ENGLAND v WALES - Match Thread / Build up - 7/3/2020

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England    v Wales    - 07/03/2020 - 16:45pm - the HOME of Rugby.

England XV

Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Wilson, Curry

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewels, Earl, Heinz, Slade

Wales XV

Halfpenny; North, Tompkins, Parkes, Williams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, Owens, D Lewis, Ball, AW Jones (capt), Moriarty, Navidi, Tipuric.

Replacements: Elias, Carre, L Brown, Shingler, Faletau, Webb, J Evans, McNicholl.


Overall - Played 134 - Eng 63 - Wales 59 - Drawn 12

[mikey_dragon]

Good god hersh is boring.

[TightHEAD]

You still here?

Stick your Gat-Trick dvd on and be happy.

[SecretFly]

If I was a coach knowing everything I said in a conference would be turned and twisted to suit the agenda of the Journalist, I would wind them up too.

That's Marler's job.

[TightHEAD]

[TightHEAD]

Marler Cited no surprise!
Also Courtney Lawes no mention Parks or Owens! unbelievable, the 17th man (citing officer)having their say now!

[Guest]

Marler and Lawes cited.

[TightHEAD]

Travesty Parks hasn't been cited.

[mikey_dragon]

No arms shoulder charge = illegal. There was an attempt to wrap by Curry but not Tuilagi.

Both wrapped their arms.

Suggest you get your eyes tested if you think Tuilagi wrapped his arms.. there was no attempt to wrap... RED card every day...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/51795296

Video here clearly shows now attempt to wrap, and Tuilagi knew the red was coming...

Best to know what incident is being discussed.

You should get your eyes tested if you believe you seen arms wrap, on the one I was referring to. I would have waved it on personally, but seeing as a lot of English are crying they were hard done by I thought I'd mention it.

Bit odd to mention the trip on Farrell which was a result of a push.

Marler and Lawes cited. The only citings missing are Parkes and Itoje.

[mikey_dragon]

You still here?

Stick your Gat-Trick dvd on and be happy.

And you're still replying to being addressed that way and STILL complaining about the comments? Pathetic.

[TightHEAD]

Stop derailing the thread.

[TightHEAD]

Parkes not being cited sends out the wrong message.

Poor tackle technique, head/shoulder on head is dangerous and reckless play. Needs to be cited.

[mikey_dragon]

As does Itoje.

[RiscaGame]

Marler and Lawes cited.

Ah well, if nothing else it will probably prove that we woz robbed, when the subsequent bans are handed out. As I said, those Welsh players are and there should be no more besmirching of their names.

[Soul Requiem]

Parkes and Williams not being cited is ridiculous.

[TightHEAD]

Its just so inconsistent, World rugby needs to get a grip

[TightHEAD]

Basically if you lay a finger on Alun 'Whinge' Jones you will be cited.


Lawes is cited for a tackle on Jones. Unbelievable?

[Geordie]

Shocking that Parkes hasnt been cited...

[TightHEAD]

Yes, whether he is found guilty or not he had to be cited.

[TightHEAD]

Going back to Manu's red card!

Not one Welsh player reacted (apart from AWJ in the Refs ear! )

If it was foul play those players closest would have reacted.

[Barney McGrew did it]

It seems that Curry’s tip tackle wasn’t as dangerous as AWJ’s tackle tickle. It’s health & safety gone mad.

[RiscaGame]

Wow, the whole of the England team could've been cited and there would still be this victim mentality.

The only fair resolution to this is long bans, an overturned result and a gagging order placed on Uncle Eddie.

[TightHEAD]

I see the Italy v England thread has been killed off now.

This virus is nasty.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

It looked to me like AJW was just surprised, not hurt. He didn't know how his wife had got onto the pitch, looked again and thought, Bl00dy Hell, I need to go to Spec Savers.

He always has that pained, someone is squeezing my tackle look on his face, if Marler had squeezed I suspect we would have seen a bit more of a discomfort in his walk.

[SecretFly]

He always has that pained, someone is squeezing my tackle look on his face, if Marler had squeezed I suspect we would have seen a bit more of a discomfort in his walk.

I don't know. We need more hard evidence before coming to a clima..... I mean conclusion.

I say Horizon should do a documentary on the forces Marler's hand can exert on a selection of Rugby Union target zones.... for example, a one handed grip of the ball ( the inanimate one), a no nonsense grip of a neck, a shirt hold, a leg hold and a lunchbox fiddle....

Only then, will we be in a position to give a definitive opinion.

[SecretFly]

Basically if you lay a finger on Alun 'Whinge' Jones you will be cited.


Lawes is cited for a tackle on Jones. Unbelievable?

