2016 World Rugby U20 Championship - Tournament Thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Can't see a tournament thread, so here we go.

The 2016 World Rugby Under 20 Championship will be the ninth annual international rugby union competition for Under 20 national teams.

The event is being organised in England by rugby's governing body, World Rugby. A total of 12 nations will play in the tournament, which will be held at two venues in Greater Manchester—AJ Bell Stadium in Salford and Manchester City Academy Stadium in Manchester.

New Zealand will go into the tournament as defending champions.

Pool A: New Zealand, Wales, Ireland, Georgia

Match 5: 7 June 2016 Wales 25 - 26 Ireland
Match 3: 7 June 2016 New Zealand 55 - 0 Georgia
Match 10: 11 June 2016 New Zealand 24 - 33 Ireland
Match 11: 11 June 2016 Wales 10 - 9 Georgia
Match 17: 15 June 2016 Ireland v Georgia
Match 14: 15 June 2016 New Zealand v Wales

Pool B: England, Australia, Scotland, Italy

Match 2: 7 June 2016 Australia 10 - 15 Scotland
Match 6: 7 June 2016 England 48 - 10 Italy
Match 7: 11 June 2016 Australia 38 - 10 Italy
Match 12: 11 June 2016 England 44 - 0 Scotland
Match 16: 15 June 2016 Scotland v Italy
Match 15: 15 June 2016 England v Australia

Pool C: South Africa, France, Argentina, Japan

Match 1: 7 June 2016 France 15 - 24 Argentina
Match 4: 7 June 2016 South Africa 59 - 19 Japan
Match 8: 11 June 2016 France 46 - 14 Japan
Match 9: 11 June 2016 South Africa 13 - 19 Argentina
Match 13: 15 June 2016 Argentina v Japan
Match 18: 15 June 2016 South Africa v France

Good luck, everyone.

[eirebilly]

maybe the aviva experience of some of the english lads is the main difference. mallinder seems incapable of making a wrong decision or bad kick.

Except for the sliced kick in the opening minutes

He is very good though.

[quinsforever]

i missed the first 10 mins...its not my rose shaped spectacles honest

[quinsforever]

i am so pleased that it's an all NH final. watched the whole Ire NZ game and was elated.

[trebellbobaggins]

Predictions for super Saturday

SA domicile select XV 20 - Ireland 21
Ireland - u-20s 50  - England u-125kgs 0

Cough.

[formerly known as Sam]

The Irish replacement hooker needs to calm down a bit, that's not very sporting behaviour to first the assistant ref and then to the ref.

Ireland need to spread the ball. Carrying the ball straight into the England midfield is dim. When they spread the ball they are making far more ground as the England back three isn't up to much.

[trebellbobaggins]

Arg leading RSA 30-19, it would be good to see them hold on for the win and get some new names on the trophy. I'm also hoping Ireland triumph later on for the same reasons - the two best teams in this tournament for me.

I missed that , how did it end?

I clearly didn't portent this one at all. I do feel eng switched off in the SA game after dominating.

[lostinwales]

I think getting 5 tries in as many minutes might just be beyond Ireland at this stage though

[lostinwales]

Arg 49 SA 19 - from the website

[mikey_dragon]

Yep Arg smashed it in the end, they were so full of life. As I alluded to their 13 looks a star in the making and score a hat trick. 

What can I say about England U20, it's like men v boys. They must have done a LOT of work on their defence since the 6N, they're unrecognisable. Their back line is a match winner in itself but it must be the forwards who have stepped up to give them that platform.

[trebellbobaggins]

England are just too good LF4L, just thought that Ireland may have it in them to win this. Some very good talent there for Ireland and a few certain future senior representatives.

Most impressive is that eng have been producing this for several years now.

Both them and Ireland have some good future prospects though.


Well done on the third World Cup to England!

[aucklandlaurie]

Well played England, and well prepared, The thing that has impressed me in this tournament is the accuracy in moving bodies at the breakdown, and both England and Ireland were the best at in that department.

[trebellbobaggins]

Forget to say , well done to my Cornish boy the coach Martin Haag.

[eirebilly]

Well done to the England U20, massive turnaround from the 6N and the best team in the comp.

Happy Ireland got to the final but met a superior team.

Good day for English rugby

[trebellbobaggins]

Arg 49 SA 19 - from the website

God, A stuffing.

