Surrey CCC 2016 summer discussion thread

[king_carlos]

First topic message reminder :

Club captain: Gareth Batty

First team squad for 2016 summer

Batsmen: Rory Burns, Arun Harinath, Dominic Sibley, Kumar Sangakarra (overseas), Aaron Finch (cover for Sangakarra during CPL)

Wicket-keepers: Ben Foakes, Gary Wilson, Steve Davies

All-rounders: Zafar Ansari, James Burke, Aneesh Kapil, Azhar Mahmood (British passport - T20 only), Dwayne Bravo (T20 only), Chris Morris (cover for Dwayne Bravo during CPl - T20 only)

Seamers: Tom Curran, Sam Curran, Jade Dernbach, Matt Dunn, Mark Footitt, Stuart Meaker, Connor McKerr (UK passport), Matthew Philans (UK Passport), Ravi Rampaul (Kolpak)

Spinners: Gareth Batty, Freddie van den Bergh

CC division 1 fixtures

Sunday April 10 - Nottinghamshire - Trent Bridge
Sunday April 24 - Somerset - The Oval
Sunday May 1 - Durham - The Oval
Sunday May 8 - Yorkshire - Headingley
Sunday May 15 - Middlesex - The Oval
Sunday May 22 - Lancashire - Old Trafford
Saturday May 28 - Somerset - The County Ground, Taunton
Sunday June 19 - Nottinghamshire - The Oval
Saturday July 2 - Warwickshire - Guildford CC
Monday July 11 - Yorkshire - The Oval
Sunday July 17 - Hampshire - The Ageas Bowl
Thursday August 4 - Middlesex - Lord's Cricket Ground
Saturday August 13 - Warwickshire - Edgbaston
Tuesday August 23 - Lancashire - The Oval
Tuesday September 6 - Hampshire - The Oval
Monday September 12 - Durham - Riverside Ground, Chester-le-Street

T20 Blast fixtures

Friday May 20 - Essex - Chelmsford
Thursday May 26 - Glamorgan - The Oval
Friday June 3 - Sussex - The County Cricket Ground, Hove
Thursday June 9 - Hampshire - The Oval
Friday June 10 - Somerset - The County Ground, Taunton
Friday June 17 - Middlesex - The Oval
Friday June 24 - Glamorgan - Sophia Gardens
Saturday June 25 - Essex - The Oval
Wednesday July 6 - Gloucestershire - Nevil Road
Friday July 8 - Somerset - The Oval
Friday July 15 - Kent - The Nevill Ground
Thursday July 21 - Middlesex - Lord's Cricket Ground
Friday July 22 - Sussex - The Oval
Friday July 29 - Kent - The Oval

Royal London One Day Cup Fixtures

Sunday June 5 - Kent - Beckenham, Worsley Bridge Road
Wednesday June 8 - Somerset - The Oval
Tuesday June 14 - Sussex - Guildford CC
Wednesday June 15 - Hampshire - The Ageas Bowl
Sunday July 24 - Essex - Chelmsford
Wednesday July 27 - Gloucestershire - The Oval
Monday August 1 - Glamorgan - The Oval
Tuesday August 2 - Middlesex - Lord's Cricket Ground

Departures from 2015: Tim Linley (RET), Vikram Solanki (RET - now 2nd XI captain), Kevin Pietersen (has announced he won't be playing county cricket in 2016), David Balcombe (RET)

Arrivals for 2016: Mark Footitt (Derbyshire), Conor McKerr (UK passport), Mathew Philans (UK passport), Ravi Rampaul (KPK), Aaron Finch (cover for Sangakarra during CPL), Dwayne Bravo (T20 only), Chris Morris (cover for Bravo during CPL - T20 only)

The other big news to report is of course the departure of former head coach Graham Ford to return to the Sri Lanka set-up as head coach with Michael Di Venuto, the long time Durham batsmen and more recently Australia batting coach, coming in as his replacement.

Director of Cricket: Alec Stewart
Head coach: Michael Di Venuto

[SimonofSurrey]

A left field thought: if we really are struggling for batsmen (don't even mention the depleted bowling attack), would we able contractually to draft in VS, eg at 5, for a one off appearance? His experience and - still! - ability could be a boon to a struggling team.

