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Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 22 Jul 2019, 12:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Not a great position for Saints, captain and international level hooker looks likely so they've resorted to signing what is at best squad filler. Presumably Haywood and Fish will carry the bulk of the playing time.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 6:01 pm

I saw the Rugby Pass article about May. It seems very much a regurgitating old news sort of article. No quotes, no mention of sources, no new clubs touted, etc. Also the same current wage (circa £250k) and wage cut (£100k) mentioned. I'm not saying that Jonny is staying but I just don't think that article is up to much to be honest. If he leaves after being offered a big wage cut then no one can't blame him.

For Tigers it'll all depend on what we are getting instead. Both on the wing and elsewhere. If Jonny goes and a top winger doesn't replace him then I'd be expecting either a spectacular lock signing or a very good number 8 frankly.

My one gripe is that Ben Youngs is rumoured to have signed for more than Jonny has been offered. Both were offered big pay cuts and YBY accepted his which is fair enough, adds continuity, Lenny is a stalwart, etc. With White coming through and Lenny ranging from inconsistent to pish for Tigers I think May has offered more in the last 3 years.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 9:00 pm

I agree that May has offered Tigers a lot more in recent seasons but he's the easier of the two to replace and is the one who really only has one big contract left in him. As brilliant as May has been he misses a third of the season and there are other speedy wingers that will score tries. Won't be as good as May but won't cost as much and be available more often and currently we do need to make sure the pack comes first. A Nadolo/Holmes/TV backline will still work well even before we bring anybody in as a replacement.

Youngs as inconsistent as he is for Tigers showed for England in the last 6N game just how he can still turn it on. Also at 30 he could still play on for us for another five years being mentor and experienced option for our string of young talent. Signing a replacement would have been either signing someone past their best to fill the experience/mentor role ala Wigglesworth from Sarries a very short term option, a journeyman or second tier international. We wouldn't be getting a current tier 1 international with 99 caps for what we're supposedly paying Ben. Loyalty plus the England match fees have convinced him to sign.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 9:03 pm

150K per year seems low for someone like May, I thought it would be at least 300K.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 9:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:150K per year seems low for someone like May, I thought it would be at least 300K.

I think RugbyPass got the numbers wrong. He is allegedly on £325k and is being offered a two year deal for £225k per season. With England appearance fees at £25k a game on top. He was signed at a time when we were spending big on the backline. Ben Youngs has according to the rumours re-signed on a £250k deal, he too gets the appearance fees from the RFU for when he plays for England.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 10:25 pm

Yep I got my figures wrong there with May, sorry 606ers.

Sam - Scrum-halves are arguably harder to sign but with White, Simmons and Jack van Poortvliet coming through a stop-gap is all Tigers would need with good succession planning. I'd rather keep Ben and Jonny but both were being offered big pay cuts I'd have prioritised keeping May. Harsh on Lenny who has had great moments for Tigers but he's offered less in recent years and would probably have fewer suitors than Jonny. Time will tell. I still hope both will be Tigers next year.

Rumours that Ryan Hutler (Bedford) and Jack Spittle (Nottingham) are the latest Championship wingers and regular try scorers on the radar of Prem clubs.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 08 Apr 2020, 10:40 pm

I read the link though and it did say May was on 200k.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 8:12 am

The National Media of Wales now apparently think Owen Williams is off to Japan, as well as Hadleigh Parkes. Whilst I understand Parkes trying to top his pot up in his latter years, it seems a little early for Williams to do it especially when he is back in the Welsh management's thoughts.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 9:22 am

Be an odd call for Owen Williams to head to Japan now. If he goes to the Ospreys as rumoured then he slots into the playmaking 12 shirt that would suit Wales and put him right in line for the Lions tour if he shows his best form for an extended period as the 12 shirt is the one most open to new challengers.

Hadleigh Parkes is now 32 so if he can land a three year deal in Japan who could blame him. Set him up nicely for retirement.

Carlos, is Ryan Hutler the one with the ridiculous scoring record of something like one in two? I think there's a lot of talent in the Championship and given the current situation available at very good prices. You could pick up both of those speedsters for the cost of May I reckon.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 10:38 am

Not transfer related...but i see Leeds, now reverted back to calling themselves Leeds, rather than Yorkshire.

