2nd Test, South Africa vs England; Cape Town 2nd-6th January

First topic message reminder :

South Africa (from):
H Amla (c), Q De Kock (wkt), AB De Villiers (wkt), K Abbott, T Bavuma, JP Duminy, F Du Plessis, D Elgar, M Morkel, C Morris, D Piedt, Rabada, R Rossouw, S Van Zyl, H Viljoen.

England (from):
A Cook (c), A Hales, N Compton, J Root, J Taylor, B Stokes, J Bairstow (wkt), M Ali, C Woakes, S Broad, S Finn, J Anderson, S Patel, C Jordan, M Footitt, J Butler, G Ballance.


Umpires: A Dar (Pak), B Oxenford (Aus)

Third umpire: R Tucker (Aus)

Match referee: R Madugalle (Sri Lanka)

Yes Mad for Chelsea questions have to be asked of the Saffers. However, if rumours are to be believed and Amla prefers his attacks to have only three seamers then he gets what he deserves as that is just wrong. Amla has erred numerously already in this test and he must be coming under big pressure in South Africa.

Chris Morris is currently eating lunch in the foetal position

CaledonianCraig wrote:Bairstow really is in an unfortunate position though. As a batsman alone is form of late merits a place in the side but because his wicket-keeping is continuously under scrutiny there will always be those calling for Buttler to return.

One thing I prefer about Bairstow behind the stumps is that he is much more vocal than Buttler which is always good to hear. Words of encouragement for the bowlers and in appeals.

Interesting point, Craig.

It was often suggested that Steve Davies was too quiet behind the stumps which contributed to him being jettisoned by England and then giving up keeping at Surrey.

Whilst I would always look to a keeper's glove work first of all and believe everyone should, I do get the impression that coaches are keen for a keeper to be heard. MfC, in particular, any views?

At Surrey now, there are 2 keepers in contention for the gloves - Gary Wilson (Ireland) and Ben Foakes (England Lions). When they were available at the same time last season, Wilson usually got the nod which didn't tend to go down that well with the Oval club's supporters. I can understand that to some extent as Foakes is a fine keeper, particularly nimble and athletic - he might challenge for a full England spot in time. However, to my mind, Wilson is underrated by the crowd as a keeper and it might just be his barking of encouragement and advice like an army sergeant that made the slight difference and won him his place.

I did say this was our Ashes 2010-11 a week ago. Its a really good deck and Its an inexperienced attack against a guy who is seeing it as big as a watermelon. Can't really do much except hope our batters treat this like the good deck it is when we bat

(they'll probably be rolled in both innings)

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Bairstow really is in an unfortunate position though. As a batsman alone is form of late merits a place in the side but because his wicket-keeping is continuously under scrutiny there will always be those calling for Buttler to return.

One thing I prefer about Bairstow behind the stumps is that he is much more vocal than Buttler which is always good to hear. Words of encouragement for the bowlers and in appeals.

Interesting point, Craig.

It was often suggested that Steve Davies was too quiet behind the stumps which contributed to him being jettisoned by England and then giving up keeping at Surrey.

Whilst I would always look to a keeper's glove work first of all and believe everyone should, I do get the impression that coaches are keen for a keeper to be heard. MfC, in particular, any views?

At Surrey now, there are 2 keepers in contention for the gloves - Gary Wilson (Ireland) and Ben Foakes (England Lions). When they were available at the same time last season, Wilson usually got the nod which didn't tend to go down that well with the Oval club's supporters. I can understand that to some extent as Foakes is a fine keeper, particularly nimble and athletic - he might challenge for a full England spot in time. However, to my mind, Wilson is underrated by the crowd as a keeper and it might just be his barking of encouragement and advice like an army sergeant that made the slight difference and won him his place.

I once got called a "gobby little pr#ck", and that was by a teammate If I repeat the worst thing an opponent has called me I'll probably get banned

It's an interesting point. There's a general feeling that the keeper is instrumental in setting the energy levels for the team, and part of that is being rather mouthy. I can't really speak about coaches at international level, but I certainly viewed it as part of my job to keep the team going, particularly when things weren't going so well. I don't think Buttler does it too badly, but yes, Bairstow is more vocal.

Keepers certainly need to be assertive. They're the ones who have the best view of what's happening wicket-to-wicket so need to be ready to tell the captain if a bowler's tiring, or conversely going well, so can bowl a few more, if the ball's stopped swinging, if a batsman is looking uncertain against a particular type of delivery, etc. They also quite often lead the appeals.

