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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2020, 8:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too Hug
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 11:50 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:This is looking like a terrible decision by Stokes to bat.

He's gonna have to go about justifying it himself now!...did seem a tad questionable to send an inexperienced top four in to bat with the weather forecast that was about, and with the West Indies strength clearly being their pace attack...

Might look even worse if the Windies are batting in bright sunshine tomorrow!

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:This is looking like a terrible decision by Stokes to bat.

He's gonna have to go about justifying it himself now!...did seem a tad questionable to send an inexperienced top four in to bat with the weather forecast that was about, and with the West Indies strength clearly being their pace attack...

Might look even worse if the Windies are batting in bright sunshine tomorrow!

Less so if its coming through a yard faster and Englands pace duo are splitting stumps.

I dont think anyone would have been surprised to see England put West Indies in to bat, but neither was anyone questioning the decision not to. I'd critisice Englands top 3 and compliment Garbriels discipline more than the decision to bat first if things dont go well for England. They might be inexperienced in tests but all 3 have a lot of first class under their belts and played most of their cricket in these conditions. There has to be some level of expectation from a captain that his players will do their job.

Early variable bounce doesnt suggest this pitch is going to get easy either.

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:10 pm

back on here for the first time for quite some time, crickets back on and a England top order collapse

finally feel like life's getting back to normal

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:15 pm

I don't buy into our current dicey position being the fault of Stokes choosing to bat. If England were now 70 odd for 1, we would all be content and saying that we were digging in well. The fact 2 more wickets have fallen is less to do with the conditions and more to how well the West Indies have bowled, Gabriel especially so.

As Atherton has highlighted on Sky, Gabriel's wickets have come from swinging earlier balls away and then appearing to surprise the batsman by suddenly bringing one back in. Intelligent bowling, reminiscent of Andy Roberts' thoughtful and planned approach.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:15 pm

Regardless of sun or shade I suspect there will be enough in this pitch for bowlers throughout ; so even a fairly modest score first up may justify the calculated risk of batting first.

What England don't want to do is lose a couple more this morning and find themselves shot out for 150. This and the next partnership rather important , no ?

Think West Indies have bowled quite well this morning...credit where it's due clap

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:19 pm

west indies spot on with their reviews today

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:20 pm

Bit more than dicey now but I agree with the above sentiments. England just aren't batting well enough for this quality of bowling.

How well West indies bat ( and England bowl) is yet to be seen.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:22 pm

Umpires are a bit rusty. Crawley never looked at ease in that innings and the Windies are bowling beautifully.

I would have bowled first simply because of a combination of the overhead conditions, lack of real match practice for the batsmen, and for the simple fact that bowling is both sides strength. It won't be much easier for the Windies batting second, true, but they will be heartened and feel less pressure if England are out for a cheap 200ish score.

72/4, not far from that weak lower order now.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:24 pm

compelling and rich wrote:west indies spot on with their reviews today

Just as well...umpires have been a bit too reluctant to give lbw today. I'd have given both out on field , to be honest.

With three reviews each there is a fair margin for error either way I guess.

The merits of being full and straight getting reinforced in this innings ; old fashioned though that may be Smile

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:Umpires are a bit rusty. Crawley never looked at ease in that innings and the Windies are bowling beautifully.

I would have bowled first simply because of a combination of the overhead conditions, lack of real match practice for the batsmen, and for the simple fact that bowling is both sides strength. It won't be much easier for the Windies batting second, true, but they will be heartened and feel less pressure if England are out for a cheap 200ish score.

72/4, not far from that weak lower order now.

to be fair to the umpire I thought possible inside edge, and there was a noise off the pad right before the bat. was very worried once it went to ball tracking

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:38 pm

compelling and rich wrote:west indies spot on with their reviews today

Yes, but for this series there is an extra review in each innings which helps and encourages it to be used.