I think thats good

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 11:09 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Not transfer related...but i see Leeds, now reverted back to calling themselves Leeds, rather than Yorkshire.

I think thats good

Yes. The irony being their new ground could be closer to York...

Relegated from the second tier, moving out of Headingly. Amateur outfit next season, financially unstable. A bit of a wreck really. Sad times for Yorkshire rugby with Rotherham, Hull and Otley all struggling as well.

Yorkshire has more rugby clubs than any other county, there is a lot of talent produced by that region. Who will be able to tap into it now there is a bit of a power vacuum in terms of a dominant club.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 12:12 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Carlos, is Ryan Hutler the one with the ridiculous scoring record of something like one in two? I think there's a lot of talent in the Championship and given the current situation available at very good prices. You could pick up both of those speedsters for the cost of May I reckon.

Yep that's him. Hutler and Dean Adamson have both had outstanding strike rates for Bedford season after season. Hutler is the younger of the two though, early twenties I believe. Those two would cost a fraction of May's reduced contract offer.

Bedford are one of the better supported clubs in the Championship but only a few years ago one of their coaches mentioned after one of their games that the total wage bill was around £600k. With a further £150k for the coaching and support staff. A friend who played in the Scottish Prem and now Super 6 moved down to Bedford for a 'pro contract' a few years ago. He was on £21k a year as a regular starter in the back row and considered himself luck compared to others.

I've heard from a few people that Jordie Coghlan isn't earning too much more than the better paid academy players at Tigers.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 1:41 pm

Most Championship players will happily take a slightly improved contract at a Prem or Pro14 club even though the contracts are quite small because of the security and better training and medical facilities. Plus a couple of good performances can see a big increase when signing the next contract.

With the budget cuts I'd like to see Tigers take the initiative and agree some deals where they part fund players contracts at Championship clubs in order to have access to then for training and squad places as they are required. Cheap way of getting multiple project players alongside the development players.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 2:39 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Not transfer related...but i see Leeds, now reverted back to calling themselves Leeds, rather than Yorkshire.

I think thats good

Yes. The irony being their new ground could be closer to York...

Relegated from the second tier, moving out of Headingly. Amateur outfit next season, financially unstable. A bit of a wreck really. Sad times for Yorkshire rugby with Rotherham, Hull and Otley all struggling as well.

Yorkshire has more rugby clubs than any other county, there is a lot of talent produced by that region. Who will be able to tap into it now there is a bit of a power vacuum in terms of a dominant club.

We actually have a lot of links with many of the yorkshire clubs, i guess it means more work with them in future to make sure the talent isnt missed

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 5:56 pm

Parkes has been a great servant to Welsh rugby, I thought he might end his career in West Wales but if he can get a big contract in Japan then good for him. BBC seem to think it’s a done deal now anyway. I thought he might have played a season too long at international level but he continued to step up in big games - and we didn’t really have an able replacement anyway. I imagine another Kiwi, Halaholo will replace him now although I imagine his international career will be fairly short too. 

Yeah Owen Williams going to Japan seems daft if he harbours international ambitions - maybe he doesn’t. 

Wonder if Scarlets are looking to get a replacement at centre? Probably TH too as Kruger is 35, or could they be waiting another season for John?

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 8:31 pm

The amount that Jonathan Davies passing game progressed whilst playing with Parkes is really notable. His all round game really kicked on after coming back from Clermont. Sometimes a centre partner who just nails the basics and gets over the gain line phase after phase can take some pressure off a player.

Owen Williams has spent the last few years on a massive wage. 19 starts in 3 season with Gloucester, with only 9 of them in the Premiership won't be demanding the same salary anymore. His huge boot and good defence means he has a lot of potential in the right setup.

Joe Thomas to Scarlets was rumoured a month or so back. Not a replacement for Parkes but would add some depth with Corey Baldwin also leaving.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 09 Apr 2020, 9:45 pm

I thought it was Joe Thomas to Dragons. I would hope we spend the money elsewhere first. Owen Williams would be great for us, as would Rowlands and Grobler Smile...

