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Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 05 May 2020, 6:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

mikey_dragon wrote:It’s an unfortunate coincidence I think, but his injury record was exemplary before he linked up with Bath.

His last lengthy injury was a collarbone issue suffered in a Wales training camp. Probably a bit of a mixed bag. It's hard once you start getting injuries to get out of the cycle as often one leads to another, Falatau managed to break the same arm some four or five months apart. Something Billy Vunipola managed as well.

I think Carlos is right. With the financial squeeze clubs are going to look for more value for money and less marquee names. Johnny May certainly found that when he went to discuss his new contract as did Ben Youngs.

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Post by SirBurger on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 2:07 pm

Those ratios match what seems to be happening across the league. 18 players said to be leaving at Irish with only 7 or so coming in. A lot of those in the squeezed middle are going to have to drop down a league or possibly retire I would expect.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 2:31 pm

Agreed. Tigers have released a lot of senior squad men with their replacements bring development level players. I think all squads will be running in a similar way. Bad time for a lot of solid pros who would have previously walked into contracts at another Prem club or championship. Now their options might just be ProD2 or Japan.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 3:40 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:They're keeping matavesi ? Interesting.

They've lost Burns and released Davies so now have no senior flyhalf bar Priestland. Homer who'd be the most likely other cover has also gone. Matevesi wouldn't be ideal but he would be an option at both 10 and 12 similar with young Redpath. I'd have thought Bath will announce at least one more senior flyhalf though.

In his total time here i would say Matavesi is a frustration as much as people probably saw Twelvetrees.

He has all the attriubtes to be a real deal top class 12...but rarely puts in a performance that puts all those attributes together. When he does on the rare occasion he can win games.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 5:12 pm

Juan Schoeman is brother of Pierre who plays for Edinburgh - if Juan is as good as his brother then that’s a great find for Bath. Have Bath confirmed Faletau as leaving yet?

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 5:36 pm

Faletau is still in contract with Bath is he not? He's not on the list of leavers that they published today anyway.

If there's any truth to the Times article about the WRU having to cut the regions funding I doubt that they will be buying him out of contract either.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 5:58 pm

I thought he wanted to leave? And Bath are tired of him being injured. I heard the WRU were keen to have him back but as you say that might have changed now. I think the government would bail the WRU out if needed.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 6:14 pm

I thought the connection with Ospreys was solely to do with Toby Booth joining them. The only report made on it was The Rugby Paper and then others picking up on their report, such as Wales Online although they stated in their article that they didn't think Ospreys had made contact with Faletau.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 6:29 pm

Bath might have been willing to let Falatau leave at the right price. I doubt the WRU can now afford that, I doubt the Ospreys nor the WRU want to take on Falatau's salary either and Bath will no subsidise it in order for him to move.

Juan Shoeman sounds a bit like a journeyman to be honest, a quick Google suggests he's struggled to nail down the starting role anywhere. Bath do have a good scrum coach though and aren't desperately short at loosehead so looks more like a bit of a punt.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 6:47 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:Apparently there will be a separate announcement about another FH, no reason given for the delay in the announcement.
Disappointed Homer is going, but he turned down a contract offer and looks to be another having a go in Japan. Everyone is pleased Will Spencer is rejoining - should never have left along with Devoto.

The startling news in all this is that sixteen senior players, including Louw's retirement, are leaving and only five plus a FH are joining. A great deal of emphasis is being put on newly promoted (and cheaper) academy players moving into professional contracts. Some strong potential but time will tell.

Striking how many players,who dont have Test background, are leaving for the French D2. There appears to be some big team budgets around.
Could that be down to the ever stricter Jiff rules in the Top 14 resulting in less spaces for their teams to sign foreign players?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 05 Jun 2020, 7:03 pm

The Faletau rumour was also word of mouth but like I said at the time I don’t think there is a region who can fit him in - it certainly wouldn’t be Dragons. He was linked with Ospreys - that would be a super signing for them although they’d also need Gareth Evans to stay fit.

Dragons could have done with a 120kg LH like Schoeman, but we don’t even have a forwards coach yet.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 06 Jun 2020, 12:03 pm

We have Mefin Davies.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 06 Jun 2020, 12:35 pm

RiscaGame wrote:We have Mefin Davies.

I forgot. He was scrum and assistant forwards coach at Wuss, is it the same role with us?

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 06 Jun 2020, 2:05 pm

I thought he was just forwards coach, same as Ceri. Luke Narraway is also more involved (I think).

