TRC Round 1: Australia v South Africa, 18 July

by **George Carlin** Mon 29 Jun 2015, 5:45 am

AUSTRALIA v SOUTH AFRICA
18 July 2015
20:05 AEST (UTC+10)
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

TV TBC

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant Referees: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Recent History

27 September 2014 - Newlands, Cape Town
28 – 10 to South Africa

6 September 2014 - Patersons Stadium, Perth
24 – 23 to Australia

28 September 2013 - Newlands, Cape Town
28 – 8 to South Africa

7 September 2013 - Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane
12 – 38 to South Africa

29 September 2012 - Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
31 – 8 to South Africa

8 September 2012 - Patersons Stadium, Perth
26 – 19 to Australia

B. Squads

1. Australia

Backs: Adam Ashley-Cooper, Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Israel Folau, Bernard Foley, Will Genia, Matt Giteau, Rob Horne, Samu Kerevi, Tevita Kuridrani, Christian Lealiifano, Drew Mitchell, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Nick Phipps, Henry Speight, Matt Toomua, Joe Tomane, Nic White.

Forwards: David Pocock, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Scott Sio, Rob Simmons, Will Skelton, James Slipper, Toby Smith, Wyclif Palu, Ben McCalman, Sean McMahon, Dean Mumm, Stephen Moore, Sekope Kepu, Rory Arnold, Dave Dennis, James Hanson, Scott Fardy, Tetera Faulkner, James Horwill, Scott Higginbotham, Greg Holmes, Michael Hooper

2. South Africa

Forwards: Willem Alberts, Schalk Brits, Schalk Burger, Marcell Coetzee, Eben Etzebeth, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw, Frans Malherbe, Victor Matfield, Heinke van der Merwe, Marcel van der Merwe, Teboho 'Oupa' Mohoje, Francois Mostert, Tendai Mtawarira, Scarra Ntubeni, Trevor Nyakane, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Warren Whiteley

Backs: Damian de Allende, Bryan Habana, Cornal Hendricks, Elton Jantjies, Zane Kirchner, Faf de Klerk, Jesse Kriel, Lwazi Mvovo, Rudy Paige, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Handre Pollard, Willie le Roux, Morne Steyn

Conditioning squad (injured players)

Heinrich Brussow, Jaque Fourie, Lood de Jager, Patrick Lambie, Lionel Mapoe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Fourie du Preez, Cobus Reinach, Jan Serfontein, Francois Steyn, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Duane Vermeulen, Jean de Villiers

C. Teams

1. Australia
TRC Round 1: Australia v South Africa, 18 July Margot10

TRC Round 1: Australia v South Africa, 18 July Margot10

01. James Slipper - (Reds - 63 Tests)
02. Stephen Moore, C - (Brumbies - 92 Tests)
03. Sekope Kepu (Waratahs - 52 Tests)
04. Will Skelton (Waratahs - 8 Tests)
05. Rob Simmons (Reds - 50 Tests)
06. Scott Fardy (Brumbies - 20 Tests)
07. Michael Hooper, VC - (Waratahs 42 Tests)
08. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels -31 Tests)

09. Will Genia (Reds - 58 Tests)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds - 53 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (Waratahs 25 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (Toulon - 92 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (Brumbies - 20 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper, VC - (Waratahs - 104 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs - 29 Tests)

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs - 50 Tests)
17. Scott Sio (Brumbies - 5 Tests)
18. Greg Holmes (Reds - 13 Tests)
19. James Horwill (Reds - 58 Tests)
20. David Pocock (Brumbies - 46 Tests)
21. Nick Phipps (Waratahs - 28 Tests)
22. Matt Toomua (Brumbies 21 Tests)
23. Drew Mitchell (Toulon - 63 Caps)

2. South Africa
TRC Round 1: Australia v South Africa, 18 July Charli10

TRC Round 1: Australia v South Africa, 18 July Charli10

01. Tendai Mtawarira
02. Bismarck du Plessis
03. Jannie du Plessis
04. Eben Etzebeth
05. Victor Matfield (c)
06. Francois Louw
07. Marcell Coetzee
08. Schalk Burger

09. Ruan Pienaar (vc)
10. Handré Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Damian de Allende
13. Jesse Kriel
14. JP Pietersen
15. Willie le Roux

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Heinke van der Merwe
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Lood de Jager
20. Oupa Mohoje
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Pat Lambie
23. Lwazi Mvovo

by **George Carlin** Wed 01 Jul 2015, 6:39 am

I would have thought that the picture of Margot Robbie was worth a comment, at the very least...

by Fanster Wed 01 Jul 2015, 7:02 am

I think the last RC pre RWC was a bit of a non event, with NZ and SA not really going full throttle.

