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Canelo/Oscar's cunning plan...

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sun 18 Sep 2016, 9:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

So now Canelo has won the WBO junior middleweight champion, according to the WBO rules, Canelo can get an immediate title shot at WBO middleweight titleholder Billy Joe Saunders - provided Canelo openly declares he is moving up to 160.

Everyone knows Gennady Golovkin is desperate to clean up the alphabet titles and is very eager to face Saunders next.

So could Golden Boy scupper GGG's plans again?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 12:56 pm

Jessica J.....

You disappoint me I thought you were a Beethoven 5th kind of guy..

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 1:02 pm

i was just trying to be down with the kids. Whatever that means.

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Post by Guest on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 1:38 pm

Rowley wrote:I meant worth in the sense of what a realistic purse would be for this fight Adam. If the estimates billing it as a 100m fight are correct I was working on the theory GGG must be worth 30% of that number.
Unfortunately this puts your "would you work for a third of your worth" question into a slightly skewed context. £$30million is a nice chunk of change, but then again, so is $10million.

Like Eddie Murphy said when talking about how Johnny Carson's wife wanted half his fortune, "You have $300million and someone wants half, you'll probably be ok. You earn $10k...you might have to kill somebody!"


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Post by Rowley on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 1:55 pm

Terms like eight figure purses are a classic promoters technique, they sound impressive and obviously ten million is not an insignificant amount of money but it is a soundbite. Warren used to do this all the time, his favourite was “we’ve offered him a career high purse” However neither of these take into account the myriad factors that make up a purse or that dictate how a purse should be determined. If a fight generates 11 million ten is a huge purse, if it generates 100 million it isn’t. That much is basic maths that does not change whichever fighter it may or may not relate to.

I don’t know how much the fight will generate, and in truth none of us do, but if 100 million is genuine, and promoted well who knows, then it would seem clear ten percent of that is a low ball offer. That is unless Canelo generates that against every opponent, and I’d like to think that even without evidence to confirm this most of us would be happy to concede he did not generate this against Liam Smith at the weekend.

If we agree this, then we must agree that Golovkin’s involvement in this fight allows Canelo to generate far more revenue than he does against lower tier opponents and as such he should get a purse that is reflective of this. Now if you want to argue that Canelo is the draw in this and as such should get the higher percentage I have no real issue with this, but I can’t accept a promoters soundbite is sufficient to either a, prove Canelo’s willingness to take this fight or b, to establish that Golovkin is not serious about wanting the fight.

I can see the argument that if GGG was that desperate to unify the division he would take the money, get the win and move onto other business but it is too simplistic a view for me. He will have promoters, managers, trainers who work for him, many of who will be on a percentage. As such if he accepts a low ball offer for himself he accepts a low ball offer for them and my original point remains, how many of us genuinely would agree to work for less than 30% of what we should realistically be getting? This money does not disappear into the ether or go to a local donkey sanctuary, it goes to someone else in the promotion. Why on earth would you allow someone to screw you over on significant amounts of money you are almost certainly entitled to for it to go into the pocket of someone else?

Personally for me this offer does not move things forward, Golden Boy have shown what is at best lukewarm commitment to making this fight. They had a chance when the WBC mandated it and showed such a lack of effort they even compelled the WBC to take action against a Mexican fighter, which is no mean feat. I see this offer for what it is, it’s an attempt to demonstrate a commitment to the fight that simply is not there and to shift some of the blame for it not happening onto GGG. I’d like to think that were they to put personalities aside most fans would see this for what it is. Unfortunately however this is fast becoming like the Mayweather vs Manny where the personal agendas being pushed by fans far supersede any ability to look at developments with any objectivity.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:02 pm

I wonder if Gennady's surname was Mayweather, would he get such support. Doubtful.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:12 pm

No one knows how much the fight will make...

But we do know PPV sales wise Canelo is four times more popular and he can get 51,000 fans into a stadium..Bet 8,000 tops saw the "Unification" against Lemieux..if that..