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 06 Jun 2020, 3:14 pm

Marcos Ayerza once said Mefin Davies was the best technical scrummaging hooker he played with. That's quite a complement so he should no what he's doing at scrum time and whilst at Tigers his lineout work was good.

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 10:15 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Apparently there will be a separate announcement about another FH, no reason given for the delay in the announcement.
Disappointed Homer is going, but he turned down a contract offer and looks to be another having a go in Japan. Everyone is pleased Will Spencer is rejoining - should never have left along with Devoto.

The startling news in all this is that sixteen senior players, including Louw's retirement, are leaving and only five plus a FH are joining. A great deal of emphasis is being put on newly promoted (and cheaper) academy players moving into professional contracts. Some strong potential but time will tell.

Striking how many players,who dont have Test background, are leaving for the French D2. There appears to be some big team budgets around.
Could that be down to the ever stricter Jiff rules in the Top 14 resulting in less spaces for their teams to sign foreign players?

Not sure if this new or not, but the last high profile UK player to move was Finn Russell? What is newer are the budgets in the D2, which as they don't have stadia to build or maintain on minimal rent, must leave owners with ambitions for team squads.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 12:53 pm

Times reporting that the seven Sarries players leaving for the Championship season are:

Malins and Earl to Bristol
Goode to Japan
Isiekwe to Saints
Lozowski to Montpellier
Singleton to Glaws
Tompkins to Cardiff

Lamisitole has signed Montpellier having turned down the chance to extend then loan next season. Ben Spencer has obviously gone to Bath. Kruis has gone to Japan but could return in the future.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 1:16 pm

Again really pleased singleton and malins are moving. The latter should really take off at bristol.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 2:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Again really pleased singleton and malins are moving. The latter should really take off at bristol.

Take off before heading back to Sarries as better players? Earl and Malins will certainly fit in perfectly at Bristol.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 3:38 pm

Malins just needs a run of games. At any other club he'd be a fixture in the side by now.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 5:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Malins just needs a run of games. At any other club he'd be a fixture in the side by now.

He's had a couple of unlucky injuries at times when he's been establishing himself. Be interesting to see where he fits at Bristol who have both an established 10 and 15.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 6:19 pm

Bristol's 2020/21 squad announcement had Radrada listed as a centre and Malins as back three.

9.Randall
10.Sheedy
11.O'Connor
12.S Piutua
13.Radrada
14.C Piutau
15.Malins

9.Uren
10.Eden
11.Fricker
12.Bedlow
13.Leiua
14.Purdy
15.Morahan

Plus Ratu Nualago as a project on the wing. Ioan Lloyd is exciting too at 10.

There's a lot to like in the Bristol squad for next season.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 9:16 pm

Would love to attend a few Bristol games next season and watch some of those names. 

Sam, how true is Tompkins to Cardiff? I heard that was off due to it being just for one season, in which case Dragons were set to take him on. It seems we were due to announced a few signings but then took a long time to make the reveal official (like with Holmes). Still yet to announce Tomane - could be off now I guess, especially if D2 are that rich.

Serious question, do Montpellier have many French players in their 23? What were the rules on that again?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 07 Jun 2020, 10:22 pm

Mikey don't know how true but it's what The Times are reporting today. Tompkins has a contract beyond the end of next season with Sarries I think and I doubt the WRU are willing to buy him out and I doubt Sarries would be particularly interested in negotiating that. 

Carlos the backline looks tasty but there isn't much depth up front. Even with Sinckler joining most clubs would fancy taking their front five on. Tigers took them to task up front this season and we were pretty mediocre. Turn the game into an arm wrestle and they are targetable. Second row options aren't anything to shout about and the loosehead options are nothing short of weak. Could be a long season for them with Sinckler's call ups if Afoa gets an injury, he's now 36 going on 37 I'm not sure how much rugby he'll be able to play.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 10:47 am

Is that Alex Goode off to Japan aswell?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 10:53 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is that Alex Goode off to Japan aswell?

Yes.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 11:08 am

Ah right...hadnt heard that one. Nice little money earner for him.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 11:10 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is that Alex Goode off to Japan aswell?

He's expected to do a single year over there. Get a new experience, bit of cash and the shorter season will help his body rest a little. He's what 32 now? So good choice really. Sarries will want him when they are back in the Prem.

