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Wimbledon 2019

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Post by sirfredperry Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Fair weather, at least for the first few days, beckons at Wimbledon. There's a roof on number one court, which is excellent news for those with tickets for that court and for the organisers if the rain arrives.

Djoko is my favourite for the title followed by Federer. Rafa has a difficult draw but how often have we seen tricky draws work out simply due to the fact that projected opponents fall by the wayside.

Difficult to make a case out for anyone outside the top three having a good run. Last year Anderson and Isner made the semis but have not played much this season. Not sure Tsitsipas or Thiem really have the game for grass.

Predicting a women's champion is far from straightforward. Barty is the new number one and with that terrific BH slice could do extremely well. Kerber looked very good in beating Halep at Eastbourne and Pliskova has a chance, although her Wimbledon record is woeful.

You can never rule out Serena and, as I said before the French, practically all the top players have a chance. Intriguing first-round match between Coco Gauff (aged 15) and Venus (aged 39).

This year sees a tiebreak kick in at 12-12 in the final set. It just remains to be seen just how much talk the BBC come up with before showing any action when they start the programmes. Thank God for the red button.


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Post by No name Bertie Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:06 am

And Halep serves it out to love to win Wimbledon 6-2 6-2 in 55 minutes.

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Post by dummy_half Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:09 am

Very good from Halep, but Serena made it easy for her - 25+ UE's over the course of 16 games.

Congratulations to Simona.

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Post by sirfredperry Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:09 am

Doubt if Halep could possibly have played any better. I did say earlier that you had to take into account how poorly Serena had played in her two GS finals last year.

But that is not to take anything away from Halep who was practically faultless. She managed to win points from positions you would not think possible.

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Post by Atila Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:12 am

Congratulations to Halep, and I'm not at all surprised she won. Serena just looks so out of shape for a top tennis player.

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Post by No name Bertie Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:16 am

Atila wrote:Congratulations to Halep, and I'm not at all surprised she won. Serena just looks so out of shape for a top tennis player.
That she reached the final might be a reflection of where the woman's game is at the moment?  Players apparently lacking consistency.

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Post by laverfan Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:20 am

Congratulations to Halep. #24 for Williams will have wait.

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Post by lags72 Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:25 am

Spectacular performance by Simone Halep. One of the very best by a Wimbledon Final winner clap

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Post by dummy_half Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:29 am

No name Bertie wrote:
Atila wrote:Congratulations to Halep, and I'm not at all surprised she won. Serena just looks so out of shape for a top tennis player.
That she reached the final might be a reflection of where the woman's game is at the moment?  Players apparently lacking consistency.

Isn't that the truth - match to match and tournament to tournament it seems to be a lottery. While we sometimes complain about the repetitiveness of the Big 3 in the men's game dominating (more because they've been doing so for over a decade and there have been so few challenges from younger players to break through such dominance), the women's game really needs a couple of players to come through and be the stand-out rivals so that some narrative can develop. Oh, and having GS finals that last less than an hour is not going to improve the perception of the current ladies tennis product...

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Post by No name Bertie Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:37 am

Serena Williams reached her first grand slam final back in 1999 and won it (US Open 1999) ... and she is still reaching grand slam finals twenty years later in 2019.   Her 23 grand slam singles titles have been spread out over a number of years, during which it sometimes seemed like she was busy doing other stuff, and she also had a period of mourning when one of her sisters was shot dead.  

It seems to me that even if Serena doesn't get the record number of Grand Slams singles titles - that she was the most physically accomplished and talented women's tennis player yet.   I feel that Monica Seles would have been the "greatest" woman's tennis player if her career hadn't been cut short by being stabbed by a "Steffi Graff" fan / fanatic.  She seemed to be the female precursor to Rafael Nadal.

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Post by sirfredperry Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:48 am

A total of 26 UEs for Serena and just three for Halep tells its own story.

Serena's lack of mobility is not normally exposed. But Halep moved her around and made her play the extra shot.

That's three GS finals in a row that Serena has lost. Will she win another?

