Will Spence be next for Brook?

First topic message reminder :

Am sure some of us have been following on various outlets and social media platforms the increasingly tedious tale of the long mooted, but seemingly as unlikely as ever, fight between Brook and Khan. For those who have lives, hobbies or zero masochistic tendencies the latest comment from Khan is that Brook needs to fight Spence before fighting him. Putting aside the myriad things wrong with this statement from Amir, which would take months to pick apart,  it does suggest a fight between the two is as far or further away than was ever the case.
 
With the chances of the Khan fight apparently disappearing over the horizon there have been renewed calls for Brook to take care of his mandatory commitments and take on highly touted unbeaten American Errol Spence. I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with these calls. For one, with Garcia and Thurman committed to each other and Manny fighting someone called Jeff Horn on what appears to be a farewell tour Spence for me looks the best option available. Furthermore Spence is his mandatory, as such he has earned the right to be accommodated. Whilst boxing and the vagaries of the governing bodies rarely, if ever, make sense, the guy who has climbed to the top of the rankings being given a shot is or should be cast in stone. It’s the right thing to happen and should happen, especially when the governing bodies actually manage to rank the best contender in the division as the best contender in the division.
 
What seems really disappointing is Matchroom and Hearn seem really lukewarm about this fight. There is a definite irony in that when Dan and Bizier were his mandatories they had to be accommodated, Hearn’s hands were tied by the governing body and so on and so forth, but the minute the mandatory is a guy who actually has a chance he can seemingly be ignored and negotiations can be opened with anyone and everyone. It all smacks ever so slightly that Hearn’s sole endeavour currently is to secure enough of a name that he can avoid Spence and enough people will say, how can you accuse him of fighting Spence, when he is fighting X and has just fought Golovkin. If one was to be a conspiracy theorist you could argue the foundations for a similar defence are being laid  for Bellew in fighting Haye, when Breidis is in waiting as his mandatory.
 
I have seen a lot of people arguing online there is no money in Spence, but I am not convinced this is the case. Obviously he is not as big a name as GGG, but as a mandatory the governing body set his purse percentage, so he is sure as hell a lot cheaper to get here than Golovkin was. Also, it’s a good fight, might be the idealist in me but I still believe there is a market for those.  We all have our various views on Sky and Hearn but there is no denying they are a slick operation, they have huge marketing budgets, multiple dedicated sports channels and common ownership with some of the biggest circulation papers in the UK. What this all means is if they want to build Spence’s profile and increase public awareness of his name and his abilities they can. When you have managed to convince people the likes of Molina and Martin are credible opponents convincing people that someone of genuine ability is credible is surely not beyond your capabilities.  Also, outside of Manny and Khan are there any other fighters at welter who represent a huge step up in revenues? I personally have my doubts.
 
My own view, which I dearly hope is wrong is if they can’t secure Khan or a Bradley type they will shift Brook to 154. They will do so claiming they can no longer make welter and take on a limited challenge, which will be justified on the basis of testing the water, all in the hope that they will get the call to be next port of call in Manny’s farewell tour. Disappointing if so, but listening to Hearn when the subject of Spence comes up I do get the impression he is desperately seeking a way out of the fight that still allows him and Kell to retain a modicum of credibility.

I'll pay 17 stones for Jack v GGG...or Degale v GGG..Only 8 pounds..

But 130 pound champs Mayweather/Manny are losers when they don't fight 154 pounders..

"He doesn't speak English so he's a real fighter"

What about the 3 gimmes Brook had before?? I like Brook but cannot defend dumping the belt but staying at WW unless it's Khan. Which will be hard to make anyway as they'll find it hard to agree a split. Yeah he moved up and did himself no harm reputation wise but going back and dropping your belt as you're scared you might lose and not get a big payday after iseverything against sport should represent. Business or not it's cowardly and essentially ripping off fans. Would love to see him smash Khan but not going about it this way. And like I said I think it's Hearn behind this.

Lets see what their next move is. Matchroom clearly dont like the Spence fight, but thats not to say they wont take it given the position they are in.

