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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 28 Sep 2016, 10:25 am

First topic message reminder :

Actually Davie, they didn't fit yours (apologies; 'idiocy' is a bit strong). Your earlier comments were all about how he'd actually done something terrible/illegal i.e. told them how to get around 3rd party ownership (he didn't) with the possible implication that he'd been knowingly involved in it (no evidence of this), took £400k for dodgy seminars (he didn't and he said he'd have to clear it with the FA) etc. You wanted him to be a crook from the off.
You also claimed Ben and I said he was 'innocent' - we said no such thing.

You never took S_R's approach re. his position being untenable because he was England manager, the one thing he probably falls foul of. His comments re. Hodgson/Nevile were unfortunate, but this was a private conversation and, actually, big deal. Seriously, the next poor schmuck who takes this on should treat the media as they deserve.

There may well be more to this - we'll see. Until then, the only thing he's 'guilty' of is putting himself in a stupid position cf. the FA's comments re. FIFA etc and forcing the FA to ask him to fall on his sword. S_R's right with this; the FA had little choice really.
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Post by McLaren Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:14 pm

super

I don't think he is religious. It seems like a really poor attempt at making a Sasha Baron Cohen type character. It seems to be international news that some fckwit made a dumb ass comment on two bit youtube radio show.

He also seems to be best friends with Bill Maher, who is only marginally less of a fckwit.
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Post by super_realist Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:15 pm

He is Mac, look it up, or at least he pretends to be. I also don't think he's friends with Maher.

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Post by McLaren Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:18 pm

Super

I will take your word for it about his religiosity. I saw a clip of him on Real time and Maher seemed to find a lot of what Milo said to be agreeable.
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Post by super_realist Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:22 pm

I see Maher agree with a lot of people on a lot of subjects, such as Sam Harris, who loathes Milo, so there you go.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:45 pm

JAS wrote:
pedro wrote:There's a 2-1 wager on Shane Lowry doing the same thing..

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/39045017

Does anyone else think punishing the player here is a bit extreme? All the subs were on, he could not have played in the match or influenced the result (unless the look of a 23stone pie eating man is likely to distract the opposition) ffs the FA really needs help in digging its head out of its own ar5e!!

It's not about the result but the betting on pies. PR stunt gone wrong? Player insisted he didn't place a bet but it's clear he pre-planned it and it's being insinuated that others knew he was planning it and profited. It's all quite tawdry.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 22 Feb 2017, 1:14 pm

super_realist wrote:What do people think about the over-reaction of McIlroy playing golf with Trump?
Up to McIlroy. Personally, I wouldn't go near Trump if I was in his place and I think a little less of McIlroy for doing so.
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Post by super_realist Wed 22 Feb 2017, 1:15 pm

I think if Trump hadn't had such a presence in golf, then yes, it would be wise to avoid, but given McIlroy can't vote, hardly an endorsement for Trump.

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Post by hogie Wed 22 Feb 2017, 5:47 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
JAS wrote:
pedro wrote:There's a 2-1 wager on Shane Lowry doing the same thing..

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/39045017

Does anyone else think punishing the player here is a bit extreme? All the subs were on, he could not have played in the match or influenced the result (unless the look of a 23stone pie eating man is likely to distract the opposition) ffs the FA really needs help in digging its head out of its own ar5e!!

It's not about the result but the betting on pies. PR stunt gone wrong? Player insisted he didn't place a bet but it's clear he pre-planned it and it's being insinuated that others knew he was planning it and profited. It's all quite tawdry.

I think they should ban such stupid bets. They are absolutely nothing to do with sports and as soon as Wayne Shaw knows that there is a bet on whether he eats the pie or not he is kinda screwed, because he makes a very conscious decision as to who wins and who loses the bet.   Suppose his family had bet that he would not eat the pie. If he doesn’t eat one will he then be investigated?  I am fine with things like who wins the coin toss. How many corners in a half and that sort of thing.  But the “Does he eat the pie bet” does not end well for anyone except the bookies.

That said clearly Wayne Shaw was naïve at best.

