The TNA thread - catch it whilst you still can!

[Adam D]

First topic message reminder :

Thought I would start a thread where you can discuss the latest TNA episode each week and discuss the latest news.

I thought I would kick off with a funny comment that happened on this weeks show.

Joseph Parks was interviewed and he mentioned how he had fallen on hard times (and how it could be his new gimmick "hard times Joseph park"!) but how he lost all his money by investing in Tout!

[dyrewolfe]

Agree that doesn't seem a very smart move.

If you're not big enough / well funded enough to pay your talent retainer fees, on top of their appearance money, it seems a tad unreasonable to expect them to work exclusively for you...especially if they are not guaranteed regular appearances.

Another example of them "thinking big", but "acting small".

With all the talent thats already left the company...many of them being fairly major, well-established names at TNA, it is surely inevitable they'll have to go the indy route.

It may be that by starting back at the bottom, so to speak, they can re-grow the business and over time get back to where they were a few years ago.

[Prometheus]

Just in case there was ever any doubt, Ricochet just Tweeted this:

Ricochet ‏@KingRicochet 2m2 minutes ago Florida, USA
Ricochet retweeted Vincenzo Russo
No. Ricochet added,
Vincenzo Russo @VincenzoSorus
@KingRicochet Will Ricochet finally debut in TNA?

[Adam D]

TNA is saved! Check this awesome moment from last nights tapings due to be aired in a few weeks:

* Bram defeated Grado. Both guys cut a promo on each other with Bram insulting Grado's weight. It resulted in a dance contest where Bram rolled up Grado during a turn.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The hardcore machine gets into dance contest with Grado.

At least TNA are using Grado. I'd watch if it was guaranteed Grado was on every week.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Bully Ray, hyped up as returning GM, has left the company again.

[Hero]

[Prometheus]

Back to NXT then. While I see it from Bully's point of view, i.e. why not look after number 1. I also think that he's very much about himself. But, a promotion should really know that before they work with him. So, yeah I think he might be a big of a jerk, but TNA should know that's his MO.

[Crimey]

Basically the reports are that he felt at this time it was worse for him to be associated with TNA, supporting what I said on the podcast that some wrestlers won't want to even be associated with TNA at the moment.

Also apparently WWE still have some interest in working with him, so imagine he'll be holding out for them giving him a call again in the near future.

[Fernando]

A source reportedly told PWInsider.com that Bully Ray couldn’t have quit the company, since he was never under contract with TNA in a longterm capacity. Ray had been working with TNA on a per-appearance basis, and the idea of him being an authority figure on TV was not a longterm idea. The source noted the angle had been “shot and wrapped”, so his story line had finished.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

A TNA source? I'd trust they weren't lying. Probably Smashing Bill catching all us marks out again.

[Adam D]

Talking of catching out the marks. 

Apparently, during these taping so, they have been referring to upcoming matches happening at genesis. Basically getting in ring talent to announce that they will be facing an opponent at the genesis PPV. 

Nothing unusual about that until you see the matches announced:

Jessie godderz vs Al snow in a elevation x match
Tigre uno vs abyss in a babe wire massacre 3 match. 
Aiden O'Shea will face "Irish" Pat Kenney in a Shamrock Street Fight.

Apparently the announcements are to troll the dirtsheets and not true!

[dyrewolfe]

Thank god for that!

The first two sound awful and I've no idea who the Irish guys are.

Disappointed that Bully Ray's return was only a short-term thing and is already done and dusted. That said I can understand why he wouldn't want to be tied to TNA at the moment.

As for Bram vs Grado...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Jesus Christ that is the saddest thing I've seen TNA do.

[Prometheus]

Jesus Christ that is the saddest thing I've seen TNA do.

It really is a low.

I saw a tweet from Shane Helms (that I don't think was a swerve) 71 matches in 4 days. I can't believe there is any quality control when you are just pushing through as many matches as you can in as shorter time as possible. Feel sorry for the crowd.

[Adam D]

I actually think it's quite funny. It's not like it's going to air on TV so it's just a bit of trolling the people who are constantly undermining them.

[Prometheus]

I think that where most people would take issue Adam is that there are a million and one things that TNA need to get right, acting smart like this should be way down the list. And the attitude that the dirt sheets are killing them does nothing to help their cause that its TNA management banging the nails in the coffin. Indeed, in the month I had access to the Observer, I actually think Meltzer over-rated the TNA wrestling product.

