The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Next steps for england.

+21
TightHEAD
BamBam
mikey_dragon
TJ
Cumbrian
BigTrevsbigmac
MichaelT
cb
formerly known as Sam
WELL-PAST-IT
Rugby Fan
doctor_grey
Mr Bounce
king_carlos
Gooseberry
nlpnlp
GeordieFalcon
Poorfour
lostinwales
LondonTiger
No 7&1/2
25 posters

Page 3 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:33 am

First topic message reminder :

Theres a couple of articles on the BBC which to me indicate exactly where england need to step up in the 6 nations. One by Matt Dawson :

'To win a World Cup, you have to be able to adapt under the biggest pressure and on the biggest occasion.

That is what the All Blacks or South Africa would do. That is what England did in 2003.

It is not always going to go your way. Even if you are overwhelming favourites, you will play some games that you know you should win that you will end up losing.

That is why I am even more pleased with England's Autumn Nations Cup sudden-death win in extra time against an inexperienced France side.

England were matched physically up front and if you look at the previous occasions when that has happened they have usually lost the game. This time they dug themselves out of it.

Eddie Jones' side are naturally going to be favourites in most matches for the next two or three years but they are going to play against teams that are not as good on them on paper but can match them if they play out of their skins.

That is what France did. They were missing so many stars who were unable to play because of an agreement with the Top 14 league but there were plenty of good French players with the potential to light it up.

No matter the circumstances, you have got to know how to win games and this was a classic example from England.

England have a chance at the Grand Slam when the Six Nations starts in two months, but they will only win it if they take their opportunities.

They have a good cycle of fixtures, with just two away matches, against Ireland and Wales.

France's performance in Sunday's final showed that the Six Nations is going to come down to them and England.

Les Bleus are the only team in the northern hemisphere that can physically compete with England over 80 minutes.

France's second team were playing at Twickenham, but a full-strength side will travel to south-west London in March for the penultimate round of the Six Nations.

To win that match, England will have to be more accurate than they were on Sunday.

They are only going to get three opportunities against a side like France. They have to score at least two of those chances if they want to win the game.

England scored one try against France, when Luke Cowan-Dickie went over in a maul
In the final, France did not get many chances. You might even argue they had one chance, and they scored one try through Brice Dulin.

That is the standard required. England, on the other hand, should have scored at the end of the first half when they were camped on France's line.

There were two chances when Elliot Daly passed to Anthony Watson on the right wing. The first, Daly passed a bit too early, and the second went to Watson's feet. They should have scored at least one of those.

'England need to recognise prime time to attack'
I want to know what England are doing in training in terms of attack. Time after time there are opportunities that England are not going for.

I do not look at the England side and see a huge threat in the backline even though individually you look at the players and think how good they are. It is all so lateral.

Against France, they went through all their usual kick and chase protocols and there were overlaps they did not want to attack.

On a couple of occasions it could be argued that it paid off because they got three points from the ensuing penalty but other times those decisions could have got them in trouble.

You get into the habit of not being able to complete those processes. If you are in the groove and used to doing it you get ruthless and you finish people off. The attack just does not seem joined up to me.

Rather than keep kicking the ball away, they need to recognise when it is prime time to attack, and England have the skills to be able to do it.

'We've not seen what Farrell has to offer this autumn'
England captain Owen Farrell has so much to offer but we have not seen it this autumn and I do not know why.

He missed four kicks against France, including one that could have ended the game early in sudden death.

All kickers, even at the standard of Owen Farrell, have off days. Most kickers would have either passed the baton on to George Ford or would not have got the ones under pressure.

The fact that he still had the mental capability to kick the penalty that won the game under the most pressure shows the animal that he is.

My concerns around Owen are just that we talk about him being a points machine but he has so much more.

For England he has been a ferocious tackler, distributor, creative player but maybe his role has slightly changed now.' And money and care:

Monye: "If this team are to win the World Cup they have to evolve their game in attack. Do you have the game to chase the game?

"England aren't going to be on top in every game they play from now to 2023. If they are to be the number one team in the world, they need to show more in their attack.

"If their attack could match their defence, this team won't be beaten. At the moment they leave the doors open for teams to get at them. It's not about being the best in the northern hemisphere, it is about beating New Zealand, beating South Africa."