Their are not many gimmes going up to 154 lbs. Its a bit of an ugly duckling club. I cant see why the likes of the Charlos, Trout, Andrade, Lara etc are going to appeal to Matchroom anymore than Spence. At least at 147lbs Brook is huge at the weight and commands the champions entitlements. Spence is probably a more lucrative and less dangerous fight than most of the 154 champions.

Matchroom already have 2 ppv shows set for the first quarter of 2017 which are almost certainly going to be big hits. With that in mind they may feel more bullish about another ppv with Brook against a top opponent rather than trying to mug people off with a stiff.Or it could have the opposite efect and make them wary having too many ppv is quick succession and risk diluting. Im not sure how they will analyse that. Clearly if the opppnent was Khan, they would have no problem with three rapid fire ppv events. But would they try and flog Brook against a Jo Jo Dan? I would hope not. 2017 is likely to be more compettive on the ppv front with boxnations new deal and other tv networks gaining interest. Not neccessarily a good thing for fans as the number of ppv events are likely to increase but hopefully that will mean higher standards for the ppv quality. The last couple of years the Sky /Matchroom monopoly have taken the p1ss with the kind of cards they have been able to push as ppv. 2017 can only get better. Hopefully the likes of Brook and Joshua have left the pointless match ups behind for good now.

Then there is Brook himself. Clearly Khan is the fight he wants. But if he is lukewarm about getting up for a real challenger like Spence, then dropping the belt to fight a push over is hardly anymore inspiring. The Golovkin fight was Brooks arrival at the big time. I dont think he will want to go back to the crap matches and smaller pay days. Capiltalise on that. Take the risk. Dont drop the belt and become Khans noisy shadow.

catchweight wrote:Lets see what their next move is. Matchroom clearly dont like the Spence fight, but thats not to say they wont take it given the position they are in.

Their are not many gimmes going up to 154 lbs. Its a bit of an ugly duckling club. I cant see why the likes of the Charlos, Trout, Andrade, Lara etc are going to appeal to Matchroom anymore than Spence. At least at 147lbs Brook is huge at the weight and commands the champions entitlements. Spence is probably a more lucrative and less dangerous fight than most of the 154 champions.

Matchroom already have 2 ppv shows set for the first quarter of 2017 which are almost certainly going to be big hits. With that in mind they may feel more bullish about another ppv with Brook against a top opponent rather than trying to mug people off with a stiff.Or it could have the opposite efect and make them wary having too many ppv is quick succession and risk diluting. Im not sure how they will analyse that. Clearly if the opppnent was Khan, they would have no problem with three rapid fire ppv events. But would they try and flog Brook against a Jo Jo Dan? I would hope not. 2017 is likely to be more compettive on the ppv front with boxnations new deal and other tv networks gaining interest. Not neccessarily a good thing for fans as the number of ppv events are likely to increase but hopefully that will mean higher standards for the ppv quality. The last couple of years the Sky /Matchroom monopoly have taken the p1ss with the kind of cards they have been able to push as ppv. 2017 can only get better. Hopefully the likes of Brook and Joshua have left the pointless match ups behind for good now.

Then there is Brook himself. Clearly Khan is the fight he wants. But if he is lukewarm about getting up for a real challenger like Spence, then dropping the belt to fight a push over is hardly anymore inspiring. The Golovkin fight was Brooks arrival at the big time. I dont think he will want to go back to the crap matches and smaller pay days. Capiltalise on that. Take the risk. Dont drop the belt and become Khans noisy shadow.

Good post I agree with this, what sticks in my craw is the baloney coming Brook himself "The fans don't know who Spence is" excuse me, yes your casual fan may not be familiar with him but every boxing fan with a moderate interest will know of Spence and his abilities. Brook also mentions "I can't get motivated by another mandatory" well sorry Kell we heard it for months from yourself when you were mandatory how a hungry young lion deserves his chance - the pendulum has swung and its time to step up. I'm sick to the back teeth of the Khan negotiations - if this isn't happening I fail to see what Brook is going to do.