[lostinwales]

Still feels a bit as if NZ just woke up a bit too late. Their last couple of performances look like they were brutal

[mikey_dragon]

What was NZ/Aus score? That was a really competitive match for a while. I didn't watch all of it because I switched to the football, which I'm not ashamed to admit...

[aucklandlaurie]

What was NZ/Aus score? That was a really competitive match for a while. I didn't watch all of it because I switched to the football, which I'm not ashamed to admit...

55 - 24.

[Exiledinborders]

Still feels a bit as if NZ just woke up a bit too late. Their last couple of performances look like they were brutal

Yes but they were playing in semi and final for fifth place so opposition was not top class.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

never thought i'd say this...but...cmon ireland

You did realise that since Thursday's vote, that tranportation is to be reintroduced - especially for off-message, anti-English remarks, quins?

It'a Wagga Wagga for you, you Judas

[eirebilly]

England are just too good LF4L, just thought that Ireland may have it in them to win this. Some very good talent there for Ireland and a few certain future senior representatives.

Yeah would like to see Porter, Ryan and Deegan get games in the Pro 12 in the near future. They look like potential stars.

Stockdale has been impressive as well. Certainly some very good prospects. Deegan looks very much like a Davie Wallace in the making and Ryan is certainly going to be a big name in the future. Gutted for the loss, England were simply better, but was very happy to see some potential stars in the making.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Mallinder seemed to look more and more at home at 10 as the tournament progressed, I know I have a natural bias but he did look class and that boot, subtle kicks or howitzer, all accurate and all well thought out, he is like Ford in being able to see space behind the defence and put the ball in it in a manner that allows his teammates to attack the ball.

Massively impressed by him and the forwards who showed great ball handling skills as well as having the special awareness to know where people are in support without looking.

[Exiledinborders]

I know I have a natural bias

Are you Jim Mallinder?

Seriously, I think he is a great prospect but I suspect that twelve is going to be his best position. For England at twelve he will be able to offer all the Farrell does in terms of being a second playmaker plus use his size to make Tuilagi style busts.

[The Great Aukster]

England are just too good LF4L, just thought that Ireland may have it in them to win this. Some very good talent there for Ireland and a few certain future senior representatives.

Most impressive is that eng have been producing this for several years now.

Both them and Ireland have some good future prospects though.


Well done on the third World Cup to England!

Well done to England - best team by a distance.

Don't think there are too many "good future prospects though". South Africa and New Zealand were uncharacteristically poor by their standards so the quality of the competition wasn't as high as normal and therefore some players maybe seemed to shine brighter against a grey background.

Mallinder is literally and figuratively head and shoulders above everyone else in the tournament. His size and pace is accompanied with a rugby intelligence and skill level that makes him a very unique player.
Aside from him, Will Evans stood out as a prospect, but as England tend not to like small backrows he may find his opportunities limited.

For Ireland, James Ryan is a good prospect because he is obviously a leader, but forwards are notoriously difficult to predict because they generally need additional bulk to make it at senior level.

[The Great Aukster]

England are just too good LF4L, just thought that Ireland may have it in them to win this. Some very good talent there for Ireland and a few certain future senior representatives.

Yeah would like to see Porter, Ryan and Deegan get games in the Pro 12 in the near future. They look like potential stars.

Stockdale has been impressive as well. Certainly some very good prospects. Deegan looks very much like a Davie Wallace in the making and Ryan is certainly going to be a big name in the future. Gutted for the loss, England were simply better, but was very happy to see some potential stars in the making.

Ryan is the most likely to get gametime. Leinster are strong in the front and backrows so Porter and Deegan will need injuries to get them up the order. Stockdale got a couple of games at Ulster when there was a raft of injuries but showed he isn't really ready for the senior side yet.

[Poorfour]

Aukster, I'd broadly agree with that, but I think you're underestimating Marchant. He didn't do much that was flash (though created and scored one try, scored another and created a third in the final), but the number of times his team mates threw him bad ball and he got them back on the front foot was remarkable, and his defence is strong even by AP standards already.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I know I have a natural bias

Are you Jim Mallinder?

Seriously, I think he is a great prospect but I suspect that twelve is going to be his best position. For England at twelve he will be able to offer all the Farrell does in terms of being a second playmaker plus use his size to make Tuilagi style busts.

