Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XI - The Undiscovered Country

[IanBru]

First topic message reminder :

A Brief History of Time-Wasting


https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo
https://www.606v2.com/t57946-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vii
https://www.606v2.com/t58659-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-viii
https://www.606v2.com/t59409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ix
https://www.606v2.com/t60764-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-x-rated

Edinburgh

1872 Champions

Glasgow

1872 Runners-up

Ladies and Gentlemen, it's THE RUN IN!

[RDW]

Wow that would be a surprise! I'm assuming their trying to fill the void left by O'Connoll's deal falling through?

Where did you here that?

Toulon do a fair bit of rotation to be fair so he would get some gametime, but I doubt he'd be anywhere near a regular starter.

He is only 25 still so hopefully he can put his injury record behind him.

He hasn't played for Edinburgh in 15 months!

[BigGee]

Whilst I'd like him to stay, he offers very poor value for money at Edinburgh and Bresler, MacKenzie and Toolisx2 are all perfectly capable. Gilchrist/Bresler would be my preferred combination but if he's offered big money and the chance to play for Toulon then I wouldn't begrudge him that. I just hope they've got a decent medical department!

Yes that is true, if they can tie down FM and the other Toolis (who is also rumoured away) then that is 4 decent locks and there are some decent kids in the pipeline if they are shared out properly. Maybe the best move for all concerned.

[VinceWLB]

Watching Gilchrist alongside Gorgodze would be like watching a remake of Unbreakable

Last i heard McKenzie and A Toolis contracts aren't even solved yet so Edinburgh needs to fix that asap if Gilchrist is gone.

[RDW]

McKenzie has been a strange one injury wise - there's been no update on how long he's out for and it seemed an innocuous one at the time.

He's been out for months!

[VinceWLB]

Was listed out with a neck injury, we all know how long that kept Manu out. You have to be very precautionary with these injuries, there are players retiring from rugby every season because of them.

[EWT Spoons]

Gilchist will be joining Toloun this summer, as per the post earlier.

Length of contract etc has not been confirmed but here you go:

Toulon have moved to replace Paul O’Connell

Although Toulon have assembled some of the game’s best players in the south of France, injury has robbed them of the services of Paul O’Connell.

As a result, they have have been forced into further activity on the transfer market in order to fill the void left by the former Irish captain.

While it was no secret that Toulon were searching for a second row after Paul O’Connell was forced to retire through injury, fans will be shocked to read that the French super club have turned to Scotland’s Grant Gilchrist.

Although La Provence reported earlier today that the Edinburgh lock will sign for Toulon this summer, they were short on the specifics of Gilchrist’s contract.

Nevertheless, given Toulon’s policy of signing global superstars, the signing of Gilchrist does represent a surprise.

As an aside, many of you will also be shocked to learn that Toulon could field an all Scottish second row pairing next season, with Gilchrist potentially joining former under 20 international Andy Cramond in the engine room

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Wow, good luck to him. We really do need to keep Alex Toolis now though

[EWT Spoons]

He's off to the rebels apparently

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Wasn't Tom Brown supposedly off to Gloucester though?

If I remember right the rumour was that Alex was concerned about the number of locks in front of him, hopefully Gilchrist leaving will address that enough for him to sign a new contract

[EWT Spoons]

I believe he'd already agreed the deal to leave. I mentioned a while back that he was probably leaving and I think he's signed a contract with them, it's just not announced yet

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Ah, thats not good. Leaves us swinging from too many locks (albeit with injury issues) to not enough lock cover. Any youngsters coming through the ranks there?

[jimbopip]

Gentlemen, and Hazel, may I just point out that Glasgow Warriors have endured a terrible first half of the season. Utterly dire.

As evidenced by the fact that we are THREE points behind the Kaffe Fassett fan club with TWO games in hand.

[RDW]

The Dragons have signed Sam Beard from Edinburgh, which is a shame. He's been a good solid player for Edinburgh and has slotted in seamlessly without a noticeable drop in quality. And as always, we'll have to wait and see who replaces him! We would probably do with a couple of centres looking at who we will have left

Burleigh
Allan
Dean
Helu (what has happened to him recently btw? He hasn't played in a while)
Strauss (?)

[funnyExiledScot]

Gentlemen, and Hazel,  may I just point out that Glasgow Warriors have endured a terrible first half of the season. Utterly dire.

As evidenced by the fact that we are THREE points behind the Kaffe Fassett fan club with TWO games in hand.