Dirtsheets may arguably be something that is wrong with wrestling, but TNA has a lot to fix before they need to concern themselves with them.

[Adam D]

Can't disagree with any of that. 

The only thing o would say is that saying something on air is a 2 minute thing and not exactly a major thing. I appreciate they have huge problems and this isn't one of them but you might as well have fun as your falling into the abyss.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Theres nothing fun crossing your mind when all you can see below you is Abyss!

[Prometheus]

If the number of matches that Shane Helms tweeted about during the tapings is true, that really makes me shudder. It just feels like TNA is a factory process now, producing as many matches as it can, in the shortest time, with the cheapest workers. We can't tell if they are good, bad or indifferent matches until they are screened, but for me it would be a definite warning siren.

[dyrewolfe]

Theres nothing fun crossing your mind when all you can see below you is Abyss!

Even less so if all you can see above you is Abyss!

I would dearly love to know just what those in charge at TNA think they are supposed to be producing. Have they decided to go down the house show route and just take whoever they can find at short notice and not bother with scripts / storylines any more? If so thats quite a big change of direction...maybe a hint at the future of the company?

[talkingpoint]

TNA definitely need to go back to doing house shows between impact tapings. However, historically their house shows have always been poorly attended.

Business works on supply and demand. If the demand isn't there, TNA are going to need to generate it. They need to give their fans incentives to attend house shows again. Whether that is giving them a particular kind of gimmick match i.e. cage match, or putting on a wrestling clinic before or after the show to give the fans an insight into how to wrestle. They need to generate that demand for their product.

They also need to stick to their strongest territories, whether that is the whole of the East Coast, or the South or the North East. Wherever they have historically been strongest. I would try to create a tour much like the maximum impact tour of the UK. Make it happen once a year to make it feel special, they could call it the East Coast Xplosion Tour or something. Have it be about a month long and just hit the venues where they can get a decent size venue for their current scale of production (1000-1500 seater). I think they should also go north of the border into Canada and have a tour there. EY & Roode are both Canadian and I think there would be a strong turn out. That way you could have three tours a year, some of the shows including impact tapings such as in the UK and Canada. The point is TNA need to sell tickets and need to find a way of creating demand again for their product.

[dyrewolfe]

It would seem that is the best way to grow your fanbase...actually getting your product out there in arenas where people can see it. Putting shows out on TV doesn't guarantee anyone will watch them.

If they can get people to buy tickets and watch the shows, the rest of their problems will sort themselves out (more or less).

However the biggest problem / question is...exactly how do they sell themselves? What can they do to make their brand stand out and get potential punters interested?

Seems they tried to run before they could walk and present themselves as the new WCW. Now thats fallen through it looks like they're having to go back to basics, just to try and survive.

They obviously have a very limited budget to work with, so I guess scaling back and focusing solely on what they do best is a start, but as talkingpoint said, they also have to generate awareness / interest and create a distinct strong brand image. His ideas about keeping their operations local, or at least only going as far afield as Canada would be a start...maximum return for minimum investment has to be their mantra now.

Lets hope A0 have some good ideas on how they can do this, otherwise they may not be around long enough to worry about getting a new TV deal.

[talkingpoint]

I think TNA need to forget about WWE. That's not to say they need to think small, or have no ambition, but, the WWE is it's own animal by now. TNA need to focus on the general wrestling fan and not just trying to draw or attract the WWE faithful. They need to rescue their reputation amongst hardcore wrestling fans. They need to tour and give the fans a great show. Their current TV model of block tapings is only hurting them. They can continue to record in block tapings, but they need to reconnect with wrestling fans again, prove to them they not just this digital company that is only concerned about TV and Youtube content.

Putting on wrestling clinics before or after house shows; having Q&A sessions with the roster again before or after shows or having photo booth where fans can have their picture taken and superimposed onto the impact graphic as a souvenir, like you get at theme parks. TNA need to give fans something as a hook, which will boost the experience they have on top of the first class wrestling in the show, which should always be the main attraction.

Whatever TNA come up with, they need to get fans paying and supporting the brand.

[Prometheus]

The only similarity between WWE and TNA right now is that they each have a weekly TV show. With the exception of the Briscoe Brothers, AJ Styles and a handful of other talent, every wrestler in the world aspires to join WWE. While much of the TNA talent has found its way out of the organization.

