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Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 05 May 2020, 6:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

mikey_dragon wrote:It’s an unfortunate coincidence I think, but his injury record was exemplary before he linked up with Bath.

His last lengthy injury was a collarbone issue suffered in a Wales training camp. Probably a bit of a mixed bag. It's hard once you start getting injuries to get out of the cycle as often one leads to another, Falatau managed to break the same arm some four or five months apart. Something Billy Vunipola managed as well.

I think Carlos is right. With the financial squeeze clubs are going to look for more value for money and less marquee names. Johnny May certainly found that when he went to discuss his new contract as did Ben Youngs.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 8:55 am

I wonder if Scarlets ask Franks to do a player-coach role in his first season, their one TH is pretty old so maybe two old guys could share the position with Lee, that could work.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 9:02 am

mikey_dragon wrote:I wonder if Scarlets ask Franks to do a player-coach role in his first season, their one TH is pretty old so maybe two old guys could share the position with Lee, that could work.

Saints website said that he is retiring from professional rugby.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 9:35 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I wonder if Scarlets ask Franks to do a player-coach role in his first season, their one TH is pretty old so maybe two old guys could share the position with Lee, that could work.

Saints website said that he is retiring from professional rugby.

Remember Glenn is a mate of his, so never say never Wink.

Damn, if Saints actually had those Franks brothers on the pitch they would have been a great team.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 10:39 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I wonder if Scarlets ask Franks to do a player-coach role in his first season, their one TH is pretty old so maybe two old guys could share the position with Lee, that could work.

Saints website said that he is retiring from professional rugby.

Remember Glenn is a mate of his, so never say never Wink.

Damn, if Saints actually had those Franks brothers on the pitch they would have been a great team.
Saints aren't short of props to be fair. Ehren Painter has been improving rapidly, Francois van Wyk is a solid loosehead and Alex Waller is a top Premiership player - though his form this season and last was a bit below his best.

Chris Boyd has put together a really impressive squad in my opinion. It's a smaller Prem squad so there's quality right across the board and some really impressive young players coming through.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 11:20 am

Yeah I have noticed their strength in the front 5 is quite impressive.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 2:31 pm

Josh Hodge confirmed to Exeter...great move for Exeter...they have an unreal talent on their hand.

But as a falcon fan...i dont think ive been more pi$$ed off or annoyed.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:08 pm

Hodge looks a star in the making. A good signing for Chiefs and probably Hodge given he will learn from Hogg and player under Ali Hepher leading the backs.

Brutal for Falcons though.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:12 pm

Well its just demoralising KC...whats the point bringing talented kids through.

Some VERY unhappy falcons fans...and the fact we heard from Exeter...and not from the Falcons...

I think we're in serious trouble.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:19 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well its just demoralising KC...whats the point bringing talented kids through.

Some VERY unhappy falcons fans...and the fact we heard from Exeter...and not from the Falcons...

I think we're in serious trouble.
I can imagine the feeling GF. When Harry Thacker and Will Evans were confirmed as leaving Tigers I felt similar to what I imagine you do now. Hodge is arguably even more talented than either.

I think it's particularly frustrating with players who are fun to watch and always seem to have positive impacts. I wouldn't argue that Thacker or Evans have no weaknesses as players but when both played for Tigers they always seemed to be prominent players with a lot of skill.

I think John Wells interview about leaving Falcons summed up the financial struggles there pretty well. With Semore Kurdi reducing his funding it's got to be a tough club to run at present.

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Post by Welly on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:32 pm

I mean I did kind of say re Falcons a bit ago.

Don't know about the Thacker and Evans comparison.
Thacker got 50 caps for Tigers at least he was given a go, and IMO his scrummanaging weakness is a big negative espcially since the scrum is something Tigers have always targeted.
Evans suffered from a lot of injuries, and then MOC Frak it up with his selections.

Hodge would be like losing Steward.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Can understand the annoyance from the Falcons fans. They normally get a couple of seasons from their best talent before it's poached. Hodge is off without even building up the highlight reel.

Hogg is pretty much the ideal international for him to learn off and Chiefs will give him a great platform to play from.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jun 2020, 4:23 pm

Interestingly enough many of the Falcons fans are blaming Deans refusal to give young kids the games they need...tending to hold them back TOO long.

I actualy agree with that...he'll get games at Exeter..