The thinking is that with a demanding run up to the RWC anyway, a lot of first team players (Including a lot on the conditioning list) won't be too involved, with limited game time possibly.

It's interesting to see Owens involved heavily throughout the RC and RWC though, the refs must be in some shape for nearly 4 months of rugby after a full season.

by **rodders** Wed 01 Jul 2015, 8:15 am

Yeah can definitely see these teams, especially the boks keeping the powder dry and taking it easy in the rc.

by Guest Thu 02 Jul 2015, 1:41 am

Wallabies squad:

Backs: Adam Ashley-Cooper, Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Israel Folau, Bernard Foley, Will Genia, Matt Giteau, Rob Horne, Samu Kerevi, Tevita Kuridrani, Christian Lealiifano, Drew Mitchell, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Nick Phipps, Henry Speight, Matt Toomua, Joe Tomane, Nic White.

Forwards: David Pocock, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Scott Sio, Rob Simmons, Will Skelton, James Slipper, Toby Smith, Wyclif Palu, Ben McCalman, Sean McMahon, Dean Mumm, Stephen Moore, Sekope Kepu, Rory Arnold, Dave Dennis, James Hanson, Scott Fardy, Tetera Faulkner, James Horwill, Scott Higginbotham, Greg Holmes, Michael Hooper.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/69915974/Michael-Cheika-overlooks-James-O-Connor-and-Karmichael-Hunt-for-Wallabies-duties

by GunsGerms Thu 02 Jul 2015, 5:00 am

Does that mean James O'Connor and Cummins are probably not going to the world cup? Also no Robinson or Alexander?? Is now really the time for a new front row?

Plenty of exiles in that squad.

by BamBam Thu 02 Jul 2015, 5:07 am

Can't remember whether Robinson/Alexander are looseheads or tightheads, but Holmes has been the best Aussie tighthead by far IMO, so don't think they're losing out on much there, and Sio/Slipper will be decent at loosehead too

by **George Carlin** Thu 02 Jul 2015, 6:24 am

This puts Naiyaravoro's move to Glasgow in jeopardy, it seems.

The question is whether he will make the reduced squad of 31. Will he really take a shirt from Mitchell, Speight or Tomane? Very hard to tell. He is a fashionable choice but much less experienced that those guys. I honestly thought that O'Connor would get the slot instead of Big Tacky and I will be mightily urined off if this means he isn't coming to Glasgow.

by **Notch** Thu 02 Jul 2015, 6:40 am

Well, if you're the Aussie coach you give him a few games in the Rugby Championship (which is basically relegated to a warm-up the year before the RWC) get him to cancel his move to Glasgow, then even if he doesn't make the RWC squad he's going to be staying home and pushing for more caps.

by The Saint Thu 02 Jul 2015, 7:51 am

I seen the Wallabies squad this morning, it's a very strong one. I'm not sure about the front row omissions, you would have liked a bit of experience there maybe... Unless Cheika just sees this RC as a warm-up where he can blood some new players. Some NH teams will be doing that in their warm-up games. JOC has been quite erratic according to reports, with the return of Giteau and Foley in the driving seat that's no great loss. Not so sure about losing Cummins though. He would be good for team morale at least...

by emack2 Sun 05 Jul 2015, 4:55 pm

Since SA are quoted as saying they are using full quota of non-white players in the RC.
SARFU words not MINE.I have no idea of the quality of these players can someone enlighten me?

Since Jake White rested key players 2007,and it also happened 2011 when NZ retaliated.
Aus winning is very likely,second NZ game may be contested as it`s for Bledisloe Cup.