And you know what? The TNA product isn't even live, so maybe just having a TV slot isn't a comparison point. Because right now you have TNA stacking them high and filming as many Impact and One Night Only as they can each day. And for me that sucks.

I mean, TNA still had a chance here. Because, what WWE has done really well, is it's filled it's card with good wrestlers. So you aren't likely to see a match that is an actual match and not an angle on Raw going below 2.5*, and you can see ones going all the way up to 4*. And that is after the WWE crew spent the entire week on the road doing house shows.

For example, watch the women who've come up now. Becky, Charlotte and Sasha. They are not going to be as good as they were in NXT. And people are going to blame this on the writing. They are going to blame it on the women they work with. And both of those will be important. But the biggest thing was that when they were working in NXT filming a few shows a month and building to a PPV, that's all they had to do. William Regal, Fit Finlay, Sara Del Rey, whoever they were working with, they could spend hours and days and weeks in a quiet ring in Florida mapping out their 18 minute match.

Now those women are touring. They are working every night. They have media work. They have a million and one things to do. And just as they are walking out on tonight's Raw, chances are they might be told that John Cena went long in his section so their planned 8 minute match is now 5 minutes.

That's a different job. Or at least the same job under wildly different conditions. A bit like if your job is to change the light bulb in your office that might not be too challenging, but you now become the light bulb changer on the Forth Bridge, life got interesting. I think that Sasha and Becky are good enough to adapt, but even so we will see a dip in quality.

So, why do I say this. Well because TNA could have been NXT. Because it is filmed you can work out those matches tightly, you can re-film blown spots. You can make sure when each main event airs, its a 4* match on the TV. Buy no way can you do that quality control if you are doing 20 matches a day. So, we are going to see the stuff that get's TNA written down. The 2 minute matches. The run-ins. The ref bumps. Not only have guys like Aries gone, but the guys who are left don't have time to turn around before they film their next match. I think the TV product is going to suck.

And TV is what TNA has. Sure, I can bring up that TNA hasn't sold a ticket in the US this year. But there are a lot of promotions that have, and how many of those has a weekly TV deal. Here's the thing, being on TV >>> running house shows for around a thousand fans.

That's the simple answer, TNA needs a good TV deal. I can't believe that TNA has done anything more than the absolute minimum of burning through their last shows for Destination America. And you know the international TV deals that TNA cares about so much. Hey, they are going to ship the same crud to those guys too.

I don't know what this means. I strongly suspect that one way or another the lights are turned off at TNA within the next months, because as soon as the money disappears I think Eric Young will be the only guy left there very quickly.

So, you are right. If TNA has a deal with Destination America or any other channel then they need to augment their income and improve their product via other revenue streams. But if they don't have that, playing a few tours is only going to put off the inevitable for a few days and by then the product could be so poor that their fans have already turned the lights out for them.

[talkingpoint]

TNA does need to get their TV deal locked first and have that security. I wasn't suggesting that TNA should all of a sudden shift to house shows when they have no guarantee they'll still be on US TV by the end of the year. But, they need to tour again and reconnect with their fan base and enlarge that fan base at the same time. Just having a TV deal is not necessarily good enough to remain where they are or perhaps where they were a couple of years ago within the wrestling scene. A decent TV product will get fans excited about seeing these wrestlers live, so it is essential and more paying and committed fans will give TNA the core fan base necessary for solid and dependable TV ratings.

[Adam D]

After joking the other day that TNA was saved due to Bram and Grado dancing, I can now reveal from last nights tapings why they are really saved. I will put it in spoilers!

Future TNA IMPACT spoilers - minor but funny:

[Hero]

After joking the other day that TNA was saved due to Bram and Grado dancing, I can now reveal from last nights tapings why they are really saved. I will put it in spoilers!

Future TNA IMPACT spoilers - minor but funny:

Spoiler:

[Dolphin Ziggler]

More TNA s***:

[Fernando]

More TNA s***:

TNA Poopie:

GM Spoiler:

[Enforcer]

Trolling the dirt sheets is potentially one of the most stupid things TNA have done. Whilst they might get one over on them, a large portion of wrestling fans now believe that those matches will happen. Surely any sort of businesses hypes up it's product, rather than making up coming shows look worse in the eyes of potential customers/viewers.

[Fernando]

The future of TNA :

[Prometheus]

I will watch that! Unless there is any part of it that involves hitting each other over the head with prosthetic / severed limbs.

[Fernando]

I will watch that!  Unless there is any part of it that involves hitting each other over the head with prosthetic / severed limbs.