Tackling or tickling of tackle ?
.... I'm all confused. I don't know what you boys are on about

[Guest]

Marler Cited no surprise!
Also Courtney Lawes no mention Parks or Owens! unbelievable, the 17th man (citing officer)having their say now!

Was that for the illegal tackle to AWJ's head I mentioned several times?

[Guest]

Parkes and Williams not being cited is ridiculous.

What for? One being a Kiwi and the other for being a Saracen?

[mikey_dragon]

Wow, the whole of the England team could've been cited and there would still be this victim mentality.

The only fair resolution to this is long bans, an overturned result and a gagging order placed on Uncle Eddie.

Inferiority complex.

[Yoda]

Wow people really have a hard on for getting at England and English players. If any of these three get longer bans than that French Prop then world Rugby has gone potty. Some Welsh players really must be counting their lucky stars after some very dubious shots themselves. Curry's tip clear out for one and the flying headbutter parks. Hell some of the Irish clear outs against us last game were far more dangerous than any of lawes, marler and probably manu. Whos the citing officer?

[mikey_dragon]

Citing officer is Marius Yonker’s son.

[Yoda]

Citing officer is Marius Yonker’s son.

[No 7&1/2]

I'd imagine lawes walks away with nothing but marler obviously picks up a ban. Lower end I'd say (no pun) as reading the levels it seems to me to be based on grabbing and trying to hirt opponents rather than what happened. Difficult to call the level especially with his history.

[Pie]

He isn't winding anyone up, he's antagonistic because he is defensive as he knows his days are numbered. He's basically sulking

[BigTrevsbigmac]

He isn't winding anyone up, he's antagonistic because he is defensive as he knows his days are numbered. He's basically sulking

Bit harsh on AWJs

[Guest]

I'd imagine lawes walks away with nothing but marler obviously picks up a ban. Lower end I'd say (no pun) as reading the levels it seems to me to be based on grabbing and trying to hirt opponents rather than what happened. Difficult to call the level especially with his history.

Despite being in the minority of calling it on the night Lawes should clearly have been penalised with a yellow or red card. A 1 or 2 week ban isn't out of the question.

What was wrong with Tuilagi's red card?

[No 7&1/2]

I'd be surprised to see lawes receive a ban.
What's wrong with tuilagi s red? I dont know.

[Guest]

Well, excellent. That Monty Python clip does seem appropriate doesn't it.

Anyway Rhys Webb and George North came out of that with a lot of credit. It's a shame North has become the pantomime villain in recent years for the Welsh press especially since Cuthbert left and Josh Adams broke through. He had another good game I thought and Webb showed his quality. It's really just 'fronting up' in defence which is costing us. You have to ask the question 'what would we be like with Shaun Edwards'? Stephen Jones, Pivac, and Edwards: seems like the golden ticket to me, at least in practical terms.

[Rugby Fan]

I wish Jones had chosen a better case to break his silence on officiating. He hasn't illustrated any inconsistent point of law which needs addressing, and the only effect it is likely to have, is to stengthen the resolve of a disciplinary committee to establish they are in charge.

The reactions to Joe Marler are interesting. A lot of rugby players who are instinctively inclined not to view the incident harshly - from the ones I've seen, that includes Alfie, Quinlan, ROG & Shanklin - are nevertheless wary of downplaying it. Flatman saw Marler's action as the kind of rugby laddishness that gets up the noses of a lot of people. He says there's video of Marler doing the same to Alex Dombrandt after a Quins match, so it's in his repertoire.

The key really is AWJ. Shanklin says he was surprised AWJ seemed to throw Marler under the bus, when most assumed the two players would be on good terms from the Lions tour. Then again, he has a good point. It's not really clear if Marler thought he was having a laugh, or trying to get AWJ to react. The Welshman rightly points out that it was only his self-control that stopped him from clocking Marler, and drawing a harsh penalty himself. Even if Marler was trying to kid around, AWJ doesn't have to see the joke. England vs Wales is never a laughing matter, and you have to imagine the death of Matthew J Watkins will have been on some Welsh minds too.

I've seen the laws say the entry point ban is 12 weeks but it does seem as if that is a rule for bag snatching, which I don't think this was. However, the attitude of the disciplinary committee is likley to be set by AWJ. He's under no obligation to say anything else on the matter and, if that's what happens, then you'd imagine the committee would want to set an example. Marler will probably come to wish his action had been seen by the referee at the time. If he'd been shown a yellow card during the match, I doubt there would be so many calls for greater punishment.

If Eddie Jones hadn't gone off on one straight after the match, he would now be in a position to make a fair point. As it stands, England are facing the possibility of 3 players being disciplined for red card offences in one match. That would make it one of the dirtiest Test matches ever between two leading sides. Not only that, while this torrent of indiscipline was taking place, the opposition never even warranted a yellow card.

