Cardiff Blues Season Thread 3 - Danny Wilson Appointed Head Coach

[wales606]

First topic message reminder :

Prop
Gethin Jenkins, Taufa'ao Filise, Craig Mitchell, Sam Hobbs, Scott Andrews, Thomas Davies, Dillon Lewis

Hooker
Matthew Rees, Kristian Dacey, Rhys Williams, Ethan Lewis

2nd Row
Jarrad Hoeata, James Down, Lou Reed, Chris Dicomidis, Miles Normandale

Flanker
Sam Warburton, Josh Turnbull, Macauley Cook, Ellis Jenkins, Josh Navidi, Jevon Groves, Ben Roach

Eight
Manoa Vosawai

Scrum half
Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams, Lewis Jones, Tomos Williams

Fly half
Rhys Patchell, Gareth Anscombe, Gareth Davies, Jarrod Evans, Will Thomas

Centre
Cory Allen, Gavin Evans, Richard Smith, Tom Pascoe, Adam Thomas, Garyn Smith, Ray Lee-Lo

Wing
Alex Cuthbert, Harry Davies, Owen Jenkins, Chris Knight, Tom Williams, Tom James

Full back
Blaine Scully, Dan Fish, Geraint Walsh, Aled Summerhill

[Steffan]

PhilBB I am not sure what your point is to be honest on here

You have stated that Ponty are trash and Cardiff are the superior team above everyone in Welsh rugby and people from the Valleys and all over Wales want to play for the Real Madrid of Welsh rugby

Ok we all get how you feel but as I say I'm not sure what your point is to be honest or what you are trying to prove on this forum

[PhilBB]

PhilBB I am not sure what your point is to be honest on here

You have stated that Ponty are trash and Cardiff are the superior team above everyone in Welsh rugby and people from the Valleys and all over Wales want to play for the Real Madrid of Welsh rugby

Ok we all get how you feel but as I say I'm not sure what your point is to be honest or what you are trying to prove on this forum

Well, that's a lovely misrepresentation of the recent thread. My point is only that Cardiff Blues is the standalone club with a responsibility, as they are a Regional Organisation member of the WRU, for a development pathway. They are not a representative side.

Mr Dewlaps seems to have his knickers twisted about that and seems to want to debate a theoretical world where 'the Valleys' (an undefined area) have professional rugby thus killing off Cardiff Blues. I don't know why he wants to live in that fantasy world but each to his own.

[LordDowlais]

Where do you suppose Cardiff would get all their players from then if the valleys had it's own pro side, or they were allocated to another region ?

The same place they always came from. Whoever wants to play rugby for Cardiff Blues will do so when offered a contract.

Do you have a point to make here because, in all honesty, I'm not quite following your rants. You seem to have written something incoherent about there being no professional team in Cardiff were there one 'in the Valleys'. What is 'the Valleys'? Where is 'the Valleys'? Do you mean Ebbw Vale or Neath, or maybe Pontypridd? If the latter, there's little to discuss as the area cannot sustain professional rugby.

Each day the A470 is jammed with folk leaving 'the Valleys' for work in Cardiff so I'm at a loss as to why you think rugby players would be any different in their place of work.

Ok, Ok, look I will explain this to you more simply. The thing is Cardiff have first dibs on any young talent from the valleys(Mid Glamorgan in old money). They get this because Mid Glamorgan falls under the Blues region. If the valleys, and lets include all of them, from North Gwent right across Mid Glamorgan and all they way to Neath and even Bridgend had they're own pro side, or even just Mid Glamorgan if you like, from Pontypridd right up to Brecon like that map on the Blues website shows, then Cardiff would not have any dibs on the players and they would have to sustain a pro side on the clubs in Cardiff that have never produced a steady production of players, they do produce the odd one every now and again, but for me there is not enough to sustain a pro side. This is why there will never be a valleys side, if there was Cardiff would decline even further, and we cannot have that in Wales.