Since no RC winning team has won RWC in same year it`s a bit of a misnomer.

by **George Carlin** Mon 13 Jul 2015, 8:22 am

Starting to gear up for these games.

This from Cully in the SMH:

Wallabies should pick Quade Cooper and Matt Giteau against the Springboks
Date July 9, 2015

For some in the Wallabies camp, the All Blacks' discomfort in stages of their win against Samoa in Apia on Wednesday would have been nothing of a surprise.

Four years ago, in similar circumstances, the Wallabies took on Samoa off a short preparation with Reds players still giddy after their 2011 Super Rugby title. The result is well known. Rod Davies was never seen again, Matt Hodgson spent years in the wilderness and Matt Giteau was soon heading for a conversation with Robbie Deans that did not end well.

The sense of symmetry does not end there this week. Pictures of Giteau and Drew Mitchell at training brought back memories of the famous Hong Kong Test against the All Blacks in 2010.

The back line that day was Will Genia, Quade Cooper, Matt Giteau, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Mitchell, James O'Connor and Kurtley Beale.

Sound familiar? Replace O'Connor with Israel Folau, move a few pieces around and the Hong Kong band could be put back together against the Springboks on Saturday week. And in this Wallabies side, the hardest to select in years, there is a certain logic in doing just that.

That back line had something thrilling about it, undoubtedly enhanced by the fact whenever they played disaster was also a possibility. Beale recorded a comical falcon in the historic Bloemfontein victory minutes before kicking a penalty over from what seemed like about 300 metres, on the angle. Cooper couldn't tackle. It was a high-wire act. They moved on to Cardiff, where they had too much for Wales, disappointed against England in a loss the following week, regained composure with a win against Italy, and then tore the French to absolute shreds in Paris.

That level of unpredictability won't return if you pick the same back line again. In fact, you don't want it to. But you do want to learn whether there is now enough maturity in that group (the talent has never been a question) to really deliver on the promise.

And if they are not to be tested now, then when? Giteau and Mitchell have just come off a successful season in Europe, while Genia and Cooper are on familiar territory. Moreover, at this stage of the World Cup build-up it's two minutes to midnight. There is no time to slowly reintegrate the European returnees, nor time to dally over the readiness of the Queenslanders. Get them in and await signs of the old chemistry. If they can play with width and verve then the Wallabies increase their options. If they fall in a heap, or cannot handle the Springboks traffic coming down the No.10-12 channel a lesson has still been learnt, and in good time.

In one sense Giteau doesn't need this. He doesn't really need Springboks flankers Marcell Coetzee and Francois Louw trying to eat him up and spit him out. He's got a nice life in France. It's about hunger for him, and whether he now gets his kicks from being an organiser, the man who puts others into gaps, because it is probably too much to ask of those legs to carry quite the same zip as they had in his 20s.

With that in mind Tevita Kuridrani looms as a possibility to straighten up the back line alongside Giteau in the manner of Stirling Mortlock, who always seemed to bring the best out of Giteau at No.12. Beale, short of rugby, may be best suited to a bench role in the first instance.

There is barely a need to discuss the merits of Nick Phipps and Bernard Foley. Everyone knows what they can do. Their chances are guaranteed.

But Brisbane provides an opportunity to see what others can bring under the Michael Cheika template. Hong Kong seems a long time ago. It's time to find out whether it still holds any relevance or is just ancient history.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 13 Jul 2015, 8:58 am

I'd forgotten that the SH quartet were due to beat the seven bells out of each other.

I don't wish any injuries on anyone, but if a rare and hitherto unknown epidemic could strike South Africa such that their players fainted at the sight of pasty white blokes with ginger hear wearing dark blue jerseys then I wouldn't be complaining too much.

by Guest Mon 13 Jul 2015, 4:15 pm

South Africa are flying under the radar a bit. Their teams didn't show up for a fight in Super rugby. I'm expecting a muted RC from them so they're written off. And then an epic RWC to prove everyone wrong. I reckon the Wallabies will win this one.

by Mr Fishpaste Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:08 am

Although, some key boks seem to be returning to their best form at just the right time. Bismarck, Jannie, Eben Etzebeth, Marcell Coetzee, Schalk Burger all seem to be peaking at the right time (some of them have had a woeful year or two leading up to his point.)

by **George Carlin** Thu 16 Jul 2015, 6:30 am

OP updated.