We've all seen dirty Test matches, and Saturday's game does not rank high on the list. It's not even the most fractious encounter between England and Wales. For me, it would be in order for Jones, or the RFU, to question disciplinary consistency if an innocuous match like this ends up as one of the most heavily sanctioned in history.

[Heaf]

Wow people really have a hard on for getting at England and English players. If any of these three get longer bans than that French Prop then world Rugby has gone potty. Some Welsh players really must be counting their lucky stars after some very dubious shots themselves. Curry's tip clear out for one and the flying headbutter parks. Hell some of the Irish clear outs against us last game were far more dangerous than any of lawes, marler and probably manu. Whos the citing officer?

Steve Walsh?

[yappysnap]

I wish Jones had chosen a better case to break his silence on officiating. He hasn't illustrated any inconsistent point of law which needs addressing, and the only effect it is likely to have, is to stengthen the resolve of a disciplinary committee to establish they are in charge.

The reactions to Joe Marler are interesting. A lot of rugby players who are instinctively inclined not to view the incident harshly - from the ones I've seen, that includes Alfie, Quinlan, ROG & Shanklin - are nevertheless wary of downplaying it. Flatman saw Marler's action as the kind of rugby laddishness that gets up the noses of a lot of people. He says there's video of Marler doing the same to Alex Dombrandt after a Quins match, so it's in his repertoire.

The key really is AWJ. Shanklin says he was surprised AWJ seemed to throw Marler under the bus, when most assumed the two players would be on good terms from the Lions tour. Then again, he has a good point. It's not really clear if Marler thought he was having a laugh, or trying to get AWJ to react. The Welshman rightly points out that it was only his self-control that stopped him from clocking Marler, and drawing a harsh penalty himself. Even if Marler was trying to kid around, AWJ doesn't have to see the joke. England vs Wales is never a laughing matter, and you have to imagine the death of Matthew J Watkins will have been on some Welsh minds too.

I've seen the laws say the entry point ban is 12 weeks but it does seem as if that is a rule for bag snatching, which I don't think this was. However, the attitude of the disciplinary committee is likley to be set by AWJ. He's under no obligation to say anything else on the matter and, if that's what happens, then you'd imagine the committee would want to set an example. Marler will probably come to wish his action had been seen by the referee at the time. If he'd been shown a yellow card during the match, I doubt there would be so many calls for greater punishment.

If Eddie Jones hadn't gone off on one straight after the match, he would now be in a position to make a fair point. As it stands, England are facing the possibility of 3 players being disciplined for red card offences in one match. That would make it one of the dirtiest Test matches ever between two leading sides. Not only that, while this torrent of indiscipline was taking place, the opposition never even warranted a yellow card.

We've all seen dirty Test matches, and Saturday's game does not rank high on the list. It's not even the most fractious encounter between England and Wales. For me, it would be in order for Jones, or the RFU, to question disciplinary consistency if an innocuous match like this ends up as one of the most heavily sanctioned in history.

I was surprised by this as well. Now obviously AWJ is allowed to respond how he wants. But after last years game where he targeted Synkler with loads of aggro off the ball until he was subbed, and with how he plays similarly in other games I thought he'd shrug it off, he seemed a lot more effected by it then expected and I wonder if Marler thought he'd shrug it off too, he's misjudged it if that's the case.

[yappysnap]

Also you make a good point about the number of sanctions. It seems baffling after the Ireland game, with shoulder charges in plenty of rucks totally unpunished that England have now got players getting cited.

[irfon17]

Lot of debate regarding the red card, but let's face it, in this age Tuilagi was looking at a card one way or another- (I would have preferred it to be yellow) but it happened in the final ten minutes so red or yellow makes no difference (to anybody apart from Tuilagi). Eddie Jones suggesting the referee was against England somehow is not only offensive and against the spirit of rugby, but also simply incorrect. I hope he gets sanctioned in some way, we don't want the game going the way of football, with coach's blaming every bad result of referee incompetence.

I am surprised Lawes was cited, I have watched it again and again and I don't even think it warranted a penalty (and I am Welsh). Marler on the other hand I hope they throw the book at. At first I thought it was slightly amusing (given AWJ's reaction as much as anything else), but the more I think about it, the more it brings the sport into disrepute and gives football fans priceless ammunition to disparage rugby and rugby players. To a parent whose child is thinking of taking up rugby, their predominant thoughts are now going to be head injuries and on-field sexual assault.