Cheers, Rodders

Not so much a sport anymore more of a business nowadays where fighters pick and choose who they fight seems like boxing is the only sport where you can bypass a main rival Brook has unfinished business at 47 in the eyes of many fans he's doing things in the wrong order if he vacates now by all means vacate after he's dealt with Spence though

I'll just throw this one out there because fans need the game to be more competitive

How about a rule change across the board?

When a fighter vacates he has to pay 25% of his earnings for his next three fights to the fighter he vacated to..

Something surely has to be done with all these belts and all this vacating which is ruining the sport seems like only about three or four 50/50's a year these days at world level it's not good enough

Step up like who Cherrypicker-Ward ??..........Who cleaned out 168 and has been abused ever since getting a close decision against the number 1 175 pounder.....

Mayweather fought the number 3 at the time P4P Manny Pac and one GGG loving idiot wrote

"It's not worth watching Mayweather is 3/1"

Brook has just fought the World number 1 and now you want him to step up ??..

I wouldn't blame Brook for fighting all stiffs from now on.....Because unless you're from an old communist Country you don't get credit for anything !!.

I think this whole thing is a joke now to be honest. I was a big critic of Brooks but he gained my respect doing what he did against GGG. I know he did it for the money, but it still took balls and although the outcome was as expected, he gave a good account of himself in my opinion. Showed he has a big big chin, has heart, and will trade with a very dangerous puncher.

However, all this garbage about nobody knows Spence, can't get up for him blah blah blah, ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. Boxing fans have been waiting for this one for a while now. Lets get it right, nobody knew Jo Jo Dan and nobody knew Kevin Bizier, but we DO know Spence. They made zero noise about weight concerns for the Dan, Gavin and Bizier fights. But now all of a sudden Kell is killing himself to make the weight. Well why has he been campaigning there then? Why can he make it for Khan but not for Spence?

What happens if he vacates now and takes a fight at 154, then the Khan fight comes along later in the year at 147? He would still take that even after fighting at 160 followed by 154? JOKE!

Like I've said before, he was laid up after being stabbed but still managed to come back down to 147, now, years later he moved up to 160 and he can STILL get back down to 147 for Khan even after putting the weight on. So it's all BS. They don't want the Spence fight because if they lose they have no bargaining power for Khan and no more world title and unbeaten WW status. Eddie Hearn is all about risk management and as soon as a decent mandatory has presented themselves they want to dissapear.

Personally I'd rather see him in with Spence than Khan, Khan is a has been in my opinion. He puts himself in the Elite bracket which he isn't. His record is patchy, suffered multiple brutal KO's at various weights, and for somebody thats only 30 he has spent so much of his peak barely active. Amir Khan is literally just a name these days. He has no chance against Brook.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Step up like who Cherrypicker-Ward ??..........Who cleaned out 168 and has been abused ever since getting a close decision against the number 1 175 pounder.....

Mayweather fought the number 3 at the time P4P Manny Pac and one GGG loving idiot wrote

"It's not worth watching Mayweather is 3/1"

Brook has just fought the World number 1 and now you want him to step up ??..

I wouldn't blame Brook for fighting all stiffs from now on.....Because unless you're from an old communist Country you don't get credit for anything !!.

You must be on another planet. Wouldn't blame Brook for fighting stiffs from now on? That's all he was doing prior to taking his beating off GGG. Do you even like boxing?

And lets get it right, Trussman. Brook stepped up to fight the 'world number 1' because it was a risk free payday (in terms of boxing status, obviously there were health risks as there are in any boxing match). Lets all be honest about that. Apparently Brook still makes more fighting Khan with a 30/70 split than he did fighting GGG. They are doing nothing but chasing the money now. He will go down as a very forgettable champion at 147 should he vacate, very forgettable.

Forgettable?

He won't even be a footnote..