,

No, I still have hair.

I agree his best position is 12, however having been shoved into the 10 slot due to injury, I was very impressed at how he game by game got better and better, especially considering he is not really built to be a 10.

I could see Saints playing him there to give Myler a rest, he looks better than Hanrahan in a 10 shirt and kicks better as well.

[doctor_grey]

I know I have a natural bias

Are you Jim Mallinder?

Seriously, I think he is a great prospect but I suspect that twelve is going to be his best position. For England at twelve he will be able to offer all the Farrell does in terms of being a second playmaker plus use his size to make Tuilagi style busts.

,

No, I still have hair.

I agree his best position is 12, however having been shoved into the 10 slot due to injury, I was very impressed at how he game by game got better and better, especially considering he is not really built to be a 10.

I could see Saints playing him there to give Myler a rest, he looks better than Hanrahan in a 10 shirt and kicks better as well.

To be fair, my mum looks better with 10 on her back than JJ.  Agree about Prince Harry (future England and Lions captain).  But having a 12 who can cover 10 is kind of similar to a 10 playing 12, no?  Even function as an emergency cover 15.  Flexibility will be important.  He had an excellent tournament.  However, despite being only 19, he was still a Premiership level player in a junior level tournament.  He should have outperformed almost every player, and he did.  

Next step in the progression for prince Harry is to secure a regular starting berth at Saints before contemplating his England jersey.  In theory, and we all know how that goes, Prince Harry at 12 with a healthy Tuilagi at 13 gives the best balance to the England mid-field.  However, that assumes Prince Harry develops as we expect and Tuilagi actually gets healthy and back to his prior level.  No sure thing indeed.  The main point is we have a lot of options coming through and the competition for spots will be fierce.

it is easy for WELL-PAST-IT and I to be somewhat biased.  We have watched this young man perform extremely well over the second half of the season.  Barring injury, his future in Rugby appears to be very bright.

[Cyril]

Mallinder looks a truly excellent prospect. Big, quick, good hands and a great temperament. Another play-maker at 12 is a great option. The Ford/Farrell axis looks really good now, but I think Harry could be well in the mix next year.

[The Great Aukster]

Aukster, I'd broadly agree with that, but I think you're underestimating Marchant. He didn't do much that was flash (though created and scored one try, scored another and created a third in the final), but the number of times his team mates threw him bad ball and he got them back on the front foot was remarkable, and his defence is strong even by AP standards already.

From what (albeit limited) I saw of Marchant I thought his first name might have been Bosh rather than Joe. Even though size-wise he's very similar to Jonathan Joseph he played more like Burrell. Nothing wrong with bosh though - isn't it is ironic that Curwin who is a great footballer is called Bosch? Maybe Marchant has more guile in his locker than was needed in the games I watched but I can't say he looked anything out of the ordinary.

[formerly known as Sam]

England are just too good LF4L, just thought that Ireland may have it in them to win this. Some very good talent there for Ireland and a few certain future senior representatives.

Most impressive is that eng have been producing this for several years now.

Both them and Ireland have some good future prospects though.


Well done on the third World Cup to England!

Well done to England - best team by a distance.

Don't think there are too many "good future prospects though". South Africa and New Zealand were uncharacteristically poor by their standards so the quality of the competition wasn't as high as normal and therefore some players maybe seemed to shine brighter against a grey background.

Mallinder is literally and figuratively head and shoulders above everyone else in the tournament. His size and pace is accompanied with a rugby intelligence and skill level that makes him a very unique player.
Aside from him, Will Evans stood out as a prospect, but as England tend not to like small backrows he may find his opportunities limited.

Will is six foot and 14 stone at 19. He's got another year at this level in theory and could quite easily strap a stone or two on to his frame by the time he's hit 21 which would see him at standard size and bigger than some international sevens. Having said that at 19 he's broken in to the Tigers team (last two teenagers to break in to the Tigers back row were Croft and Moody) and there's stories suggesting that Jones has asked for recordings of Evans during trainING to gauge his work rate and ability.

Mallinder has the chance to be a great 12 for England. If he can maintain a high kicking percentage, keep a solid defence and then set alight what is a stodgy Saints midfield at present in attack then Farrell will be looking over his shoulder with concern.