What you are not seeing is that without the valleys, Cardiff would be in a very sticky situation, because Cardiff as a stand alone city cannot support a pro team. This has nothing to do with travelling down the A470 for work, it is all about the regions and what they are supposed to represent. Cardiff want to be stand alone, they want to stay in Blue, they want to keep playing at the Arms Park, yet they do nothing to represent the rest of their region on the field. But they happily pillage the areas they are supposed to be representing to fill their academies and their squad. Something they could not do when we had a valleys side.

Also, this is not a rant, I have no reason to rant about this, I just want you to realise the that most of the region Cardiff are supposed to represent does not get any representation at all.

[Steffan]

My point is only that Cardiff Blues is the standalone club with a responsibility, as they are a Regional Organisation member of the WRU, for a development pathway. They are not a representative side

I agree with you. The problem you have is with fans like Cardiff Dave who are one minute saying its all the 'Blues family' then on another occasion its all about 'Cardiff rugby the pro team' but non Kaiiiiirdiff fans (such as Ponty supporters for example) should get behind their nearest pro team

[PhilBB]

Ok, Ok, look I will explain this to you more simply. The thing is Cardiff have first dibs on any young talent from the valleys(Mid Glamorgan in old money). They get this because Mid Glamorgan falls under the Blues region. If the valleys, and lets include all of them, from North Gwent right across Mid Glamorgan and all they way to Neath and even Bridgend had they're own pro side, or even just Mid Glamorgan if you like, from Pontypridd right up to Brecon like that map on the Blues website shows, then Cardiff would not have any dibs on the players and they would have to sustain a pro side on the clubs in Cardiff that have never produced a steady production of players, they do produce the odd one every now and again, but for me there is not enough to sustain a pro side. This is why there will never be a valleys side, if there was Cardiff would decline even further, and we cannot have that in Wales.

What you are not seeing is that without the valleys, Cardiff would be in a very sticky situation, because Cardiff as a stand alone city cannot support a pro team. This has nothing to do with travelling down the A470 for work, it is all about the regions and what they are supposed to represent. Cardiff want to be stand alone, they want to stay in Blue, they want to keep playing at the Arms Park, yet they do nothing to represent the rest of their region on the field. But they happily pillage the areas they are supposed to be representing to fill their academies and their squad. Something they could not do when we had a valleys side.

Also, this is not a rant, I have no reason to rant about this, I just want you to realise the that most of the region Cardiff are supposed to represent does not get any representation at all.

Ah, I see your theoretical point. In your fantasy suggestion, you'd ban kids from playing for another Academy. And then you think that, in this fantasy suggestion, Academy graduates could only play for the club that ran the Academy. Forever.

Again, I'll remind you that the Pro Teams of today are not representative sides. They were never set up to be representative sides. They are Pro Teams with a responsibility (not a representation) for a development pathway. I think that seems to be the root of your confusion.

[PhilBB]

I agree with you. The problem you have is with fans like Cardiff Dave who are one minute saying its all the 'Blues family' then on another occasion its all about 'Cardiff rugby the pro team' but non Kaiiiiirdiff fans (such as Ponty supporters for example) should get behind their nearest pro team

Nobody should be asked / told to get behind a pro team. It's all personal choice. The idea of 'nearest' is also utterly ludicrous in an area as small as South Wales. Most with that school of thought don't realise the size of, say, Queensland or that a local derby in New Zealand requires a visit to an airport or that Munster is bigger than the whole of Wales.

[LordDowlais]

Again, I'll remind you that the Pro Teams of today are not representative sides. They were never set up to be representative sides. They are Pro Teams with a responsibility (not a representation) for a development pathway. I think that seems to be the root of your confusion.

Where are you getting this rubbish from, regional teams were made to represent the region. Are you just saying things to be argumentitive ? Ospreys were set up to represent both Neath and Swansea and all the teams in the area, Newport Gwent Dragons were set-up to represent Newport, Ebbw Vale and all the other clubs in that area, Cardiff and Llanelli wanted to stand alone, that is fair enough. Warriors then went jubblies up and all the area that Pontypridd covered was supposed to be taken over by Cardiff Blues.