Care: "When you are winning games every week and building momentum, it's because of the nuts and bolts of their game - their set-piece, brutal defence and kicking game - you probably take things like finishing four on threes for granted a little bit.

"They probably train a similar way, exactly how they play - kick chasing, waiting for errors, and they probably haven't spent an awful lot of time developing their attacking game. They are suffering almost from their own success, beating teams without having to do an awful lot."

I mean its blatantly obvious given how good our defence and set piece is (even under pressure by Woki and France) that the attack stick out like a sore thumb. We kicked alot, but kicked poorly. Normally over long and not contesting for the ball a great deal of the time (in the air). 2 things from the articles were that chances were created that should have been finished (France) and how different would we see it had Daly not butchered them. Personally I think we were a little too conservative and slow which led to alot of inaccuracies. We just didnt seem to hit the switch as we've done so well under Jones previously. It was only in the last game where Robson seemed to up the tempo and we started to look a bit more lively.

To me there is a serious question for all the back line bar Jonny May on left wing (watson to me is a question of right wing or full back). That question is there as I'd like a better balance in midfield and a new 9 and 15 but also because I dont see the point in having 2 perceived ball players in midfield playing the current tactics. May as well find our new noon and tindall.

The balance to that is that we've won the lot this year so my complaints are merely about consolidating our place in the pecking order through improvement not standing still. I think the 6 nations is a great chance to pick up a grand slam with the way the fixtures fall this year.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

lostinwales and mikey_dragon like this post

Back to top Go down


Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:03 pm

Billy didn't have his usual impact in attack during the ANC but I thought it was the best his defence has been for a long time. 15-20 tackles with most of them behind the gain line is easy to take for granted when he does it so consistently. He made a few really dominant hits over the tournament.

If he gets another injury then I'd really like to see Earl starting with Underhill and Curry. Earl's pace always stands out when he's played. England haven't had that kind of pace in the forwards since Croft. He's a real weapon in attack.

Earl and Willis have definitely earnt their places as the first reserves to Billy, Underhill and Curry.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by doctor_grey Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:09 pm

It's a great problem to have, but I don't think we actually know the best back row combinations. Billy V. Underhill, and Curry. Then Earl and Willis, as you mentioned, maybe Barbeary after his injury and if someone can figure out his best position, as well as Simmonds and Dombrandt. The position has never been this deep.

We have a full season and probably two to figure it out, but it would be fun to see each have a reasonable shot.

doctor_grey

Posts : 9597
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:27 pm

All kickers, even at the standard of Owen Farrell, have off days. Most kickers would have either passed the baton on to George Ford or would not have got the ones under pressure.


The fact that he still had the mental capability to kick the penalty that won the game under the most pressure shows the animal that he is.


I don't get this. He's a leader, good leaders do what's best for the team even if it's to their own detriment. Farrell refused to accept his own weakness and do what the team needed and five the kicking duties to Ford. He was selfish rather than selfless. That's not strength.

It's not the forwards who need looking at. The backline is the issue, there's no balance and players are picked repeatedly despite not performing well enough in the position in which they are picked. Daly isn't an international fullback and a midfield of Farrell and Slade does not work and never has. We've got to build a backline with some running threat as opposed to just pace.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16587
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:31 pm

It's an important point on the leadership. Clearly farrell is a great leader I dont take seriously anyone who suggests hes not. I would live to know what conversations went on within the leadership group though ie did anyone say to him you've having the jitters today throw the ball to Ford? The fact hes captain maybe meant no one brought it up whereas if it had been itoje as a random example he may have just taken it out of his hands.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by TJ Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:33 am

Owne Farrell is not that great a kicker.  70odd % is not great

What he is good at is those real pressure kicks - he holds his nerve well but his overall kicking stats are not world class

TJ

Posts : 7968
Join date : 2013-09-22

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by Cumbrian Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:54 am

Since there doesn't seem to be much traffic on this site anymore I haven't bothered creating a separate thread for this, but the U20s squad has been announced:

Forwards:
Ben Bamber (Bristol Bears)
Harvey Beaton (Saracens)
Phil Brantingham (Newcastle Falcons)
Lucas Brooke (London Irish)
Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby)
Luke Green (London Irish)
Alex Groves (Bristol Bears)
Lewis Holsey (Worcester Warriors)
Ethan Hunt (Gloucester Rugby)
Emeka Ilione (Leicester Tigers)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers)
Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby)
Marcus Rhodes (London Irish)
Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby)
Sam Riley (Harlequins)
Ethan Staddon (Bath Rugby)
Freddie Thomas (Gloucester Rugby)

Backs
Charlie Atkinson (Wasps)
Seb Atkinson (Worcester Warriors)
Deago Bailey (Bristol Bears)
Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby)
Oscar Beard (Harlequins)
Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints)
Will Joseph (London Irish)
Dan Lancaster (Leeds Tykes)
Tommy Mathews (Northampton Saints)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Fin Smith (Worcester Warriors)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)

I haven't get up with age grades in recent years, but my friend who has says that this could be another golden generation of players. There are a fair few with recognisable names (Zizan's son and Stuart Lancaster's boy). Will Joseph is JJ's brother. A few like Charlie Atkinson, George Martin and Jack Clement have already had game time for their clubs. Strange not to see Phil Cokanasiga (probably getting time with his club though).

I've done a bit of research on the players preferred positions and the squad seems stacked with No.8s and 10s, but few natural opensides flankers or inside centres. Although I would bow to the greater knowledge of others on this.

The one that interests me is Ben Bamber, he is only 19 and already 6ft 8in and 20 stone! He was also nicked from Huddersfield Rugby League academy so you would assume he has a degree of fitness/ athleticism.
Cumbrian
Cumbrian

Posts : 4640
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 38
Location : Bath

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:39 pm

Not looking good for Saints then, they would normally have a lot more than two in a squad that size.

I wonder if skill sets do actually run in a person genes? You see so many siblings and offspring of both club and international players coming through these days. Is Zinzan happy about his son wearing the Red Rose?
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3163
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:17 pm

Genetics no doubt play a role in all sportsmen but sons/brothers of top players often also play the game from a young age with good teachers. Lucas Brooke and Dan Lancaster will likely have been taught how to tackle by their dads for instance. Will Joseph will have learned by playing 1 v 1 with JJ in the back garden.

Martin and Bamber would be an absurdly large U20 lock pairing.

Jack Clement is really impressive in contact too. Reminds me of another Gloucester academy graduate in Aaron Hinckley at age grade.

As always there's a lot of talent in that group.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:11 pm

George Martin and Jack van Poortvliet both looked at home again for the senior Tigers side today against Bath. They are ones to watch in that U20 squad.

Freddie Steward put in his best performance yet in senior rugby as well. Definitely looked the more assured fullback out of him and Watson.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by lostinwales Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:12 pm

Part of me just wants to see Ethan Hunt up against Tom Cruse.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11280
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:03 pm

You reckon Ribbans will get capped?

mikey_dragon

Posts : 12748
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by nlpnlp Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 pm

1
king_carlos wrote:George Martin and Jack van Poortvliet both looked at home again for the senior Tigers side today against Bath. They are ones to watch in that U20 squad.

Freddie Steward put in his best performance yet in senior rugby as well. Definitely looked the more assured fullback out of him and Watson.

Jack van Poortvliet looked a definite improvement when he came on for Ben Youngs today. Saying that, I thought Ben Spencer looked a class above Youngs.

With my Sale hat on it is disappointing to see no Sale forwards in the u20 squad. I think this is an unwelcome effect of stacking our squad with so many South African forward imports. The backs look a bit more promising, where there have been a lower number of imports brought in. It was disappointing to hear Steve Diamond say that Sale had a good mix of players - 50% English and 50% South African. I am expecting to see a South African coach brought in to keep the Bok players happy. With so little competition for Sale in the North West, they should be able to have the pick of local players, but we seem traditionally to lose a lot of players to teams down south. The North isn't that grim a place to live, so I think there is definitely a recruitment issue! I am old enough to remember when Orrell, Broughton Park, Liverpool St Helens, Waterloo, Preston Grasshoppers, etc were all decent teams in the North West and Yorkshire had Rotherham and Leeds in the Premiership. Rugby League certainly hasn't had any impact, as union has recruited far more players from them than they have from us.

nlpnlp

Posts : 412
Join date : 2011-06-14

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:19 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:You reckon Ribbans will get capped?
It would need the majority of Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury, Hill and Ewels to be unavailbale at the same time to get a cap in the current pack. Judging by training squad selections when injuries have struck Ribbans and Moon are next inline after those 6 who have already been capped.