Flattering that you continue to use the 1872 Champions as your benchmark.....

[funnyExiledScot]

The Dragons have signed Sam Beard from Edinburgh, which is a shame.  He's been a good solid player for Edinburgh and has slotted in seamlessly without a noticeable drop in quality. And as always, we'll have to wait and see who replaces him! We would probably do with a couple of centres looking at who we will have left

Burleigh
Allan
Dean
Helu (what has happened to him recently btw? He hasn't played in a while)
Strauss (?)

This is a real shame. His performances at 12 over the last couple of games have been really strong. Obviously Scott and Burleigh are good options in that position so it's not a big issue, but Scott hardly has a great track record of being available.

So for next season it's looking like the following in terms of 1st and 2nd choices:

9. SH-C, Fowles
10. Weir, Kinghorn
11. Helu, Brown
12. Scott, Burleigh
13. Allan, Dean
14. Hoyland, Fife
15. Tonks, Cuthbert

You could switch Tonks and Kinghorn, although it's looking to me like the Tonks at 10 experiment is over.

[RDW]

Matt Scott is off remember...

We're now short in the centre.

[funnyExiledScot]

Jeez, I'd completely forgotten about Scott leaving.

Yep, we're certainly short at 12 in which case, and probably 10 as well if we assume Kinghorn will continue at 15.

I'm comfortable with Burleigh as first choice at 12, but we'll need some cover and Strauss is a long way short of the quality needed.

Beard is by a distance better than Strauss. Odd to let him go as I thought he was shortly to become SQ (he's only 25). Perhaps not a threat to Dunbar/Scott/Taylor, but two of those guys are frequent guests at the Rory Lamont Fragility Centre and Beard provides genuine cover at 12 and 13. I think he's been overlooked too often by Solomons this season. Each and every appearance by Strauss is one in which Beard should have featured. In fact the Beard/Allan combination has worked better than anything else for a couple of seasons.

Really solid signing by the Dragons. Not looking forward to facing him next season.

[RDW]

Yeah I think he's becomes SQ later in the summer, although he probably thought himself it was a long shot.

Maybe he wasn't even offered a deal - you never know what goes on with these contract negotiations.

[RDW]

In other news, I hear Weir put in a good shift on Friday and even showed an unexpected turn of pace to score - does that give us more confidence that he'll do a decent job for Edinburgh??

If anything his goal kicking is light years better than anything Tonks and Fowles can manage, plus he'll become the only player in the Edinburgh squad that can actually kick a drop goal.

[funnyExiledScot]

In other news, I hear Weir put in a good shift on Friday and even showed an unexpected turn of pace to score - does that give us more confidence that he'll do a decent job for Edinburgh??

If anything his goal kicking is light years better than anything Tonks and Fowles can manage, plus he'll become the only player in the Edinburgh squad that can actually kick a drop goal.

Weir had a bit of a stormer against Munster actually. Not just the try (Munster were as shocked as I was) but his passing was really excellent as well.

You need to get hold of footage for the try. He took a wrap around from Horne (who also played really well and is possibly another reason why Beard won't get a shot for Scotland) and then turned on the gas to go between the Munster defenders (both backs from recollection). Just made it to the line with the Munster fullback/winger clinging on. He got kicked in the face for his troubles and nearly did a Ryan Wilson after he scored (i.e. fake tough stuff) but chose to enjoy the moment instead, and why not. He's surprisingly quick over short distances for a fat kid, and Munster were just not expecting it. I don't think Russell would have scored that try, because the defence would have been all over him. A victory for low expectations!!

[RDW]

Excellent - I'll look for highlights.

Rotund kids can be surprisingly fast - look at Wayne Rooney!

[funnyExiledScot]

Excellent - I'll look for highlights.

Rotund kids can be surprisingly fast - look at Wayne Rooney!

Rupeni Caucaunibuca springs to mind as well, not that Diet Dan is quite in his league!

[RDW]

I bet you goggled the spelling of his name!

[funnyExiledScot]

I bet you goggled the spelling of his name!

I didn't, but I did use Google.....

[RDW]

Face.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Very surprised Beard has been allowed to leave, although I suppose it may have been his decision. I wouldn't have been too happy being frequently overlooked for Strauss either. Either way, not a good situation and we're losing some very good squad options at the end of the season so the standards of recruitment are going to need to be high.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Am I the only one that is staggered beyond belief that a club like Toulon would be interested in a guy like Gilchrist?