That is what we were told, the Warriors are gone now, go and support Cardiff Blues. It took some time but I did this.

Ah, I see your theoretical point. In your fantasy suggestion, you'd ban kids from playing for another Academy. And then you think that, in this fantasy suggestion, Academy graduates could only play for the club that ran the Academy. Forever.

Again, more bull. All kids in Mid Glamorgan if good enough end up in the Cardiff academy, this is how the WRU have set things up. Ok one ore two who are not deemed good enough might be considered by other academies but Cardiff have first dibs on them. If Warriors were still in business, then Cardiff would not have any first dibs on the young talent in the valleys, Warriors would, this is not fantasy it is fact. Cardiff do not want to show any representation for the valleys, but they will happily pillage them for players.

[PhilBB]

Where are you getting this rubbish from, regional teams were made to represent the region. Are you just saying things to be argumentitive ? Ospreys were set up to represent both Neath and Swansea and all the teams in the area, Newport Gwent Dragons were set-up to represent Newport, Ebbw Vale and all the other clubs in that area, Cardiff and Llanelli wanted to stand alone, that is fair enough. Warriors then went jubblies up and all the area that Pontypridd covered was supposed to be taken over by Cardiff Blues.

That is what we were told, the Warriors are gone now, go and support Cardiff Blues. It took some time but I did this.

I'm getting this 'rubbish' from, as previously noted, David Moffett and, more recently, directly from Richard Holland. These are NOT representative teams.

The clue for you should be in the rather ludicrous statement that 'Ospreys were set up....' as you've clearly forgotten that they were called Neath-Swansea Ospreys when they formed.

You can support who you like, my friend. You're certainly not watching a representative side at CAP.

[LordDowlais]

The clue for you should be in the rather ludicrous statement that 'Ospreys were set up....' as you've clearly forgotten that they were called Neath-Swansea Ospreys when they formed.

So who or what did that team represent ?

[PhilBB]

Again, more bull. All kids in Mid Glamorgan if good enough end up in the Cardiff academy, this is how the WRU have set things up. Ok one ore two who are not deemed good enough might be considered by other academies but Cardiff have first dibs on them. If Warriors were still in business, then Cardiff would not have any first dibs on the young talent in the valleys, Warriors would, this is not fantasy it is fact. Cardiff do not want to show any representation for the valleys, but they will happily pillage them for players.

The format of the existing Academy structure wasn't in place during the season the Celtic Warriors existed so your logic is a little 2+2=5, there. However, if we do your version of retrospective navel gazing then your point could hold water, yes.

Pillage is a rather odd word for giving a kid a chance at a professional sports career, however. Especially so when you consider all of the work done via the development pathway in return.

[PhilBB]

The clue for you should be in the rather ludicrous statement that 'Ospreys were set up....' as you've clearly forgotten that they were called Neath-Swansea Ospreys when they formed.

So who or what did that team represent ?

Did?

Neath-Swansea. Remember the badge with the Osprey (Swansea RFC's logo) over the Maltese Cross (the Neath badge)?

[LordDowlais]

The clue for you should be in the rather ludicrous statement that 'Ospreys were set up....' as you've clearly forgotten that they were called Neath-Swansea Ospreys when they formed.

So who or what did that team represent ?

Did?

Neath-Swansea. Remember the badge with the Osprey (Swansea RFC's logo) over the Maltese Cross (the Neath badge)?

So you admit then the regions were formed to represent more than just one identity.

[Steffan]

Who do the 'Cardiff Blues North' team represent just out of interest?

[PhilBB]

So you admit then the regions were formed to represent more than just one identity.

That's a merger, remember? Like when Pontypridd merged with Bridgend but went into administration in September 2003 (despite a loan from Samuel) as it couldn't meet its obligations. Like Ebbw Vale's merger with Newport lasting just a few weeks longer before it, too, went into administration.

These are not representative sides.