Cracking player but the lock depth is very good.

I think Jones will soon start looking at players from the recent U20 squads that offer something different to the incumbents. That's what he did with Tom Curry when he stood out as a young player offering different skills to Robshaw and Haskell. I could see Joel Kpoku or George Martin being around training camps this time next season.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:25 pm

nlpnlp wrote:
king_carlos wrote:George Martin and Jack van Poortvliet both looked at home again for the senior Tigers side today against Bath. They are ones to watch in that U20 squad.

Freddie Steward put in his best performance yet in senior rugby as well. Definitely looked the more assured fullback out of him and Watson.

Jack van Poortvliet looked a definite improvement when he came on for Ben Youngs today.  Saying that, I thought Ben Spencer looked a class above Youngs.
I thought from around the 20 minute mark until he was subbed Youngs showed his best form for a while. His tap and go created the try which sparked Leicester revival.

Spencer almost had the opposite game. Prominent for 20 minutes then faded out the game a bit. I still wonder if something unreported went on behind the scenes with Spencer. He was promising for England when Jones capped him then was dropped out of nowhere and hasn't had another look. He was also the only EQP Sarries first team player who signed a permanent deal elsewhere rather than going on loan - though Singleton is now staying with Gloucester. Both situations seem a bit odd for such a promising player.

Jack is very talented. Cracking pass and a huge boot for a scrum-half that allows him to hang a lot of height on his box kicks. Working with Wigglesworth as a coach will hopefully help his development.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:34 pm

king_carlos wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:You reckon Ribbans will get capped?
It would need the majority of Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury, Hill and Ewels to be unavailbale at the same time to get a cap in the current pack. Judging by training squad selections when injuries have struck Ribbans and Moon are next inline after those 6 who have already been capped.

Cracking player but the lock depth is very good.

I think Jones will soon start looking at players from the recent U20 squads that offer something different to the incumbents. That's what he did with Tom Curry when he stood out as a young player offering different skills to Robshaw and Haskell. I could see Joel Kpoku or George Martin being around training camps this time next season.

Fair. I wouldn’t begrudge Ribbans getting a cap, he’s been playing very well. Ewels is okay, Hill is predominantly a back-row isn’t he? Kruis is in Japan. A cap could come sooner rather than later for one of Moon or Ribbans.

Didn’t realise George Martin was still an U20. I just watched him play for Tigers against Bath, he didn’t look out of place.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 12748
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:53 pm

As far as I know Jonny Hill has never played flanker.

Moon was released from the training squads earlier than Ribbans when players returned from injury so presumably Ribbans is the closer of the two. Worse players have certainly been capped before. He's a really good player.

Martin and Kpoku are both big talents. Martin stands out defensively where he makes a lot of dominant tackles whilst Kpoku is a powerful carrier. Both are lineout leaders as well which is unusual for 20 stone locks of their age.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by mikey_dragon Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:58 pm

Oh, I thought you were on about Ted Hill!

Whilst worse players have been capped before, depth is no longer an issue for England. I can still remember when they struggled to find halfbacks and centres. Certainly not the case now.

mikey_dragon

Posts : 12748
Join date : 2015-07-25

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:39 am

Looks like no supporters at Twickenham for the Scotland game. Given issues of cancelled games scotland must fancy this being their best chance to win in England for quite a while.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:11 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Looks like no supporters at Twickenham for the Scotland game. Given issues of cancelled games scotland must fancy this being their best chance to win in England for quite a while.
Some small concerns with players being rusty due to cancelled games but Scotland having injury issues in key positions and England getting some players back from injury largely cancel them out.

Lawes is back fit and Nowell will hopefully be fit again as well. Whilst Marler, LCD and Wilson are getting minutes under their belt. Sinckler showing form for Bristol is big for England as well. I'd expect Wilson to return to the training squad but Earl and Willis to hold their places ahead of him in matchday squads following good performances in the ANC.