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Post by Atila Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:01 am

sirfredperry wrote:A total of 26 UEs for Serena and just three for Halep tells its own story.

Serena's lack of mobility is not normally exposed. But Halep moved her around and made her play the extra shot.

That's three GS finals in a row that Serena has lost. Will she win another?
I hope not.

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Post by lags72 Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:11 am

sirfredperry wrote: ..........................

That's three GS finals in a row that Serena has lost. Will she win another?

Who can say  chin  I do believe it’s going to be pretty difficult .... though with the nature of the women’s game nor is it impossible. Federer went four and a half years without a Slam title and then proceeded to add another three to his tally ; he was getting on a bit but not 37 back then (as he and Serena are now)

As Johnny Mac has just been saying, Williams would have to start playing more events and improving her fitness level. Can’t just dip in and out of the Tour as if it’s just a hobby and expect to clean up at the Slams.

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Post by sirfredperry Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:14 am

Lags72
Of course, there was a time a few years back when Serena COULD just rock up and win a Slam. But she's a mother now and older and I think the overall standard has gone up.

Now it could be that those on centre court today felt that getting a final that lasted less than an hour was being short-changed. But they did see a tremendous performance (and they're getting a good doubles now).

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Post by dummy_half Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:34 am

I think the difference between Federer and Serena now is that Fed is still in excellent condition and it really doesn't look as though the years have impacted his mobility to any great extent. While he has at times limited his schedule, he's still been essentially a full member of the tour other than through the clay season, when he was managing the issues with his back and knee. Currently he seems to be in particularly good shape in the sense of not (apparently) carrying any chronic knocks or weaknesses - he was certainly prepared to throw himself around like a much younger man yesterday.

Serena has always been relatively big built, but she looks to be carrying quite a few extra pounds now than in her prime, which is going to impact both her agility and ultimate court-covering speed. Today her limitations were exposed by a younger, fitter and faster talented player having a very good day.

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Post by Just John Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:02 am

sirfredperry wrote:(and they're getting a good doubles now).

7-6 6-7 6-7 7-6

Pretty epic doubles final. Fifth set to begin under the roof.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:13 am

Nicholas Mahut really gets his money’s worth at Wimbledon

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Post by Just John Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:03 am

Cabal & Farah win the Men’s Doubles

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Post by sirfredperry Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:19 pm

So, it's another Djoko-Rog Wimbledon final. I make Djoko slight favourite but if the Serb is a little off and Rog is on song then the Swiss will win.

This is a key battle not just for the Wimbledon crown but for the fight for most GS triumphs. Rog has at least put paid to Rafa's chance to close the gap at the top of the slam table. But a win for Djoko - the youngest man in the Big Three - would take him a step nearer the summit.

I reckon an argument could be made that if Rog couldn't beat Nole in the finals of 2014 or 2015, then - several years on - he has little chance now.

But is the all-attacking, big-racquet Fed of 2019 much of an inferior player to the Fed of four or five years ago? It's debatable.


Last edited by sirfredperry on Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by No name Bertie Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:36 pm

sirfredperry wrote:So, it's another Djoko-Rog Wimbledon final ... I reckon an argument could be made that if Rog couldn't beat Nole in the finals of 2014 or 2015, then - several years on - he has little chance now ...
The Nole of 2014 or 2015 is no longer with us - we now have a post-operation Nole, with a weaker elbow, that at least no longer seems to be causing him pain, and whose elasticity and movement seem to be less good. The Nole of 2014 or 2015 was on his way to becoming dominant at Roland Garros - but post-operation Nole is no longer able to dominate at Roland Garros.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:47 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:So, it's another Djoko-Rog Wimbledon final ... I reckon an argument could be made that if Rog couldn't beat Nole in the finals of 2014 or 2015, then - several years on - he has little chance now ...
The Nole of 2014 or 2015 is no longer with us - we now have a post-operation Nole, with a weaker elbow, that at least no longer seems to be causing him pain, and whose elasticity and movement seem to be less good.  The Nole of 2014 or 2015 was on his way to becoming dominant at Roland Garros - but post-operation Nole is no longer able to dominate at Roland Garros.
There was never a case that Djokovic was going to ‘dominate at Roland Garros’. In his absolute prime Djokovic was mauled by Wawrinka. And they only time Djokovic won it, he avoided Nadal.