Rowley may want to look at the business angle..

Boxing is a business..

The pound for pound number 1 and 2 both fought on HBO non PPV and got 800,000 views...

If that doesn't tell you no one is interested...What does ??


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Post by milkyboy on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:18 pm

entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

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Post by Coxy001 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:22 pm

milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Rowley wrote:I'm curious how many of us in our working lives would agree to work or do your job for a third of what we're realistically worth?

Ask around the music section and come back and tell us..


here's what they said (some big Jessie J fans on the music board):

It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag
Ain't about the (uh) ch-ch-ching ch-ching
Ain't about the (yeah) bl-bling-bl-bling
Wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag (OK)

Sadly dancing doesn't pay the f**king bills each month!!!!!!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:25 pm

milkyboy wrote:entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

Speculation Milky..........Nobody knows how much the fight is worth.....

He got 7 million for a welter.................10 million for a jr midd doesn't sound so bad...

3 million tops for Degale ???...

He doesn't sell............Can you see Mayweather or Manny fighting in front of one man and his cat in Monte Carlo...

Get what your worth....Canelo is worth a lot more..

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:27 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Rowley wrote:I'm curious how many of us in our working lives would agree to work or do your job for a third of what we're realistically worth?

Ask around the music section and come back and tell us..


here's what they said (some big Jessie J fans on the music board):

It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag
Ain't about the (uh) ch-ch-ching ch-ching
Ain't about the (yeah) bl-bling-bl-bling
Wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag (OK)

Sadly dancing doesn't pay the f**king bills each month!!!!!!

say that to michael flatley

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

Speculation Milky..........Nobody knows how much the fight is worth.....

He got 7 million for a welter.................10 million for a jr midd doesn't sound so bad...

3 million tops for Degale ???...

He doesn't sell............Can you see Mayweather or Manny fighting in front of one man and his cat in Monte Carlo...

Get what your worth....Canelo is worth a lot more..

are you arguing with me when i'm generally agreeing with you Truss!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:32 pm

milkyboy wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Rowley wrote:I'm curious how many of us in our working lives would agree to work or do your job for a third of what we're realistically worth?

Ask around the music section and come back and tell us..


here's what they said (some big Jessie J fans on the music board):

It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag
Ain't about the (uh) ch-ch-ching ch-ching
Ain't about the (yeah) bl-bling-bl-bling
Wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag (OK)

Sadly dancing doesn't pay the f**king bills each month!!!!!!

say that to michael flatley

Don't let Paulie Malignaggi hear you say that..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:35 pm

milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

Speculation Milky..........Nobody knows how much the fight is worth.....

He got 7 million for a welter.................10 million for a jr midd doesn't sound so bad...

3 million tops for Degale ???...

He doesn't sell............Can you see Mayweather or Manny fighting in front of one man and his cat in Monte Carlo...

Get what your worth....Canelo is worth a lot more..

are you arguing with me when i'm generally agreeing with you Truss!

I can't win any at home.....So I'm doing my best to manufacture a win on here......

Hope you don't mind Cool

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:40 pm

I agree with Milky. GGG should call his bluff then. Sure if he is as good as everyone thinks, he will wipe the floor with Canelo, then go onto other big pay days.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:entirely understand your point in a fair world Rowley... but

lets take the 10m of 100m at face value.

can GGG get 10m elsewehere? No

Can alvarez get 90m elsewhere? No... but he recognises its potentially a 'career ending/pay day ending/reputation finishing' fight. It might be his last big pay day. So his alternative is he can take say 5m twice a year to fight stiffs.

In economic terms its opportunity cost.

Golovkins team wanted the a-side of the purse and a catchweight to fight ward, they play the game and they know the score like everyone else. So is 10m an insult in many respects? Yes it is, but while it's weasley, I'd say its quite well judged by Oscar.  He's saying, we'll take the risk on how well it sells, (knowing it's huge)... you get by far your biggest pay day.