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Post by chris_501 on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 11:31 am

May going back to Glos, did anyone see that as a possible destination? They have a lot of options in the back 3 now.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 12:11 pm

Lots of options and have now added an expensive one that will miss a third of every season. Rees-Zammit, Thorley and May into two positions will be interesting. Is Banahan out of contract this summer? That might help make room for May.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:11 pm

May will largely be replacing Owen Williams cap space. I imagine they will just use Lloyd Evans and Twelvetrees as cover for Cipriani. 36 has played plenty of 10 for Gloucester under Ackermann and he often kicks for goal when Cips is playing anyway.

Marshall, Sharples and Woodward are also out of contract at Gloucester I believe.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:15 pm

Tom Marshall has already re-signed with Gloucester.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:18 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tom Marshall has already re-signed with Gloucester.

Missed that. Having a wee scan of Shedweb it sounds like they are expecting Sharples to be moving on. Potentially to France.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:19 pm

Didn’t Rees-Zammit extend his contract, so he’s gotta be there for 4 years at least? So they aren’t losing him soon, but could see him as well as May away for chunks of the season.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:43 pm

Thorley could easily break into the England squad as well Mikey. Gloucester have some good wingers.

Sharples taking a pay day makes sense.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 19 Apr 2020, 11:15 pm

Jonah Holmes being linked with Dragons. If he wishes to pursue an international career he has no choice but to join one of the four.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 20 Apr 2020, 7:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Jonah Holmes being linked with Dragons. If he wishes to pursue an international career he has no choice but to join one of the four.

He signed a "long term contract" back in October 2018 just before his first cap. I assume that should take up until summer 2021. I'd be surprised if he was out of contract already. The WRU might be trying to reach an agreement to buy him out of his contract. Tigers are after all a business and one that is losing a lot of money in revenue. We don't have a wealthy backer so might have to consider a reasonable offer. With May just out the door I can't see us being particularly keen though.

Holmes is 27 and 28 before the next season starts. He's unlikely to make the next world cup and I wouldn't have him down as a Lion's tourist. Good player though he is, particularly at reading the game, it would be an odd player for the WRU to target and " bring home" (he's from Stockport originally so not really heading home).

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 21 Apr 2020, 8:57 pm

I wonder how long that was, 3 years? Interesting if the WRU are trying that, the money should be spent elsewhere first like trying to get the like of John, Francis and Rowlands to a Welsh team. After a recent article I read I doubt we'll ever see Francis at a Region anyway. The article was via RugbyPass and so far all of their rumours have been true.

I think it would take a few injuries to make the Lions tour, and possibly injuries and some out-of-form wingers for him to make the next world cup. Arguably, he could be the one to replace Halfpenny. Holmes only has a few caps and not against amazing opposition but from what we all saw he was pretty good and should be able to continue making the step-up. As I said if it's caps he is after then he needs to move. His stock should rise after more international honours and then he has a decision to make - you could see him finishing his career at somewhere like Exeter and he'd probably be pretty good for them; either that or Japan.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 21 Apr 2020, 9:35 pm

I think the general assumption at the time was that Holmes just agreed a two year extension early. He had joined in 2017 on a two year deal so normally a deal would have been thrashed out over the winter and announced in the Spring. In a rare bit of foresight the board got the deal done and announced it before he joined up with Wales. Be just the same two year extension I thought. Unless the Tigers board played true to form and only offered an extension only to this summer in which case there could be a lynch mob coming if we lose both May and Holmes this summer without another flyer coming in.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 5:03 pm

BBC Leicester are actually running with Holmes to Dragons now. I didn't think this would come off, tbh. If it is true, then we've done well there.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 6:15 pm

Just owen williams and will Rowlands to go...

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 6:52 pm

RiscaGame wrote:BBC Leicester are actually running with Holmes to Dragons now. I didn't think this would come off, tbh. If it is true, then we've done well there.

That will go down well with the Leicester fans. He's a good player, scores tries and reads the game very well. Has a tendency to appear in just the right position when playing fullback, really good at stopping opponents line breaks. Not the best tackler he does get stood up and shrugged off in the wider channels, normally when defending as a winger. Dragons will be happy with the move if he joins next season.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 7:45 pm

9 of the 12 Prem clubs apparently voted to lower the cap to £5.5m next year due to financial difficulties. The 3 who voted against being named as Bristol, Bath and Chiefs.