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Post by sirfredperry Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:50 pm

NNB - Nole aint done badly at RG recently - nor anywhere else. It's only a few months since he demolished Rafa at the AO. So I don't think there's been much waning of his powers.

Whatever happens, the dominance of the Big 3 - Big 4 if you include Murray - will continue at Wimbledon, where the last non-Big Four winner was Hewitt SEVENTEEN years ago.


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Post by theslosty Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:10 pm

Strange thing to say given that he's currently holding 3 slams but I agree Novak looks 5-10% off where he was around 2015. He's also yet to play a top 20 player on the grass here so could be under cooked. However, he was able to raise his game up 2 or 3 levels in the final in Australia and may do the same today.
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Post by No name Bertie Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:41 pm

Some Bean Counting for the "Big Four" Era:
Roger Federer: .... 20 GS
Rafael Nadal: ...... 18 GS
Novak Djokovic: .. 15 GS

Wimbledon: titles (final appearances) before today:
Roger Federer: .... 8(11)
Novak Djokovic: .. 4(5)

Most Recent Head to Head
2018  Paris (Indoor Hard) SF:........... Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 7-6 5-7 7-6  
2018  Cincinnati (Outdoor Hard) F:.... Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 6-4 6-4  
2016  Australian Open (Hard) SF:..... Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 6-1 6-2 3-6 6-3  
2015  ATP Finals (Indoor Hard) F:..... Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 6-3 6-4  
2015  ATP Finals (Indoor Hard)  RR:.. Roger Federer beats Novak Djokovic: 7-5 6-2  [dead rubber]
2015  US Open  (Outdoor Hard)  F:... Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 6-4 5-7 6-4 6-4  
2015  Cincinnati (Outdoor Hard) F:.... Roger Federer beats Novak Djokovic: 7-6 6-3  
2015  Wimbledon (Outdoor Grass) F:. Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 7-6 6-7 6-4 6-3  
2015  Rome (Outdoor Clay) F:.......... Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 6-4 6-3  
...
2014  Wimbledon (Outdoor Grass) F:  Novak Djokovic beats Roger Federer: 6-7 6-4 7-6 5-7 6-4

Prediction: Djokovic to win in four.  Tie-breakers may be important to the final outcome.

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Post by theslosty Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:15 am

Not sure if they've broadcasted the whole tournament but Eurosport are showing this final - I reckon if you're knowledgeable about your tennis their coverage is much better than the BBC.
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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:45 am

I remember the US Open/Wimbledon finals of 2014/2015 or thereabouts between the two and they were close matches with little between them but the little that was between them was enough that you felt that Djokovic had an inexorable edge and would almost inevitably win. Not sure yet if this will go the same way or not.

But I think Djokovic had some advantages in playing second (in the semi), youth (relatively speaking, mind you), and a slightly less tiring semi (at least emotionally). So you have to think Djokovic has an edge in the longer matches. And it's hard to see Federer winning in a very short match given Djokovic's level. So I think 60/40 Djokovic.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:58 am

5-6 on serve after Djoko got out of trouble a couple of times.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:10 am

Djoko takes the first set on a tiebreak. Going to be very difficult for Fed now. He had his chances during the set and was 5-3 up in the tiebreak but lost it.

Djoko is practically unbeatable when taking the first set. Some good rallies but not a great match...yet.

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:11 am

Somewhat frustrating tiebreak for Federer after they both played very well for the rest of the set. Lost a few points when he had the advantage and a few unforced errors.

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Post by kemet Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:11 am

This final is over....

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Post by sirfredperry Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:15 am

...except Djoko has just dropped serve at the start of the second.

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Post by kemet Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:21 am

sirfredperry wrote:...except Djoko has just dropped serve at the start of the second.