[PhilBB]

Who do the 'Cardiff Blues North' team represent just out of interest?

Again, what is it with this representational thing? They are just kids playing for an Academy side.

[LordDowlais]

The format of the existing Academy structure wasn't in place during the season the Celtic Warriors existed so your logic is a little 2+2=5, there. However, if we do your version of retrospective navel gazing then your point could hold water, yes.

FFS, so if the Warriors were still here, then the academy structure that is set-up now would be in place to service Warriors and not Cardiff Blues. Thus Cardiff would not have as much of a player base. They clearly need it as over half of their squad is filled with players from up here, and their academies are full of kids from up here. That is why if there was a pro side in the valleys Cardiff would be fecked.

[Steffan]

Just had a look at the 'Cardiff Blues North' academy team actually (under 16s)

Quite a lot of players coming through from the Pontypridd, Church Village and Llantrisant area. Nice to see where I am from producing a lot of talent at the moment

Lets hope some can go on to play professional and those that don't can make a name for themselves in the Ponty team

[LordDowlais]

Quite a lot of players coming through from the Pontypridd, Church Village and Llantrisant area. Nice to see where I am from producing a lot of talent at the moment

It always has mate, when I was helping out with Glyncoch a few years ago, the amount of kids playing in that area was outstanding, Church Village seems to just churn out players, there are a few who came through there in the Cardiff squad now.

[PhilBB]

FFS, so if the Warriors were still here, then the academy structure that is set-up now would be in place to service Warriors and not Cardiff Blues. Thus Cardiff would not have as much of a player base. They clearly need it as over half of their squad is filled with players from up here, and their academies are full of kids from up here. That is why if there was a pro side in the valleys Cardiff would be fecked.

Yes, I understand that revisionist fantasy.

[PhilBB]

Just had a look at the 'Cardiff Blues North' academy team actually (under 16s)

Quite a lot of players coming through from the Pontypridd, Church Village and Llantrisant area. Nice to see where I am from producing a lot of talent at the moment

Lets hope some can go on to play professional and those that don't can make a name for themselves in the Ponty team

My (almost) area too.

[Steffan]

Church Village seems to just churn out players, there are a few who came through there in the Cardiff squad now

Yeah a lot of them came through the local club that my nephews play for. My brother has been involved quite a bit and is very good friends with Justin Burnell

Nice to see my area do its bit for Welsh rugby even if the Kaaaaaidiff lot do hate us "Valley" types

[LordDowlais]

Church Village seems to just churn out players, there are a few who came through there in the Cardiff squad now

Yeah a lot of them came through the local club that my nephews play for. My brother has been involved quite a bit and is very good friends with Justin Burnell

Nice to see my area do its bit for Welsh rugby even if the Kaaaaaidiff lot do hate us "Valley" types

What was the district they all used to go through down there ? We always used to lose players to the bloody districts.

edit:- I just remembered friggin Beddau. They used to love to poach players.

[Steffan]

Church Village seems to just churn out players, there are a few who came through there in the Cardiff squad now

Yeah a lot of them came through the local club that my nephews play for. My brother has been involved quite a bit and is very good friends with Justin Burnell

Nice to see my area do its bit for Welsh rugby even if the Kaaaaaidiff lot do hate us "Valley" types

What was the district they all used to go through down there ? We always used to lose players to the bloody districts.

Not sure on that one but I'm a bit confused as the Ponty Youth team had an amazing season last year and I'm wondering are these 'Cardiff Blues North' under 16 players the same ones or are they ranked above the Ponty Youth team players as 'Kaaaaidiff Noooorth' will always get the cream of the crop?

[LordDowlais]

Church Village seems to just churn out players, there are a few who came through there in the Cardiff squad now

Yeah a lot of them came through the local club that my nephews play for. My brother has been involved quite a bit and is very good friends with Justin Burnell

Nice to see my area do its bit for Welsh rugby even if the Kaaaaaidiff lot do hate us "Valley" types

What was the district they all used to go through down there ? We always used to lose players to the bloody districts.