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:05 am

Welly wrote: I mean I did kind of say re Falcons a bit ago.

Don't know about the Thacker and Evans comparison.  
Thacker got 50 caps for Tigers at least he was given a go, and IMO his scrummanaging weakness is a big negative espcially since the scrum is something Tigers have always targeted.
Evans suffered from a lot of injuries, and then MOC Frak it up with his selections.

Hodge would be like losing Steward.
The John Wells interview was chatted about on this thread I believe (or might have been the Falcons one) a wee while back. None of us argued that Falcons are in a good position. I think that we'd see a lawsuit from Falcons and Semore Kurdi before they went under if it was going to happen off the back of having no games/income whilst the other 12 PRL shareholder clubs were playing rugby.

I was comparing how disappointed I was to hear that Thacker and Evans were moving on. Just two players who I loved watching play and had high hopes for. Perhaps Sam Costelow would have been a better comparison to Hodge. I think I described hearing confirmation Sam was leaving as a gut punch. Which probably sums up how most Falcons fans are feeling.

Steward's highlight video that went up on YouTube the other day is a good watch if you haven't seen it, Welly. I'm really excited by the potential of 11.Nadolo 14.Veainu 15.Steward. That'd be the best balanced Tigers back three since Tait, Goneva and Thompstone at their peak.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:19 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Interestingly enough many of the Falcons fans are blaming Deans refusal to give young kids the games they need...tending to hold them back TOO long.

I actualy agree with that...he'll get games at Exeter..

The Championship is the best chance most Prem teams get for blooding a large number of youngsters and building the foundations for year to come. If Deano hasn't taken the opportunity then that is not a good move.

Agree on that back three Carlos. Lot's is potential there, not many teams will want to kick to contest against them either what with the height advantage of Nadolo, Steward and then TVs leap and ability to make teams instantly regret giving him the ball in space. Steward does have some rough edges that need polishing but all the attributes are there as he's big, deceptively quick, great hands (stepping in at first receiver at times for Lough Uni) and he's got a big boot on him. Just got to make sure he's an dominant in the air as his frame suggests and that his kicking is accurate because the Prem isn't very forgiving for wayward kicks. Given his frame and age I wouldn't be surprised to see him add a stone or maybe more to his weight as well.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:46 am

He was injured for the first part of the season Sam, played one game against Leeds where he scored a blinder then following his apprenticeship appearance in the England squad we never saw him again.

I think I described hearing confirmation Sam was leaving as a gut punch. Which probably sums up how most Falcons fans are feeling.
Theres some real venom in the falcons fans at the moment...the tactics, the style, the predictable boring rugby.

A real lack of the kids getting gametime in the championship...
3 young England scrum halves...not a single minute last season
1 young England FH Haydon Wood, not a minute,
Hodge 1 game
Scotland U20 number 8...not a single minute,
Josh Basham England u20 player...not a single minute...
Guy Graham (Garys young brother) not a single minute
etc etc etc

Yes we have poor financial issues everyone knows that and John Wells interview did nothing to ease those worries.....however we have a strong academy, and we DO attract big name players.

Dean is a problem now...a dinsosaur unfortunately.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:58 am

Being a pedant I'm not sure I'd agree on the weight part. If he puts it on naturally filling out then fair enough but I'd say he's a very similar build to Jordie Barrett having seen both up close. He's already got the size to be more physical than most fullbacks.

Someone such as Harry Mallinder for instance I wouldn't say has improved as a player by bulking up a bit. I always thought he looks best when searching for the off load and space rather than contact. Since returning from injury and playing fullback again he seems to have gone back to that kind of player though. The attack Vesty has built at Saints is impressive so it should suit Mallinder.

Steward's only 19 so needs experience but Louis Rees-Zammit has shown how quickly players can settle into senior rugby in the back three.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 11:45 am

I was thinking more that he'll mature physically between 19 and 21 than he needs to hit the gym and bulk up. Players of similar build like Jordie Barrett or previously Matt Smith were 15 to 16 stone and I'd expect him to end up similar. The Tigers website has him at nearly 16 stone already but I don't trust that much as according to them Harry Wells is 19 stone. 