Very interesting game and I'm looking forward to seeing how that Bokke backline works together.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 16 Jul 2015, 8:58 am

Genia and Cooper back in tandem is exciting, and it frightens me that Pocock only makes the bench for Australia (he's no John Hardie though....).

Not familiar with the Bok centres. Any gossip on those two? Presume Burger is just keeping the 8 jersey warm for Vermuelen to return.

by BamBam Thu 16 Jul 2015, 9:13 am

Vermeulen is injured, was a rumour a week or two ago that he could miss the tournament ...

De Allende looks pretty good to me, haven't seen him play for SA, but has performed well in Super Rugby for last 2 seasons. Kriel is a full back usually I think

by Mr Fishpaste Thu 16 Jul 2015, 4:49 pm

RE Vermuelen: there's even doubt about whether he can make the World Cup!

De Allende and Kriel were very good against the World XV...we'll have to see if they're as good against Australia...If they are then it'll be a promising midfield combination.

by Sgt_Pooly Fri 17 Jul 2015, 2:56 pm

Really exciting Bok back line with De Allende, Kriel & WLR. Not sure how JP keeps getting picked. This should be a great game.

by Duty281 Sat 18 Jul 2015, 8:08 am

Tremendous, and deserved, victory for Australia. South Africa were surprisingly poor, particularly at the set-piece.

by Icu Sat 18 Jul 2015, 8:18 am

Wallabies win in the 81st minute. yay!

by Mr Fishpaste Sat 18 Jul 2015, 8:37 am

Duty281 wrote:Tremendous, and deserved, victory for Australia. South Africa were surprisingly poor, particularly at the set-piece.

The Boks were only poor in the set piece in the last 25 mins I felt. They really looked like they went to sleep, and by the time they woke up, it was too late to stop Aussie momentum.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 18 Jul 2015, 8:57 am

I'd be happy for England to face the Wallabies of the first half and the Boks of the second.

If only it could be that easy...

by Guest Sat 18 Jul 2015, 9:08 am

Good game to watch. The wallabies look like they finally have a bench that adds something. Agree with Mr Fishpaste. SA were hammering the wallabies scrum for the majority of that game. They just went to sleep or more likely their bench lacked the will. Gittaeu looks like a midget these days. Maybe he could play half back?

by **profitius** Sat 18 Jul 2015, 3:53 pm

This is where knowing a ref comes into play. How many times have we seen Owens penalise a side holding onto the ball with a minute to go. Thas what cost Ireland against NZ and SA against Aus today. Its what knocked Racing Metro out of the champion cup last season and I've seen him do it other times. SA didn't do there homework there otherwise they would have booted the ball down the pitch.

Overall SA deserved the win but credit Aus for coming back. Aus looked more dangeous in the opposition 22 and that was the main difference. Also, Folau dominated the aeriel battle and gained valuable possession many times for Aus.

by Cyril Sat 18 Jul 2015, 4:03 pm

That AAC try was a cracker. Great line, pace and strength.

He's probably my favourite non-English player. Versatile, intelligent and has a real eye for the line.

That final try was very touch-and-go though. Very difficult to see the grounding even with two angles to (just about) show that it was on the line and down. Especially as it was a Yes/No decision.

Pleased to see the Aussies win though.

by Gwlad Sat 18 Jul 2015, 4:12 pm

SA demise continues. Samoa will smell blood. Even Scots might. 10 SA pens after 50 minutes Shocked

by Cyril Sat 18 Jul 2015, 4:44 pm

Gwlad wrote:SA demise continues. Samoa will smell blood. Even Scots might. 10 SA pens after 50 minutes

Let's not get carried away. They just lost to Aus (in Aus).

by Guest Sat 18 Jul 2015, 4:48 pm

AAC try was decent. As a lock, I liked Ezebeth's too.

by Gwlad Sat 18 Jul 2015, 4:53 pm

Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:SA demise continues. Samoa will smell blood. Even Scots might. 10 SA pens after 50 minutes
Let's not get carried away. They just lost to Aus (in Aus).