Pressure all on Brook right now but beat Spence and then he won't come over as the obsessive money-chasing weirdo

He's a real 47 champion with the Spence win and the pressure's all on Khan. Khan will presumably lose the last vestiges of his credibility if he then continues to duck

Brook should just take the Spence fight, if he wins he makes 'Queen Kardashian' look even more ridiculous if he ducks Brook

If he can't make the weight anymore, then vacate, but obviously Khan will use that as an excuse to avoid the fight also

Brook calling Khan a ducker?

Surely Kell must see the irony

If Brook ditches the belt he loses any chance of getting a bigger % of the purse against Khan. Realistically Brook's best hope against Khan is a 40/60 split if he holds a belt. Without the belt Brook offers nothing.

The weight thing is bs because the first reason they gave was because Kell couldn't get up for Spence

Like Kell has five or six hofer's on his record..

Let's have it real, in world terms he's got only one single win on his record

Losing to Golovkin doesn't elevate you to a status where you can't get up for Spence surely

EX7EY wrote:And lets get it right, Trussman. Brook stepped up to fight the 'world number 1' because it was a risk free payday (in terms of boxing status, obviously there were health risks as there are in any boxing match). Lets all be honest about that. Apparently Brook still makes more fighting Khan with a 30/70 split than he did fighting GGG. They are doing nothing but chasing the money now. He will go down as a very forgettable champion at 147 should he vacate, very forgettable.

Risk free payday.

Listen to yourself...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

EX7EY wrote:And lets get it right, Trussman. Brook stepped up to fight the 'world number 1' because it was a risk free payday (in terms of boxing status, obviously there were health risks as there are in any boxing match). Lets all be honest about that. Apparently Brook still makes more fighting Khan with a 30/70 split than he did fighting GGG. They are doing nothing but chasing the money now. He will go down as a very forgettable champion at 147 should he vacate, very forgettable.

Risk free payday.

Listen to yourself...

Please correct me, Truss. By all means.

A one line rebuttal without substance doesn;t really offer much to the discussion. Although saaying that, neither did your other paragraphs on the matter I joke, of course.

In terms of Brooks stature and worth in boxing, there was MINIMAL risk. Please tell me what the risks were, and Im not talking about the physical side, purely to his boxing status. He earned a career high payday without risking his title and he actully gained more press and recognition for taking his beats off GGG than he has for anything else he has acheived in boxing, including his only notable vistory against Porter.

The physical risks are far greater than anything, they are the only risks that really matter.

I don't think moving up two weights and being a 6/1 underdog against the World number 1 ...equates to the usual health risks.."As there are in any boxing match".

Sorry...

I'm not dismissing the physical risks. I'm talking about purely from a status perspective

Commercial risk is clearly the overwhelming driving factor in boxing.

catchweight wrote:Commercial risk is clearly the overwhelming driving factor in boxing.

Exactly!

Who said it wasn't..

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/brook-spence-showdown-works-392913

Looks interesting. Love how they've mis-spelt Hearn as "Heard" here's hoping that Kell defends rather than drops the belt. Could be a cracker of a fight.

Hearing Cotto could be in play - from Brook's perspective, they should move heaven and earth to make that fight (and take Spence afterwards).

[quote="TRUSSMAN66"]Step up like who Cherrypicker-Ward ??..........Who cleaned out 168 and has been abused ever since getting a close decision against the number 1 175 pounder.....

Mayweather fought the number 3 at the time P4P Manny Pac and one GGG loving idiot wrote

"It's not worth watching Mayweather is 3/1"

[quote]

Or: Mayweather vs Pacquaio won't be a great fight (proven to be correct) and Pacquiao is no longer viewed as a great challenge (as reflected in Mayweather's odds of 1-to-3).

But, you know, I'm not trying to get in the way of 606 Fake (Ancient) News.

EX7EY wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

EX7EY wrote:And lets get it right, Trussman. Brook stepped up to fight the 'world number 1' because it was a risk free payday (in terms of boxing status, obviously there were health risks as there are in any boxing match). Lets all be honest about that. Apparently Brook still makes more fighting Khan with a 30/70 split than he did fighting GGG. They are doing nothing but chasing the money now. He will go down as a very forgettable champion at 147 should he vacate, very forgettable.

