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France vs England - Match Thread

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 2nd February 15:00 - France (a)
BBC Sport

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (Ireland)


Recent Form

France:
20th October 2019: Wales - Lost 19-20
6th Ocober 2019: Tonga - Won 23-21
2nd October 2019: USA - Won 33-9
21st September 2019: Argentina - Won 23-21
30th August 2019: Italy - Won 47-19



England
2nd November 2019: South Africa - Lost 12-32
26th October 2019: New Zealand: Won 19:7
19th October 2019: Australia - won 40-16
5th October 2019: Argentina - Won 39-10
26th September 2019: USA - Won 45-7


Head to Head

Matches Played - 90
Wins - England 49, France 34
Draws - 7
Tries - England 165, France 143



Teams

France:
France vs England - Match Thread - Page 5 9k=

Bouthier; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Ntamack, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas, Le Roux, Willemse, Cros, Ollivon (c), Alldritt

Reps: Mauvaka, Poirot, Bamba, Palu, Woki, Serin, Jalibert, Rattez


England
France vs England - Match Thread - Page 5 2Q==

Furbank; May, Tuilagi, Farrell (capt), Daly; Ford, B Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Ewels, Lawes, Underhill, Curry.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Kruis, Ludlam, Heinz, Devoto, Joseph


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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:39 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:Why did Tuilagi go off?

Embarrassed to be part of it I imagine

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:41 pm

Who are englands big carriers now?

No actual 8, no Mako, Manu off...Farrell isnt a big carrier.

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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:41 pm

Just remember England fans this is France and they were in a very similar position against Wales this time last year!

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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:42 pm

quinsforever wrote:difference in score exemplified by difference between youngs and furband and their opposite numbers. worlds apart

Not sure about that. The difference is the forwards. France are one of only 3 teams that can consistently dominate England up front. One of those was the world cup winners. England simply aren't a good team playing on the back foot like Wales, Australia, Scotland etc.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:43 pm

England are being all France-like.

France are being all non-France-like.
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Post by Dirtydave on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:44 pm

Record comeback at half time is wales from 16-0 last year.

France looked equally impressive in that game, however they didn't have the instinctive ability of keeping the tactical discipline, and as great as Edwards is his gameplan will struggle when players get tired.

England are capable of coming back, but they have to believe, wales always do, I'm not sure england know how to respond in this position

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:44 pm

Can someone explain to me what type of lock Ewels is suppoed to be? An athletic lineout lock or a powerhouse scrummaging lock.

Im seeing neither. Why has he been in all the squads for the last few years?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:45 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Dirtydave wrote:Ben Youngs looks like a pub player, his distribution has sowed total panic throughout the backline.

Whats irritating me is he keeps taking 2 or 3 steps before he passes....it just telegraphs what hes doing

Standard attacking template Vs a Edwards style blitz defence. Pull the defence up and with the playmaker and then provide runners. If the defence come up too quick there's space to Dan through. You can't race up on one man either because that leaves a dog leg for the scrum half to dart or the runner to angle. If you whip the ball out quick it's easy to blitz up onto the attacker unless you have good momentum.

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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:45 pm

Important to remember Wales were trailing France 16-0 at HT in wet weather last year with lots of knock ons. They won the grand slam. This looks different tbh as France look top notch but it's not over. Big test of Farrell's captaincy in particular here.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:46 pm

The biggest concern is that england are normally efficient at getting some points on the board...but we look blunt even though weve had some chances.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:46 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote:Why did Tuilagi go off?

Embarrassed to be part of it I imagine

Sounds like he was playing with a niggle. He's been well managed by Tigers but apparently not by England. Typical.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:46 pm

Ewells knock on...meh

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:48 pm

Is this what happens when you pick so many players who’ll be playing second division rugby next year?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:48 pm

Heinz on please. Last game for young please. Continuing his awful form from way before the world cup. Glacial.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:48 pm

Never thought i would say this about England. They are playing just like Italy did against Wales yesterday.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:48 pm

Selection was all wrong.

Eddie has got this one wrong, time to pick form players in their right positions
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:48 pm

England not the same side without the Vunapolas.

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Post by Poorfour on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:50 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:England not the same side without the Vunapolas.

Marler is dominating the scrum, though, and carrying better than anyone bar Lawes. But we could have done with Dombrandt out there.
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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:51 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote:Why did Tuilagi go off?

Embarrassed to be part of it I imagine

Sounds like he was playing with a niggle. He's been well managed by Tigers but apparently not by England. Typical.

Shame. Wonderful player and a big loss for England.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:52 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:England not the same side without the Vunapolas.

Marler is dominating the scrum, though, and carrying better than anyone bar Lawes. But we could have done with Dombrandt out there.

England not really getting much go forward ball though which the Vunapolas and Tuilagi would give them.


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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:53 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Selection was all wrong.

Eddie has got this one wrong, time to pick form players in their right positions

It does seem strange that his England team were the ones to put the All Blacks with 3 locks to the sword. He's then picked the same system and his team is getting dominated at the breakdown and struggling for accuracy in defence and attack in the collisions.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:55 pm

Based on that we will give Italy a good game.
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Post by Noble-Surfer on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:55 pm

tigertattie wrote:Are there any welsh fans hiding in here?

