The Trump Presidency

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Galted wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Just between us few on here... I have a feeling the Queen likes Trump.

Don't ask me to explain why but their body language seemed to be in a sort of comfortable harmony when they stood beside each other in June or whenever it was. And I think he quite likes all of that pomp and ceremony... as someone who likes being the centre of attention would.

He's a cross between a court jester and a village idiot so she would love him. Probably lets him run round the grounds with the corgis.

Yes... and also the fact that he has just a touch of olde worlde charm (probably brutally drummed into him from the NY Military Academy) despite his apparently frightening unpredictability in this day and age.

Hope he does use the military on looters and vandals.....No problem with protesting but these scumbags that use the pretence of protest as a way of desecrating and stealing.. The service sector makes up a huge slice of GDP and here they are smashing a fragile Economy even more.....They need a kick up the booty...

Going to be enough problems with chronic lack of Healthcare..Record repossessions...Hungry kids and Parents post Pan without it being added to..........Especially as Biden and Trump are both Corporate hookers...

If the US ever needed Sanders this was the time for an FDR style new deal...But he was screwed over....Hope Trump wins..

Two Parties and two sides of the same backside.

Well they tried kneeling down peacefully and that didnt help. I cant condone the looting but I can understand civil unrest.

I appreciate sending the military in for crowd control, but for a sitting President to threaten to shoot them is unfathomable to me.

Some People say stupid things they don't mean.........Others say things like Iraq has WMDs when they know its bollox...

1 million dead and the Middle East in tatters....

Give me a thick World leader than a conniving bloody one....

So Trump is Warren Harding...Millard Fillmore and Gerald Ford all into one.....Who knew ???

The punishment for looting is not murder by an actual firing squad. Never has been.
Colin Kaepernick is unemployed for taking a knee.
MLK got assassinated walking.
The issue is not the means of protests, it's the fact that they dare protest. To pretend otherwise is willful ignorance at best, or outright lying at worst.

I think we're past any semblance of protesting at this point. Systematically burning down businesses in Portland has little to do with George Floyd

Are black people in Oregon less black than black people in Monnesota?

Do you think that these rioters are justified in burning businesses?

I've got no opinion on the riots. I just think it amusing that "why do they have to riot?" Is being asked as if Colin Kaepernick wasn't blackballed for leading a peaceful protest. As if Martin Luther King wasn't shot and killed. Shame to see these buildings go down. But it was worse to see a human being put down like a dog.

kingraf wrote:Are black people in Oregon less black than black people in Monnesota?

Did the apple store in Oregon support the police in Minnesota?

I'm sure the Apple store will be fine. On account of it being, you know, insured. And also, you know, an inanimate object.

In the last month alone:
Breanna Taylor got shot up and killed by the police who entered the wrong house in a clusterfuc of a raid.
Tapes of Ahmaud Arbery's execution by ex law enforcement for jogging came to light. Reminder, the cops had seen these tapes and decided not to pursue the matter until they were seen by the public.
Amy Cooper tried to phone the cops on a black man who asked her to put a leash on her dog. In her words "An African American man is threatening my life" .
George Floyd got fucing killed for writing a bad cheque which wasn't even a bad cheque.

All of these had protests on a civil and digital level. And yet, like clockwork the next one keeps happening. I'm not sure what you thought would eventually happen. Then the Commander in Chief basically dares protesters to a slug out and there's shock when people answer the challenge. I'm sure there are anarchists and the like who just wanna riot. And I'm sure there are infiltrators who want the riots riots to turn as violent as possible. I've seen the tapes. But suggesting theres a geographical border on how far the incident has to be from you before you as a black person lose the ability to be enraged by it is crazy person talk.

And the people who work there?

And the local businesses burned down?