In recent years, we've seen some ghastly goofs by third umpires but tbf Michael Gough appears calm and to know what he's doing in that role. For Crawley's dismissal, he took time to check that the spike being shown on UltraEdge was from the pad and before the ball reached the bat (''clear daylight between bat and ball'' in his words) before jumping to a conclusion.

I actually thought the ball from Holder that got Crawley was going down leg but I was wrong there. Like Duty, I was absolutely sure in real time that Burns should have been given out by the on field umpire.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:40 pm

Really lovely nagging line and length from Holder, probably the most improved player in world cricket over the past few years.

87/5 and we get to ask the age old question - will England make 200?

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:40 pm

More gifting of wickets by England. Its good balls too but do think some of this is batsmen just not being in full focus and form after the long break without cricket.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:41 pm

The Pope not infallible then Smile

This is looking very fraught : if Buttler is ever going to justify the faith now would be a good time...

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:53 pm

This is usually the point where we are glad Woakes and Mo are at 8 and 9

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:54 pm

Wouldn't be against Stokes and Buttler trying a counter attack here...
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:05 pm

Comfortably the Windies session, excellent bowling from Gabriel in the first hour and Holder in the second, but it's still in the balance. Stokes and Buttler could counter and haul England up to a respectable and defendable 250...or the whole thing could collapse in an unceremonious heap and England end up 138 all out.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:14 pm

One Day Training Squad:

Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain, Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Tom Banton (Somerset), Sam Billings (Kent), Henry Brookes (Warwickshire), Brydon Carse (Durham), Tom Curran (Surrey), Liam Dawson (Hampshire), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Laurie Evans (Sussex), Richard Gleeson (Lancashire), Lewis Gregory (Somerset), Sam Hain (Warwickshire), Tom Helm (Middlesex), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Phil Salt (Sussex), Reece Topley (Surrey), James Vince (Hampshire), David Willey (Yorkshire).


Worcestershire's Pat Brown, Sussex's Chris Jordan and Yorkshire's Dawid Malan were not considered for selection due to injury.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:16 pm

Looking slightly ahead - hopefully, at least a few hours - this innings would be a good time for Archer to show he can hold a bat at the highest level.

Six fifties and an average of almost 26 at first class level. However, a top score of just 30 and an average of only 8 from his twelve Test completed innings. Important that gulf lessens.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm

Think a lot depends on this partnership now. Wood and Archer might throw the bat a bit but I wouldn't back either of them to get many in these circumstances : Bess might ?
As Olly suggests a bit of a counter attack might be best tactic... Stokes likes to take the fight back to the enemy , and although Buttler has tried to adapt his game to the needs of Test Cricket and rein in his attacking style , he has never really looked convincing at it. Frankly they'll need a bit of luck anyway . If England can turn this into 200 they'll have done well.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:53 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Wouldn't be against Stokes and Buttler trying a counter attack here...


Yeah Pope tried that! On that subject Agnew is getting absolutely rinsed on TMS after mentioning he was learning karate yesterday. Worth listening to his interview with Ed Smith about the white ball training group if you get the chance, the tone of his voice when he says "right..." after the explanation of Englands treatment of Mo is priceless.

Duckett and Topley back in the mix is interesting, but I suspect a few names are there very much to make up numbers especially with the injuries. Smith is talking up the benefits of being able to have large training groups for all formats even if they cant pick everyone. Trescothick helping out with the batting coaching.
Clarification around the reserves, they are sitting out the white ball training group but are training for tests. The Ireland game squad will come from the white ball training group (so largely a B team game), although they may shift a couple of people around (Mahmood being the specific case whos covering for Stone in the test reserves whos apparently injured).

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 1:56 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Looking slightly ahead - hopefully, at least a few hours - this innings would be a good time for Archer to show he can hold a bat at the highest level.

Six fifties and an average of almost 26 at first class level. However, a top score of just 30 and an average of only 8 from his twelve Test completed innings. Important that gulf lessens.