[lostinwales]

Happy days for England rugby. We have the best English marksman since St Johnny and a real tough all round competitor at 12 in a winning combination with Ford at 10 with his game management skills, and they could easily be gone in 2 years for something better

[asoreleftshoulder]

Well done England,great performance and you got stronger as the tournament went on,worthy winners.
From an Irish perspective the tournament was a huge success,we got a bit of luck to beat Wales but then really grew into it and the players and coaches maximised their talent.
You can only ask that a team plays to it's potential and Ireland did that, I hope to see a good few of those players go on to professional careers.

[Cumbrian]

Winning is nice but not necessarily the be all and end all. To me it is more important to identify individuals who are good enough to move on to the next level and I believe that both England and Ireland have managed to do that. Even countries that didn't do as well such as Wales and Scotland can be pleased that they discovered guys like Harry Keddie and James Richie. It's a very worthwhile undertaking for all involved in my opinion.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Mallinder the obvious candidate to step up to Int rugby within the year.

Evans is too small to make it to the next level for me. He looked pretty good all tournament but I can't see his frame taking 2 stone which is a shame, he's handy at the breakdown.

[DaveM]

Well done to England - best team by a distance.

Don't think there are too many "good future prospects though". South Africa and New Zealand were uncharacteristically poor by their standards so the quality of the competition wasn't as high as normal and therefore some players maybe seemed to shine brighter against a grey background.

How many times in the last 4 years (the point NZ went into decline) have NZ or SA had really good sides? I think the quality was about the same as the other tournaments I've seen (I've been watching since about 2010 as I recall).

England have a pack full of players who could go on and play international rugby. The technical ability is very impressive, and I think we have some monster tight-heads coming through. Brophy-Clews only lasted 20 minutes but is a special player, Mallinder, William and Marchant are all excellent and I was pleased with the SHs (an area where England need greater depth). I didn't see an outside back I'd be putting money on yet, but you never know how they'll develop.

[profitius]

Well done to England - best team by a distance.

Don't think there are too many "good future prospects though". South Africa and New Zealand were uncharacteristically poor by their standards so the quality of the competition wasn't as high as normal and therefore some players maybe seemed to shine brighter against a grey background.

How many times in the last 4 years (the point NZ went into decline) have NZ or SA had really good sides? I think the quality was about the same as the other tournaments I've seen (I've been watching since about 2010 as I recall).

England have a pack full of players who could go on and play international rugby. The technical ability is very impressive, and I think we have some monster tight-heads coming through. Brophy-Clews only lasted 20 minutes but is a special player, Mallinder, William and Marchant are all excellent and I was pleased with the SHs (an area where England need greater depth). I didn't see an outside back I'd be putting money on yet, but you never know how they'll develop.

If anything the quality is rising. Wales and France were the best teams in the 6 nations and look what happened to them. NZ only made 5th. It was Irelands strongest U20 squad I've seen. The Scots beat Australia but thats not because Australia have declined but because the Scots have improved.

[profitius]

England are just too good LF4L, just thought that Ireland may have it in them to win this. Some very good talent there for Ireland and a few certain future senior representatives.

Yeah would like to see Porter, Ryan and Deegan get games in the Pro 12 in the near future. They look like potential stars.

There'll be plenty of these players making the step up. Also consider that Connors, Gallagher, Claffey, Arnold, Johnston, O'Donnell, Kenny and possibly Power were first choice squad member who were missing, its a really strong group this year.

[DaveM]

If anything the quality is rising. Wales and France were the best teams in the 6 nations and look what happened to them. NZ only made 5th. It was Irelands strongest U20 squad I've seen. The Scots beat Australia but thats not because Australia have declined but because the Scots have improved.

I agree. England were understrength, and quite possibly not well coached in the 6 Nations, but they were repeatedly well beaten and I think that shows the quality in the NH - quality that wasn't there in the first few years of the u20s.

[formerly known as Sam]

Mallinder the obvious candidate to step up to Int rugby within the year.

Evans is too small to make it to the next level for me. He looked pretty good all tournament but I can't see his frame taking 2 stone which is a shame, he's handy at the breakdown.

Depends what you determine as the next level. He's AP standard and will establish himself nicely in the next couple of years, remember he's a first year under 20s player he's still got some time to develop physically. Not that, that was an issue when he was hunting down and then mugging off Morgan on his debut. He has speed, quality hands and is a cut above most other English backrowers at the breakdown. How often does Cockers promote teenagers to the Tigers first team?