[guildfordbat]

Hi Simon - it had crossed my mind that you might be pushing for Vik's inclusion. As well as wanting his experience, I guess him playing for the firsts would trigger another commission payment from your consultancy contract!

I don't actually know the answer to your question but I'm sure there are ways and means of allowing him to play if really wanted. However, I suspect he would be considered too rusty. He hasn't batted for the seconds this season with his playing role effectively being as a coach and guide.

[guildfordbat]

Come on, JimBob - get a move on with the thread for the Middlesex t20! For once, I'm confident about the players to miss out. Not necessarily right but confident!

[jimbobgooner]

Come on, JimBob - get a move on with the thread for the Middlesex t20! For once, I'm confident about the players to miss out. Not necessarily right but confident!

typing at the same time

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Not sure if people know this or it has been noted elsewhere - We lose Ravioli to the CPL with Sanga

[guildfordbat]

Olly - didn't know that about Ravioli. Bad news although I appreciate the update, cheers.

[jimbobgooner]

looking at baby face,finch and sibley coming in for wilson,kumar and ravioli for the game at guildford.

[jimbobgooner]

meanwhile in the 2nd XI game against essex gary wilson has got a king pair

[guildfordbat]

meanwhile in the 2nd XI game against essex gary wilson has got a king pair

Yep, nothing going Gary Wilson's way atm. If it was raining soup in Belfast High Street, he would be the guy there holding a knife and fork.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

BBC report that Surrey are making an approach to Borthwick and Stoneman.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

BBC report that Surrey are making an approach to Borthwick and Stoneman.

Excellent news - this season has showcased two things badly. How poor the balance of the side is without Ansari (Borthwick fixes that) - and how poor the batting depth is (Stoneman helps fix that)

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Some good news - Stuart Meaker has signed a new two year deal with the club

A remarkable turnaround this season - one of Ford's glaring failures whilst at the club appears to be one of Di Venuto's glaring successes

[guildfordbat]

Just seen the interview with Chris Morris on the club website. There was the odd reference to 4 day cricket. Hmm - don't think Churchy would have come up with that line of questioning by himself. Makes me wonder ....

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The Currans have been called upto the England lions squad for the tri series against Sri Lanka and Pakistan A

[jimbohammers]

This may be of interest to some of you.. 2nd XI game yesterday vs Hampshire:

Scorecard here

https://www.crichq.com/#matches/405841/1st_innings

[guildfordbat]

Seems like a thoroughly sensible and disciplined performance by Hants at the [insert this month's name] Bowl against Surrey in the 3 day seconds Championship match. Hants are 305/5 off 101 overs with rain stopped play. Surrey's stand out bowler is Amar Virdi with impressive figures of 16-11-16-2. The teenager is starting to make a name for himself. The other six Surrey bowlers (Dernbach, Dunn, Pillans, McKerr, Footitt and Burger Van) have each gone for between 30 and 60.

Surrey's first innings ended embarrassingly yesterday on 199 when the 9th wicket fell as soon as the 40th over. Having been left out of the first team, Harinath and Footitt were still making their way from the Oval to play in this match. One of whom would have been eligible to bat, almost certainly Harinath - it's 12 a side in seconds games but only 11 can bat. That's assuming the others bat long enough for the rest to arrive!

[jimbohammers]

Mr 'Virdi' having another good game. Just had a look at our second team score and notice he took 5-37 in 21 overs. Could be one for your first team in the coming weeks

(Link: https://www.crichq.com/#matches/407448/2nd_innings)

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Prompted by Guildford's recent comment that, for Surrey, Dernbach had more pluses than minuses I reminded myself of his record.

Sadly, Dernbach still holds the record for the worst career economy rates in both International T20 and One Day Internationals. Figures are 8.71 and  6.35 The qualification for inclusion in the Cricinfo list is bowling a minimum of 500 balls in T20 and 1000 balls for ODIs - so a player does have to have played a fair bit to get included.  (Stokes' economy rate is 9.22 after 244 balls of international T20 - so he is a possible candidate for heading the list in future.)