I've always been one of his biggest fans but had I suggested that after barely playing any rugby for a year and Toulon would sign him on as a replacement for POC I would have rightly been laughed at.

[funnyExiledScot]

Am I the only one that is staggered beyond belief that a club like Toulon would be interested in a guy like Gilchrist?

I've always been one of his biggest fans but had I suggested that after barely playing any rugby for a year and Toulon would sign him on as a replacement for POC I would have rightly been laughed at.

By their standards he'll be unbelievably cheap. For them he's the equivalent of a Supermarket impulse purchase, like buying a stick of gum at the checkout with two full trolleys-worth of shopping behind you.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Am I the only one that is staggered beyond belief that a club like Toulon would be interested in a guy like Gilchrist?

I've always been one of his biggest fans but had I suggested that after barely playing any rugby for a year and Toulon would sign him on as a replacement for POC I would have rightly been laughed at.

By their standards he'll be unbelievably cheap. For them he's the equivalent of a Supermarket impulse purchase, like buying a stick of gum at the checkout with two full trolleys-worth of shopping behind you.

Perhaps, but despite being an "impulse" purchase they must see something in him. As did Vern when he emerged as his first choice for Scotland captain.

He's certainly in a privileged position to learn at Toulon.

[Hazel Sapling]

Edinburgh are looking short at lock if A Toolis is heading back to Aus. Would Cramond come the other way to get some playing time on loan?

Edinburgh are losing some good players. Nel needs to be signed ASAP before the French notice.

[Guest]

Greetings Scottish people,

Dragons have signed Edinburgh centre Sam Beard apparently. Is he any good? Is this signing a coup, or is he someone struggling to get in the Edinburgh team? Or both?!

Thanks in advance,

Griff

[Guest]

Sorry, just seen RDW's comments further above.

[RDW]

I'd say he's in between the two extremes you mention Griff - not a superstar in the making but certainly not a dud. Most Edinburgh fans can't fathom why he has not had more gametime over someone like Stauss, who is a dud!

He is a good solid centre who, at 25, has plenty years ahead of him.

I won't look forward to Edinburgh facing him in the Dragons team.

[Guest]

I'd say he's in between the two extremes you mention Griff - not a superstar in the making but certainly not a dud. Most Edinburgh fans can't fathom why he has not had more gametime over someone like Stauss, who is a dud!

He is a good solid centre who, at 25, has plenty years ahead of him.

I won't look forward to Edinburgh facing him in the Dragons team.

Thanks RDW. That last bit is a good enough endorsement for me!

[RDW]

Edinburgh are looking short at lock if A Toolis is heading back to Aus. Would Cramond come the other way to get some playing time on loan?

Edinburgh are losing some good players. Nel needs to be signed ASAP before the French notice.
 

He's still a bit of an unknown as he's spent all his time in the academy, with one official senior appearance off the bench (he's played in friendlies and charity games as well).

The fact that he regularly holds down a place in an academy team that regularly wins is a promising sign though.

[Hazel Sapling]

Edinburgh are looking short at lock if A Toolis is heading back to Aus. Would Cramond come the other way to get some playing time on loan?

Edinburgh are losing some good players. Nel needs to be signed ASAP before the French notice.
 

He's still a bit of an unknown as he's spent all his time in the academy, with one official senior appearance off the bench (he's played in friendlies and charity games as well).

The fact that he regularly holds down a place in an academy team that regularly wins is a promising sign though.

True. Needs to start playing at a higher level more frequently though to see if he is going to make it.

Lock depth of Twolis, Bresler, McKenzie and one of Glasgow's 4 Academy stage 3 locks (according to wiki Glasgow have quite a few academy prospects compared to Edinburgh) should be enough. If A Toolis or McKenzie disappears, then there is space for someone else. Solomons will probably ask Jim Hamilton to put off retiring for one more run around...

[MacKnocked-on]

Letting Alex Toolis leave after he's just broken through would be a bit daft really, we would be back to square one with developing another young player. Cramond might well be a good signing but would he be any more ready for the Pro12 than Alex Toolis is?
Starting to look very much as if Maitland's move to LI was a mistake (apart from his bank balance presumably), I wonder what options he may have if LI get relegated? Would the SRU look to bring him back up to Scotland or would he manage to find another top level team to sign for? Blair Cowan as well, although perhaps not such an issue for the SRU as we have more strength in depth in the back row than the back three.