Whether he fits in to the backrow of an England team will be a different matter. He's unlikely to bulk up too much more (though Thacker certainly found space on his tiny frame for some extra weight) so he'll need to be paired with a powerful 6 and 8 which England are not short of. His work rate would certainly fit with England but he's certainly not a big hitter.

[DaveM]

How often does Cockers promote teenagers to the Tigers first team?

I'll answer that! Almost never.

As you say, England have the opportunity to put out a large 6 and 8, and I don't think the second row will be under-powered. A 7 who can get to the breakdown fast might be worth losing a bit of weight in that context, although it might be more likely in periods of better weather and on summer tours.

[George Carlin]

Well done to England - best team by a distance.

Don't think there are too many "good future prospects though". South Africa and New Zealand were uncharacteristically poor by their standards so the quality of the competition wasn't as high as normal and therefore some players maybe seemed to shine brighter against a grey background.

How many times in the last 4 years (the point NZ went into decline) have NZ or SA had really good sides? I think the quality was about the same as the other tournaments I've seen (I've been watching since about 2010 as I recall).

England have a pack full of players who could go on and play international rugby. The technical ability is very impressive, and I think we have some monster tight-heads coming through. Brophy-Clews only lasted 20 minutes but is a special player, Mallinder, William and Marchant are all excellent and I was pleased with the SHs (an area where England need greater depth). I didn't see an outside back I'd be putting money on yet, but you never know how they'll develop.

If anything the quality is rising. Wales and France were the best teams in the 6 nations and look what happened to them. NZ only made 5th. It was Irelands strongest U20 squad I've seen. The Scots beat Australia but thats not because Australia have declined but because the Scots have improved.

All true. Scotland will only continue to get better (hopefully) as we have now opened the 4 regional academies that the sport in Scotland has been crying out for. That young England squad has shown the standard that is achievable and I hope that Scotland kicks on to try and emulate that. The young Irish side also caught my attention - lots of skill there which you hope a professional training regime will enhance rather than remove.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Mallinder the obvious candidate to step up to Int rugby within the year.

Evans is too small to make it to the next level for me. He looked pretty good all tournament but I can't see his frame taking 2 stone which is a shame, he's handy at the breakdown.

Depends what you determine as the next level. He's AP standard and will establish himself nicely in the next couple of years, remember he's a first year under 20s player he's still got some time to develop physically. Not that, that was an issue when he was hunting down and then mugging off Morgan on his debut. He has speed, quality hands and is a cut above most other English backrowers at the breakdown. How often does Cockers promote teenagers to the Tigers first team?

Whether he fits in to the backrow of an England team will be a different matter. He's unlikely to bulk up too much more (though Thacker certainly found space on his tiny frame for some extra weight) so he'll need to be paired with a powerful 6 and 8 which England are not short of. His work rate would certainly fit with England but he's certainly not a big hitter.

It was more the England full side I was thinking about Sam. You need a minimum level of size/physicality to reach that level and I doubt at this stage that Evans will reach this. When you look at Underhill for example who is the same age yet already has around 2 stone on him.

I've no doubt he'll make a decent AP player, much like Thacker.

[DaveM]

Having now watched the final that was very impressive. The tempo and accuracy England showed was excellent. I think that is the best England u20 side I've seen (and I didn't think I'd be saying that at the end of the 6 Nations), with the average quality being very high. Plenty of future internationals there.

[formerly known as Sam]

Mallinder the obvious candidate to step up to Int rugby within the year.

Evans is too small to make it to the next level for me. He looked pretty good all tournament but I can't see his frame taking 2 stone which is a shame, he's handy at the breakdown.

Depends what you determine as the next level. He's AP standard and will establish himself nicely in the next couple of years, remember he's a first year under 20s player he's still got some time to develop physically. Not that, that was an issue when he was hunting down and then mugging off Morgan on his debut. He has speed, quality hands and is a cut above most other English backrowers at the breakdown. How often does Cockers promote teenagers to the Tigers first team?

Whether he fits in to the backrow of an England team will be a different matter. He's unlikely to bulk up too much more (though Thacker certainly found space on his tiny frame for some extra weight) so he'll need to be paired with a powerful 6 and 8 which England are not short of. His work rate would certainly fit with England but he's certainly not a big hitter.