On the plus side, Dernbach is the 3rd highest England wicket taker in T20 (behind only Broad and Swann). Only 4 England bowlers have bowled 100+ T20 overs. The 4th in addition to the three just named is Bresnan. There's an interesting comparison here in that Dernbach bowled 117 overs for his 39 wickets, whereas in his 110.3 overs Bresnan has taken just 24 wickets, at an economy rate of 8.02. So there's a fair case for saying that Dernbach was a more effective T20 bowler than Bresnan. 

For Surrey, Dernbach is 2nd on the list of the county's wicket takers in T20. (The first three are Azhar Mahmood, Dernbach and Batty, with 81, 74, 57 wickets respectively). I'd have thought that there was a fair chance that Dernbach will top the list by the end of next season.

A bowler who regularly comes on "at the death" is always likely to have an economy rate at the upper end. But I think it is fair to say that in limited overs forms of cricket Dernbach has done well to put the considerable disappointments of his international career (including the huge amount of criticism and abuse dished out) behind him.

[guildfordbat]

As posted by Jetty on the County Transfers thread, former Surrey speedster George Edwards released by Lancs. Edwards has always had considerable sheer pace but his ability has rarely been properly utilised. In his two years at Lancs since being released by Surrey, he only played t20s at first team level. At 24 last week, it won't be easy for him to find another county.

Meanwhile, former Surrey batsman Laurie Evans reported to be unhappy with lack of first team opportunities at Warks (the return to the domestic side of Bell and Trott plus the emergence of Hoggy's pin-up Hain) and looking for a move.

With Adams gone, Evans would probably be happy with a return to Surrey where he started as a junior. However, I suspect that Stewart would only regard him as a potential squad player and wouldn't be prepared to make a suitable offer on that basis. No chance of Edwards returning to the Oval payroll.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Guildford - I think you are right in your assessment.  I was just looking at the Cricinfo profile of Evans. I had forgotten, but it comes back. Seasoned Surrey observers on this board (including both you and me as I recall) were astounded that despite scoring a deluge of runs for the 2nd XI in one season Evans was simply not given an opportunity in the first team. I think Evans would stand a fair prospect of getting a berth with another county, probably in the second division.

"Evans made a century for Durham MCCU in just his second first-class match - against Lancashire - and dropped out of university after a year to take his chances with Surrey. The move backfired, though, when he fell out of favour with the then director of cricket, Chris Adams, and despite prolific run-scoring in the 2nd XI - he scored seven second team centuries in 2010 alone - he was released by the club in July and joined Warwickshire on trial. After scoring another century in his second 2nd XI match, he forced his way into the first team before the end of the season and was quickly offered a one-year deal."

[guildfordbat]

Dernbach has signed a new two year contract. Church mentioned this during the Middlesex game. Nothing on the Club website but apparently confirmed on twitter - come on Olly and JimBob, that's your area!

Meanwhile, talk of Davies going to Somerset.

I'm happy enough with both of the above. Good research above by the Corporal on Dernbach's record. In some ways, Davies would definitely be a loss but that bullet is overdue being bitten.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I don't get why people are so happy to see Davies leave when we have such little batting depth already - I'd much rather see Wilson (who is not up to standard) leave than Davies.

Think it would be a bad blow to our batting if he did leave.

[jimbobgooner]

Does davies still believe he will get back in the england team if he resumes wicketkeeping?

[guildfordbat]

If Davies went nowish, the timing would be poor (re batting depth) but that would just be typical of someone who comes across to me as too flakey. I want committed players giving everything for the team at all times. As I said above, this bullet should already have been bitten.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

In more upbeat news Amir Virdi has signed a three year professional deal with the club

The heir apparent to Batty...

[guildfordbat]

Wow! Hadn't seen that - thanks, Olly.

A three year deal for an eighteen year old is serious business.