Not sure on that one but I'm a bit confused as the Ponty Youth team had an amazing season last year and I'm wondering are these 'Cardiff Blues North' under 16 players the same ones or are they ranked above the Ponty Youth team players as 'Kaaaaidiff Noooorth' will always get the cream of the crop?

I just remembered it was Beddau.

[Steffan]

I just remembered it was Beddau

Don't mention that club on a Cardiff Blues thread. Neither side will be happy

[GavinDragon]

Blues North beat the Dragons South last week 26-7.

Blues North (and south for that matter) have strong set ups. Rhondda Schools (perennial finalists in the Dewar shield) feed into the Blues North and Cardiff Schools (also strong in the Dewar shield) feed into Blues South

[Steffan]

Blues North beat the Dragons South last week 14-7.

Blues North (and south for that matter) have strong set ups. Rhondda Schools (perennial finalists in the Dewar shield) feed into the Blues North and Cardiff Schools (also strong in the Dewar shield) feed into Blues South

So I assume the Dragons have a North and South team as well then or do they also have East and West as Gwent is a pretty big place?

[GavinDragon]

North/South. Although, reading into the squads, I don't think location decides which squad you end up in

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/RugbyCMS/Uploads/Dragons/Academy/150714%20Dragons%20U16s%20Squad%20S2.pdf

There are players from the Newport District in the North and Rhymney Valley District players in the South

EDIT: I wonder if they are more like A and B squads?

[Steffan]

North/South. Although, reading into the squads, I don't think location decides which squad you end up in

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/RugbyCMS/Uploads/Dragons/Academy/150714%20Dragons%20U16s%20Squad%20S2.pdf

There are players from the Newport District in the North and Rhymney Valley District players in the South

EDIT: I wonder if they are more like A and B squads?

Yeah Pooler seem to be producing a lot of players on both sides which is no surprise as its another top valleys side that produces much talent (and has Ponty) in the name

[GavinDragon]

Pooler were the poor relation when I played ;-)

Never got to play Pontypridd though. Took two hidings from Rhondda and Cardiff. But did manage to beat Neath in the shield final

[LordDowlais]

when I played

What do you mean when ? You are only 28. Get back out there !!!!!!!!

[GavinDragon]

I was referring to playing in the Dewar shield for Newport Schools, many moons ago.

Sadly torn cartilage has put paids to that. Tried to return this summer, after an operation, but the knee can't take it anymore. Going to get involved with coaching at St Julians RFC where my lad plays.

[LordDowlais]

I was referring to playing in the Dewar shield for Newport Schools, many moons ago.

Sadly torn cartilage has put paids to that. Tried to return this summer, after an operation, but the knee can't take it anymore. Going to get involved with coaching at St Julians RFC where my lad plays.

Well done, not only are you spending extra time with your kid, you are giving something back to rugby as well. People need to realise the commitment parents put into things like this.

[GavinDragon]

I would not have enjoyed a time playing rugby for as long as I did without parents. I played for NHSOB RFC from the age of six and the network of support throughout the ages at that club was and is phenomenal. They went all over the UK with us.

EDIT: And there were many clubs across Wales that also had goot set ups and excellent volunteers. Bon y Maen, Beddau, Glamorgan Wanderers just to name a few

[Cardiff Dave]

Your pro team is Cardiff now Steff. Tis written, so embrace it.

Erm......naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Aw go on mun. Nugget on ChumV said you lot should get behind the bloos remember.

[Cardiff Dave]

My point is only that Cardiff Blues is the standalone club with a responsibility, as they are a Regional Organisation member of the WRU, for a development pathway. They are not a representative side

I agree with you. The problem you have is with fans like Cardiff Dave who are one minute saying its all the 'Blues family' then on another occasion its all about 'Cardiff rugby the pro team' but non Kaiiiiirdiff fans (such as Ponty supporters for example) should get behind their nearest pro team

I'm flattered.