Couldn't really give a monkeys about Apple or any corporation but cant pretend this doesn't cause more suffering for people unconnected to any of this

So how would you have them protest? Obviously it can't be civil disobedience since that leads to unemployment and no change. It cant be people in positions of influence (NFL players) using their influence, since people "don't want to think about police brutality" while watching a game. It can't even really be nonviolent civil protests, since only 23% of white America liked MLK, and they still shot him. What is this magic pill you put forth?

I'm sure you'd have a different attitude if it was your place of employment that burned down and your job going up in smoke.

We'd probably all have different opinions if either our loved ones had been murdered by the police or our business had been burned down.

You can get a different job. You can't bring George Floyd back. You can't bring Breanna Taylor back.

GSC wrote:I think we're past any semblance of protesting at this point. Systematically burning down businesses in Portland has little to do with George Floyd

Exactly this. What started as a perfectly legitimate protest has been hijacked by thugs and opportunists and extremist groups.

Six killed already in these riots, likely to go much higher before it's over.

Duty281 wrote:

GSC wrote:I think we're past any semblance of protesting at this point. Systematically burning down businesses in Portland has little to do with George Floyd

Exactly this. What started as a perfectly legitimate protest has been hijacked by thugs and opportunists and extremist groups.

Then the politicians use that as an excuse not to address the reasons for legitimate protest.

Julius- Okay, but when Colin Kaepernick took a knee the president of the United States said that "those kneelers shouldn't be in our country". So why are we acting like there's a form of protest that has up to now worked?

Before that, when people took to the streets to protest under the banner that "Black Lives Matter", all they got was "blue lives matter", and then "all lives matter". Frak being a good person of African descent. And Frak anyone who thinks the sancitity of a Frak Apple store in Oregon is comparable to feeling like you could get shot and killed by the same people who are supposed to protect you.

kingraf wrote:Julius- Okay, but when Colin Kaepernick took a knee the president of the United States said that "those kneelers shouldn't be in our country". So why are we acting like there's a form of protest that has up to now worked?

I agree. Eventually, when peaceful protest gets ignored for too long, things go up literally in flames. It's regrettable, but understandable at the same time. I've lived a privileged life as a white, working/middle-class Brit, so I'm not really qualified to comment in any depth, and certainly not qualified to judge in any way. But the injustice and racism is there for all to see. How best to overcome it is a huge, complex problem.

MLK always preached peace over violence, however if you push someone far enough eventually they’ll push back. He’d be spinning in his grave to see the ingrained racism still in the USA over 50 years after his assassination.

What are you if you’re anti-anti-fascist?

Asking for a President.

A bleach drinker

kingraf wrote:Before that, when people took to the streets to protest under the banner that "Black Lives Matter", all they got was "blue lives matter", and then "all lives matter". Frak being a good person of African descent. And Frak anyone who thinks the sancitity of a Frak Apple store in Oregon is comparable to feeling like you could get shot and killed by the same people who are supposed to protect you.

Literally nobody is suggesting this. Hyperbole like this is unhelpful at best.

What I'm suggesting is that looting independent businesses achieves absolutely nothing. It just gives your political opponents ammunition in their fight against you. It's not as if peaceful marching and mindless looting were the only two options available to the protesters.

That being said, I take the point regarding Kaepernick. Peaceful protest has achieved nothing so far. I just feel that there must be a better option than setting fire to stuff that doesn't belong to the people you're protesting against.

Kingraf has a history of letting his take on black oppression cloud his 99% of the time intelligent thoughts...Seem to remember an act of violence by a black performer being justified sometime ago.

Good to see sensible black protesters speaking out against this rabble that aren't in the slightest bit interested in the Cop or victim but are using this for personal gain or as a means to destroy other livelihoods out of envy..

I do think it is fair to say that the riots would have been significantly less had the politicians taken a proper lead on this, rather than use the riots as an excuse to see the protesters as 'bad people'.

Look at the looting and fires in isolation and it is indeed terrible - but the route cause is not with those rioters.