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 12:14 pm

Joe Marler has re-signed with Quins. Given his current and pretty huge contract was signed when he had retired from internationals - hence was available all season - this one will presumably be a fair bit smaller.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 12:55 pm

Couldn't believe he is only 29 (albeit nearly 30). Thought he was more Cole's age. Whilst his England eligibility might have lowered his value slightly he's been in a good negotiating position with the Quins scrum looking only ok and with Sinckler leaving.

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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 5:53 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Marcos Ayerza once said Mefin Davies was the best technical scrummaging hooker he played with. That's quite a complement so he should no what he's doing at scrum time and whilst at Tigers his lineout work was good.

Thanks for that.

Blues supporters will not be happy, if they have loaned Tompkins. They see it as a waste of money, for what they will see of him.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 6:04 pm

Depends what percentage of his salary the Blues have agreed to cover.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 7:34 pm

Not sure if that’s a good deal for Blues. They have some good centres already in Halaholo, Lee-Lo, Millard - Amos as the utility - Evans and Thomas to step in at 12 which actually worked very well. 

Either way I hope we definitely get Tomane.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Mon 08 Jun 2020, 8:35 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Not sure if that’s a good deal for Blues. They have some good centres already in Halaholo, Lee-Lo, Millard - Amos as the utility - Evans and Thomas to step in at 12 which actually worked very well. 

Either way I hope we definitely get Tomane.
Would be an excellent signing if he continued his form he showed in the latter half of his Leinster career.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 10:52 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Depends what percentage of his salary the Blues have agreed to cover.

Even factoring in them paying 20%, I don’t think they were too chuffed.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 11:25 am

RiscaGame wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Depends what percentage of his salary the Blues have agreed to cover.

Even factoring in them paying 20%, I don’t think they were too chuffed.
Rumours I've heard are that Sarries will be eating a bit more than 20% of the contract for several players being loaned out in order to get them back. Even Falcons ate a big chunk of Mark Wilson's contract with him being at Sale this season. Given that Falcons are approaching broke I think it's safe to say Sarries can afford it with Wray still bank rolling them.

At the end of the day Sarries would lose a lot more in terms of investment longer term if they lost half a dozen international quality academy graduates.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 11:40 am

RiscaGame wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Depends what percentage of his salary the Blues have agreed to cover.

Even factoring in them paying 20%, I don’t think they were too chuffed.

20% would be a bargain there's no chance Tompkins is in the top 5 best paid players at Sarries and I doubt very much he's even in the top 10 (Itoje, Vunipola X2, Farrell, Koch, Williams, Goode, Kruis, George, Skelton maybe even Isiekwe and Singleton). Doubt he's on more than £250k probably less as he agreed his contract back in 2018 (announced Nov 2018 so started 2019). He would therefore cost very little if Cardiff only paid 20%. As Lee-lo is now 34 and the other option appears to be Millard a former age grade player who hasn't stepped up and made a name for himself at 23 then Tompkins would walk into the starting line up and join Halliholo in an all (cough) Welsh centre combination. Be a good midfield.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 11:51 am

Nah, I know.

Perhaps it was a little bit of pretence, when Dragons were placed as favourites to loan him.

Very interesting KC, thanks.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 12:18 pm

Don't think it was on here from earlier so to add it in

Andrew Davidson (lock) moves from Glasgow to Edinburgh. One department to another.

Probably puts a bit more steam in the Nakarawa staying put at Glasgow for a season and Edinburgh's Hunter-Hill off to Sarries.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 1:22 pm

Didn’t know Lee-Lo was 34 but probably has another 2 seasons in him being an islander and all. The rest would have helped him and will have certainly helped the injured Halaholo. Halaholo and Lee-Lo at 12 and 13 are their best midfield. I’m not sure where Tompkins would fit in given he can’t defend from outside centre. He’s more of a 12 for me where Halaholo holds the jersey, unless Blues shift a fly-half to perform the second five-eight role. Millard is 13 cover - he’s probably not going to be a world beater any time soon but is good cover nonetheless.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 1:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Didn’t know Lee-Lo was 34 but probably has another 2 seasons in him being an islander and all. The rest would have helped him and will have certainly helped the injured Halaholo. Halaholo and Lee-Lo at 12 and 13 are their best midfield. I’m not sure where Tompkins would fit in given he can’t defend from outside centre. He’s more of a 12 for me where Halaholo holds the jersey, unless Blues shift a fly-half to perform the second five-eight role. Millard is 13 cover - he’s probably not going to be a world beater any time soon but is good cover nonetheless.
Harsh to judge Tompkins defence based solely on a unfinished 6 Nations under a new coaching set-up and defensive system, mikey. Sarries have a stronger defence than many international sides and Tompkins has been an outstanding member of that from 12 and 13.