Risk free payday.

Listen to yourself...

Please correct me, Truss. By all means.

A one line rebuttal without substance doesn;t really offer much to the discussion. Although saaying that, neither did your other paragraphs on the matter I joke, of course.

In terms of Brooks stature and worth in boxing, there was MINIMAL risk. Please tell me what the risks were, and Im not talking about the physical side, purely to his boxing status. He earned a career high payday without risking his title and he actully gained more press and recognition for taking his beats off GGG than he has for anything else he has acheived in boxing, including his only notable vistory against Porter.

Sounds like it is Spence which amazes me..

60/40 at best..and his first fight with that eye....For someone with options in an age where titles mean bo diddly it's admirable at best ....foolhardy at worst..

Morning Haz..

It is sounding like spence, which is great news for boxing fans. A proper live fight. You shouldn't have to give credit for fighting mandatories but in this instance, if it's signed, it's a big thumbs up to brook.

I think everyone will be very happy to see this fight Spence looks very hittable we get the Brook from the Porter fight and Spence has got his work cut out. We don't know how good Spence is but we know Floyd rates him but Floyd was way off with Dawson

milkyboy wrote:It is sounding like spence, which is great news for boxing fans. A proper live fight. You shouldn't have to give credit for fighting mandatories but in this instance, if it's signed, it's a big thumbs up to brook.

Very true...........

This fight Could be the beginning of the end for Brook....Or a Calzaghe-Lacy victory that catapults him into the front row of the sport..

Intriguing for sure..

Really pleased this looks like happening and a tough one to call. I'm leaning towards Brook KO as he has shown he takes a shot, hits pretty hard and you can get to Spence. We don't know though how boiling back down to WW will affect him. I sure as hell won't put money on it and won't be that surprised with any outcome.

Still don't think Hearn fancies this. Asking for an extra week makes me think he is trying to get Brook every advantage possible. Bet Spence gets a nice big cheque to fight over here and fair enough.

If this fight goes ahead ill be 1) Excited 2) Impressed that Brook has taken it!!

Great fight for boxing

Brook.. 4/5..... Spence... Evens...

'Pickem' in all but name...

Thought Brook v Porter was close......and that is Brook's best win.....

Spence to me "looks" a classier act than Porter.....but Bundu and Algieri aren't in the same league as Porter so we can't be too sure how good he is...

Worried about that eye though.........So Spence TKO 8...

Think this fights ends with Spence pounding that surgically repaired eye until the doctor pulls Brook out. Rumours that Brook struggling to make 147. Spence looks to be the hungry young lion

Yeh lots of unknowns.
- How does brook respond to the ggg defeat physically and mentally. I can see an argument for it diminishing him, but also an argument that he took a Barage of blows from a huge hitting middleweight and gave a good account of himself.
- how does he cope with the weight drop, tight at the weight anyway and many find that the step down after going up is tough.
- just how good is spence? Looked the real deal against bundu and Algieri... but then porter looked like prime Tyson against Paulie. How will he fare under fire himself?
- brook against southpaws... wasn't exactly troubled by Gavin and donut Dan... but they're hardly a benchmark.

Can see why people think it's a pickem.

Never bought into the Porter- Tyson crap....Looked more like the Nigel Benn type that is a b**ch to beat but offers plenty of openings..Spence is more gifted but is he as tough ??..

Biggs...HIlton and even your very own Paul Hodkinson who battled Villasana stoically are examples of when you get eye trouble it only gets worse..

Helluva fight to test it on.....But yes I agree it is a very psychologically testing fight for Brook...He has to be worried about it....It's human nature.

Another baffling piece of promoting from Hearn. Spence is a more difficult opponent than either Khan or Cotto - with far less financial upside.

If VADA aren't involved, I'll take Spence in this one.

Just silly and cheap..