On the plus side - I can't remember the name or location but there was a superb video on Twitter of a sheriff putting down his baton and telling protesters that the actions of the police in the George FLoyd case were not representative of all police, that he wanted his police to walk with the protesters and not to fight against them. 'I want a parade not a riot' or words to that effect. Bet there weren't any significant problems on his patch.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kingraf has a history of letting his take on black oppression cloud his 99% of the time intelligent thoughts...Seem to remember an act of violence by a black performer being justified sometime ago.

Good to see sensible black protesters speaking out against this rabble that aren't in the slightest bit interested in the Cop or victim but are using this for personal gain or as a means to destroy other livelihoods out of envy..

I'll ignore our resident juiced up philandering paragon of virtue.

Samo wrote:What are you if you’re anti-anti-fascist?

Asking for a President.

Think the bigger question is how do you declare an organisation that doesn't actually exist a terrorist organisation.

Pr4wn wrote:

kingraf wrote:Before that, when people took to the streets to protest under the banner that "Black Lives Matter", all they got was "blue lives matter", and then "all lives matter". Frak being a good person of African descent. And Frak anyone who thinks the sancitity of a Frak Apple store in Oregon is comparable to feeling like you could get shot and killed by the same people who are supposed to protect you.

Literally nobody is suggesting this. Hyperbole like this is unhelpful at best.

What I'm suggesting is that looting independent businesses achieves absolutely nothing. It just gives your political opponents ammunition in their fight against you. It's not as if peaceful marching and mindless looting were the only two options available to the protesters.

That being said, I take the point regarding Kaepernick. Peaceful protest has achieved nothing so far. I just feel that there must be a better option than setting fire to stuff that doesn't belong to the people you're protesting against.

Yes some People don't understand the concept of "Two wrongs don't make a right"....

Give them time..Optimism is a virtue.

Even Jesus used a whip to drive the money-changers out of the temple. He'd have got a lot of criticism on social media for that.
"That Jesus bloke, he's got such a temper, no good will come of violence, he should have protested peacefully."

The USA is so 'fraked'

When Trump leaves and they set up a library in his name it will be the first presidential library devoted to picture books.

lostinwales wrote:The USA is so 'fraked'

When Trump leaves and they set up a library in his name it will be the first presidential library devoted to picture books.

Before the pandemic Median household income hit the highest level ever recorded......4 million new jobs were created.....Manufacturing growth was at its highest for three decades...Womens unemployment was its lowest rate since 1955 under Eisenhower.....World Cup in 2026....Olympics in 2028.....Record deregulation...etc..

I don't like Trump either and he has made a mess of the Covid outbreak like Johnson.....However....

Three out of four years were good economically for the US....He was the Commander in Chief during it..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

kingraf wrote:Before that, when people took to the streets to protest under the banner that "Black Lives Matter", all they got was "blue lives matter", and then "all lives matter". Frak being a good person of African descent. And Frak anyone who thinks the sancitity of a Frak Apple store in Oregon is comparable to feeling like you could get shot and killed by the same people who are supposed to protect you.

Literally nobody is suggesting this. Hyperbole like this is unhelpful at best.

What I'm suggesting is that looting independent businesses achieves absolutely nothing. It just gives your political opponents ammunition in their fight against you. It's not as if peaceful marching and mindless looting were the only two options available to the protesters.

That being said, I take the point regarding Kaepernick. Peaceful protest has achieved nothing so far. I just feel that there must be a better option than setting fire to stuff that doesn't belong to the people you're protesting against.

Yes some People don't understand the concept of "Two wrongs don't make a right"....

Give them time..Optimism is a virtue.

Do you actually have a solution to this that hasn't been tried?

The irony of Truss calling out Raf for having a blind spot on black oppression and then jumping to defend an American President straight away.

There’s an ingrained racism in using the looting as your talking point. It probably shows that your support for the protests is lip service, because you immediately empathise with what is more likely to impact you.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:The USA is so 'fraked'

When Trump leaves and they set up a library in his name it will be the first presidential library devoted to picture books.