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Post by JAS Wed 22 Feb 2017, 7:09 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:What do people think about the over-reaction of McIlroy playing golf with Trump?
Up to McIlroy. Personally, I wouldn't go near Trump if I was in his place and I think a little less of McIlroy for doing so.

Well...being a bit skint at the moment I'd do it, I'd want a substantial bet on it as well (no not that he would eat a pie or bomb Mexico during the round). He allegedly thinks he plays off 3? He'd therefore have to give me shots (more likely get me shot if I got to dormy early on the back 9) anyway, I'd take my chances and enjoy getting in his wig covered head!!

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Post by JAS Wed 22 Feb 2017, 7:17 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
JAS wrote:
pedro wrote:There's a 2-1 wager on Shane Lowry doing the same thing..

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/39045017

Does anyone else think punishing the player here is a bit extreme? All the subs were on, he could not have played in the match or influenced the result (unless the look of a 23stone pie eating man is likely to distract the opposition) ffs the FA really needs help in digging its head out of its own ar5e!!

It's not about the result but the betting on pies. PR stunt gone wrong? Player insisted he didn't place a bet but it's clear he pre-planned it and it's being insinuated that others knew he was planning it and profited. It's all quite tawdry.

It is indeed tawdry Ray, sadly symptomatic of football these days. With corruption and financial dirty dealings in the upper eschelons of the games governing bodies what kind of message does that send out to the rest of the game? Like it or lump it the betting industry and football are inextricably linked, it's quite ironic for a FIFA affiliate like the FA to take the high moral ground in dodgy financial dealings in football. What a bonkers world we live in these days.

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Post by McLaren Wed 22 Feb 2017, 7:46 pm

super_realist wrote:What do people think about the over-reaction of McIlroy playing golf with Trump?
Up to McIlroy. Personally, I wouldn't go near Trump if I was in his place and I think a little less of McIlroy for doing so. [/quote]


Very disappointing. I, possibly naively, thought McIlroy was a little more politically palatable than other golfers.
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:34 pm

Interesting that McIlroy claims he played the entire 18 with Trump, but Trump's staff say it was just a few holes. I know who I think is telling the porkies...
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Post by pedro Wed 22 Feb 2017, 11:31 pm

Hardly worse than taking appearance money from dictators and despots around the world.

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Post by JAS Thu 23 Feb 2017, 7:19 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:What do people think about the over-reaction of McIlroy playing golf with Trump?
Up to McIlroy. Personally, I wouldn't go near Trump if I was in his place and I think a little less of McIlroy for doing so.


Very disappointing. I, possibly naively, thought McIlroy was a little more politically palatable than other golfers.[/quote]

What? Like you don't think he'd go for fried chicken for the dinner the year after he wins the Masters :-o

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 23 Feb 2017, 8:16 am

pedro wrote:Hardly worse than taking appearance money from dictators and despots around the world.
Oh, I agree, but that's not exactly a great argument in favour of it is it?
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Post by beninho Thu 23 Feb 2017, 11:10 am

I like Rory, he comes across well in interviews and on these podcasts. I do not like Trump though.

But Trump has been involved in Golf for a long time, and I have no issues with Mcilroy playing a game of golf with him. He is after all the elected leader of the country he spends a lot of time in.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 25 Feb 2017, 1:49 pm

Sorry to see the death of Derek Ibbotson, one-time holder of the world mile record.
I see it got him an MBE fifty years later - such has the honours system currency become devalued.
Still waiting for Tony Jacklin to be knighted.

PS: Good trivia question:
Who ran the first four-minute mile?
Answer: Derek Ibbotson, EXACTLY four minutes!

PPS: No mention of his death on the BBC's web-site. Somehow I'm not surprised. Bloody northerner.

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Post by Diggers Sun 26 Feb 2017, 5:39 pm

This lad Gabbiadini is a bit of a find. Shades of Marco a few decades ago, Sunderland legend.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 26 Feb 2017, 6:03 pm

Sunderland need some more legends - Charlie Hurley & Stan Anderson were both in the team the first time I saw them! #whenmenweremen
Coincidentally vs Saints, in the FA Cup. Let's not mention the year . . . . .