If he was to be in the gym working on anything it would be explosive acceleration. We know he's quick with that long stride but any extra acceleration you can manage particularly over the first 5m becomes increasingly important the higher up the rugby ladder you go.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 1:35 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:I was thinking more that he'll mature physically between 19 and 21 than he needs to hit the gym and bulk up. Players of similar build like Jordie Barrett or previously Matt Smith were 15 to 16 stone and I'd expect him to end up similar. The Tigers website has him at nearly 16 stone already but I don't trust that much as according to them Harry Wells is 19 stone. 

If he was to be in the gym working on anything it would be explosive acceleration. We know he's quick with that long stride but any extra acceleration you can manage particularly over the first 5m becomes increasingly important the higher up the rugby ladder you go.
All good points to be fair Sam.

I'll be interested to see where Callum Gibbins ends up having been released by Warriors. Have Glasgow fans heard any rumours? He's a strong flanker and good leader so shouldn't be short of offers. His style of play would suit most Premiership clubs IMO.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 2:03 pm

Gibbins is probably another one of those pros that assumed he'd get another decent contract before heading home but is now left high and dry. Covid plus the RFU ravaged Championship means there's no fall back option for a lot of senior pros out of contract.

Adam Thompstone is another one that had he been released last summer would have already signed a deal with a Championship club by now if not a Prem one. Instead he appears to be in limbo.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 7:00 am

TRP has Veainu and Lavanini likely leaving Tigers for opportunities overseas. Same with Tom Marshall at Gloucester.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 10:03 am

Margin_Walker wrote:TRP has Veainu and Lavanini likely leaving Tigers for opportunities overseas. Same with Tom Marshall at Gloucester.

Rumours started swirling earlier in the week with Lavanini. Not all players are going to want to accept pay reductions. They will have better options elsewhere and those two Tigers in particular will walk into a lot of sides. The time Lavanini spent players for the Jags and TV spent down in NZ will have done for either's bank balance so they won't want reduced contracts now, particularly TV who's about to hit 30 and has had little luck with injuries. He might only have three top end years left, one big contract in Japan might suit him perfectly.

Tigers have confirmed they have the funds to meet the salary cap next season though so this could be moves happening next summer before the salary cap reduction. Be a big blow to Tigers to lose them both.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 11:04 am

Gutted about Hodge Crying or Very sad

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 11:16 am

Pretty much the opposite on the positive thoughts I had with Malins. How many chances is he going to get at exeter?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 11:20 am

Probably more than he would playing Deano I imagine. You need to be over 30 to stand a chance of getting near the squad.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 11:32 am

Ha. Probably right.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 12:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pretty much the opposite  on the positive thoughts I had with Malins. How many chances is he going to get at exeter?

Max Bodily has left Chiefs, Dollman must be almost at the end of his career and I think James Short has now left as well. There's still competition for the wing places but he will get the 15 shirt whenever Hogg isn't there. At his age you want to be drip fed games so you learn and develop you don't want masses is pressure weighing you down as you try and learn.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 22 Jun 2020, 11:03 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Gutted about Hodge Crying or Very sad

Dont worry mate,we have......... Arscott and Tait. Wink

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 8:38 am

RUCK is headlining that Dan Biggar is being linked with a shock move from Saints.

Beziers are suddenly cash rich due to a buy out and want Biggar, Barret and Nonu as well as Cheika for coach.

Can someone please confirm to me that I have been asleep for a long time and that it is 1st April.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 10:18 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:RUCK is headlining that Dan Biggar is being linked with a shock move from Saints.

Beziers are suddenly cash rich due to a buy out and want Biggar, Barret and Nonu as well as Cheika for coach.

Can someone please confirm to me that I have been asleep for a long time and that it is 1st April.
No idea about the Biggar situation but rumours that Tigers might lose Veainu and Lavanini. I think a lot of Prem clubs will lose players. Even with the salary cap still £6.4m next season it is coming down to £5m the season after. Bigger names with lots of options will be wary of staying in the Premiership if wages will inevitably drop.

Biggar is a marquee so a different position with regards to the cap but if a French club are offering a big payout and Saints need cash then there could be truth in it.

The Premiership isn't alone though obviously. The rumoured budget cuts for the regions from the WRU are catastrophic.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 10:35 am

king_carlos wrote:

The Premiership isn't alone though obviously. The rumoured budget cuts for the regions from the WRU are catastrophic.