Samoa gave NZ a good game. They will front up tp the physicality of the Boks with interest, in fact the physical nature of the game will assist them. If Samoa can maintain any discipline then i expect the game to be extremely close and for me the game could be the shock result of the RWC.

by Cyril Sat 18 Jul 2015, 5:03 pm

Risca Rev wrote:AAC try was decent. As a lock, I liked Ezebeth's too.

I missed that one. Didn't see the whole game. I'll check it out.

by Cyril Sat 18 Jul 2015, 5:06 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:SA demise continues. Samoa will smell blood. Even Scots might. 10 SA pens after 50 minutes
Let's not get carried away. They just lost to Aus (in Aus).

Samoa gave NZ a good game. They will front up tp the physicality of the Boks with interest, in fact the physical nature of the game will assist them. If Samoa can maintain any discipline then i expect the game to be extremely close and for me the game could be the shock result of the RWC.

The Samoa/NZ game was essentially a warm-up game. Samoa were going to be to completely up for it against a rusty NZ. I'm not downplaying Samoa's ability but I fully expect NZ, Aus and SA to step up a gear for the RWC and this truncated RC is another warm-up for the RWC.

I don't think either Samoa or Scotland will come close to SA in the pool. the Samoa/Scotland game will be the humdinger.

by Gwlad Sat 18 Jul 2015, 9:24 pm

Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:SA demise continues. Samoa will smell blood. Even Scots might. 10 SA pens after 50 minutes
Let's not get carried away. They just lost to Aus (in Aus).

Samoa gave NZ a good game. They will front up tp the physicality of the Boks with interest, in fact the physical nature of the game will assist them. If Samoa can maintain any discipline then i expect the game to be extremely close and for me the game could be the shock result of the RWC.

The Samoa/NZ game was essentially a warm-up game. Samoa were going to be to completely up for it against a rusty NZ. I'm not downplaying Samoa's ability but I fully expect NZ, Aus and SA to step up a gear for the RWC and this truncated RC is another warm-up for the RWC.

I don't think either Samoa or Scotland will come close to SA in the pool. the Samoa/Scotland game will be the humdinger.

Samoa NZ of course was a warmup. But Samoa will be hungry after it and i think they will feel that if they can bully the Boks then anything is possible. While i get RC is a warm up this year, I entirely disagree that SA will win in comfort. SA looked chastened and, rusty or not, they shipped 2 tries and squandered a 10 point margin with 20 minutes left while also committing 10 penalty offences! Aus are well known to bethe team that can sneak the result in the final 1/4 , perhaps only NZ do it better, but SA bent over andhanded Aus opportunity after opportunity. SAscrum was shocking.

Since SA now have to follow the same rules as the rest of us, their traditional hard man approach has taken a massive hit up especially front. The pack no longer looks abrasive and aggressive as it did in recent years and I think Samoa will aim to do to them what Aus did for the last 30 minutes; when SA meet a pack that is equally or more aggressive they often do a France and their heads go down. If Samoa can riasr their game enough to keep penatly discipline and are fit enough, they have more than enough to push them close enough. Of course Samoa Scotland will be the likely decider but i always expect an RWC shock result and this is the one I am expecting.

by Guest Sat 18 Jul 2015, 9:34 pm

As much as I'd like to see Samoa beat SA it just seems a bridge too far. It could happen but unlikely. If it was a tight game I can just see SA pulling out all their tricks to milk penalties in kickable parts of the field or rolling maul the heck out of the game.

All teams playing England, Argentina and SA need to learn how to combat the rolling maul. Not entering into the contest seems like the best way and refs seem to be more onto it with this tactic these days as it becomes more commonly used. Or like what SA did to the wallabies last night, fall into a heap just as the opponent lineout jumper catches the ball and lands so the maul has nowhere to go (is this legal? SA did it and got away with it).

by Guest Sat 18 Jul 2015, 9:39 pm

And Samoa's breakdown play is pretty impressive these days so that's a plus for them.

by Gwlad Sat 18 Jul 2015, 9:43 pm

ebop wrote:As much as I'd like to see Samoa beat SA it just seems a bridge too far. It could happen but unlikely. If it was a tight game I can just see SA pulling out all their tricks to milk penalties in kickable parts of the field or rolling maul the heck out of the game.