So there's a chance that Tigers are cutting costs. We direly need a couple of good wingers now even if Freddie Steward is going to get game time at fullback with Veainu moving back to the wing.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 9:13 pm

South Wales Argus are trying to calm the talk a little. They say he’s definitely leaving Leicester, but trying to say our priorities lie elsewhere.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 22 Apr 2020, 10:33 pm

king_carlos wrote:9 of the 12 Prem clubs apparently voted to lower the cap to £5.5m next year due to financial difficulties. The 3 who voted against being named as Bristol, Bath and Chiefs.

So there's a chance that Tigers are cutting costs. We direly need a couple of good wingers now even if Freddie Steward is going to get game time at fullback with Veainu moving back to the wing.

I suspect that's because Bath are likely to be over the cap already and have a wealthy backer, they have a few big name players on high contracts. Chiefs can afford to pay up to the cap so will want to as they have ambitions in Europe as well as domestically. Bristol have a wealthy backer and this is a great opportunity to use the financial muscle to build up the squad.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 7:46 am

How would that even work with clubs committed to contracts? It's easy to raise the cap, but lower it? I thought that would something that would have to be brought in over a number of seasons.

Either way, it would still give us Falcons some maneuvering I reckon!

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 9:29 am

ha ha ha Sgt, just wait till the Saudis buy us aswell...move over Toloun...the Falcons will be in charge Laugh Laugh

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 9:38 am

If that happens GF Richards will go from having one of the smallest budgets in the league to one of the biggest overnight. 

Wouldn't surprise me if Tigers are looking to cut costs, our CEO pointed out that we were losing something like £300k+ of income per home game. Builds up into a big problem over time and with BT Sport being owed for missed games and no certainty of when any rugby will start again who knows when the revenue streams will return to normal. I fully expect a team or two to go under, the CVC money has probably saved a few as well.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 9:57 am

Im not sure its going to happen for us sadly Sam.


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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 10:56 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not sure its going to happen for us sadly Sam.


Probably not.

Might be closer with a lot of clubs cutting their budgets backs. Tigers have currently taken £500kish of international wingers out the squad, are a first team backrow and lock down and, we are likely to be offloading a couple of squad player backs. If there's no further signings of note in we could be around £750k under the cap (Nadolo in for May). I very much hope we at least get another first team lock in otherwise the new more powerful pack won't be looking as sharp.

Players yet to be replaced;

Stevens - hooker, concussion issues in first season back with club and then spent last season on loan in the championship. Only every a back up not likely to be retained.
Cortes - back up prop barely played we may just promote internally
Spencer - first team lock rumoured to be going to Bath, he won't be on peanuts with us.
Kalamafoni/Thompson - Brink has been signed to replace one or the other, both of our out going players were signed as established prem players and Kalamafoni at a time we were desperate for an 8 so probably overpaid slightly.
Coghlan - Irish backrow, barely featured and dual registered with Notts. Rumour is he's on a very small contract so might be retained.
Thomas - centre, played a little but not much and will be replaced internally. Heading home to Wales.
Holmes - re-signed just before international selection so will have been on half decent money but not big cash.
May - rumoured to be on £325k and has been replaced by Nadolo at allegedly about £100k less.
Thompstone - first team player when he signed his last contract but injuries have ruined his career in recent times.

Hmm actually might be more than £750k of spare cap there. I would expect a few more to be announced though our back three recruitment might be from the championship.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 1:49 pm

BBC Reporting that the Scarlets are after Johnny Williams....

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 4:20 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:BBC Reporting that the Scarlets are after Johnny Williams....

Pivac sent a clear message to the WRU that he wanted a stronger pool of players if 'Gatland's law' remains. It seems that the WRU and regions are really going for it to be fair.

Rees-Zammit is the only obvious one they've missed thus far. Tomas Francis 'rolling extensions' contract is coming to an end finally so he spoke to BBC about having a tough decision to make. Nick Tompkins is looking for a loan deal at a region next season before returning to Sarries. That contract expires in 2022 though at which point Tompkins will have the same call as Francis.

I actually think the WRU are shooting themselves in the foot to an extent. With players that the regions bring through and invest money in who then look to move early in an international career (i.e. before the 60 cap cut off) when their contract offers increase I think Gatland's law does a good job of keeping them in Wales, with the Union and regions who funded their development.