Having only watched Archer in an England shirt (apart from the odd t20 league rubbish) I find those figures hard to believe ! Must be true I suppose but he's looked like a right bunny when I've been watching... Wonder how "first class" the bowling always was ?

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:00 pm

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Looking slightly ahead - hopefully, at least a few hours - this innings would be a good time for Archer to show he can hold a bat at the highest level.

Six fifties and an average of almost 26 at first class level. However, a top score of just 30 and an average of only 8 from his twelve Test completed innings. Important that gulf lessens.

Having only watched Archer in an England shirt (apart from the odd t20 league rubbish) I find those figures hard to believe !  Must be true I suppose but he's looked like a right bunny when I've been watching...  Wonder how "first class" the bowling always was ?

They are just talking about this on TMS, he was sold very much as an all rounder coming into international cricket but really has just chucked the bat so far. Hes clearly better than his test average, but not as good as his first class one. Woods not exactly a rock either, but his batting does feel underrated.
Its by no means the worst tail England have ever had even if it isnt quite Bairstow, Mo, Woakes, Curran, Plunkett

Buttler not holding back when its on to be hit.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:12 pm

For my money Mark Wood should be batting above Archer, his batting has improved a lot in the past year or so and got some invaluable runs against South Africa, he is a hitter but has decent technique whereas Jofra's technique looks somewhat amateurish.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:14 pm

Bowling not quite so sharp since the break ? Tiring a bit maybe...Gabriel not looking near as dangerous.
Think Holder might be back pretty soon.

A problem for the tourists is that Joseph has been very much a fourth seamer so far.

High boundary count for a modest scoreline. Guess attacking field has a bit to do with that. 125/5 ...next half hour important.

Oh blimey...Stokes has his lucky hat on ! That was a sitter...

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:14 pm

Stokes dropped twice now; that last one was an absolute sitter.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:14 pm

Oh wow Stokes dropped - an absolute dolly at cover.
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:16 pm

We might see Chase twirling a few in a bit. Might tempt Stokes into an overly ambitious shot.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:16 pm

Overly specific stat of the day ...Anderson is the 3rd player to take 100 plus wickets over the age of 35, all of them had a better average over 35 than in their younger days. Andersons taken 107 at a shade under 21. Quite a thing.

Stokes dropped again ...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:18 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Overly specific stat of the day ...Anderson is the 3rd player to take 100 plus wickets over the age of 35, all of them had a better average over 35 than in their younger days. Andersons taken 107 at a shade under 21. Quite a thing.

Stokes dropped again ...

I wouldn't say no to an Anderson, Hadlee and Walsh attack, what was it all three of them averaging around 21 over 35?


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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:30 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Overly specific stat of the day ...Anderson is the 3rd player to take 100 plus wickets over the age of 35, all of them had a better average over 35 than in their younger days. Andersons taken 107 at a shade under 21. Quite a thing.

Stokes dropped again ...

I wouldn't say not an Anderson, Hadlee and Walsh attack, what was it all three of them averaging around 21 over 35?

Think so yes.



Partnerships going well and showing that England couldve been sat a lot prettier had just one or two of the batsmen hung around a bit more. Pope really must be kicking himself. Gabriels not bowling as fast as he was. That said Stokes can count himself lucky hes here to cash in. Faced more balls than anyone else in the innings though.


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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:30 pm

It's seriously impressive stats for all three.

Walsh was always quick of course but a few commentators often commentated that the slower he bowled the more dangerous he looked. Similar with McGrath. Of course bowling within yourself is easier if your top speed is express!

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:31 pm

Fifty stand ...needed that ! Some luck gone England's way but these two are making the most of it.

Gabriel concedes a lot of boundaries ; and he's starting to look pretty ragged now. And the run rate is ticking up. West Indies might rue those dropped catches when this is all done...

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:31 pm

This looks a pitch where 250 will be competitive.

I think Stokes and Buttler are doing the right thing by attacking and getting the scoreboard ticking.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:33 pm

Run rate going up towards 3 as this partnership is really starting to hurt the tourists.