Before the pandemic Median household income hit the highest level ever recorded......4 million new jobs were created.....Manufacturing growth was at its highest for three decades...Womens unemployment was its lowest rate since 1955 under Eisenhower.....World Cup in 2026....Olympics in 2028.....Record deregulation...etc..

I don't like Trump either and he has made a mess of the Covid outbreak like Johnson.....However....

Three out of four years were good economically for the US....He was the Commander in Chief during it..

The question is how much of all that was down to Trump, and how much would have happened anyway. I suspect strongly that problems were building up. This probably doesn't matter if he can claim credit for it, or could have. I suspect the CV19 fallout will overwhelm a system that has already been stressed to the limits. The age of the USA as the dominant world economy could well be coming to an end, although the beast is so huge it'll take a long time to show it. The question is how far will Trump go to try to distract from the chaos at home. Nuke Tehran? Who knows but it feels as if you can no longer discount anything. I am sure he'd declare war on the WHO if he could.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The irony of Truss calling out Raf for having a blind spot on black oppression and then jumping to defend an American President straight away.

There’s an ingrained racism in using the looting as your talking point. It probably shows that your support for the protests is lip service, because you immediately empathise with what is more likely to impact you.

Pointing out Economic facts is racist (Feel free to check them).... ....Smearing is the last act of the desperate when they have lost the argument.

Bless you......

Pointing out facts without context is a bit pointless though. Those trends have been going on for decades, with the odd blip. Trump's (or any President's) influence over them is fairly minimal.

lostinwales wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:The USA is so 'fraked'

When Trump leaves and they set up a library in his name it will be the first presidential library devoted to picture books.

Before the pandemic Median household income hit the highest level ever recorded......4 million new jobs were created.....Manufacturing growth was at its highest for three decades...Womens unemployment was its lowest rate since 1955 under Eisenhower.....World Cup in 2026....Olympics in 2028.....Record deregulation...etc..

I don't like Trump either and he has made a mess of the Covid outbreak like Johnson.....However....

Three out of four years were good economically for the US....He was the Commander in Chief during it..

The question is how much of all that was down to Trump, and how much would have happened anyway. I suspect strongly that problems were building up. This probably doesn't matter if he can claim credit for it, or could have. I suspect the CV19 fallout will overwhelm a system that has already been stressed to the limits. The age of the USA as the dominant world economy could well be coming to an end, although the beast is so huge it'll take a long time to show it. The question is how far will Trump go to try to distract from the chaos at home. Nuke Tehran?  Who knows but it feels as if you can no longer discount anything. I am sure he'd declare war on the WHO if he could.

Every President owns his Economy...Always has and always will..

How much of the great depression was down to Hoover ???? The depression of the 1890s down to Grover Cleveland ??...You stated nothing would be in the Trump library.....I replied that like him or loathe him he has had some successes warranted or otherwise...

I don't like the GOP and I don't like Trump and wouldn't vote for him.....I just try to see the whole picture....Hyperbolic one sided bollox devalues arguments..

Rather have him than a guy with dementia though......Which shows what a state the the greatest Country on Earth is in..

JuliusHMarx wrote:Pointing out facts without context is a bit pointless though. Those trends have been going on for decades, with the odd blip. Trump's (or any President's) influence over them is fairly minimal.

Maybe you should learn to read instead of trying to impress your mates on the Music thread by trying to be clever...

and failing miserably..

Barring a miracle, two out four of his years ended with the Dow Jones in the red. And that is as the "business friendly" president.
National debt now exceeds 75% of GDP.
The Federal budget deficit would have doubled without COVID, but instead will have increased six times under his leadership.
For all his talk about how China was killing them on trade, the worst ever trade deficit in United States history happened under his watch.
And whether its his fault or not, the unemployment rate is now higher than it has ever been since reliable records were kept.