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Post by westisbest Sun 26 Feb 2017, 7:10 pm

Diggers wrote:This lad Gabbiadini is a bit of a find. Shades of Marco a few decades ago, Sunderland legend.

Should have had a hatrick, never offside.
Shame that the linesman couldn't see that.

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Post by beninho Mon 27 Feb 2017, 9:14 am

Big club gets the benefit of a dodgy decision in a wembley cup final, is anyone surprised?

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 27 Feb 2017, 1:34 pm

ben,
The worst thing about it is, "Where's the outrage?".
(Though you know there would have been plenty of outrage if the boot had been on the other foot.)

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Post by JAS Mon 27 Feb 2017, 2:02 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:ben,
The worst thing about it is, "Where's the outrage?".
(Though you know there would have been plenty of outrage if the boot had been on the other foot.)

Indeed Kwini and to paraphrase a line or two from of of my favourite tunes..

And blind acceptance is a sign
Of stupid fools who stand in line

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Feb 2017, 2:17 pm

It happens to the big teams as well. Remember Nani getting sent of against Real and Fletcher missing the 09 CL final after a ridiculous decision to send him of against Arsenal in the semi's.
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Post by beninho Mon 27 Feb 2017, 2:29 pm

McLaren wrote:It happens to the big teams as well.  Remember Nani getting sent of against Real and Fletcher missing the 09 CL final after a ridiculous decision to send him of against Arsenal in the semi's.

Decisions made by European Refs who do not care about big teams though, very different.

I heard that Man Utd had scored 8/9 offside goals this season and had 5/6 ruled out as offside when they weren't!

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Feb 2017, 2:37 pm

This is all just cherry picking unless any of us have some decent data on what teams are officiated most accurately.
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Feb 2017, 2:41 pm

Do people still care about football as much as they used to or is it dropping off a bit?

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Post by beninho Mon 27 Feb 2017, 3:06 pm

I am growing out of love with football I have to admit.

Even supporting Wycombe, you have fans who have unrealistic expectations. You have players diving and cheating.

In the top leagues its even worse, players cannot be decent players they are either world class or sh&t, The hype is ridiculous.


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Post by beninho Mon 27 Feb 2017, 3:06 pm

McLaren wrote:This is all just cherry picking unless any of us have some decent data on what teams are officiated most accurately.

You honestly do not beleive that "bigger" teams get the rub of the green more often than not?

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Post by JAS Mon 27 Feb 2017, 3:11 pm

McLaren wrote:It happens to the big teams as well.  Remember Nani getting sent of against Real and Fletcher missing the 09 CL final after a ridiculous decision to send him of against Arsenal in the semi's.

When Man U play Real though...Who is the big team??


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Post by JAS Mon 27 Feb 2017, 3:15 pm

beninho wrote:
McLaren wrote:It happens to the big teams as well.  Remember Nani getting sent of against Real and Fletcher missing the 09 CL final after a ridiculous decision to send him of against Arsenal in the semi's.

Decisions made by European Refs who do not care about big teams though, very different.

I heard that Man Utd had scored 8/9 offside goals this season and had 5/6 ruled out as offside when they weren't!

I would say at European level it's even worse Beninho, it's just that our perception of "big team" may alter. For the avoidance of doubt in a European context that will mean the biggest TV revenue generator.

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Post by pedro Mon 27 Feb 2017, 3:45 pm

JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:It happens to the big teams as well.  Remember Nani getting sent of against Real and Fletcher missing the 09 CL final after a ridiculous decision to send him of against Arsenal in the semi's.

When Man U play Real though...Who is the big team??

The team playing at home.

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Post by puligny Mon 27 Feb 2017, 7:10 pm

Offside - we're not back to Stokes being offside in 76 surely? Let it go!

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Post by westisbest Mon 27 Feb 2017, 8:00 pm

super_realist wrote:Do people still care about football as much as they used to or is it dropping off a bit?

I've gone off football a fair bit over the years.
I'll watch as many Villa games as I can, either on tv or try to get to a game.
Don't have the interest to watch many other teams play.