Although I will happily eat three helpings of stewed crow, I cannot see Roger coming back to win this title, even though he's a double break up in the second set...

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:21 am

kemet wrote:This final is over....
oops. I still think Djokovic is favourite though.

I think that first set TB may end up being the decisive moment. Fed has the ball in his hand at 5-3. Bang down one big first serve and it's three set points. Lost it and back on serve.

Still well done to Federer to bounce back with the early double break. Djokovic making some mistakes at last.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:29 am

Bit of a strange second set, with most people expecting Djoko to push on and NOT drop both his first two service games.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:34 am

One set all as Fed wins second 6-1. Bit weird

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:34 am

Fed is, later in this match, going to be in danger of overdoing the drop shots and very short tactical balls. Now that Djokovic is expecting it, he needs to quit while ahead and only do it as an energy saving tactic when already a break down in a set, or already 2-3 points behind on a Djokovic service game. Otherwise, only very rarely please.

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:37 am

Does anyone else like to watch with the live stats.
https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/stats/1701.html
30/18 Federer W/UEs.
Probably won't keep that ratio up.
Probably will win if he does.

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:38 am

Indeed strange second set. Not as good as the first in either quality of entertainment. Up to 6-6 in the first was good so far, since then patchy.

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Post by kemet Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:41 am

i will say that Novak seems to be the older player now...However there is still time for him to recover

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Post by theslosty Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:46 am

Think that second set shows the difference between prime Novak and Novak today.
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Post by No name Bertie Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:06 am

theslosty wrote:Think that second set shows the difference between prime Novak and Novak today.
And as yet Djokovic has failed to get a single break-point on Federer's serve. At one time Djokovic was the best returner in the game.

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:14 am

Federer deserves to win this set. It's already a certainty that Federer will win more games and points in the first three sets combined than Djokovic.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:14 am

Djoko fends off a Fed set point at 4-5 with some body serves. Djoko now serving to take us into a tiebreak.

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Post by No name Bertie Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:23 am

Djokovic is winning the tie-breaks and that is where he is going to win Wimbledon - or I should say that is where Federer is going to lose Wimbledon.

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Post by kemet Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:27 am

kemet wrote:This final is over....

*Sigh*, as I said, this final is over.

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Post by Henman Bill Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:29 am

3 breaks to none.
No break points conceded.
Won 5 more games (excluding tiebreaks).
Won 10 more points.

Seems pretty unfair.

But obviously Djokovic is playing the big points better today.

I thought Federer could have done more on the point at 5-4 in the TB when he had a chance to attack a weak second serve and dumped it back, and then tried a short drop shot/short ball and missed it.

Sets 2 and 3 don't really have the quality and atmosphere befitting of a final.

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Post by 88Chris05 Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:30 am

Federer will be wondering how the hell he's two sets to one down here. Hasn't faced a break point, has felt to be hitting the ball better for the majority of the match so far - yet here he is staring defeat full in the face. Hate to say it, but he chocked the tie breakers away a little bit.

Says a lot about Djokovic that he's well below his best and yet he's closing in on a fifth Wimbledon crown.
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Post by No name Bertie Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:31 am

Well if Federer is going to win this title he is going to have to do it the hard way.  

And at his age one would suspect Djokovic just needs to maintain his own energy levels in order to capitalise on what one might expect to be a drop off in Federer's energy levels.  

It is a shame that Federer lost both tie-breakers - he could have been collecting his 9th title at this very moment, if they had gone in his favour.

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Post by No name Bertie Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:36 am

kemet wrote:
kemet wrote:This final is over....

*Sigh*, as I said, this final is over.
This final is not over until the gravity challenged lady sings.

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Post by theslosty Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:37 am

Federer has been the better player so far, but Djokovic has been very solid on the big points. Frustrating
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Post by kemet Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:40 am

theslosty wrote:Federer has been the better player so far, but Djokovic has been very solid on the big points. Frustrating

Novak has been more solid and consistent on the baseline exchanges and was guilty of being tentative on significant points during the tiebreaks. The first set tiebreak was particularly frustrating

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