All teams playing England, Argentina and SA need to learn how to combat the rolling maul. Not entering into the contest seems like the best way and refs seem to be more onto it with this tactic these days as it becomes more commonly used. Or like what SA did to the wallabies last night, fall into a heap just as the opponent lineout jumper catches the ball and lands so the maul has nowhere to go (is this legal? SA did it and got away with it).

It's legal if they dont pull it down, if possessing team falls over them i cant see the offence. Quite obviously though that was the tactic of SA at that last lineout and i expect refs will belooking very closely at what defending side does in rolling maul. SA will no doubt be a different beast come the autumn but it just goes to show how a team can fall apart in a mater of minutes. If Samoa come out of the bloks in the raging bull manner i expect then it will be a hell of a physical contest and my money on winning the collisions goes to them. Of course SA are the biggame team but so often at RWC we see the big game team, ahem, choke.

by Guest Sat 18 Jul 2015, 10:14 pm

Ah ok, thanks Gwlad re the maul collapse info.

Yes, choke indeed. Or beaten by the better team on the day. Or beaten by some other, ahem, factors.
Whistle

All I know for sure is, is that there will be some heat generated in the collisions in the Samoa v SA game and it will be a must see compelling watch.

by Gwlad Sun 19 Jul 2015, 1:51 am

1645 UST 26 September, i reckon it may register on the richter scale.

by Cyril Sun 19 Jul 2015, 7:29 am

If it comes down to being tough SA will smash Samoa like they did in 2013.

Let's hope there's no ball-grabbing again by Samoa. Some of their cowardly tactics seem to be ignored or glossed over because they're not a 'big' rugby nation. Whenever you hear about Samoan (or Tongan or Fijian) 'big hits' it generally means a high shot, but that's ok because they're just 'enthusiastic'.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 19 Jul 2015, 7:41 am

Gwlad wrote:1645 UST 26 September, i reckon it may register on the richter scale.

Certainly not a bad little warm up game ready for the main event Smile

by doctor_grey Sun 19 Jul 2015, 11:43 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Gwlad wrote:1645 UST 26 September, i reckon it may register on the richter scale.

Certainly not a bad little warm up game ready for the main event

Gents, I stayed up late to watch USA-Samoa on Saturday night. K/O was 22:30 NY time (that's 10:30pm for the more civilised amongst us). Samoa did indeed come out hard against the Eagles and it looked like they might 'Tuilagi' them off the pitch. However, this was also the Eagles first match and they slowly got their feet under them and played a pretty even second half. I know this is only one game, but I don't think I saw a team which would trouble a Tier 1 nation too much.

by Mr Fishpaste Sun 19 Jul 2015, 12:52 pm

Don't get too excited Gwlad! I agree the Boks took their foot off the gas in the final quarter, but the game came down to a TMO call that could have gone either way, and if it had gone the boks' way then would you still feel so confident in backing Samoa?

A couple of notes:The Boks were not dominated in the forwards in the first half, in fact it was the other way around, the Aussie scrum went backwards, and they were not able to steal any bok ball at the breakdown...what the match did show, however, is that the bok replacements (props and loose forwards in particular) were quite far off the pace set by the first choice players. When the replacement props came on, the boks scrum deteriorated, and when Bismarck and Coetzee went off (and Pocock came on) then the balance shifted at the breakdown and the boks found themselves unable to get their hands on the ball (this compounded by their confounded strategy of kicking all possession to Falau!)

by Gwlad Sun 19 Jul 2015, 2:14 pm

Mr Fishpaste wrote:Don't get too excited Gwlad! I agree the Boks took their foot off the gas in the final quarter, but the game came down to a TMO call that could have gone either way, and if it had gone the boks' way then would you still feel so confident in backing Samoa?