TNA Spoiler:

[Prometheus]

[Fernando]

The future of TNA :

Lethal Lockdown Winner:

[Prometheus]

The future of TNA :

Lethal Lockdown Winner:

Spoiler:

[Fernando]

The future of TNA :

Lethal Lockdown Winner:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Prometheus]

The future of TNA :

Lethal Lockdown Winner:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Adam D]

Firstly, its Melendez leg on a pole match 

Secondly, although the tapings do seem insane, they are of interest to me - loads of new faces and feuds. I will put below some spoilers to try and make sense of things:

upcoming spoilers:

Now what I believe (as in opinion) has happened is that Dixie has offered to buy out the remaining JJ ownership in real life in return for a HoF spot and a brief program to promote GFW as a competitor.

In return, it allows Dixie to sell TNA without any contest from JJ. This I believe is now the end game for the Carters and Jeff. JJ gets his money to help make GFW and Dixie/ Panda gets out of dodge at the first opportunity.

[Prometheus]

Very interesting hypothesis Adam and one that I can buy. I mean, JJ had 29% of nothing. Or, worse he had 29% of some debt. By taking what was on offer here, he'd be able to back out of this promotion cleanly.

So, we can conclude from that that Dixie will not sell to JJ, because why do that if you are then going to buy the company. Which opens the question of who would buy TNA and for how much? Given that 29% of the company has just been written off as a HOF spot and a brief co-promotional angle.

[talkingpoint]

Very interesting hypothesis Adam and one that I can buy.  I mean, JJ had 29% of nothing.  Or, worse he had 29% of some debt.  By taking what was on offer here, he'd be able to back out of this promotion cleanly.

So, we can conclude from that that Dixie will not sell to JJ, because why do that if you are then going to buy the company.  Which opens the question of who would buy TNA and for how much?  Given that 29% of the company has just been written off as a HOF spot and a brief co-promotional angle.

That is the question. Another question is if Dixie sells will she still be part of the company? Or does selling mean that Dixie will finally leave? There may be some hope left for TNA is she manages to sell. A new direction and new captain at the helm are long overdue.

[Fernando]

Davey has knocked up Angelina Love. Someone get the coathanger...

[Crimey]

James Storm has now left TNA.

I know this is all supposed to be good because they're clearing their big earners out, but it's hardly a great sign. I think it'll take a lot now for TNA to survive in its current form.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Left left, or GFW left?

[dyrewolfe]

The future of TNA :

Lethal Lockdown Winner:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Well if you're trying to avoid going out of business, botching going out of business doesn't sound like a bad thing...

Jesus...some of these upcoming matches sound hilarious. I will probably end up watching out of morbid curiosity.

I just hope TNA don't teeter on the brink much longer. Like one of their storylines...the talent on show will only keep things interesting for so long. In the end we want to know if they're going to survive or fold. Preferably sooner rather than later...

They should still be able to have a future, but some big decisions need to be made and soon.

[Adam D]

I watched this weeks Tna today and it was the first full show that I have watched in months.

As you all know, I was always very high on TNA (most thought just high) but I fell out of love with Tna and wrestling in general, once meltzer started all of the DA rumours.

Anyway, back to this weeks show - I was pleasantly surprised. As someone who has only really kept up with spoilers now and then, it felt like a really good effort and way more entertaining than the ol' E.

There wasn't any bad bits to it and there were a few surprisingly good bits.

Firstly, Eli Drake. Sorry, I mean E-Li-Drake. For someone who looks like a generic wrestler, he is not only very good in the ring but also cuts an excellent promo. His facial expressions remind me of EC3 a lot and although he is in a frivolous feud with Grado (or the masked Odarg), he is really carrying a good mid card feud. He isn't ready for the main card yet but if they can find a good character for him, then he has the makings of a top guy.

The miracle Mike Bennet. Once again, his look is very bland but I absolutely love his intro. Billy corgan talked about trying to make entrances more cinematic and I think the introduction by Maria absolutely nails it. Love the gimmick and production of his entrance. Let's hope he gets the rub off angle on his way out.

The decay. Who would of thought that abyss and crazzy Steve could be entertaining? Well it looks like they have both found something that works for them. Tag team division is in good health with these two, wolves, beer money and Bram/Eric Young.

Finally EC3 remains on top form. Shame Matt hardy is champ but at least the storyline is interesting. Ec3 has all the makings of one of the best faces ever for TNA.