If golovkin turns it down, he's the guy who turned down a career high purse for the fight he wants more than any other. They can spin him as the ducker. If golovkin takes it, canelo earns so much it doesn't matter if he never fights again.

I'll go down the gym and fight alvarez for $10m. I'd earn $10m a second... maybe $5m, canelo is a slow starter. Golovkin should call his bluff and see if they're serious.

Speculation Milky..........Nobody knows how much the fight is worth.....

He got 7 million for a welter.................10 million for a jr midd doesn't sound so bad...

3 million tops for Degale ???...

He doesn't sell............Can you see Mayweather or Manny fighting in front of one man and his cat in Monte Carlo...

Get what your worth....Canelo is worth a lot more..

are you arguing with me when i'm generally agreeing with you Truss!

I can't win any at home.....So I'm doing my best to manufacture a win on here......

Hope you don't mind Cool

Not in the slightest. i'm used to people losing an argument and claiming a win on here, but never had anyone essentially ask politely to be given a win. So you have yourself a big fat juicy win Truss.

Sit on the sofa with a beer later, shut yourself off from the incessant nagging going on around you and wallow in the glory of a well constructed argument delivered with crushing efficiency.

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Post by Rowley on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 2:51 pm

I am a fan first and foremost. I will always view events through that prism, as it is the only perspective I really have. I have no financial interest in this fight, I’m certainly not involved in promoting it and to the best of my knowledge I am not a beneficiary on either fighters wills, as such what each fighter may make is of minimal interest to me.

What is of interest is seeing fights that excite me and seeing unified champions in divisions. Given this if, in my opinion, I see people involved in potential fights putting up obstacles to that fight happening I will call them on it. My own view is Oscar’s offer is a soundbite, he knows the game, he knows Canelo has enough rabid Mexican fans and this is enough of a divisive issue that sufficient fans will take the bait and declare GGG a ducker that the offer will have served its purpose.

If the fight only goes on to generate nine million GGG is laughing, he has screwed Oscar out of a million, but Oscar is not new to this game, he will have figures on PPV buys, overseas TV sales, ticket sales, closed circuit etc. for every fight he has promoted, the same goes for HBO. Based on these figures he will be able to make a very good estimate of exactly how much this fight will generate before a PPV has been bought, that is how businesses work.

Personally, post Smith I would have been much happier if, rather than throwing out such a soundbite, he had said we want Golovkin next, we’re going to sit down with HBO and Loeffer as soon as possible and hopefully we can get that fight done” That is how fights are negotiated in the real world, they are done with all the concerned parties sat round a table trying to make a deal, not in 140 characters on twitter. As with Mayweather and Pacquiao when promoters start discussing the terms of a fight in the public domain it is normally an indication they are more interested in winning a PR war than making a fight.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 3:03 pm

We are all fans Rowley and I get your position.......But we are our own worst enemies...

I paid for GGG v Brook knowing it was a mismatch.......Joshua does great numbers (Haven't paid for him yet)....So assets are naturally being protected..........

If Warren hadn't have lost Hatton he'd probably be defending his WBU for the 51st time this weekend...and people would buy it...

51,000 for Liam Smith............Tells it all..

Harder to do this in 80s with just the WBA and WBC days.... but now you have 4 titles.........Look at Bellew..Never a world champ....

Hard time to be a fan..............But Canelo doesn't need GGG.....He sells whoever he fights...and he has options..

Canelo has all the cards and as Milky says 10 million is a lot of dough..

The fans are the only ones who will end this madness.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 3:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We are all fans Rowley and I get your position.......But we are our own worst enemies...

I paid for GGG v Brook knowing it was a mismatch.......Joshua does great numbers (Haven't paid for him yet)....So assets are naturally being protected..........

If Warren hadn't have lost Hatton he'd probably be defending his WBU for the 51st time this weekend...and people would buy it...

51,000 for Liam Smith............Tells it all..