I thought it was noticeable that Virdi was named in a RL 50 squad a few weeks back when there was doubt about Batty's availability.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

He's very highly rated isn't he Guildford? Been taking wickets for fun in the 2nd XI

If we're safe by the final round of CC matches, it wouldn't be the worst idea to give him a game and a taste of the first class game...

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Does davies still believe he will get back in the england team if he resumes wicketkeeping?

He was certainly talking about it earlier in the season.  But, as I've said before, I simply don't think it is going to happen.  I would be very happy to see Davies stay at Surrey - he's made numerous contributions and despite the occasional significant length troughs in form his batting average has I think stayed around 40 for a considerable period. But I feel certain that he wouldn't be regarded as mentally robust enough for the pressures of test cricket - particularly when there are likely to be other options around, including Bairstow, Buttler and Foakes.

[guildfordbat]

He's very highly rated isn't he Guildford? Been taking wickets for fun in the 2nd XI

If we're safe by the final round of CC matches, it wouldn't be the worst idea to give him a game and a taste of the first class game...

Hi Olly, yes, Virdi's taken a load of wickets for the seconds. He also got a fivefer for England Under 19s in a 4 dayer against Sri Lanka U 19s the other week.

I've seen him just the once, inevitably at the Guildford ground in a seconds game. The track didn't seem to be offering him much assistance but he kept it neat and tidy, giving little away. Slightly stockyish and with a beard, he looked older than his teenage years.

No problem with chucking him in for a CC debut if we're safe by the final round of matches. Like your optimism in even considering that possibility!

Meanwhile, Spills has confirmed in today's Surrey Ad that Sanga will play in the CC match away to Warks starting tomorrow. No mention of Rampaul - I doubt that he will feature even if he is back.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Seeing as Guildford is on his hols (letting the team down ), here is an update from the members forum which took place today

http://ovalworld.freeforums.net/thread/510/membership-fees-2017?page=2#post-6800

Interesting snippets are

Davies has been offered a new two year contract
The club are negotiating with both Sangakkara and Finch to return in 2017
Negotiation with Scott Borthwick continue
Ansari is seeing a back specialist - if he overcomes his injury expect to see him tour with England this winter
Matt Dunn has back and hamstring injuries and is done for the summer

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Thanks, Olly.

Must say I would be very surprised if Davies signed up for the two more years on offer by Surrey, given how set he seems on resuming wicket keeping. I would imagine there would be several counties who would be happy to take him on.

Lol at the discussion about why Surrey always lose at Guildford....

[guildfordbat]

As a member of Surrey Supporters Club, I've been asked to vote on the following categories by early next week:
1. Surrey Young Player of the Season
2. Surrey Most Improved Player of the Season
3. Surrey Player of the Season
4. Surrey Moment of the Season.

Meanings of such words as 'Young' and 'Moment' are left to each voter's discretion.

Anyway, finding it particularly tricky this year. Grateful for your views.

[James100]

Some tough ones there Guildford

1. As you say, 'young' is tricky to define but I reckon it's got to be Sam Curran—depending on what you class as young, it could be just him and Sibley eligible. Helps as well that Sam's had a really good season.

2. I'd go with Meaker. He's been this good before (2012 I think) but not for a few seasons, plus this is the first time he's really held down a white-ball place.

3. Lots of options, Burns, Sanga, Foakes, Meaker all in with a shout. I'd go with Batty for his consistently good bowling and the way he led us back from a dreadful start to the season.

4. Hard to remember all the way back through the season and I'm sure I'm missing something but I'd go for Sanga's scoop in the last over of the 1/4 final. An important game that it looked like we were going to lose until then.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Young player surely has to be Sam Curran? No contest

Most improved player? For me it would be Ben Foakes - his glove work has always been very good, but his batting seems to have gone up a level this year

Player of the season? Sanga - again not close for me

Moment of the season? Roy/Finch's ridiculous opening partnership in that t20 (at the oval can't remember who against), Sanga's performance against Northants in the QF - but for me, the moment of the season is coming this weekend....

[Corporalhumblebucket]

1. Agree consensus that it's Sam Curran. (Sibley's has actually had quite a reasonable season. but doesn't seriously challenge Sam Curran.