They were. I believe they are taking out a loan now, to allow them to provide the usual budgets?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 11:14 am

I'd imagine a lot of the Prem clubs are already negotiating contracts with key players ahead of the salary reductions starting 2021. They'll need to know early doors who is up for staying and who isn't. Whether they keep those players for 2020-21 or let them go early will depend on relative squads and financial constraints. I'd be annoyed and surprised if Tigers allowed Lavanini to walk away after only one season as our chairman has already said we have the budget to spend to the cap. I expect a lot of young guys to get blooded next season so they are more prepared for the season after the salary reductions where they will probably play more games.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 11:34 am

RiscaGame wrote:
king_carlos wrote:

The Premiership isn't alone though obviously. The rumoured budget cuts for the regions from the WRU are catastrophic.

They were. I believe they are taking out a loan now, to allow them to provide the usual budgets?
Is that confirmed? My understanding was that the WRU were seeking a loan, much of which would be onward lent to the regions but it wasn't confirmed. You'll be much better informed than me with regards to regional rugby though I will readily admit, Risca.

Martyn Phillips wrote:"Without it we would have little income or funding to re-invest. The professional game will bear the responsibility for servicing the loan, but will also benefit from any bounce back of any financial revenue over performance in future years.
"Meaning, in that regard, the professional game bears both the risk and the reward. Our goal, like with our semi-professional and community clubs, is to ensure all four regions survive this crisis."

I think that sums up the pros and cons of the potential loan pretty well from Martyn Phillips. I would say it sounds like the WRU and regions have communicated the situation to players with regards to wage cuts better than some others have. Thus far there has been little news of player unrest coming from the regions.

The WRU are hugely reliant on taking from Millennium Stadium games to survive though. Similar to Scotland with Murrayfield games but the SRU have 2 pro teams to support as opposed to 4.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 1:29 pm

I don't think it has been confirmed yet, I just vaguely remembered seeing it on the weekend. I only read it here.

Argus Story:
"In terms of the future, nothing changes," said Ryan. "The model of us going into private ownership is something that the chairman, David Buttress, feels very passionately about as do I, to get independence from the WRU.

"The timelines have changed, for obvious reasons, but it has not gone away. If anything, some of the challenges that we have faced over these months has galvanised opinions.

"On the field, I believe that we can support and retain our best players. I also believe we can add to them and are becoming a place that people want to be at.

"That doesn't leap us forward two or three years, what it does say is there is real optimism about the place and I don't believe what is going on now has dampened that."

The Covid-19 crisis is putting all professional sports teams under financial pressure and the WRU intend to take out a loan with the bulk of the money going to help the four regions.

"This is only right, as the international and professional game is the financial powerhouse of Welsh rugby," said WRU chief executive Martyn Phillips.

But with games set to be played behind closed doors for the foreseeable future, all clubs are looking at cutting costs.

"At Dragons we are pretty used to running a tight ship. When people ask us to tighten our buckle, we have been there before. That stands us in good stead," said Ryan.

"This is an organisation is that is trying to get ready to grow. That may be slower than we would have wanted, but it's not going backwards. That has been helpful in this period."

They are definitely reliant on Wales games being allowed supporters again though, as well as hosting other Principality Stadium events such as trying to get Boxing etc. I wonder if the loan will just be a readjustment of the stadium loan again? I don't know where things are with that, as I haven't heard anything of it since a number of years back when Roger Lewis increased the payments, to pay off the debt quicker.

It will be interesting times. Two of the Welsh pro teams are in pretty good health financially (Ospreys and Scarlets), so may not feel the pinch so much. Scarlets are certainly looking like they are strengthening already.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 1:39 pm

Blues are probably the worst now though!

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 2:37 pm

Dragons are heavily reliant on a couple of investors for their recruitment pot increasing in the recent seasons are they not though Mikey? Signings such as Moriarty. Particularly Moriarty as it wasn't a DNC.

I don't know the position at Dragons specifically but I do fear that a lot of investors in rugby will tighten the purse strings in the wake of covid. It's only natural that if their businesses are affected then there will be a knock on effect down the line. I could see there being somewhat a reset in the escalating wages of recent seasons in the UK. For the top players in particular.

Moriarty signing for a wage bigger than the top DNC bracket would be an example there. From Tigers (using as an example given it's my club) I can't see the likes of Ford and Manu getting anywhere near their current contracts come re-signing. Both are rumoured to be around the £500k mark. It's huge money for players that also get £25k for each England appearance when they aren't available for club rugby.