It's important to remember he's only played 4 tests. When Jon Davies and Ma'a Nonu debuted as internationals their passing game was dire for centres. There was a point in Foxy's career where people commonly joked that he thought the touch judge was a teammate due to passes frequently sailing into touch. They both developed to be excellent distributors.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 1:39 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Nah, I know.

Perhaps it was a little bit of pretence, when Dragons were placed as favourites to loan him.

Very interesting KC, thanks.

Could have been a Sarries negotiating tactic. They aren't fussed where Tompkins goes for next season as long as he's happy and they get him back for their next Prem campaign. Tompkins might not be so fussed as long as he's playing in Wales so as to keep his eligibility intact and push for a Lion's place.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 3:19 pm

king_carlos wrote:
It's important to remember he's only played 4 tests. When Jon Davies and Ma'a Nonu debuted as internationals their passing game was dire for centres. There was a point in Foxy's career where people commonly joked that he thought the touch judge was a teammate due to passes frequently sailing into touch. They both developed to be excellent distributors.

Including, I believe, his then attack coach at Scarlets.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 3:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
It's important to remember he's only played 4 tests. When Jon Davies and Ma'a Nonu debuted as internationals their passing game was dire for centres. There was a point in Foxy's career where people commonly joked that he thought the touch judge was a teammate due to passes frequently sailing into touch. They both developed to be excellent distributors.

Including, I believe, his then attack coach at Scarlets.
I have heard similar I must say...

A bit similar to Andy Robinson having some very forthright views about Tom Voyce who his assistant coaches rated somewhat higher than he did by my understanding.

Even as Tigers and Lenny fan I must admit I laughed a lot during the Squidge rugby YouTube analysis of England vs New Zealand in the Rugby World Cup whilst he's narrating on the build up to Manu's try. I think Squidge is commentating on Youngs throwing a flat pass across two forwards to Ford and he says somethings along the lines of, "ingeniously England are wearing a shirt the same colour as the touchline so Ben Youngs manages to accidentally pass his teammate the ball".

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 09 Jun 2020, 5:51 pm

laughing

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 17 Jun 2020, 10:57 am

Tim Swinson signs a 12 month contract with Saracens. With all their locks (pretty much) departing for at least next season, it makes sense. Means Swinson is able to play for his local club from childhood and gives Sarries an experienced head. Also means a rapid reversal of Swinson's retirement - who will be a busy lad as he aims to continue with his duties as chair of the Scottish players association, and his law degree at Robert Douglas University.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 17 Jun 2020, 11:20 am

Makes sense as a signing for Sarries. Itoje won't want to be playing a lot of Championship games. I presume Sarries will retain Hunter-Hill as well.

Had Swinson's contract expired or was this a retirement of convenience similar to a certain South African.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 17 Jun 2020, 11:27 am

He announced his retirement about 4 weeks ago. At 33 and starting a Law Degree it does not feel the same as Goosen.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 17 Jun 2020, 11:38 am

To be honest, I wish Swinson the best. Last season Glasgow were overstocked at second row and two young players have left already because of it (Henderson to Leicester and Davidson to Edinburgh).

Even with the youngsters leaving, he would likely be fifth choice. Glasgow are in a rebuilding phase and Swinson does not fit the age profile or move the needle.

For Sarries, it is a good move. He still has a bit left in the tank and will be more than enough against semi-pros (if that now) in the Championship.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 17 Jun 2020, 11:53 am

Solid signing for Sarries. If Kruis returns to the Premiership he's said he'd only want to play for Sarries anyway.

I'd imagine the Kpoku twins and Hunter-Hill will get a lot of game time next season. Hunter-Hill has looked a decent line-out leader for Sarries this season and the Kpoku's are physical freaks. Plenty of damage will be done in the Championship by those three.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 8:39 am

Saints really thinning down their squad this month:

Northampton Saints can today announce that Andy Symons, Fraser Strachan and Devante Onojaife will be leaving the Club on the conclusion of their contracts on June 30.

That is on top of Michael Van Vuuren and Toby Trinder who's departure was announced earlier this month and Ben Franks retiring and going into coaching.

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