Harder to do this in 80s with just the WBA and WBC days.... but now you have 4 titles.........Look at Bellew..Never a world champ....

Hard time to be a fan..............But Canelo doesn't need GGG.....He sells whoever he fights...and he has options..

Canelo has all the cards and as Milky says 10 million is a lot of dough..

The fans are the only ones who will end this madness.

A very good post and true.

I think people forget the prize element to 'prize fighting.'

whether we like it or not, Canelo can get big bucks fighting anyone and he is still very young. GGG isn't as big a draw and is in his mid 30's already.

If I was GGG, I would take the fight. If he beats Canelo silly, he will really look like a superstar and I believe many from the Sates will buy his future fights.

If he wins a close fight, or is robbed, he can get a lot more for a rematch.


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Post by Coxy001 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 3:33 pm

Alvarez hasn't broken the 1mill PPVs outside of when he fought FMJ. Think he did 900k against a shell of Cotto... To suggest that this figure wouldn't double if Canelo fought GGG is horse crap, just like suggesting GGG isn't a big draw is horse crap as there is not one person that would generate the hype, money and money that GGG vs Canelo would.

Canelo vs blah = <1mill PPVs
Canelo vs GGG = >1.8m PPVs


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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 3:41 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Alvarez hasn't broken the 1mill PPVs outside of when he fought FMJ. Think he did 900k against a shell of Cotto... To suggest that this figure wouldn't double if Canelo fought GGG is horse crap, just like suggesting GGG isn't a big draw is horse crap as there is not one person that would generate the hype, money and money that GGG vs Canelo would.

Canelo vs blah = <1mill PPVs
Canelo vs GGG = >1.8m PPVs


I don't think it would do 1.8m buys. McGregor is a lot more popular than both and I don't think he has passed that figure.

Only Floyd is capable of that number, with the right opponent.

I think Canelo vs GGG would do around 1.2m, which would still be very big.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:05 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Alvarez hasn't broken the 1mill PPVs outside of when he fought FMJ. Think he did 900k against a shell of Cotto... To suggest that this figure wouldn't double if Canelo fought GGG is horse crap, just like suggesting GGG isn't a big draw is horse crap as there is not one person that would generate the hype, money and money that GGG vs Canelo would.

Canelo vs blah = <1mill PPVs
Canelo vs GGG = >1.8m PPVs


Relevancy.......

In comparison to GGG how does he do ??....I bring five times more money to the table.....I deserve five times more of the dough...

51,000 for Canelo v Smith
10,000 for GGG v Monroe...

833,000 non PPV v Brook with Gonzales chucked in too...HBO - 45 million subscribers..

Spence v Bundu got 6 million on ESPN............Which has 90 million...........

Tells you everything kiddo..

Whoa I'm kicking some butt today !! Wink

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Post by kingraf on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:18 pm

Yep his rating says it all.

GGG vs Wade = most watched fight on HBO this year.

GGG vs Brook = only 830k viewers. Wade is HBO's biggest regular cable boxer
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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:24 pm

AdamT wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
AdamT wrote:He will never fight Ward. His team haven't the stones. He would be schooled pretty badly.

If Ward was GGG...Some posters would be saying why fight Kovalev when you can fight Bute...

Got to laugh. .

Ward is very ambitious and wants to prove he is the best since Floyd. Hasn't lost a fight since he was 12 years old and fought some very good fighters.

Not the easiest on the eye, but a class talent. I think he will out point Kovalev.

Come on Adam. If Golovkin had faced a sum total of four fighters of the same calibre of opposition Ward has in the past three years would he be termed "very ambitious"?

Luckily for Ward, he's never been avoided. Golovkin would have killed for a middleweight Super Six involving Canelo.

I have no doubt that should Golovkin be afforded the opportunity to clean house at 160, he'd be happy to do the same at '68.

It's as if posters don't want Golovkin vs Canelo to happen.