The play acting is probably the most annoying thing that goes on for me.
Money has nothing to do with it for me, although it is crazy.
Footballers annoy me in general nowadays to, also managers.

The interest in general just isn't there for me as much now.

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Post by puligny Mon 27 Feb 2017, 8:56 pm

West - couldn't agree more. I stopped in 2005 when my club MUFC was bought out. Stubbornly not prepared to hand my cash to owners I did not agree with, notwithstanding that there had been some 'interesting' characters involved previously. I saw my first game in late 57 as a 5 yr old, and had season tickets for over 20 years.
Like you I was totally turned off by moaning and play acting of players and managers. Haven't watched a full game since, and don't miss it. I had watched my team all over the UK and Europe. Incidentally stopped going to England games years earlier as a result of the nasty atmosphere, and crowd picking on individual home players, which I genuinely was not used to at OT. Hey ho!

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Post by westisbest Mon 27 Feb 2017, 9:16 pm

That's the other thing for me is the fans and the violence that still goes on.

Having banter with the opposing fans in the ground or in the pub before or after is fine, but when it get to the violent stage it's poor.

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Post by Diggers Mon 27 Feb 2017, 9:48 pm

I've certainly lost a fair bit of interest, always want to know the results though and still enjoy watching the odd game (have the Leicester game on now, Liverpool are so flaky!).
My main gripe is that somehow finishing 4th trumps a cup win, even some fans and players seem to think it's s better option. I'd actually like Sunderland to go down this year, which is fortunate as they will, I find the Championship a far more interesting league.


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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Feb 2017, 10:13 pm

I don't think it helps when so many of the players (especially the British/English ones) are such arrogant, brainless, classless, scummy tossers.

I can't think of any other sport where the people taking part come across so badly.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 27 Feb 2017, 10:20 pm

Interesting subject isn't it?
Spent 20 years in the footie twilight zone with no coverage in the U.S.; then the internet and later the TV coverage opened it all up again for the past 15 years.
I pre-date puligny, taken to the Fratton Park "Paddock" to watch PFC thrash Arsenal 5 - 2. Where's a result like that when you need it?

But there were times when living in London & in Birmingham when I'd go to 2 or sometimes 3 games a week, especially during Cup Replay season.
Loved it, but I think it was the Crystal Palace chairman in the late 70's who sold his club (that was his first problem) and saw it go down the drain, and reckoned it was like seeing your daughter get hooked on drugs. Lots have got hooked on drugs since, and that was PFC in the Mandarich/Redknapp (etc) era, and am much more interested in them again now that they're back to basics, even if sadly so far down the Leagues.

The game has changed so much, but is it really better entertainment? Not so sure.

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Post by puligny Mon 27 Feb 2017, 10:44 pm

Kwini - I think it got to the point where skill level was immense, but dwarfed by fitness. Let me explain! Watching United mid to late 90s, much of the time they were pretty good, and frequently far superior to most opposition. If nothing else you could rely on opposition flagging in last 15 mins having chased shadows (allow me a little romanticising). Then it all changed and unless teams were clearly inferior (progressively less likely - see point on skill) there was simply no option to wear a team down. It became dull, and incidence of diving and other forms of cheating increased exponentially. For me it became a game of set piece battles (not literally corners free kicks etc) but areas of the pitch being mobbed. Hope I'm explaining that, but you'll let me know if it makes no sense!
I attended an FA meeting in South of England around 2000, which was discussing player behaviour, diving, 'professional fouls etc etc. I offered the opinion that referees should have the power, by rule change, to award a penalty for diving, abuse of officials, 'professional fouls' and remain convinced its the only way of regaining any sort of control. Every referee present agreed - nobody else said a word! It's funny, but the only participant I've never seen cheat is the referee (I know it's happened but I have never seen it in the flesh), but it's always the ref that gets the stick!

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Post by I'm never wrong Mon 27 Feb 2017, 11:07 pm

The Rugby Union rule of advancing 10 yards for back chat didn't last long, did it? My solution is draconian. Player back chats a referee, booked. Player dives, booked. Player gets in the way of a free kick, booked. Etc. Soon as a team loses more than X number of players due to sending offs they automatically lose the game 10-0. After a week, watch what happens if they stick to their guns.