With WQP players who come through completely different leagues and set-ups I think a bit more leniency is required. By moving to regions they are often having to uproot, take wage cuts (not always but often) and by no means all kick on given the Pro14 sees a lot of inconsistency in quality due to players being rested and Osprey's being the only region in the Champions Cup this season.

Having lost Sam Costelow I expect Tigers will be more cautious about investing in Wales U20 players in the future. I desperately hope that we don't lose Tommy Reffell as well. Leo Gilliland is another Wales age grade player at Tigers with a lot of talent although he's had his progress hit by injury.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 5:03 pm

Johnny Williams is a very classy player. Playing style quite similar to Tompkins so maybe Pivac likes a specific type of centre. Makes sense for the Scarlets with their centre combination aging, they can start forming a long term 10/12 combination whilst JD2 is still about to guide them from 13. Having just recovered from a serious illness though Williams might feel he owes Falcons for looking after him.

Francis said in his interview he was hopeful of picking up the required caps in order to be able to stay at Exeter once his contract runs out. If the 6N/summer tour games are played at the start of next season as the unions seem keen to do then that would help him. If he can stay fit and play next season 6N and summer tour then he might have to avoid a tough decision.

I would now expect a lot of prem clubs to look into how they can tie down Welsh qualified talent long term. The Costelow case certainly did not help Tigers who spent time and effort developing him.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 6:25 pm

Sounds like Sarries are signing Will Hooley (Bedford/USA), Harry Sloan (Ealing) and Alex Carey (Jersey). On top of Janco Venter (Jersey) and Leroy van Dam (Jersey) were linked to them earlier in the season as well.

Hoovering some of the higher quality players in the Championship prior to their season in the league. I'd guess that Hooley will basically cover Malins whilst he's on loan, Venter covering Earl and Sloan covering the potential Tompkins loan.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 7:46 pm

It was always likely Sarries would pilfer a selection of Championship players to fill out their squad for next season. Those that impress will get a go in the Prem and the rest will be released to make room for the big spending on their return. Be interesting to see just how many stay and how many go once it's all done and sorted.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 7:57 pm

Is Johnny Williams still good? Probably the Welshest name I've seen but also always thought he'd play for England. Scarlets also being linked with Tyler Morgan, which given his injury record isn't a good signing.

Dragons re-sign Jarvis.

Francis will probably by-pass the 'Gats law' for reasons already mentioned, it seems he is keen on staying at Exeter for possibly his whole career. John, Holmes, (Owen) Williams, Rowlands and also Rees-Zammit depending on the type of contract he signed will need to come at the end of their current contract. I can imagine it being a bit of war to get RZ.

Not sure what's going on with Carre right now, but if he stays in his current contract he's safe. Tompkins is probably sampling Blues. He knows he will have to play in Wales after the Sarries contract ends, I imagine it will be Scarlets he joins then, once he experiences the poor Blues management.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 9:56 pm

Much truth in Sione Kalamafoni also signing for Scarlets?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 10:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Much truth in Sione Kalamafoni also signing for Scarlets?

Considered a done deal by most Tigers fans. Tigers aren't retaining him.

See my earlier comments about Williams. Injuries and illness have disrupted his career so far but he's a good inside centre. Runs good lines hard and defends well.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 10:24 pm

I was sure Scarlets needed a TH, not another No.8.

If Williams can attack as well as Tompkins yet defend better than him, we’re onto a winner.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 23 Apr 2020, 10:31 pm

Fair play to John Bleddyn Rhys Williams for overcoming that serious illness and resuming playing duties. Legend already. He looks like a big centre too if the stats are correct. Pivac definitely eyeing him up for a test if he can cut the mustard at Scarlets.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Apr 2020, 8:30 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Is Johnny Williams still good? Probably the Welshest name I've seen but also always thought he'd play for England. Scarlets also being linked with Tyler Morgan, which given his injury record isn't a good signing.


Yes. He's classy player. He was head and shoulders above the championship in the last few months. But he has injury issues and his well known health problem last year.

I think there'd be a few pee'd off falcons fans if he left after the help and time he's been given with his injuries and then his cancer treatment.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Apr 2020, 10:22 am

Flip side being that he will be thinking of setting himself ip for the future with a touch more focus potentially. He was on the outskirts of selection much like Tompkins so looks like wales could be well set in midfield.

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