I’m going to say something very very controversial here. I could get a pasting.

Are we seeing a France team revved up by Shaun Edwards? They are ferocious.

All these years Garland has been getting the applause for Wales wins based on a defensive system. Should the kudos be given to Shaun Edwards all this time?

I know it’s only been 30mins of rugby. But France look completely reinvented. They look........ disciplined

Edwards always got the plaudits for our defence, and rightly so. I was expecting a dramatic improvement under him from France, but this is so much better than I was expecting.

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Post by whocares on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:55 pm

Game far from over - England will surely be less error prone in the 2H

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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:56 pm

That's shambolic from May.

A word for France though. Some great performances from 1 to 15. French 8 has been monumental. Dupont is maybe the best 9 in the world and Serin on the bench is up there as well. Back 3 and 10 playing really well as well. The worry for England is Vakatawa has been quiet.

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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:57 pm

Noble-Surfer wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Are there any welsh fans hiding in here?

I’m going to say something very very controversial here. I could get a pasting.

Are we seeing a France team revved up by Shaun Edwards? They are ferocious.

All these years Garland has been getting the applause for Wales wins based on a defensive system. Should the kudos be given to Shaun Edwards all this time?

I know it’s only been 30mins of rugby. But France look completely reinvented. They look........ disciplined

Edwards always got the plaudits for our defence, and rightly so. I was expecting a dramatic improvement under him from France, but this is so much better than I was expecting.

It's a bit like 2008. Big change in a short space of time with the good handling and attacking instincts carrying over from the old regime. If France keep this going for the second half and keep playing they should be on as grand slam favourites.

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Post by Dirtydave on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:58 pm

Let's be totally honest, France look good but have been put under no pressure, England are making key handling errors, and being naive at the breakdown.

England can tighten up, use the set piece and put france under pressure and we'll see what france are made of.

However, England need a ball carrying option, and the choice of passing between Youngs and Ford is disgraceful! Youngs is floating awkward balls all over the shop, and spinning quickly others, then ford is compounding the problem. Farrell knock ons have come from a switch in ball movement, the first floated league style when he wanted a quick spin, and the second spun when he was expecting more time...

Look at farrells hands, he's early on the first and late on the second.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:00 pm

Aside from all the errors, Ewels being anonymous, Lawes looking exhausted, Joseph getting overrun, Curry being played out of position, Furbank having a terrible debut, and Youngs  being his usual diabolical self, it’s going quite well for England. Oh and the kicking out of hand has been terrible.

France have been excellent. It must be nice having a top quality scrum half! Not game over yet, but it will be if France get the next try.

I said the first twenty minutes would decide it, and it might just have done, like in 2014.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:02 pm

So the consensus from the pundits for the 2nd try was the TMO got it wrong?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:05 pm

But what I can't understand it why May was just about to wrap up the French player with the ball then just backed off?  Surely you make the tackle until you hear the whistle - even if Nige didn't help by putting the whistle to his lips and then not blowing ..


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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:07 pm

Ford puts it 5m out and then England force the error. Exactly what we needed.

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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:09 pm

That was comfortably the worst half of English rugby in a very long time.

EJ's 'bold' selections not paying off!

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Post by Heaf on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:10 pm

No 8 not looking like a clever call ...

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:10 pm

RDW wrote:That was comfortably the worst half of English rugby in a very long time.

EJ's 'bold' selections not paying off!

The scotland game wasnt that long ago

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:12 pm

England, Italy mark 2.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:13 pm

England in danger of getting nilled. So ponderous with ball in hand.

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Post by miltonkeynesengland on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:13 pm

I cant work out Englands tactics..it looks like people who've never met...not helped by Youngs habitual stopping to have a think at the back of the ruck

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Post by miltonkeynesengland on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:15 pm

17 nil down..let's just kick it away

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:16 pm

Very dirty from England. Hate that crap.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:18 pm

Great tackle from Genge.

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Post by Dirtydave on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:18 pm

One thing I've noticed in recent years, and something that concerns me come world cup...

The French TV directors have way too much autonomy on replays etc!

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Post by Heaf on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:18 pm

Nothing wrong with that tackle ...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:Great tackle from Genge.

How about trying to win by being better than France rather that trying to take out their 10. Dirty.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:19 pm

Dirtydave wrote:One thing I've noticed in recent years, and something that concerns me come world cup...

The French TV directors have way too much autonomy on replays etc!

Indeed - didn't replay any of the suspect turnovers ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:20 pm

Ah well game over. Youngs again being terrible.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:20 pm

Game over?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:20 pm

Heaf wrote:Nothing wrong with that tackle ...

More impact in 30 seconds than Marler in 50 minutes.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:21 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Great tackle from Genge.

How about trying to win by being better than France rather that trying to take out their 10. Dirty.

Perfectly legitimate tackle. Perfect timing.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:21 pm

No clear release on May ...

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Post by miltonkeynesengland on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:21 pm

What happens when you have a quality 9

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