Anyway, nice fluid show. The only disappointment was the state of the knockouts. Same faces still and they ain't getting any younger.

[Samo]

TNA's knockout division is always going to struggle against NXT's women.

[dyrewolfe]

Eh. For once I think I'm going to rain on Adam's parade. I've been keeping half an eye on TNA and TBH I'm struggling to stay interested.

The UK shows are always better (or at least have a better atmosphere) thanks to the bigger venues and livelier crowds. However the shows haven't produced any great moments IMHO.

The EC3 / Matt Hardy feud is good and I'm liking the potential mending of fences between Ethan and Spud.

Didn't really enjoy the Godderz - Drake vs Shera - "Odarg" tag team match. While he's undoubtedly a likeable character, Grado is a joke in the ring...at least in the company he's keeping.

Absolutely zero believeability that he could hang with the guys he's put in against. I was frankly hoping we'd seen the last of him when he drew the "Fired" briefcase. Maybe he's just been kept on the for the UK tour and will stay here once they go back Stateside?

Mike Bennett - still not sold on him and Maria's intros are becoming annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if he actually looked or acted like a "miracle", but he's just coming across another heelish figure whose ego far outstrips his personality or ability.

Decay - well, they're interesting...for now. Problem is you have a group with a good (if strange) image but no voice. Abyss is the only one who seems to do any mic work and he is hardly the most talkative character. Glad Crazzy Steve is no longer a sad tragi-comic figure, but it would help if he could actually talk. They need somebody to tell their story, put their angle / intentions / motivations across, to be truly interesting.

As for the Knockouts, I still rate them as top talent as far as wrestling ability goes. They just suffer from the same problem most of TNA's talent has - lack of creative direction and zero-dimensional characters. When they all come across as either tough, steely faces or crazy / whiny / screamo heels, it gets old fast.

[Adam D]

Eh. For once I think I'm going to rain on Adam's parade. I've been keeping half an eye on TNA and TBH I'm struggling to stay interested.

The UK shows are always better (or at least have a better atmosphere) thanks to the bigger venues and livelier crowds. However the shows haven't produced any great moments IMHO.

The EC3 / Matt Hardy feud is good and I'm liking the potential mending of fences between Ethan and Spud.

Didn't really enjoy the Godderz - Drake vs Shera - "Odarg" tag team match. While he's undoubtedly a likeable character, Grado is a joke in the ring...at least in the company he's keeping.

Absolutely zero believeability that he could hang with the guys he's put in against. I was frankly hoping we'd seen the last of him when he drew the "Fired" briefcase. Maybe he's just been kept on the for the UK tour and will stay here once they go back Stateside?

Mike Bennett - still not sold on him and Maria's intros are becoming annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if he actually looked or acted like a "miracle", but he's just coming across another heelish figure whose ego far outstrips his personality or ability.

Decay - well, they're interesting...for now. Problem is you have a group with a good (if strange) image but no voice. Abyss is the only one who seems to do any mic work and he is hardly the most talkative character. Glad Crazzy Steve is no longer a sad tragi-comic figure, but it would help if he could actually talk. They need somebody to tell their story, put their angle / intentions / motivations across, to be truly interesting.

As for the Knockouts, I still rate them as top talent as far as wrestling ability goes. They just suffer from the same problem most of TNA's talent has - lack of creative direction and zero-dimensional characters. When they all come across as either tough, steely faces or crazy / whiny / screamo heels, it gets old fast.

So basically the exact opposite

I agree about Mike Bennett. I just think the intro is really cool.

And I really rate E-li drake. The grade thing is annoying but as a Midgard light relief, it does its job. There is a huge upside to Eli and possibly Jessie too in the future.

If they could find a gimmick for drake, he could be a top star. He has the chops and in ring skills but just missing a direction. I think he would have suited the miracle gimmick to be honest!

[dyrewolfe]

Lol - basically yes.

I think most of the roster has potential...they're all capable wrestlers. The problems are with the characters (or lack thereof) and the booking.

Agree about Eli (sorry...E...Li...Drake). I think he has better presence and a more forceful personality that would go well with the "miracle" gimmick.

Grado could be good, but I think he needs a regular partner as a foil / "straight man" or maybe a gimmick like Al Snow's doll head. Plain "Scottish plonker" doesn't really cut it for me. They should book him like they did with Eric Young, back when he was a face.

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