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Canelo/Oscar's cunning plan...

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sun 18 Sep 2016, 9:22 pm

So now Canelo has won the WBO junior middleweight champion, according to the WBO rules, Canelo can get an immediate title shot at WBO middleweight titleholder Billy Joe Saunders - provided Canelo openly declares he is moving up to 160.

Everyone knows Gennady Golovkin is desperate to clean up the alphabet titles and is very eager to face Saunders next.

So could Golden Boy scupper GGG's plans again?

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Post by catchweight on Sun 18 Sep 2016, 9:37 pm

I dont think they fancy Canelo against proper middleweights. He wouldnt be fighting at his made up weight if they did. There is a whiff of Chavez Jr about him for me.

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Post by melv500 on Sun 18 Sep 2016, 10:00 pm

Not sure as there would be even more pressure on him growing a pair and getting in the ring with GGG.

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sun 18 Sep 2016, 11:00 pm

melv500 wrote:Not sure as there would be even more pressure on him growing a pair and getting in the ring with GGG.
If Canelo beats Saunders and keeps the WBO belt, if could force Golovkin to move up to 168 to obtain a big fight if Canelo stills refuses to fight him.

Could be the best way to potentially kill the GGG-Canelo fight once and for all.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 11:27 am

You guys heard the BS that Oscar has been spewing about an 8 figure offer?

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Post by Pedro147 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 11:39 am

BoxingFan88 wrote:You guys heard the BS that Oscar has been spewing about an 8 figure offer?

Apparently they've offered GGG $10m flat fee for the fight. However you wouldn't know what the offer contains in terms of Ts&Cs.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 11:47 am

Pedro147 wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:You guys heard the BS that Oscar has been spewing about an 8 figure offer?

Apparently they've offered GGG $10m flat fee for the fight. However you wouldn't know what the offer contains in terms of Ts&Cs.

The issue is that the fight is probably worth a hell of a lot more than that

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 11:55 am

$10m flat fee with not cut of PPV revenue or no percentage of the gate receipts...In a fight estimated to generate $100m+, Oscar trying to screw Golovkin out of the fair 55/45 split.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 12:35 pm

Still a lifetime of money though.

GGG should call the bluff and take it.

Offer Canelo a rematch on more aggressive terms.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 2:12 pm

Let's say 2 million buys at $49.50 plus all the rest of the money the fight will generate and $10m is a derisory offer

Considerably less than 90/10 !

55/45 seems the only fair split maybe Oscar is hoping for 60/40 or maybe he won't go above 75/25, joke let's hope Canelo's sales continue to plummet

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 2:35 pm

I think come next September Canelo will beat GGG. GGG is a very good fighter, but he is a little hyped.

Canelo is getting better and will be coming into his prime. Goldenboy aren't confident Canelo can win yet, but come next September he will take the fight and win a close decision.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:05 pm

Golovkin wasn't even on HBO PPV on Saturday and only 833,000 people tuned in to watch him and Gonzales...P4P 1 and 2....45 million odd subscribers..

He sells diddly piddly

10 million sounds a great deal to me....Canelo is very popular..

I may be a better singer than Bieber but It doesn't matter if nobody gives a crap..

GGG gets what he is worth and compared to Canelo it is sack all..

Cheers..

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:20 pm

The fact is, who knows GGG?

Ordinary man doesn't know, or even care about him.

His style isn't THATexciting. He is no Hearns or Tyson.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:39 pm

Let's be honest since ppv has pushed boxing into a niche sport, I'd argue that the ordinary man doesn't know Canelo any more than he does Golovkin

Back to the split, the only other massive ppv seller Canelo has had was with Floyd. He can't generate massive sales on his own. Takes two to tango 90/10 is derisory

60/40 I'd accept if I was Hermann

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:42 pm

At least 70/30. Canelo is pretty well known. More so than GGG for sure.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:44 pm

There are millions of Mexicans who know who Alvarez is and that's the market that matters, his fight with Khan did 600k buys, his fight with Cotto did 900k and the rest are around the 300k mark, that's a lot of revenue he's generating that GGG isn't.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:46 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There are millions of Mexicans who know who Alvarez is and that's the market that matters, his fight with Khan did 600k buys, his fight with Cotto did 900k and the rest are around the 300k mark, that's a lot of revenue he's generating that GGG isn't.

He is probably the most marketable star currently in boxing, other than Pacquaio and Floyd if you count him.

GGG is a good fighter, but it is a fact that he hasn't close to the same following as Alveraz.

Mexican fans love their boxing.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:55 pm

900k Cotto who's a big star himself, Khan 600k the rest 300k

So if the fight is a blockbuster and does 2m clearly Golovkin generating the sales

So let's give him at least fifty percent the difference, fifty percent 1.1m buys

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 3:58 pm

Not quite how it works, if he was generating the sales he'd be on PPV as things stood but he isn't, Alvarez generates buys based on the level of his opponent and whether his Mexican following think it's worth shelling out on.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:02 pm

It really isn't up for discussion. Canelo is the biggest star in boxing. Why did Floyd do huge numbers against him?

The Cotto fight was also very good numbers. I expected that fight to pass 1 million, but it was close.

On a second note, it's painful to see boxing numbers being low. UFC sells pretty well at the minute. I guess that is down to McGregor mouthing.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:07 pm

I'm only throwing numbers out there, 90/10 still derisory for me

I think 55/45 is ok but on principle wouldn't accept a penny less than 60/40 which is probably just what Oscar wants to hear Hermann say then it's 65/35 take it or leave it

The fight's not happening hope his Mexican fans turn on him

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Post by Guest on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:10 pm

So is professional boxing a sport or is it show business / entertainment?  It seems to me this GGG - Canelo business, the discussion of the income and the split, Canelo giving up a belt, the four different belts, Canelo weight, light middleweight belts and middleweight belts etc ... it just seems to highlight that boxing is maybe more about money than sport.  Floyd Mayweather seemed to know this.  

I am coming round to the view boxers tend not to want to avoid each other, each must have an over-inflated opinion of their abilities, but when money is involved, especially big money, then other factors come into play.


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:15 pm

Superstars don't vacate their belts to avoid their greatest challenge and disgrace the noble art

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:15 pm

He isn't worth 40%. I don't care for the business side, but it's the way it is done. Every big fighter gets the lions share.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:17 pm

.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:20 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Superstars don't vacate their belts to avoid their greatest challenge and disgrace the noble art

He has a loyal army of fans willing to pay top dollar and it's all that counts..

51,000 in Texas..


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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:23 pm

GGG fans get upset easy. I like him and do believe some fighters avoid him. However he isn't a big star and it's about time he moved up for a real challenge.

If it was Floyd sitting coasting in a division full of Mickey Mouse talent, he would be blasted. Floyd, Manny, JMM etc made a move up when required.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:26 pm

He does a good gate yes but so increasingly does Golovkin

But we're talking ppv buys and he can't do anywhere near 2m on his own

GGG's cut should reflect the buys he's helping to generate surely

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:29 pm

He's getting 10 million.

GGG v Lemieux did turd PPV...Why Brook wasn't on it.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:30 pm

Talking of fans you notice that those calling for a smaller split are the very same who've been calling Golovkin crap and overrated the last couple of years sometimes tthink this split talk is motivated by a fear of seeing GGG demolish Canelo becoming a global star and make them eat their words

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:31 pm

I call GGG crap...

Ok

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:32 pm

You used to but agreed last couple of months you've been forced to change your tune


Fairplay...

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Post by Pedro147 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:41 pm

Was Brook v GGG PPV? Does anyone know the sales figures for that?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:44 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:You used to but agreed last couple of months you've been forced to change your tune


Fairplay...

He hasn't done anything in the last few months...

Always rated him....But he's as bigger cherrypicker as everyone else..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:49 pm

Said the Canelo win would get better and better over time.....starting to be proven right. Especially is he waits for GGG 18 months older and gets the win there.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 4:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:You used to but agreed last couple of months you've been forced to change your tune


Fairplay...

He hasn't done anything in the last few months...

Always rated him....But he's as bigger cherrypicker as everyone else..


Ok well if you've always rated him that's fine by me


Disagree about the cherry picking he's concentrating on all the four belts doesn't need to nor should move up till he's collected them. I'm a purist though and that is what I believe

Only person you could throw at him is Ward cos he slightly backtracked on his words but at thee end of the day Ward wanted three tuneups as part of the deal , joke

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:00 pm

Champion for 6 years and he's only just started concentrating on the belts......ok..

As for pay well ask yourself...If Canelo had fought Brook Saturday would it have been on HBO PPV ??

You know the answer..


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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:03 pm

Everyone is a purist when it suits them.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:22 pm

You'd rather he didn't collect the last belt?

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Post by AdamT on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:29 pm

GGG is a good talent, but I don't think fighters are scared. If he had a big following, people would be queuing up to face him. It's all about risk and reward.

Canelo will fight him next year. In my opinion he will beat him. Canelo has good movement and a fantastic punch arsenal. He looks to be quicker than GGG as well.

If Canelo doesn't sustain too much early damage, he takes it on points.

GGG isn't hard to hit. Canelo will hit him plenty.

If they fought last year, I would of picked GGG to win handily. If they were to fight now, I'd back GGG to win a close fight. Maybe late stoppage. In a years time, I think Canelo can win, or at the very least push him hard.

Canelo struggles way guys with great movement and speed. However I watched the Khan fight again and Alveraz looked pretty sharp.


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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 5:35 pm

I have no interest in seeing him fight Saunders, much prefer to see him step up and take on Degale and the Super Middleweights.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 6:05 pm

That's very disrespectful to Saunders imo

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 6:19 pm

How is it, James Degale is better and more awkward than he is.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 6:34 pm

Not sure DeGale would be able to soak up those body shots for more than three or four rounds five tops. He needs to take breathers. Wouldn't mind seeing it though, he is awkward as you say

Talking of DeGale you notice he was peed of he didn't get porky Medina out of there. He shouldn't get down on himself like that sometimes you just have to outpoint these tough South Americans the important thing is he outpointed him clearly.

If he went on to beat more names than Froch say but didn't stop any but outpointed them all then he still would rate above Froch. The win is the most important thing and plenty of fans enjoy a good boxing display just as much as a ko concentrate on what you do best in DeGale's case that's boxing

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Post by catchweight on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 9:45 pm

They dont want the fight for Alvarez. They surrendered the title and withdrew from negotiations. I dont think they comforatable with Alvarez fighting middleweights. He goes into fights as a bigger, stronger fighter with the security blanket of favourable judging if needed. He isnt a mover, he doesnt have a good jab. He is strong and relies on heavy punching to win exchanges and overpower his opponents. Really, he should be fighting middleweights. That way you would get a more accurate judgement of him as a fighter. Im suspicious of him being overly reliant on his size and strength advantage and I think his failure thus far to make the move to middleweight proper despite a 170lb+ fighting weight suggests a lack of confidence from his team that he can handle top middleweights.

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Post by kingraf on Tue 20 Sep 2016, 5:03 pm

I must say: every time I watch Alvarez fight I'm a fan. A big fan. And then press conferences come and I get annoyed and hate him again. I thought he was very good against Liam Smith. He improves a lot with every fight, which I suppose happens when you're only 26. Which brings me to my point. A year ago, I didn't think he stood a chance vs GGG. But he's improved on his outings this year, especially against Smith. Who knows how much further he can develop. Even if GGG doesn't deteriorate, I think Canelo could close the gap on him in the next 12-18 months.

Now with regards to pay packets: I think a look at Hopkins-ODLH proves a little insightful here. Hopkins made $10 million and Oscar $30 million on a fight which made $56 million. So a 75-25 split. Don't know if that's fair or not, but in the words of 21st century philosopher Jay Z, "one percent of a billion Is more than they've ever seen"
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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 7:05 am

Golovkin vs Brook did 843k late afternoon (this wasn't prime time in the U.S.) and 593k watched the replay. He also sold out another venue (in yet another foreign country) and did well on Sky PPV (don't know if Hearn released numbers but pre-sales were through the roof and he claimed Golovkin had outdone Joshua - who is a monster in terms of PPV sales).
So while Canelo remains the sport's biggest draw, Golovkin is hardly struggling.

The $10m offer is chicken feed compared to what they'd pull in - a derisory offer from an increasingly desperate Oscar. It was good to see Kellerman calling GBP out rather than Canelo.
I'm hopeful it can happen within 12 months but if nothing concrete materialises soon, Loeffler needs to move on. The problem is, Golovkin kills Canelo and so if you're Oscar, why kill the Golden Goose? It sucks but that's modern boxing for you.

Jacobs looks like he's next. I'd then go for DeGale/Jack (even if Golovkin weighs in way under 168).

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 7:16 am

catchweight wrote:They dont want the fight for Alvarez. They surrendered the title and withdrew from negotiations. I dont think they comforatable with Alvarez fighting middleweights. He goes into fights  as a bigger, stronger fighter with the security blanket of favourable judging if needed. He isnt a mover, he doesnt have a good jab. He is strong and relies on heavy punching to win exchanges and overpower his opponents. Really, he should be fighting middleweights. That way you would get a more accurate judgement of him as a fighter. Im suspicious of him being overly reliant on his size and strength advantage and I think his failure thus far to make the move to middleweight proper despite a 170lb+ fighting weight suggests a lack of confidence from his team that he can handle top middleweights.

Hit the nail on the head buddy - he exploits the day before weigh in rule like no one I've seen previously. I don't imagine he does that by drinking water and eating a few meals.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 7:52 am

GGG v Lemieux 150,000
Alvarez v Khan 600,000

I suppose Brook had nothing to do with 20,000 at the o2...

Give it a rest...

Alvarez had 51,000 in Texas..

More than the Macklin,Murray, Monroe and Geale attendances probably put together..

He's not PPV...end of story..

He's not even worth 10 million..

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 8:06 am

Now we know why Canelo won't be fighting at 54 again:

http://www.boxingnewsresults.com/2016/09/canelo-inherits-new-problem-demetrius-andrade/

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