I think it will be interesting to see where wages settle over the next couple of seasons. France and Japan will likely be the big lure for Southern Hemisphere players leaving Super Rugby once again.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 4:51 pm

I don't think we have any investors Carlos. We have one but he's like 50% owner anyway, not sure what he actually invests. That is Moriarty's old contract. His new one is probably the same wage except it's 60-70% paid for by the WRU.

Wales are looking to arranged a few more matches to address the shortfall, but unless the WRU borrows then they and the Regions will go bust. I don't think they will allow that to happen.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 9:43 am

Williams Confirmed to Scarlets....

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 9:59 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Williams Confirmed to Scarlets....

Disappointing. Good acquisition for Wales and another blow for England as that's a other good 12 option joins Pivac's Pilfering. 

Big loss for Newcastle as he was a real touch of class for their midfield. I doubt very much they'll be able to replace him.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 10:21 am

We're relegated already Sam, and the current season hasnt even finished!!

I can only hope for ringfencing...

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 10:27 am

You never know Geordie you haven't seen all your signings for next season yet.

Tigers have picked up Rebels utility back Harry Potter (media team dream signing) for next season. English born and raised before his parents emigrated to Sydney. Played for Sydney Uni under the incoming Tigers attack coach. 22 year old plays centre and wing and is supposed to be quick and physical. Should be a decent punt and provide some entertaining headlines, Tigers announcement of the signing reads "You're a Tiger Harry" so prepare for many more.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 11:05 am

Popcorn day at Tigers Blake Enever joins from the Brumbies now. A twice capped 18 stone Aussie lock who is apparently good at the set piece. Don't know much about him but hopefully he's as good at the set piece as alleged.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 11:23 am

Not the most inspiring signings, especially if Veainu and Lavanani rumours are true.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 11:37 am

LondonTiger wrote:Not the most inspiring signings, especially if Veainu and Lavanani rumours are true.

Lol in the last couple of months we've lost...

Johnny WIlliams
Sane Takulua
Josh Matavesi
Tom Penny
Josh Hodge

Not a bad backline in the making there!

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 11:49 am

LondonTiger wrote:Not the most inspiring signings, especially if Veainu and Lavanani rumours are true.

Agreed. All I can comment on from Potter is his YouTube reel. He looks physical for a winger (a bit similar to Nick Malouf) so might suit Premiership rugby but he's a project player at this stage. Given he's young enough to come under the academy ceiling next season he might even be named in the development squad.

Enever is a player I've noticed little of whilst watching a fair bit of Super Rugby. I'm not saying he can't be a solid Premiership lock. The type who always seems to be in matchday 23 for most your league games in a season. Bressler at Worcester, formerly Mitch Lees at Chiefs, Chris Vui for Brizz, Bryn Evans for Sale a few years back, etc. Enever is unlikely to change the fact that our lineout locks lag way behind most clubs the league though.

They are two signings I would have been pleased with in addition to Alemanno or Orie and a winger such as Lewington. Obviously the transfer market has changed drastically but if we lose Lavanini and Enever was 'the international lock' signing that Smurf has hinted at then I'll be very worried about our locks next season.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 12:03 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Not the most inspiring signings, especially if Veainu and Lavanani rumours are true.

I presume these guys were agreed before Covid. I sense our new attack coach doing a bit of scouting for us and our head of recruitment using his contacts.

Losing TV and Lavanini would be a blow as there really aren't like for like replacements available to us.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 11:26 am

Saracens sign ex Harlequin Sloan from Ealing

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 5:58 pm

Jan Uys from Brive to Bulls. It seems Jake White might not be getting Grobler or du Plessis. Jason Jenkins might still be heading back to Pretoria.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 6:38 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Jan Uys from Brive to Bulls. It seems Jake White might not be getting Grobler or du Plessis. Jason Jenkins might still be heading back to Pretoria.

Quick look at his highlights and he loves an offload doesn't he. Only 26 as well. Could be quite a coup that.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 26 Jun 2020, 10:14 am

Nick Tompkins to dragons is confirmed. Tomane, Rowlands, Lavanini and Carre next Wink.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 26 Jun 2020, 11:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Nick Tompkins to dragons is confirmed. Tomane, Rowlands, Lavanini and Carre next Wink.

You might get two of those dream four. Tompkins will add something to your midfield he's a quality player.

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