As far as I know none of the recent squad have new injury issues which would rule them out. Only notable absentees are Kruis and Tuilagi. Kruis was known for a while and Manu being injured the squad has had to deal with before.

With the form Marcus Smith has shown I'd really like him to be in the squad ahead of Umaga. I just think Smith is the more complete player.

The other change I'd be excited to see is a fullback such a Hodge or Steward training with the senior squad to pressure the incumbents in the back three.

Overall they've got a squad in a very settled place though.


Last edited by king_carlos on Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:19 pm

Agree on Smith. Would love to see Steward and Randall be rewarded with their early season form too. Willis starts at 8 again this week as well.

I wanted a few of the younger guys to get a run last month hope they do this time. We should be looking at a grand slam and developing the squad.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:05 pm

Cumbrian wrote:

I've done a bit of research on the players preferred positions and the squad seems stacked with No.8s and 10s, but few natural opensides flankers or inside centres. Although I would bow to the greater knowledge of others on this.

The one that interests me is Ben Bamber, he is only 19 and already 6ft 8in and 20 stone!  He was also nicked from Huddersfield Rugby League academy so you would assume he has a degree of fitness/ athleticism.

Well we have quite a few "opensides now who are all young so thats not an issue..and we can welcome a few more 8's.

Hes a big chap indeed!

Young Brantingham is our young Loose head. Hes rated incredibly highly...but im avoiding praising him..as the last one i kept praising ended up retiring due to injuries...


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Agree on Smith. Would love to see Steward and Randall be rewarded with their early season form too. Willis starts at 8 again this week as well.


Jones has to be keeping an eye on Steward.

Do you mean Jack Willis at 8 or his brother?

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:19 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Agree on Smith. Would love to see Steward and Randall be rewarded with their early season form too. Willis starts at 8 again this week as well.


Jones has to be keeping an eye on Steward.

Do you mean Jack Willis at 8 or his brother?
Jack is starting at 8 this weekend with younger brother Tom on the bench.

Tom Willis is another impressive young back row it must be said.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:27 pm

With a lot of games getting cancelled they may well have a XV vs XV training game the weekend before the Six Nations similar to what they did to replace the Baabaas fixture.

The weekend before the first round Jones has usually kept most his squad in camp with fringe players and those returning from injury heading back to the clubs for game time. I could see another training game happening though if players are short of minutes.

Worth noting that Ealing, Sarries and Doncaster are going to play a round robin tournament starting on 16th Jan as well. Whilst a long way below Six Nations standards that would at least mean that the Sarries players get on a pitch and have some sort of blow out. Billy in particular is thought to need minutes under his belt to get match fit according to Jones himself.

1.Vunipola 2.George 3.Sinckler 4.Itoje 5.Lawes 6.Curry 7.Underhill 8.Vunipola
9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Slade 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Daly

1.Marler 2.Cowan-Dickie 3.Stuart 4.Launchbury 5.Hill 6.Willis 7.Earl 8.Wilson
9.Robson 10.Ford 11.Thorley 12.Lawrence 13.Marchant 14.Nowell 15.Steward/Hodge*

*apprentice player malarkey

It would allow them to keep the squad in their bubbles to reduce chance of covid outbreaks and would be a pace of rugby much closer to international than many will have had recently with the interruptions.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:15 pm

king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Agree on Smith. Would love to see Steward and Randall be rewarded with their early season form too. Willis starts at 8 again this week as well.


Jones has to be keeping an eye on Steward.

Do you mean Jack Willis at 8 or his brother?
Jack is starting at 8 this weekend with younger brother Tom on the bench.

Tom Willis is another impressive young back row it must be said.

Yes I say again as Jack has played there a few times. Pretty good at the base of the scrum. Watch him mess up now.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 am

Tom Willis has been starting regular at 8 aswell though hasnt he?