A couple of notes:The Boks were not dominated in the forwards in the first half, in fact it was the other way around, the Aussie scrum went backwards, and they were not able to steal any bok ball at the breakdown...what the match did show, however, is that the bok replacements (props and loose forwards in particular) were quite far off the pace set by the first choice players. When the replacement props came on, the boks scrum deteriorated, and when Bismarck and Coetzee went off (and Pocock came on) then the balance shifted at the breakdown and the boks found themselves unable to get their hands on the ball (this compounded by their confounded strategy of kicking all possession to Falau!)

I was backing Samoa before this game, weeks ago in fact. I just see a tier 1 on the slide and a tier 3 with RWC provenance in their group who can match them where the metal meets the meat. Yes Samoa are rank outsiders, yes SA will step up on the day….i just have a feeling it will be a physical battle that
Samoa will win and when SA lose that side of the game they have lost their main weapon (aside from surprise and fear)

by Gwlad Sun 19 Jul 2015, 2:17 pm

Ref Folau you're pretty f#$ked though when it comes to clearance kicks v Aus…kick to him and he will return with interest or kick to touch and face the Aussie back line off first phase. Not sure which is more alarming. At least v Wales i can see Biggar and Half as real contenders for recovering the high ball so i expect to see us using the Garry Owen more than deep kicks.

by doctor_grey Sun 19 Jul 2015, 2:26 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Mr Fishpaste wrote:Don't get too excited Gwlad! I agree the Boks took their foot off the gas in the final quarter, but the game came down to a TMO call that could have gone either way, and if it had gone the boks' way then would you still feel so confident in backing Samoa?

A couple of notes:The Boks were not dominated in the forwards in the first half, in fact it was the other way around, the Aussie scrum went backwards, and they were not able to steal any bok ball at the breakdown...what the match did show, however, is that the bok replacements (props and loose forwards in particular) were quite far off the pace set by the first choice players. When the replacement props came on, the boks scrum deteriorated, and when Bismarck and Coetzee went off (and Pocock came on) then the balance shifted at the breakdown and the boks found themselves unable to get their hands on the ball (this compounded by their confounded strategy of kicking all possession to Falau!)

I was backing Samoa before this game, weeks ago in fact. I just see a tier 1 on the slide and a tier 3 with RWC provenance in their group who can match them where the metal meets the meat. Yes Samoa are rank outsiders, yes SA will step up on the day….i just have a feeling it will be a physical battle that
Samoa will win and when SA lose that side of the game they have lost their main weapon (aside from surprise and fear)

Mate, I can't see it. Samoa don't look very threatening to me.

I agree with Mr. Fishpaste the Boks scrum and breakdown were better than the Wallabies in the first half. When the replacements came on there was a reversal in fortune. On the other hand, the Samoa scrum didn't appear better than the American scrum, especially once the Americans got into the match. Last night Samoa's two best players, arguably of course, were a former Premiership wing and a current 3rd choice Premiership fullback.

by Gwlad Sun 19 Jul 2015, 2:44 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Mr Fishpaste wrote:Don't get too excited Gwlad! I agree the Boks took their foot off the gas in the final quarter, but the game came down to a TMO call that could have gone either way, and if it had gone the boks' way then would you still feel so confident in backing Samoa?

A couple of notes:The Boks were not dominated in the forwards in the first half, in fact it was the other way around, the Aussie scrum went backwards, and they were not able to steal any bok ball at the breakdown...what the match did show, however, is that the bok replacements (props and loose forwards in particular) were quite far off the pace set by the first choice players. When the replacement props came on, the boks scrum deteriorated, and when Bismarck and Coetzee went off (and Pocock came on) then the balance shifted at the breakdown and the boks found themselves unable to get their hands on the ball (this compounded by their confounded strategy of kicking all possession to Falau!)

I was backing Samoa before this game, weeks ago in fact. I just see a tier 1 on the slide and a tier 3 with RWC provenance in their group who can match them where the metal meets the meat. Yes Samoa are rank outsiders, yes SA will step up on the day….i just have a feeling it will be a physical battle that
Samoa will win and when SA lose that side of the game they have lost their main weapon (aside from surprise and fear)
Mate, I can't see it. Samoa don't look very threatening to me.