[Cardiff Dave]

Quite a lot of players coming through from the Pontypridd, Church Village and Llantrisant area. Nice to see where I am from producing a lot of talent at the moment

It always has mate, when I was helping out with Glyncoch a few years ago, the amount of kids playing in that area was outstanding, Church Village seems to just churn out players, there are a few who came through there in the Cardiff squad now.

True story this.
Whilst working in Llantrisant during the late 80s, was told by one of my blokes who lived in Church Village that when walking his dog, he often noticed a youngster practicing place kicking. Said he was pretty good and reckoned he could play for Wales one day. Yeah I thought, but will he be good enough to play for Cardiff though, I joked. I made up that last sentence. Anyway that youngster was Neil Jenkins.

[mikey_dragon]

I would not have enjoyed a time playing rugby for as long as I did without parents. I played for NHSOB RFC from the age of six and the network of support throughout the ages at that club was and is phenomenal. They went all over the UK with us.

EDIT: And there were many clubs across Wales that also had goot set ups and excellent volunteers. Bon y Maen, Beddau, Glamorgan Wanderers just to name a few

Being that age and playing for NHSOB, you might have played with the Pocock's, or under the guidance of Poki at least? I'm related to them. They have deep routes in the club but as you may know have since gone on to pastures new.

[GavinDragon]

I know of them. Somehow I never played under them. I was there from 6 to 16. Coached by lyndon cook at first then cliff Studley. The age group I played in had the likes of ash smith, Lewis evans, Adam Frampton, Mike bird etc

[mikey_dragon]

They were a bit older than you then. Poki was more of a player/coach, would have been coaching his sons age group and continued it a bit up to the seniors where he remained.

I know of those lads. I know guys like Piper, Pecker, Peggy a bit better though. If your name is Gavin I can't quite picture you - so I'm guessing you didn't hang out with their group. Were you Jimmy Norris' age or a year older? I know he was at NHSOB as a youngster (he's another cousin of mine, more distant and on my mother's side).

[GavinDragon]

Year above Jimmys age group. He was coached by Alan davies. A very good coach. I would be better known as Pottsy but as I said I left when I was 16.

[mikey_dragon]

Fair enough, that's probably why I hadn't met you. A few of those guys are still playing to a decent level anyway.

[Cardiff Dave]

New blouson summer collection much as expected.

[mikey_dragon]

Wilson is a coach who coaches a style of play very similar to Gatland. Blues don't have the personnel for that; you need a competent front row and a high percentage goal-kicker. So can anyone see him making a big difference?

[XR]

Anscombe came over with a high percentage kicking rate so if he can hit those same levels we'll be halfway there.

[George Carlin]

https://www.606v2.com/t60323-welcome-to-the-new-aviva-pro-12-season-your-help-needed

[Cardiff Dave]

Wilson is a coach who coaches a style of play very similar to Gatland. Blues don't have the personnel for that; you need a competent front row and a high percentage goal-kicker. So can anyone see him making a big difference?

Don't expect him to and certainly not this season anyway, but an improved try count, for/against should be a target. Conceded more than Newport GD last season and finished below them which is just not on.

[mikey_dragon]

Last-but-one placed region should be your minimum target. Nice to aspirations are high!

[PhilBB]

Wilson is a coach who coaches a style of play very similar to Gatland. Blues don't have the personnel for that; you need a competent front row and a high percentage goal-kicker. So can anyone see him making a big difference?

They are odd comments as Gatland has been vocal in noting that he doesn't pay too much attention to the set piece (going back to his Wasps days).

Wilson will make a huge difference. Hell, we even scored a try from a maul on the weekend.

[PhilBB]

Wilson is a coach who coaches a style of play very similar to Gatland. Blues don't have the personnel for that; you need a competent front row and a high percentage goal-kicker. So can anyone see him making a big difference?

Don't expect him to and certainly not this season anyway, but an improved try count, for/against should be a target. Conceded more than Newport GD last season and finished below them which is just not on.

Thanks to Leinster's selection 'policy'.

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