He doesn't fight for Mayweather does he ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never bought into the Porter- Tyson crap....Looked more like the Nigel Benn type that is a b**ch to beat but offers plenty of openings..Spence is more gifted but is he as tough ??..

Biggs...HIlton and even your very own Paul Hodkinson who battled Villasana stoically are examples of when you get eye trouble it only gets worse..

Helluva fight to test it on.....But yes I agree it is a very psychologically testing fight for Brook...He has to be worried about it....It's human nature.

Didn't mean he was a Tyson clone truss... it was more a reference to how he ripped through and destroyed a previously tough as boots opponent. Lacy Reid would be another example of a guy's rep getting built up off one destruction. Spence has done it twice now and looked damn good doing so, so he definitely looks the part. Really hope this one happens.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Just silly and cheap..

He doesn't fight for Mayweather does he ??

Spence fights for Haymon doesn't he?

milkyboy wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never bought into the Porter- Tyson crap....Looked more like the Nigel Benn type that is a b**ch to beat but offers plenty of openings..Spence is more gifted but is he as tough ??..

Biggs...HIlton and even your very own Paul Hodkinson who battled Villasana stoically are examples of when you get eye trouble it only gets worse..

Helluva fight to test it on.....But yes I agree it is a very psychologically testing fight for Brook...He has to be worried about it....It's human nature.

Didn't mean he was a Tyson clone truss... it was more a reference to how he ripped through and destroyed a previously tough as boots opponent. Lacy Reid would be another example of a guy's rep getting built up off one destruction. Spence has done it twice now and looked damn good doing so, so he definitely looks the part. Really hope this one happens.

I agree......

Hearn should go out of his way to win the purse bid......Pickem fight and a raucous home crowd might lift Brook as well as maybe getting some grace and favor from the judges....

If the eye holds it looks like a distance fight to me..

Does anyone know if they repaired his eye socket with metal? Is that even allowed? Could be even stronger if so.

Your eyes are something you naturally look to defend anyway so I'm not sure it'll be a big factor unless it gets bust. His confidence will be sky high in terms of taking a punch considering he never hit the deck against GGG and took some big punches.

melv500 wrote:Does anyone know if they repaired his eye socket with metal? Is that even allowed? Could be even stronger if so.

Your eyes are something you naturally look to defend anyway so I'm not sure it'll be a big factor unless it gets bust. His confidence will be sky high in terms of taking a punch considering he never hit the deck against GGG and took some big punches.

It's not always a conscious thing Melv......If you have a bad injury or illness and then later on get a twinge there......You're going to think about whether crap is happening again.........and if he is worrying about his eye he isn't concentrating on Spence...

More to the eye than just the healing process......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

melv500 wrote:Does anyone know if they repaired his eye socket with metal? Is that even allowed? Could be even stronger if so.

Your eyes are something you naturally look to defend anyway so I'm not sure it'll be a big factor unless it gets bust. His confidence will be sky high in terms of taking a punch considering he never hit the deck against GGG and took some big punches.

It's not always a conscious thing Melv......If you have a bad injury or illness and then later on get a twinge there......You're going to think about whether crap is happening again.........and if he is worrying about his eye he isn't concentrating on Spence...

More to the eye than just the healing process......

Yes I do get where you are coming from. And in fairness seen it a few times in football with broken legs, some players are nervous going into tackles after bad injuries.

I'm not saying it won't be a factor but I don't think it will be. Like I say you always defend your eyes anyway but let's see (no pun intended).

Boxing is a dangerous business....He's been British champion....

Reality check needed....He isn’t durable like Chisora..

Much for him to ponder.

Sorry wrong thread

Fair play to Brook for going after this fight. I think it could be a mistake. I just can't see the best brook turning up. Weight (147) has always been an issue for brook, you don't get to bulk up to 160, get smashed and then drain off muscle in your next fight without your body being taxed heavily in the process. It's going to be incredibly hard for him to be a healthy 147 (plus inflation) come fight night.

Very true Digger..

Sandoval v Canizales

Curry v Honey (shut up milky) being examples of scale interference..