I agree with Mr. Fishpaste the Boks scrum and breakdown were better than the Wallabies in the first half. When the replacements came on there was a reversal in fortune. On the other hand, the Samoa scrum didn't appear better than the American scrum, especially once the Americans got into the match. Last night Samoa's two best players, arguably of course, were a former Premiership wing and a current 3rd choice Premiership fullback.

I agree entirely. I will probably be very wrong….i just have a feeling in my water doc.

by Gwlad Sun 19 Jul 2015, 2:46 pm

And Samoa used a totally different side to the one that ran NZ somewhat close.

by Cyril Sun 19 Jul 2015, 2:47 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Mr Fishpaste wrote:Don't get too excited Gwlad! I agree the Boks took their foot off the gas in the final quarter, but the game came down to a TMO call that could have gone either way, and if it had gone the boks' way then would you still feel so confident in backing Samoa?

A couple of notes:The Boks were not dominated in the forwards in the first half, in fact it was the other way around, the Aussie scrum went backwards, and they were not able to steal any bok ball at the breakdown...what the match did show, however, is that the bok replacements (props and loose forwards in particular) were quite far off the pace set by the first choice players. When the replacement props came on, the boks scrum deteriorated, and when Bismarck and Coetzee went off (and Pocock came on) then the balance shifted at the breakdown and the boks found themselves unable to get their hands on the ball (this compounded by their confounded strategy of kicking all possession to Falau!)

I was backing Samoa before this game, weeks ago in fact. I just see a tier 1 on the slide and a tier 3 with RWC provenance in their group who can match them where the metal meets the meat. Yes Samoa are rank outsiders, yes SA will step up on the day….i just have a feeling it will be a physical battle that
Samoa will win and when SA lose that side of the game they have lost their main weapon (aside from surprise and fear)

Not sure what real RWC provenance Samoa have. In fact they've been getting steadily worse at RWCs as time goes on.

2011 - out in pool stage
2007 - out in pool stage
2003 - out in pool stage
1999 - quarter-final playoffs - lost to Scotland
1995 - quarter-final - lost to SA
1991 - quarter-final - lost to Scotland
1987 - not invited

Other than beating Wales and Argentina a couple of times at RWCs what have they actually done? I think your view might be skewed a bit as you've come off badly against them a few times.

I don't think they're as good a side as they have been in the past and even on an off-day I think SA should beat them quite comfortably (15-20 points probably).

by doctor_grey Sun 19 Jul 2015, 7:05 pm

Gwlad wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Mr Fishpaste wrote:Don't get too excited Gwlad! I agree the Boks took their foot off the gas in the final quarter, but the game came down to a TMO call that could have gone either way, and if it had gone the boks' way then would you still feel so confident in backing Samoa?

A couple of notes:The Boks were not dominated in the forwards in the first half, in fact it was the other way around, the Aussie scrum went backwards, and they were not able to steal any bok ball at the breakdown...what the match did show, however, is that the bok replacements (props and loose forwards in particular) were quite far off the pace set by the first choice players. When the replacement props came on, the boks scrum deteriorated, and when Bismarck and Coetzee went off (and Pocock came on) then the balance shifted at the breakdown and the boks found themselves unable to get their hands on the ball (this compounded by their confounded strategy of kicking all possession to Falau!)

I was backing Samoa before this game, weeks ago in fact. I just see a tier 1 on the slide and a tier 3 with RWC provenance in their group who can match them where the metal meets the meat. Yes Samoa are rank outsiders, yes SA will step up on the day….i just have a feeling it will be a physical battle that
Samoa will win and when SA lose that side of the game they have lost their main weapon (aside from surprise and fear)
Mate, I can't see it. Samoa don't look very threatening to me.

I agree with Mr. Fishpaste the Boks scrum and breakdown were better than the Wallabies in the first half. When the replacements came on there was a reversal in fortune. On the other hand, the Samoa scrum didn't appear better than the American scrum, especially once the Americans got into the match. Last night Samoa's two best players, arguably of course, were a former Premiership wing and a current 3rd choice Premiership fullback.

I agree entirely. I will probably be very wrong….i just have a feeling in my water doc.

There you go. Sometime it is better to go with your gut. I don't see it happening, but if you are right I will be the first one in the queue buying you a virtual pint.

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