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:07 am

When shields has been injured yes.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:34 pm

There are some rumblings of French clubs withdrawing from European comps; wonder if this could affect the 6Ns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55587044

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by doctor_grey Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:There are some rumblings of French clubs withdrawing from European comps; wonder if this could affect the 6Ns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55587044
I think it really starts to beg the question whether Rugby should be suspended during the severe lockdown. I certainly hope not but the Covid numbers are worse than anyone could have predicted.

doctor_grey

Posts : 9597
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:39 pm

Well if the French are pulling out of the 6n...sod them. We run it anyway..5 nations...or bring Georgia in IF the want to keep it a 6n.

Dont let france hold everyone hostage.

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:00 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well if the French are pulling out of the 6n...sod them. We run it anyway..5 nations...or bring Georgia in IF the want to keep it a 6n.

Dont let france hold everyone hostage.
I don't know the specifics but the large French audience is vital to the TV revenue from what I understand. Without crowds the Unions need that TV revenue to keep afloat. Hopefully it will go ahead as needed given the FFR will need that revenue as well.

The sticking point with European games is due to home nations clubs/provinces/regions testing on Monday, whilst the French clubs test players on Wednesday. Testing on Monday leaves more time and opportunity for players to catch coronavirus between testing and travelling for the games at the weekend.

To be honest I think the French clubs have a very good point there and from what I've heard the home nations clubs are changing their testing protocols to come in line with the Top 14 clubs.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:17 pm

Sinckler being cited for swearing at the ref and a 2 week break being announced by Premiership Rugby after the European postponement could see Sinckler miss the start of the Six Nations.

I'd actually be pretty excited to see Will Stuart get a chance to start a game.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 am

Wil Stuart has been excellent so i would have no complaints with him Starting. Big powerful guy.

But Sinckler is excellent when fit and firing, and offers that Mako type playmaking prop...

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by lostinwales Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:54 am

A surprising amount of agreement for this place. Sinckler a wonderful player on his day but we won't miss him too much with Stuart filling in.

More concerned about who is next in line. Harry Williams?

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11280
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:11 am

Williams is solid and a grafter aswell 7.5. Not the best but he wont let you down at international level either.

After that though...its a little bare i think. How is Painter developing?

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Williams is solid and a grafter aswell 7.5. Not the best but he wont let you down at international level either.

After that though...its a little bare i think. How is Painter developing?

Not as fast as one would have hoped, not even the first choice at Saints at the moment with Hill getting most starts
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3163
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by Gooseberry Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:33 am

Looking at Englands schedule they've got a nice ramping up with two relatively easy home games first up then an away trip to Wales who are a bit all over the place. France at home is a huge match, then hopefully facing an Ireland with nothing to play for in the potential slam game. For a team thats aiming to win every game its about as good a list of fixtures as you could ask for. If there are changes to the side and style of play they have the opportunity to bed that in early and build momentum, its certainly better to have those softer fixtures early.

Not to say its a given by any means, but its a great opportunity for England. If they lose games its because they aren't as good as they are aiming to be. There is still that question mark about them bottling big games too I guess, winning the ANC the way they did only papers over the fact that a second string France had them on the ropes the entire game and playing well below the level they'd expect.

FRU seem pretty set on going ahead with 6 nations participation in spite of pulling the clubs form European fixtures which is good. Do we know if they are "bubbling" squads fore the duration of the tournament rather than sending players back to clubs who aren't selected/during fallow weekends? I'm assuming thats the case and that its not just driven purely by the financial implications of France withdrawing.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8056
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:56 am

Odogwu for an Italy run out?
And Lawrence for the 13 spot.

13 Lawrence
14 Odogwu

Some nice pace and power there...

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:01 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Williams is solid and a grafter aswell 7.5. Not the best but he wont let you down at international level either.

After that though...its a little bare i think. How is Painter developing?

Not as fast as one would have hoped, not even the first choice at Saints at the moment with Hill getting most starts
Paul HIll...he was another one with huge expectations wasnt he. How is he playing?

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:12 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Odogwu for an Italy run out?
And Lawrence for the 13 spot.

13 Lawrence
14 Odogwu

Some nice pace and power there...
Odogwu put in the most complete performance I've seen from him in senior rugby against Bath but I'd still take Thorley as a powerful runner on the wing and probably take Radwan over either. I think Radwan has the best all round game out of any of the young wingers available.

Lawrence was strong against Ireland before injury so I think we will see him starting more and more games.