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Post by kingraf on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:25 pm

On a serious note, up for debate how much more Canelo brings to the table. His PPV record as the A-side (ie sans Cotto, Mayweather) tops out at 600k (possibly) with two other fights at 300 350k and the Smith fight possibly doing GGG-Lemmy levels if twitter rumours are to be believed. That by my count makes him 400 000ish buy fighter. Also GGG got more upfront for his Brook fight than Canelo got for either Khan or Smith and with two more British fighters queued up for KOs, I think there is a fair question to be asked regarding who really needs who financially in the immediate future.
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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:Alvarez hasn't broken the 1mill PPVs outside of when he fought FMJ. Think he did 900k against a shell of Cotto... To suggest that this figure wouldn't double if Canelo fought GGG is horse crap, just like suggesting GGG isn't a big draw is horse crap as there is not one person that would generate the hype, money and money that GGG vs Canelo would.

Canelo vs blah = <1mill PPVs
Canelo vs GGG = >1.8m PPVs


Relevancy.......

In comparison to GGG how does he do ??....I bring five times more money to the table.....I deserve five times more of the dough...

51,000 for Canelo v Smith
10,000 for GGG v Monroe...

833,000 non PPV v Brook with Gonzales chucked in too...HBO - 45 million subscribers..

Spence v Bundu got 6 million on ESPN............Which has 90 million...........

Tells you everything kiddo..

Whoa I'm kicking some butt today !! Wink

Scheduling comes into play here: Spence vs Bundu was on NBC at prime time and scheduled to follow on from the Olympic basketball final.

Golovkin was a subscription channel in a late afternoon spot (not a great slot for viewing figures traditionally).

Comparing Canelo's best numbers at the gate to Golovkin's lowest of late (which was of course dependant on the number of actual seats in the venue) is as helpful as comparing apples and cow's jubblies.

Quite why you're trying to justify one fighter swerving another is baffling - other than that's what you spent the last five years doing with your mate.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:41 pm

Witherspoon v Bruno was at Wembley......That was HBO and primetime..

HBO aren't stupid.....They know a lemon when they see one..

Number 1 middle v Number 1 welter...........and it was non PPV.....

You can put lipstick on a pig......But it is still...........

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:45 pm

kingraf wrote:On a serious note, up for debate how much more Canelo brings to the table. His PPV record as the A-side (ie sans Cotto, Mayweather) tops out at 600k (possibly) with two other fights at 300 350k and the Smith fight possibly doing GGG-Lemmy levels if twitter  rumours are to be believed. That by my count makes him 400 000ish buy fighter. Also GGG got more upfront for his Brook fight than Canelo got for either Khan or Smith and with two more British fighters queued up for KOs, I think there is a fair question to be asked regarding who really needs who financially in the immediate future.

That is all the money he made from the Brook whereas Alvarez had PPV percentage and TV deals on top for the Khan and Smith fights. He's reported to have walked away with approximately $20mil all in all.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 4:50 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Witherspoon v Bruno was at Wembley......That was HBO and primetime..

HBO aren't stupid.....They know a lemon when they see one..

Number 1 middle v Number 1 welter...........and it was non PPV.....

You can put lipstick on a pig......But it is still...........

Fights from across the pond in an afternoon slot almost never go out on PPV (if one ever has) in the U.S. Froch vs Groves, Klitschko name any fight from the UK or Europe you fancy. Doesn't happen.

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Post by catchweight on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 6:23 pm

The mistake people are making is to even entertain the golden boy offer as real. Throw out some ballacks in the media and let fanw squabble over who is to blame. Its classis misdirection. Whats actually happening is tgat golden boy dont want the fight. People missing the point and arguing a side this, b side that, ppv numbers and so forth is exactly what they want. So it ends up that the guy being avoided gets lambasted while the team who dont want the fight hide behind baloney. Golden boy dont want the fight to happen. And they want as many people as possible blaming golovkin for that. Its obvious from everything they have done up to this point.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 6:57 pm

catchweight wrote:The mistake people are making is to even entertain the golden boy offer as real. Throw out some ballacks in the media and let fanw squabble over who is to blame. Its classis misdirection. Whats actually happening is tgat golden boy dont want the fight. People missing the point and arguing a side this, b side that, ppv numbers and so forth is exactly what they want. So it ends up that the guy being avoided gets lambasted while the team who dont want the fight hide behind baloney. Golden boy dont want the fight to happen. And they want as many people as possible blaming golovkin for that. Its obvious from everything they have done up to this point.

Mayweather vs Pacquiao all over again.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 6:59 pm

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see this fight if you don't, you're not a fan.

Is 60/40 a fair split?

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Post by catchweight on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 7:25 pm

hazharrison wrote:
catchweight wrote:The mistake people are making is to even entertain the golden boy offer as real. Throw out some ballacks in the media and let fanw squabble over who is to blame. Its classis misdirection. Whats actually happening is tgat golden boy dont want the fight. People missing the point and arguing a side this, b side that, ppv numbers and so forth is exactly what they want. So it ends up that the guy being avoided gets lambasted while the team who dont want the fight hide behind baloney. Golden boy dont want the fight to happen. And they want as many people as possible blaming golovkin for that. Its obvious from everything they have done up to this point.

Mayweather vs Pacquiao all over again.

Happens all the time. Haye had half the world convinced that the Klitschkos were running scared of him (even after it was him that pulled out of a signed fight), while he rode the ppv train to Audley-town and Ruiz-ville.

How many billions of words and minutes were wasted on the Mayweather v Pacquaio saga. Everything from purse splits to drug testing cut offs to lucky socks we discussed ad naseum while the next Victor Ortiz was lined up. No real interest in getting the fight done.

This Canelo / Golovkin thing has been more of the same.




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Post by hazharrison on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 10:09 pm

Hearing Canelo vs Smith tanked in terms of PPV numbers.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 12:24 am

hazharrison wrote:Hearing Canelo vs Smith tanked in terms of PPV numbers.

Does it matter ??..

Number 1 middle v number 1 welter... plus number 1 PPV = HBo non-PPV

51,000 Texas..

Argument over..

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Post by Pedro147 on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:01 am

Ok, argument over. Please close the thread.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:16 am

Ward had this to say about Golovkin.

“Triple G turned down a 50-50 fight. He said in 2017 is what he said. I’ve had people say put the e-mail out. I won’t do it, because it’s not that serious. I feel like my word should mean something. I can literally pull that [e-mail] up right now between Roc Nation and [Golovkin’s promoter] Tom Loeffler. The fight was offered 50-50. Every detail was 50-50, and we made him a conscious effort as a team to make him a 50-50 offer just so there was no wiggle room, 50-50, the weight and everything. ‘Oh, that’s great. I appreciate the offer. Maybe if the fight is still hot, we’ll do it in 2017,’” Ward said in explaining what was told to him by Team Golovkin. “We know what that means. But then they go on record and say the opposite. If they had kept quiet, it would have been fine, but they keep talking about it. So I’m going to be honest about what happened. They didn’t want the fight. It shouldn’t have took Kell Brook doing what he did to show people why they don’t want the fight. They can say whatever they want, but the reality is they didn’t want the fight. I think it would have been a great match-up for the fans. I think that fight should have happened before the [Sergey] Kovalev fight should have happened.”

Ward doesn't seem the type to lie or f..k about. GGG and his team want nothing to do with him.

Before anyone starts the excuses 'GGG is a Mw', his team claimed Ward was ducking the fight.

GGG was willing to fight old Froch at 168, but not Ward. Wonder why??

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:17 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:Hearing Canelo vs Smith tanked in terms of PPV numbers.

Does it matter ??..

Number 1 middle v number 1 welter... plus number 1 PPV = HBo non-PPV

51,000 Texas..

Argument over..

Well it does in the context of an argument over whether Canelo is a great draw, yes.

I personally couldn't give a flying frak who is more popular, only who is the best (Boyzone have probably sold more records than The Stone Roses).

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:28 am

What we need to establish is whether it's true Ward wanted tune ups because that statement by Ward says nothing about tune ups

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:32 am

Canelo gets circa 600k PPV buys versus Khan (well known in the States) and, apparently, under 100k buys versus unheard of Smith. Both fights primetime boxing slots.

GGG gets close to the upper end of that range versus not particularly well known or liked Brook in a non-prime time slot.

But yes, Canelo is a MASSIVE draw and GGG is a deadbeat.....because 50k Mexicans turned up to a stadium.

Bit like saying Froch is a bigger drawer than Mayweather because Mayweather only fought in front of 25k max whereas Froch did 80k at Wembley (in case you hadn't heard). Moronic analysis.

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:33 am

AdamT wrote:Ward had this to say about Golovkin.

“Triple G turned down a 50-50 fight. He said in 2017 is what he said. I’ve had people say put the e-mail out. I won’t do it, because it’s not that serious. I feel like my word should mean something. I can literally pull that [e-mail] up right now between Roc Nation and [Golovkin’s promoter] Tom Loeffler. The fight was offered 50-50. Every detail was 50-50, and we made him a conscious effort as a team to make him a 50-50 offer just so there was no wiggle room, 50-50, the weight and everything. ‘Oh, that’s great. I appreciate the offer. Maybe if the fight is still hot, we’ll do it in 2017,’” Ward said in explaining what was told to him by Team Golovkin. “We know what that means. But then they go on record and say the opposite. If they had kept quiet, it would have been fine, but they keep talking about it. So I’m going to be honest about what happened. They didn’t want the fight. It shouldn’t have took Kell Brook doing what he did to show people why they don’t want the fight. They can say whatever they want, but the reality is they didn’t want the fight. I think it would have been a great match-up for the fans. I think that fight should have happened before the [Sergey] Kovalev fight should have happened.”

Ward doesn't seem the type to lie or f..k about. GGG and his team want nothing to do with him.

Before anyone starts the excuses 'GGG is a Mw', his team claimed Ward was ducking the fight.

GGG was willing to fight old Froch at 168, but not Ward. Wonder why??

This is from the same "article":

"Ward says he likes the way Canelo’s promoter Oscar De La Hoya is guiding his career by moving to the Golovkin fight when it’s the right time. Ward brings up the example of how the Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao fight ended up making a lot more money by having it wait until the time was right to make the match-up.

Ward says that the boxing fans need to have more patience when it comes to fights that they’re waiting to see happen."

Yeah, thanks for that 'Dre.

Loeffler responded to the above in the LA Times.

The deal was a 50-50 split with an interim bout for each - an offer received hours after the Lemieux fight was signed. At this point, remember, Golovkin was the mandatory challenger to the winner of Cotto vs Canelo (before they turned tail and fled middleweight).

So the response was, lets get rid of Lemieux then Canelo/Cotto and then we'll fight.




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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:36 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Canelo gets circa 600k PPV buys versus Khan (well known in the States) and, apparently, under 100k buys versus unheard of Smith. Both fights primetime boxing slots.

GGG gets close to the upper end of that range versus not particularly well known or liked Brook in a non-prime time slot.

But yes, Canelo is a MASSIVE draw and GGG is a deadbeat.....because 50k Mexicans turned up to a stadium.

Bit like saying Froch is a bigger drawer than Mayweather because Mayweather only fought in front of 25k max whereas Froch did 80k at Wembley (in case you hadn't heard). Moronic analysis.

Exactly.

Quite why being a big draw is now more important than being the best fighter for some fans is astonishing. Another legacy of the Mayweather era.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:38 am

Do you guys really think GGG wants to get schooled and end the run of the terminator??

He will only fight Ward if money is huge. His team don't want a loss and the string of knock outs to end. He can't beat Ward.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:40 am

hazharrison wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Canelo gets circa 600k PPV buys versus Khan (well known in the States) and, apparently, under 100k buys versus unheard of Smith.  Both fights primetime boxing slots.

GGG gets close to the upper end of that range versus not particularly well known or liked Brook in a non-prime time slot.

But yes, Canelo is a MASSIVE draw and GGG is a deadbeat.....because 50k Mexicans turned up to a stadium.

Bit like saying Froch is a bigger drawer than Mayweather because Mayweather only fought in front of 25k max whereas Froch did 80k at Wembley (in case you hadn't heard). Moronic analysis.

Exactly.

Quite why being a big draw is now more important than being the best fighter for some fans is astonishing. Another legacy of the Mayweather era.

Put the boot into Mayweather again. Haz Mayweather's legacy is ten times that of GGG. Yeah he did have a lot of fights on his own terms after Oscar, but he fought some really good guys on the way up as well.

If Mayweather was a natural 160, he would beat all of GGG's opponents on the same night.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:41 am

Sounds like neither Ward nor Golovkin to blame then really

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:47 am

AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Canelo gets circa 600k PPV buys versus Khan (well known in the States) and, apparently, under 100k buys versus unheard of Smith.  Both fights primetime boxing slots.

GGG gets close to the upper end of that range versus not particularly well known or liked Brook in a non-prime time slot.

But yes, Canelo is a MASSIVE draw and GGG is a deadbeat.....because 50k Mexicans turned up to a stadium.

Bit like saying Froch is a bigger drawer than Mayweather because Mayweather only fought in front of 25k max whereas Froch did 80k at Wembley (in case you hadn't heard). Moronic analysis.

Exactly.

Quite why being a big draw is now more important than being the best fighter for some fans is astonishing. Another legacy of the Mayweather era.

Put the boot into Mayweather again. Haz Mayweather's legacy is ten times that of GGG. Yeah he did have a lot of fights on his own terms after Oscar, but he fought some really good guys on the way up as well.

If Mayweather was a natural 160, he would beat all of GGG's opponents on the same night.

And we could all argue that if Golovkin was a natural welterweight he'd punch holes in Ortiz, Guerrero, Hatton etc. but that's about as interesting as picking off a scab.

Like it or not, Mayweather has left a legacy where fights are left until the very last minute to "maximise revenue". That's why GBP are dragging their heels.


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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:50 am



Could GGG as 130lber step up and punch holes in them guys Haz??

Floyd didn't start as a Welterweight.

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:53 am

We did the ward golovkin thing to death on this thread gents. Some short memories

https://www.606v2.com/t63470-sanchez-we-never-asked-ward-for-catchweight

The only conclusions you can draw are:
- golovkin's team wanted it at 164
- abel sanchez is forgetful or a liar
- an offer was made by ward and turned down... how serious was it? Was it before or after golovkin signed for lemieux? Just depends on whose version of events you choose to believe

Reality is golovkin was hankering for the canelo fight, which is completely fair enough... and the right career move (well not with hindsight, but not his fault)  but his trainer looked a bit of a prat by mouthing off in the press about fighting anyone from 154-168, without mentioning 'if the money and timing and weight suit us'.

Which is my only beef with all this super-hero golovkin love in that goes on. He is avoided, and it's not easy for him to get the opponents for good money. But... his team play the game like everyone else. That's their job unfortunately, maximum money for minimum risk. Welcome to boxing.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:54 am

Your last paragraph should end the thread Milky.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 11:03 am

Yep

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 11:04 am

GGG poo pooed a Brook fight before Alvarez v Khan........Ridiculed that fight..

7 million later and Brook was a credible opponent.....

Why shouldn't we believe him...Rolling Eyes  

If Haz loves you...You can turn water in to wine and everything you say is true..

If Haz dislikes you.....Everything you ever did in your career gets trashed and you're a liar...

Problem is there is no middle ground..

32 yr old....."Hagler was past it when Leonard beat him"

37 yr old...."Mayweather v Maidana shows Mayweather isn't top 10"

1 of about 3,000 contradictions.. Cool

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