Not enough dots being bowled, and the field is likely to have to go into retreat.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:33 pm

king_carlos wrote:It's seriously impressive stats for all three.

Walsh was always quick of course but a few commentators often commentated that the slower he bowled the more dangerous he looked. Similar with McGrath. Of course bowling within yourself is easier if your top speed is express!

That's true of Anderson too, he was more than capable of bowling at 90mph but always looked better taking a yard off his pace.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:41 pm

Roach really hasn't had much luck in this innings , has he ? Yet to strike ; but I reckon he has been the pick of the bowlers overall.

Wonder at what point Holder tries to mix it up with a bit of part time slow filth ?

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:43 pm

This is pretty dire now, going to need that Anderson magic!

Kiss of death from Alfie


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:43 pm

Wow, thought Stokes was destined for a century, but Holder had him tied down with more good bowling.

Windies back on top. They'll still fancy rolling England out for sub-200.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:44 pm

Aargh...Stokes maybe got a bit too cute there and nicks Holder behind...

Six gone now : that partnership had steadied things but there is still a lot to do. What are the bowlers good for ?

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:51 pm

alfie wrote:Aargh...Stokes maybe got a bit too cute there and nicks Holder behind...

Six gone now : that partnership had steadied things but there is still a lot to do.  What are the bowlers good for ?

Aargh indeed! I was beginning to think it was Stokes' day. Dropped twice and I even wondered if the ball before his dismissal Dowrich could have tried to throw down the stumps - Stokes certainly was a fair way down the track when he missed it.

Currently 156/6. Would like another 70 or so from Buttler and the tail.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:52 pm

Looking at the pitch I reckon this already enough for England to have a first innings lead, that Windies batting line up is awful.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:53 pm

Oh dear!

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:54 pm

Now a rout...very concerning. Holder laying down the gauntlet to Stokes in battle of the all rounder capatins.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:54 pm

Sorry if I did that ! Think Stokes might be a bit annoyed at getting out like that. He didn't really need to force things , there were enough balls coming down to score off without trying tricks so all that walking down strikes me as unnecessary risk. If he'd played straight he wouldn't have edged that.

Buttler seems to have settled in quite nicely now...oh scratch that picard

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:54 pm

That's a top, top catch. Holder has bowled tremendously today. Apt reward.

West Indies will be hoping they can wrap up the tail quickly and that some bad light descends pronto - don't think they'll fancy batting much later on today against Anderson. But tomorrow looks much better.


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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:55 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Looking at the pitch I reckon this already enough for England to have a first innings lead, that Windies batting line up is awful.

\Its fair comment but England are going to be hard pressed to make 200. As bad as West Indies are 200 should be achievable in any conditions. England will have to bowl well to force it, and every run counts now. No room for sloppy fielding and looseners.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:58 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
king_carlos wrote:It's seriously impressive stats for all three.

Walsh was always quick of course but a few commentators often commentated that the slower he bowled the more dangerous he looked. Similar with McGrath. Of course bowling within yourself is easier if your top speed is express!

That's true of Anderson too, he was more than capable of bowling at 90mph but always looked better taking a yard off his pace.
True. Anderson had to completely rebuild his action after the early mucking about, then injuries though. When he broke through he was bowling seriously quick and had a brutal yorker. More reminiscent of Gough but with a bit more pace than of the bowler he's become.

His longevity has been remarkable.

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Post by alfie on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 2:58 pm

Was a fine catch , indeed. Holder has bowled well , as you'd expect.

Handy innings from Buttler...best he's played for quite a while. But once again , much like Denly , he's not been able to go much past thirty. Trouble with this England lineup is that too many of them average about thirty for a reason...

Need the tail to gather a quick forty odd more now. Possible I guess. Bit surprised Archer has come in before Wood but perhaps they are trying to encourage him to play properly.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 3:01 pm

Unorthodox defense from Bess in that over Shocked

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