[Pie]

Marler will probably toss in the towel (again) he is immature to say the least and rums for momma when the pressure comes on

[Collapse2005]

Also you make a good point about the number of sanctions. It seems baffling after the Ireland game, with shoulder charges in plenty of rucks totally unpunished that England have now got players getting cited.

Nothing stood out in the Ireland game quite like the dangerous play from Tuilagi which is way too obvious and dangerous not to sanction.

I see Jones might get a ban too which is not really surprising for hinting at the ref being a cheat. This England side has a tendancy to be a bit of a cheap shot side under Jones which based on his interviews he clearly encourages. Bound to catch on him a some stage.

[Soul Requiem]

Also you make a good point about the number of sanctions. It seems baffling after the Ireland game, with shoulder charges in plenty of rucks totally unpunished that England have now got players getting cited.

Nothing stood out in the Ireland game quite like the dangerous play from Tuilagi which is way too obvious and dangerous not to sanction.

I see Jones might get a ban too which is not really surprising for hinting at the ref being a cheat. This England side has a tendancy to be a bit of a cheap shot side under Jones which based on his interviews he clearly encourages. Bound to catch on him a some stage.

As opposed to Wales and Ireland who were whiter than white

[Collapse2005]

Lot of debate regarding the red card, but let's face it, in this age Tuilagi was looking at a card one way or another- (I would have preferred it to be yellow) but it happened in the final ten minutes so red or yellow makes no difference (to anybody apart from Tuilagi). Eddie Jones suggesting the referee was against England somehow is not only offensive and against the spirit of rugby, but also simply incorrect. I hope he gets sanctioned in some way, we don't want the game going the way of football, with coach's blaming every bad result of referee incompetence.

I am surprised Lawes was cited, I have watched it again and again and I don't even think it warranted a penalty (and I am Welsh). Marler on the other hand I hope they throw the book at. At first I thought it was slightly amusing (given AWJ's reaction as much as anything else), but the more I think about it, the more it brings the sport into disrepute and gives football fans priceless ammunition to disparage rugby and rugby players. To a parent whose child is thinking of taking up rugby, their predominant thoughts are now going to be head injuries and on-field sexual assault.

What was Lawes cited for? For me the Marler incident has nothing to do with sexual assualt whatsoever as it is highly unlikely there was any sexual intent. It was more an attempt to wind AWJ up or as some people believe to be funny which is more plausable to me. He still shouldnt have done it. 1 match ban would be enough for me.

[Collapse2005]

Also you make a good point about the number of sanctions. It seems baffling after the Ireland game, with shoulder charges in plenty of rucks totally unpunished that England have now got players getting cited.

Nothing stood out in the Ireland game quite like the dangerous play from Tuilagi which is way too obvious and dangerous not to sanction.

I see Jones might get a ban too which is not really surprising for hinting at the ref being a cheat. This England side has a tendancy to be a bit of a cheap shot side under Jones which based on his interviews he clearly encourages. Bound to catch on him a some stage.

As opposed to Wales and Ireland who were whiter than white

Ireland arent a cheap shot side, they dont obsess about taking opposition players out of the game like England does. Yes the Ireland team have committed banable offenses but dont "target players" as part of a game plan like England do.

[Soul Requiem]

Also you make a good point about the number of sanctions. It seems baffling after the Ireland game, with shoulder charges in plenty of rucks totally unpunished that England have now got players getting cited.

Nothing stood out in the Ireland game quite like the dangerous play from Tuilagi which is way too obvious and dangerous not to sanction.

I see Jones might get a ban too which is not really surprising for hinting at the ref being a cheat. This England side has a tendancy to be a bit of a cheap shot side under Jones which based on his interviews he clearly encourages. Bound to catch on him a some stage.

As opposed to Wales and Ireland who were whiter than white

Ireland arent a cheap shot side, they dont obsess about taking opposition players out of the game like England does. Yes the Ireland team have committed banable offenses but dont "target players" as part of a game plan like England do.

I suppose they didn't target Tom Curry did they, all teams do it so stop with the holier than thou attitude.

[mikey_dragon]

Also you make a good point about the number of sanctions. It seems baffling after the Ireland game, with shoulder charges in plenty of rucks totally unpunished that England have now got players getting cited.

Nothing stood out in the Ireland game quite like the dangerous play from Tuilagi which is way too obvious and dangerous not to sanction.

I see Jones might get a ban too which is not really surprising for hinting at the ref being a cheat. This England side has a tendancy to be a bit of a cheap shot side under Jones which based on his interviews he clearly encourages. Bound to catch on him a some stage.

As opposed to Wales and Ireland who were whiter than white

Well I don’t know about ireland...

[lostinwales]

Seems like sometimes its only foul play if the target has (or just had) the ball.

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