It was more the England full side I was thinking about Sam. You need a minimum level of size/physicality to reach that level and I doubt at this stage that Evans will reach this. When you look at Underhill for example who is the same age yet already has around 2 stone on him.

I've no doubt he'll make a decent AP player, much like Thacker.

Underhill is a very different style of player. Currently here's being compared to Hill (if he can get close and stay at that level he'll be one he'll of a player). Evans is more like Hooper. He's certainly not lacked physicality to date, leaving Kvesic red faced on Evans debut.

If you look at Cane and Hooper they are around the 16 stone mark. At 19 Evans is over 14 and has plenty of area for development. He won't be Haskell sized but he should be able to bulk up more and at 6 foot he has frame to work with.

[DaveM]

One thing which struck my in the final was how comfortable at FH Mallinder looked. There is obviously a consensus he'll end up a 12, but I'm now not sure. His game management was excellent, and if you can MoM in a home JWC Final in a position then there must be a chance that will indeed turn out to be your best position.

I don't think Saints are particularly strong at FH, so it will be interesting to see where Mallinder gets his game time next season.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Mallinder will not end up at 10. He's too big for starters, you get less time on the ball the higher the level and Mallinder wasn't exactly fast as distributing.

He's a top talent but it's obvious he's not going to become a 10.

[DaveM]

Mallinder will not end up at 10. He's too big for starters, you get less time on the ball the higher the level and Mallinder wasn't exactly fast as distributing.

He's a top talent but it's obvious he's not going to become a 10.

No it isn't.

What is obvious is he is a huge talent and likes running the game. He has quick hands and I'm struggling to remember evidence he passes slowly.

No reason you can't have a big FH if they are talented enough, and of course his size means he presents challenges to the opposition in defence and attack and he'll be able to dominate his opposite number physically in many cases.

MoM in a JWC Final deserves to be taken seriously. Just because you've made up your mind doesn't mean his coaches have (England could have played Malins at 10 if they'd wanted to btw).

[Sgt_Pooly]

Completley disagree.

He's too big to play fly half. U20 rugby is hardly a great judge of if a player will be a success in a position.

The lad is an obvious talent and he done an excellent job out of position. He was obviously assisted by a dominant pack and strong midfield but he still showed up well.

He'll obviously end up at 12 but stranger things have happened, Bergermasco at scrum half for example.

Anyone with half a brain can see Mallinder has the skill set to become an excellent 12. Getting some game time at 10 will do him no harm though. I could see him making the AI squad as a centre if he starts the season well.

[formerly known as Sam]

He's a competent playmaker and he has a nice range of kicks in the locker but at ni point does he really look a natural at 10. To me he always looked like a centre that was standing in at first receiver. He doesn't challenge the defence on the gain line, his passing is good but limited and in Williams he had a gift of a 12 that mopped up and awful lot and dominated ball in hand, he's unlikely to have that luxury at senior level.

Go back and look at Ford in the final vs NZ from a few years back, that awareness of space and skill ball in hand is so obvious even with a team not as dominant. He always looked the general, Mallinder doesn't. At 12 Mallinder can have a bigger impact his long passing game moving the ball wide swiftly and his range of kicks a handy second option, also at 12 he can get more use from his impressive running game.

[doctor_grey]

Gentlemen,
Please, before the discussion continues further into the night, I would request you refer to Mallinder as Prince Harry (future England and Lions captain).  I understand, if in the interest of time, you omit the part in the parenthesis.  But an honourific is still an hoonourific.  

Prince Harry would indeed be a good fly half.  He does have good vision and fast enough hands to get the ball where it needs to go.  He certainly can attack the defense, but I believe he was asked to play more  controlled and conservative in the U20 final.  And still won Man of the Match.    

On the other hand, I agree his future is at 12.  If he does develop as we expect (and hope) he would be a terrific asset at inside centre.  It is a huge advantage to be able to step in at fly half and at fullback as well as play in the centres.  It will help him earn his spot at Saints and, eventually, England and Lions (as captain, of course).  

Since he is still a kid, I don't want to rush him at any step.  He is still growing and maturing.  As a doctor I don't like the idea of kids playing with adults.  Indeed different people mature at different rates.  But it is a rare kid truly ready for big time physical sport at 19.  Intellectually, Emotionally, Physically.

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