Marchant is in great form and was capped young by Jones so is clearly rated highly. I think he might get opportunities on the wing if injuries struck.

Nowell is meant to be nearing fitness as well.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:37 am

Interesting story about Radwan KC is that whilst he was in our academy about 17 / 18 year old...he was released as not being good enough. He went away and trained hard then trialed again and was accepted back in. The rest is history...

Just shows hes got a good attitude in him aswell..he'll get his head down and work.

What i like about him is he has developed some real powerful yet lean muscle on him. He's not afraid to get stuck in when he needs to.

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

king_carlos likes this post

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:53 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Williams is solid and a grafter aswell 7.5. Not the best but he wont let you down at international level either.

After that though...its a little bare i think. How is Painter developing?

Not as fast as one would have hoped, not even the first choice at Saints at the moment with Hill getting most starts
Paul HIll...he was another one with huge expectations wasnt he. How is he playing?

Not well enough to be back in the England camp at the moment. The whole Saints front row seems or seemed until the Worcester game to be out of sorts, no matter which combo plays.

KC, Odogwu looked like he could be a replacement for Manu the way he played, it wasn't just raw power, but the ability  to just stop or slow down for half a second to get on the defenders weaker side when they are coming across, as said he looked a very exciting prospect.
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3163
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by BamBam Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:18 pm

Tighthead is just such a difficult one to project, Hill in particular was very highly touted but I gather he just hasn't got to the required level so far.

Marcus Street was getting rave reviews in the U20s, and has played a few times off the bench for the Chiefs, but not seen enough to know whether he could be a challenger in the near future

BamBam

Posts : 16936
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:07 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/12/france-will-play-opening-six-nations-game-but-others-to-depend-on-covid

France look pretty unlikely to play beyond Italy I'd say. Hard to say what that means for the comp. You could say without fans the home and away doesnt matter as much but it would skew the tournament even more towards those that would have been playing France away.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by TightHEAD Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 am

Sinckler banned for two weeks for swearing, yet a US President incites a riot in which 5 people die and he gets to remain President for two more weeks. What a Mad word!
TightHEAD
TightHEAD

Posts : 6192
Join date : 2014-09-25
Age : 59
Location : Brexit Island.

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by GeordieFalcon Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:17 pm

hes banned from twitter though TH... Wink

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24334
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:30 pm

Another boost for Scotland.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23969
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by nlpnlp Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:50 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Sinckler banned for two weeks for swearing, yet a US President incites a riot in which 5 people die and he gets to remain President for two more weeks. What a Mad word!

I think Sinckler has been poor since the World Cup final - seldom starting for Bristol and putting in average performances for England. He has lots of talent but seems to have an application issue. Perhaps he believes his own hype too much? Very happy to see Will Stuart start as he has been excellent for the last couple of years. It does look a bit of a step down to Harry Williams and after that??? Not that EJ is likely to pick Williams. EJ likes to pick young players who he can blame for things going wrong and then drop.




nlpnlp

Posts : 412
Join date : 2011-06-14

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by king_carlos Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:01 pm

Sinckler has 10 starts and 5 bench appearances since moving to Bristol. 3 of those 5 bench appearances were after last season restarted with a congested schedule and midweek games so all sides had to rotate a lot. Hardly seldom starting.

His scrummaging has kept improving but he has been less noticeably ball in hand which is common for props as they develop. Marler was once a strong carrier and suspect scrummager.

He's just out of form in my opinion. His form from the Lions tour through the RWC was brilliant. He kicked on a lot during the Lions tour then kept improving for England and Quins. He was a standout throughout the RWC and the injury in the final was a big blow.

Moving to Bristol came at a bad time as he was a player who had to join his new club before the previous season actually ended then had no time to settle as the clubs went pretty quickly from lockdown to playing 2 matches a week. Not an ideal scenario to join a new club.

Having competition from Will Stuart should definitely help his development.

king_carlos

Posts : 8099
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by doctor_grey Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:35 am

I agree, coming to a new team when Sinckler did was going to be a bit difficult. And a little competition never hurt anyone.

doctor_grey

Posts : 9597
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Next steps for england. - Page 3 Empty Re: Next steps for england.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum