had nowhere else to go, because they are in the valleys then they automatically go into the Blues academy, if the valleys had their own pro side, or they came under another region, then Cardiff would be fooked. Where would they get their players from ?

Well, the Valleys will never have its own pro side as it couldn't afford to pay its Academy players, let alone its graduates. But, that apart, players will come from all over the country and further afield to play for Cardiff - as they always have. Many, like Neil Jenkins for example, grow up wanting to play at Cardiff.

[PhilBB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Premier_Division

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRU_Challenge_Cup

Lovely lists. How about charting Pontypridd's league positions over that time?

Ah right. I always thought success was based on what you win not where you average every year

Wouldn't you suggest it was a little bit of both? I mean, you'd say that Arsenal were more successful than Swansea City, right?

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