2. Not clear cut, but I think Foakes is a good suggestion.  Meaker would be a possibility, as would Sibley.

3. Sanga, Batty or Foakes seem the main candidates (with Burns as longshot).

4. Sanga's 6 is a distinctly memorable moment, so I would go with that (pending Sam Curran's hattrick ball in first over of the upcoming final  )

[kingdaveeagle]

1. S Curran
2. Foakes
3. Foakes.
4. no idea

[guildfordbat]

As a member of Surrey Supporters Club, I've been asked to vote on the following categories by early next week:
1. Surrey Young Player of the Season
2. Surrey Most Improved Player of the Season
3. Surrey Player of the Season
4. Surrey Moment of the Season.

Meanings of such words as 'Young' and 'Moment' are left to each voter's discretion.

Anyway, finding it particularly tricky this year. Grateful for your views.

Thanks for your views, folks.

After some head scratching, I voted:

1. Sam Curran. Just about ''no contest'' as Olly said although in many other years his brother Tom, still only 21, would have had a strong case for shouldering so much of the bowling.

2. Stuart Meaker. Can still be expensive but is back taking wickets after a couple of years out through injuries and loss of form. A respectful and perhaps patronising nod here to Jade Dernbach - he is now much the team man as shown when in his 12th man role and his batting with Sanga in the RL 50 QF showed a responsibility never seen before from him.

3. Ben Foakes. He could actually have got my nomination for 2. above as well but I like to try and share my votes around. He has been a key and consistent member of the team throughout the season, impressing enormously with his glove work and contributing well with the bat. Acknowledgments here to Gareth Batty (although more as a bowler than a captain - his captaincy let him down at times in my eyes) and Kumar Sangakkara (still very reliable and a joy to watch although only one CC century, not helped by playing Caribbean T20).

4. Mark Footitt's wicket of Lancs' Kyle Jarvis to complete a sevenfer, effectively win the match and go a massive way to securing our Division One status. I readily admit that my vote here is greatly influenced by the importance I place on CC cricket. I'm sure that Sanga's scoop will actually win this award and understand that. There may be a few votes as well for Aaron Finch hitting his first ball as a Surrey cricketer (from Warks' Jeetan Patel at Guildford) for 6 - that would have been more meaningful if we hadn't produced such a dreadful team performance in that game.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Picking up Guildford's points, it's worth noting that both Footitt and Dernbach have made very strong contributions in most of the restricted number of matches in which they have played.

[thegooch7]

As a member of Surrey Supporters Club, I've been asked to vote on the following categories by early next week:
1. Surrey Young Player of the Season
2. Surrey Most Improved Player of the Season
3. Surrey Player of the Season
4. Surrey Moment of the Season.

Meanings of such words as 'Young' and 'Moment' are left to each voter's discretion.

Anyway, finding it particularly tricky this year. Grateful for your views.

1. Babyface by a country mile
2. Norah
3. Norah
4. Norah

1. Needs no explanation
2. Norah's first ton, plus other 'useful' contributions batting lower than ever, fairly consistent bowling, when using himself!
3. As above, plus his ever dependable captaincy. I was his biggest critic when we signed him, but since taking over the captaincy in extremely difficult circumstances he's got most things right.
4. His ton and sixfer against Hampshire was pivotal in the season

[Corporalhumblebucket]

1. Agree consensus that it's Sam Curran. (Sibley's has actually had quite a reasonable season. but doesn't seriously challenge Sam Curran.

.....

4. Sanga's 6 is a distinctly memorable moment, so I would go with that (pending Sam Curran's hattrick ball in first over of the upcoming final  )

Lol! Of course what I actually meant was "pending Sam Curran taking 3 wickets in 4 balls against Durham". 

What a player and what a prospect!

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Lol! Of course what I actually meant was "pending Sam Curran taking 3 wickets in 4 balls against Durham". 

What a player and what a prospect!

Lol again! What I really, really meant was "pending Sam Curran taking 4 top order wickets in 7 balls against Durham

[guildfordbat]

Been out for the day. Where's the Steven Davies tribute thread so I can make my usual miserable old git comment?

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Been out for the day. Where's the Steven Davies tribute thread so I can make my usual miserable old git comment?

Thought we'd let you, as his greatest fan, start off the thread!

A few T20 stats - all figures relate to performance specifically for Surrey:

* Davies has the fourth highest strike rate among Surrey batsmen in T20, at 146.39. That's just a whisker behind Jason Roy.  (Minimum qualification 250 balls faced.)
* He has the third highest aggregate runs scored for Surrey (1584), behind only Roy (1st) and Ramps (2nd)
* He has the third most half centuries (10) behind only Roy and Ramps

To be fair, Davies has played more innings than most, and has regularly opened - which helps greatly in this form of cricket!  Nonetheless his strike rate is very impressive.

[guildfordbat]

Corporal - to be fair to Davies and me, he can bat and I've never said otherwise.

Anyway, give him a couple of months and he'll probably want to come back which is the crux of my issue.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Corporal - to be fair to Davies and me, he can bat and I've never said otherwise.

Anyway, give him a couple of months and he'll probably want to come back which is the crux of my issue.

Agreed, and recognised!

[James100]

Final averages for the season

Batting:

Sangakkara 1039 @ 49.48
Finch 292 @ 48.67
Foakes 759 @ 42.17
Burns 1144 @ 40.86
Sam Curran 472 @ 39.33
Roy 745 @ 39.21
Davies 923 @ 38.46
Harinath 707 @ 35.35
Sibley 377 @ 34.27
Ansari 439 @ 27.44
Batty 478 @ 22.76
Tom Curran 427 @ 17.08


Bowling:

Rampaul 21@ 24.29
Footit 34 @ 26.85
Sam Curran 27 @ 27.85
Meaker 37 @ 30.95
Batty 41 @ 31.22
Ansari 22 @ 31.41
Tom Curran 33 @ 45.27
Burke 4 @ 46.00
Sibley 2 @ 55.50
Dunn 1 @ 188 (worst in the division)
Pillans - 4 matches, no average

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Actually would like to change my player of the season vote to Sam Curran

Our upturn in form coincided with his exams finishing, and he's been simply superb. An 18 year old averaging nearly 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball in division one county cricket? Absurd talent - absolutely absurd

[guildfordbat]

Final averages for the season

Batting:

Sangakkara 1039 @ 49.48
Finch 292 @ 48.67
Foakes 759 @ 42.17
Burns 1144 @ 40.86
Sam Curran 472 @ 39.33
Roy 745 @ 39.21
Davies 923 @ 38.46
Harinath 707 @ 35.35
Sibley 377 @ 34.27
Ansari 439 @ 27.44
Batty 478 @ 22.76
Tom Curran 427 @ 17.08


Bowling:

Rampaul 21@ 24.29
Footit 34 @ 26.85
Sam Curran 27 @ 27.85
Meaker 37 @ 30.95
Batty 41 @ 31.22
Ansari 22 @ 31.41
Tom Curran 33 @ 45.27
Burke 4 @ 46.00
Sibley 2 @ 55.50
Dunn 1 @ 188 (worst in the division)
Pillans - 4 matches, no average

Thanks for those details, James.

Meaker, Rampaul and Footitt at 9, 10, Jack lengthens the tail but, along with Sam Curran somewhere in the middle order, do appear to be our best seam attack. It was often said that Tom Curran was unlucky - maybe but he'll need to change his luck next season.

The batting averages generally seem reasonable but that's about it. Quite a few should be looking to add 5 runs to their average for next season.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Tom Curran should be the winner of an "unsung hero" or "ironman" award - been a tireless workhorse all year, and whilst his figures probably don't reflect how he's truly bowled at times he's an important cog in our bowling attack

[guildfordbat]

Tom Curran should be the winner of an "unsung hero" or "ironman" award - been a tireless workhorse all year, and whilst his figures probably don't reflect how he's truly bowled at times he's an important cog in our bowling attack

I get that and fully appreciate Tom Curran's massive contribution this season - see my post above re Young Player of the Season. However, a frontline bowler cannot continue averaging over 45 runs per wicket indefinitely.

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