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd be delighted for Edinburgh to snap up both Cowan and Maitland. We have a vacancy at fullback for a top quality player, and with Coman leaving we could easily have Cowan on the blindside with Hardie at 7.

I've been really impressed with Alex Toolis this season. I'd hang onto him personally.

[RDW]

You can sort of understand Toolis' thinking though - with all the locks fit he'd at best be 4th choice and maybe even 5th choice.

He will know that it is only due to a high injury list that he got so much gametime this year, and that is unlikely to happen every year.

I hope he does stay though, particularly with Gilchrist leaving.

[RDW]

I would also happily sign Maitland and Cowan!

Maitland would have to get some try scoring tips from WP Nel though

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd have Alex Toolis down as 3rd choice next season, behind Bresler and Ben Toolis. Still, even that might not be enough to convince him to stay. He's good enough to be a Pro12 regular.

[VinceWLB]

Greetings Scottish people,

Dragons have signed Edinburgh centre Sam Beard apparently.  Is he any good?  Is this signing a coup, or is he someone struggling to get in the Edinburgh team?  Or both?!

Thanks in advance,

Griff

Griff, that's a very good signing for the Dragons, not quite a coup but a very solid signing, a similar signing than when you signed Stankovich i would say. Beard has a very nice sidestep and i have never seen him have a bad game, can't remember him missing tackles either.

Beard has been badly underused, as were Atkins and Leonardi in the past. One of these Solomons odd choice (with Andress too) that has been holding Edinburgh back. If it wasn't for injuries, the Toolis bros probably wouldn't be where they are now. I read a few weeks back A Toolis was going back to Australia because he was seen too much down the pecking order. With the rumour of Gilchrist going to Toulon, i would sign Alex straightaway and before McKenzie who is showing injury concerns.

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd echo that. Sam Beard is one of these classic NZ centres who just makes good decisions and has a very rounded skillset. He's strong without being a brute, good hands without being dazzling and quick without being electric. He has never let Edinburgh down and has the handy ability of being able to play both 12 and 13.

With Scott leaving I'd have re-signed Beard for another couple of years. At 25 he has plenty rugby ahead of him and would have been a nice option for Scotland. He's a much better player than Strauss at 12, and Helu at 13 (which to be honest has only been tried once). I also think he's a better player than Chris Dean (so far).

[EWT Spoons]

Apparently Gilchrist has fractured his forearm so is back in surgery. That lad is not lucky when it comes to injuries

[funnyExiledScot]

Just saw the Gilchrist news. Really feel for the guy. Horrible luck.

[George Carlin]

We don't think that the SRU has a recruitment 'strategy' do we?

Naka, Gilcho, Matt Scott, etc all leaving and nobody is currently slated to replace them.

Can I stab wildly in the dark and suggest that's where we are? Anyone know any different?

[funnyExiledScot]

I've heard nothing to suggest that we have ready replacements for these big names. On the contrary we appear to be shedding useful squad players as well.

Funnily enough no-one seems to want to take Andries Strauss off our hands though.

[RDW]

It is certainly sad to see a generation of 'home' bred Edinburgh boys moving on all at the same time just as they are in their primes - Gilchrist, Denton, Scott

I suspect there will be a real core of players at Edinburgh needing replaced this summer, which means Top 6 is even more pressing this year - i'd be surprised if we could manage it next year given the mass squad turnaround.

[funnyExiledScot]

It places a big onus on the younger generation coming through quickly. For all the jokes about Mike Coman being a little bit average, he plays a lot of games each season and we will need someone like Ritchie to step up fast. In fact he's the only specialist blindside currently slated for the squad next season (we're fine at 7 with Hardie and Watson and at 8 with Du Preez, Manu and Bradbury).

Same with someone like Chris Dean. With Scott and Beard gone, and Strauss surely given his P45, there's a big gap at centre. Burleigh will presumably move to 12 from 10, to allow Diet Dan time to prove he isn't up to it, and Allan will I presume continue as first choice 13, but behind those two there's really nothing. Helu can play 13 at a push, but we're starting to look really light at centre. Get your boots back on Ben Atiga....

[MacKnocked-on]

Did Ben Atiga not take on that job the SRU advertised helping Southern Hemisphere players move to Scotland, sure I read that somewhere? As there haven't been any imports since that job was created I suspect that perhaps one or two may be coming over to fill the gaps. As for centres, perhaps Robbie Ferguson may move up from London Scottish or even Junior's brother Andrew Bulumakau from Doncaster, both seem to be doing well in the Championship.

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