That's just the economic front, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS STRONGPOINT.
His gaffes on the international stage need no mention. To pretend the last four years have been anything but a walking disaster is a performance in willful ignorance

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Pointing out facts without context is a bit pointless though. Those trends have been going on for decades, with the odd blip. Trump's (or any President's) influence over them is fairly minimal.

Maybe you should learn to read instead of trying to impress your mates on the Music thread by trying to be clever...

and failing miserably..

Oh, you're so cutting Truss. Am I wrong about those trends? Yes/No - delete as applicable.

Trump's first tweet this morning was a quote of a Fox News anchorman who said he saw no evidence of far-right infiltration of the protests, and that it was all Antifa. Now, putting aside the insanity of a head of state getting his information from a TV channel rather than the nation's intelligence services (who must wonder why they bother briefing him), it's intolerable for the head of state to be so apparently incapable of calming tensions, of bringing people together, of healing divisions. He's gone on to tweet that if Biden becomes president, these 'Radical Left' people will be the real ones in power. This can't go on. It's indefensible.

I said all Presidents own their Economy........Reagan library is full of how he reignited a stagnant Economy under Carter/Ford....The Coolidge library is full of how he ignited his economy which in essence was self recovery from WW1....

My post was a response to the library question and how Trump had material......Never wrote that Trump was solely responsible for anything or argued for or against trends..

So I guess you are arguing with yourself.....which you are entitled to do and good luck to you...

Now repeat after me "Presidents own their Economy"

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Rather have him than a guy with dementia though......Which shows what a state the the greatest Country on Earth is in..

Yes, not the greatest country on Earth. About 100 countries I'd rather live in before countenancing America.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Trump's first tweet this morning was a quote of a Fox News anchorman who said he saw no evidence of far-right infiltration of the protests, and that it was all Antifa. Now, putting aside the insanity of a head of state getting his information from a TV channel rather than the nation's intelligence services (who must wonder why they bother briefing him), it's intolerable for the head of state to be so apparently incapable of calming tensions, of bringing people together, of healing divisions. He's gone on to tweet that if Biden becomes president, these 'Radical Left' people will be the real ones in power. This can't go on. It's indefensible.

A leader who is afraid of his own people is no leader at all.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:...
Rather have him than a guy with dementia though......Which shows what a state the the greatest Country on Earth is in..

Ooh a candidate with dementia against a candidate with dementia plus various psychological disorders - Neither is great but you seem to be saying you'd rather have the latter?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The irony of Truss calling out Raf for having a blind spot on black oppression and then jumping to defend an American President straight away.

There’s an ingrained racism in using the looting as your talking point. It probably shows that your support for the protests is lip service, because you immediately empathise with what is more likely to impact you.

Pointing out Economic facts is racist (Feel free to check them).... ....Smearing is the last act of the desperate when they have lost the argument.

Bless you......

I quite enjoy how you’ve conflated both issues.

The irony is that you cast Raf as tribalist in his views and then show a perfect example of that, because you just can’t stand to see criticism of the States. States is the right word too, the absolute f*cking state of your country. But continue to try patronise others when you have no point so would rather inflame.

There you go again....

I have commented a-plenty on how Wall Street and Big Pharma have too much say in US policy and always commend the British NHS system over the dreadful bankrupting Medicare system...It's why I supported Sanders...

But keep throwing Jello at the wall hoping some sticks....

Just watched Joe trying to give some garbled message to a small church congregation in Wilmington. Anyone see it? Honestly, this just gets worse. Mask half over his mouth, kept turning his back to camera. Fingers all over his mask and face. Something about "band-aids". How could his people let him present himself to the media in this way? So, so sad really. Americans do deserve better.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There you go again....

I have commented a-plenty on how Wall Street and Big Pharma have too much say in US policy and always commend the British NHS system over the dreadful bankrupting Medicare system...It's why I supported Sanders...

But keep throwing Jello at the wall hoping some sticks....

Wood for the trees