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Post by puligny Mon 27 Feb 2017, 11:18 pm

INW - problem is losing player(s) changes the game but not necessarily the result. Could argue it spoils game for spectators, making one team overly defensive. I agree in principle, but finding something that works in football is difficult, which is why I thought just go to the extreme. Back chat referee, penalty against you. Dive to try a gain a penalty - penalty against you - explain that to your teammates, manager, let alone supporters. Either way something has to be done.

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Post by I'm never wrong Mon 27 Feb 2017, 11:21 pm

Yes, I agree it might spoil it for the spectators, but only for a match or two, then even footballers might get the message.

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Post by pedro Mon 27 Feb 2017, 11:22 pm

Players are already supposed to get booked when diving or standing in the way of free kick. But I also think it should be forbidden for anyone but the captain to talk to the ref. Too much moaning, complaining and f--- off-ing. It's embarassing for the game.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 27 Feb 2017, 11:29 pm

puligny,
First of all, congrats on watching the Busby Babes - appreciated much more in retrospect I'm sure! Never did get to see Duncan Edwards, but Arthur Hopcraft painted wonderful pictures of him, a true Football Man!

Imagine if you had 100 footie fans in a room, you'd get 100 different remedies.

Not sure about "diving", sometimes guys just fall over or slip, nothing wrong with that.

Two things tho':
The sooner they use video technology for offside the better, would be just as easy to implement as the goal-line video - the new rule has been good but so difficult to officiate, amazing the linos get it right as often as they do.
Why is handball defensively a bookable offence, or a red card, but not offensively? Bat the ball into the net with your hand? Silly boy, free kick. B0ll0cks, get the cards out.

Lots of gamesmanship I'd like to stamp out, but difficult to have hard and fast rules. Except for crowding the ref - cards again please.

Ex-players bringing their "attitude" and chips-on-shoulder to commentary and punditry don't help at all. Keep the good ones, get rid of the bad ones.

etc, etc.

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Post by puligny Mon 27 Feb 2017, 11:41 pm

Kwini - wish I could remember it, but dad and big bro told me I'd been, and I'm never going to turn it down. Charlton R best I've ever seen, and I've seen Cruyff, Beckenbaur, Maradona, Pele and Eusebio!

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 28 Feb 2017, 12:40 am

Don't know who I'd say my "best" was, and I've seen Pele, Cruyff and Charlton out of that lot, but of those I watched a lot, the 17-y-o version of Trevor Francis was very special, as was the young Liam Brady.
Who would I pay a lot of money to see now? No idea, but sad to say not many would be GB&I.

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Post by super_realist Tue 28 Feb 2017, 7:57 am

Pedro, you're probably right re the Captain. At present, there is absolutely no point in having a Captain other than to call the coin toss, other than that they do nothing. Every player should be a leader on the pitch and shouldn't have to look to a Captain.


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Post by MontysMerkin Tue 28 Feb 2017, 8:50 am

Football should bring in the sin bin. Hockey (field) has been doing it for quite a few years and it has transformed the attitude of the players. You can get a 5 or 10 minute green card for back chat. However I think because football is so slow in comparison losing the extra player may not make that much difference. Still think they need to do something though - football sucks. Also the new referral system has changed the game nicely. Umpires just ask referal? No? Then fook off. (although this only happens in the prem leagues and internationals)
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Post by pedro Tue 28 Feb 2017, 9:03 am

kwini, deliberate handball is always yellow. Not enforced so often though.

Some ideas:
Video refereeing should be used much more, both for offsides and gamesmanship. Each team should have one contest per half.

Abusing the ref should be yellow or red. 'Profanity' and gestures should be a yellow, both against refs and opponents. 'P-tain' and 'f-ck off' seem to be the more popular ones.

There are now 5 or 6 refs in a game, but there's a big difference in how involved they are. Sometimes you wonder if the refs behind goal only watch the goal line and not the game itself. Get all of them more involved.

And in general, bring in fully professional refs. No sense having school teachers or dentists potentially deciding multi billion tournaments.


Last edited by pedro on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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