One of the reasons Michael Vaughan (and presumably, Fletcher) prefered Jones to Read is this assertiveness. Vaughan in his autobiography mentions an incident on a WI tour where England had started well, picked up 4 wickets before lunch only for WI to not lose any wickets in the afternoon. As they walk off for tea Vaughan asks Read if the ball is still swinging to which Read responds that it hadn't done anything all session. Vaughan says that this made him quite angry as he'd kept attacking fields throughout believing the ball to still be doing plenty, and he felt Read should have said something.

Mike always said he thought the main reason England ditched Davies and went back to Prior for the 2011 world cup was the feeling that Prior was very much the heartbeat of the side (as he showed in the Ashes series just before).

In summary, I'd say you do want an assertive personality as keeper, both for the energy levels, which are very important, and for the input.

To finish on a personal anecdote, I always recall fondly the day my club second team picked three keepers in the same side. We had Charlie keeping, I was at first slip, and Chris at second. Plenty of chatter that day, the skipper said he'd never heard such a mouthy Bordeaux slip cordon

Now I take no joy in this, but here's me expressing my concerns about England coming over here.... in 2013. NostRafdamus skills for days

https://www.606v2.com/t46535p900-the-ashes-second-test-lord-s

"CJ - thats a pity.I thnk will be at the end of our
cycle by then, tbh. Kallis and Smith will likely be
retired, Steyn will be 32, ABDV's back may also
lead to retirement... Could be a very different
team in 30 month
"

As predicted
Kallis = gone
Smith = gone
ABDV back = retirement whispers
Steyn's age = repeatedly getting injured now
Team = very different
cycle = definitely at its end

I have a feeling we'll be all out in double quick time here.

kingraf surely the worrying thing is the lack of options available. The commentators earlier were not overly enthused by other options out there at the moment. That has to be a concern.

MfC - many thanks for your keeper post. Informative and entertaining.

Bowling - I'm not too worried. Look the first session was pretty bad. But we've missed Steyn in 9/11 innings recently and only failed to take ten sticks twice counting today. It was a bad day but young sides have those. Rabada looks money. Abbott looks a disciplined bowler. Piedt seems good enough. I'm pretty satisfied that life after Steyn won't be as dark as I predicted

Batting - I have no hope. There is no future. Its over

Bairstow might be feeling a bit "tight" on 97 ... imagine this first Test century would mean a lot to him. Being ultra careful against van Zyl.

Don't think Stokes will be so against Elgar...

Yes the bowling has more promise than the batsmen coming through. Some new options being turned to with the bat in this test and they will really be tested.

A maiden test century for Bairstow. Emotional moment for him.

Hundred for Jonny

Big monkey off his back. Not sure I've ever seen more heartfelt relief and elation from a batsman before...very happy for him.

Reckon he will relax and start hitting out a bit now...

Yes, big monkey off Bairstow's back. Important for him and the team. Stokes will understandably get the main headlines but Bairstow has also played very well today.

Could be even more fun now for England supporters if both batsmen go into one day mode ....

It must be a case of 300 or out now before the declaration comes.

Just caught up with the score. A solid morning's work so far by England.

Not enough superlatives to do Stokes' innings justice. Truly amazing. A fine notice of his glorious talent. Bairstow brilliant at the other end, as well.

Just keep batting, England. South Africa are getting humiliated and it's awful good fun to watch.

Spare a thought for Moeen. If one of these chaps ever gets out he'll be expected to come out all guns blazing ... after sitting with his pads on for two sessions plus...

England 85 - 0 in the last 10 overs.

Bairstow's running between the wickets is top notch.

Think that Morkel 'catch' sums up SA state of mind at the moment. I'd keep going till tea at least, if one of these two is still there anyway, keep breaking them down.

Why declare. Its day 2. As long as they're seeing it like a beach ball, keep grinding SA into dust

Bit lazy from that Stokes. Should always run hard and expect him to drop it...

150 from 191 balls and nobody will remember it.

Aggressive declaration

To be fair, Bairstow has to keep for probably nigh on three days now. Don't want to completely knacker him out.

GSC wrote:Someone told me they'd pick Woakes over Stokes?

*tucks tail between legs*

I like this declaration. Sure , could have gone on to 800 this evening ...but I think they have enough.
If they can't dismiss SA reasonably quickly they will certainly want to bat a second time on this good pitch ; and then rest time will be more important than runs.
And more importantly , SA have just been battered all over the park for three hours and might be just a little vulnerable batting now : not as if they're in great form or confidence ...

This match now only has two possible results - a draw or an England win. Pressure on Saffers batsmen to perform and it could make or break their careers.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:150 from 191 balls and nobody will remember it.

Think Jonny will

Outstand by Stokes and Bairstow. Relentless in different manners from both.

Good declaration by Cook and co there too. Botham rarely says anything work listening to but with the obvious there to be stated he hit the nail on the head. The bowlers will pumped and raring to go. Have a real crack at them before tea then go again straight after the break.

The only (very slight) concern I would voice is that coming off the back of 2 sessions out batting this will be possibly the biggest test of Bairstow with the gloves yet. He will need to accept the plaudits dust himself down and get straight back out back with a very different job and mindset. Hopefully he carries the confidence from that knock into his other role.

Olly wrote:

GSC wrote:Someone told me they'd pick Woakes over Stokes?

*tucks tail between legs*

In fairness Stokes doesn't always come off. But he has that Flintoff like quality of being capable of pulling something special.

SA in disarray. Looked simple enough execution, but that was a good throw by Compton - right over the top, JB barely has to move his gloves to take the bails off.

Talk about a rattled team ! Daft run out in the third over chasing 629

Totally braindead running. A gift for England.

Oh dear

It's amazing how often scoreboard pressure in test cricket forces sides to put the boot even further in themselves.

oops...

poor from Elgar I think, looked like a comfortable single there...

We've had sheer brilliance, great comedy, this is fast becoming one of the GOAT days of cricket ever

Sort of thing that happens to players who have been cooked for a day and a half in the field watching balls sail over the stands.

Going to take a massive effort from someone to stop this turning into a rout. Amla has the concentration but I wonder where his head is right now...

Moeen thought he had one then...but the review - and the edge - saves Elgar.

Four hours , 340 runs... just two wickets ; both run outs. Might be a bit of work for England's bowlers on this.

But you feel if one of these plus AB can be nipped out the rest might just fall in a heap.

Survival is the name of the game just now for South Africa. They are like a punch drunk boxer taking punishment and waiting for the respite of the bell (or tea as is the case here).

South Africa get to tea on 24 for 1. Time to regroup and compose themselves.

Just saw an ad for a mini cricket game between South Africa and a school from the Western Cape and one of the kids was asked whether he's worried about facing Dale Steyn and his exact words were "Dale Steyn? he's getting old. He can't change his oldness" Pretty accurate young man. Pretty accurate

On to the game. Looks a belter. If we can't bat the whole of day three on this road (at which point barring a collapse I suspect we're gonna have a boring draw) then we don't deserve to win this series, or be #1.

One of the older guys might be able to help out here but when was the last time an England keeper reached 150; Jones, Prior, Russell and Stewart never did.

kingraf wrote:

On to the game. Looks a belter. If we can't bat the whole of day three on this road (at which point barring a collapse I suspect we're gonna have a boring draw) then we don't deserve to win this series, or be #1.

Regardless of the result in this test I'd say I've already seen enough to say you don't deserve to be No.1. Sorry if that sounds cruel but I expect so much more from a No.1 in any sport than I have seen in this series so far.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:One of the older guys might be able to help out here but when was the last time an England keeper reached 150; Jones, Prior, Russell and Stewart never did.

Stewart has a highest of 173 as designated keeper.

Bairstow is only the second to pass 150 for England as a keeper though! Good spot Hammer. I wouldn't have thought that.

Les Ames deserves honourable mention there for 149 though.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=runs;team=1;template=results;type=batting

James Taylor is one of those rare guys who looks so comfortable at short leg. It is often forgotten but adds a lot to a side when you have a really good close fielder to put under a helmet. Crouched right under the batsmans nose it adds a lot of pressure to guys when they are already under pressure.

To be fair CC it doesn't help that the two guys most responsible for getting us to #1 are out injured. Our batting has always been dodgy. Steyn and Philander have just generally made below par scores look unattainable.

kingraf wrote:To be fair CC it doesn't help that the two guys most responsible for getting  us to #1 are out injured. Our batting has always been dodgy. Steyn and Philander have just generally made below par scores look unattainable.

I accept that but in my eyes for a team to be regarded best in the world then they have to be strong throughout the team. Sure you are missing key bowlers but the batting has been far below what I expect of a team ranked No.1 in the world.