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Pro 16 needs to pull the plug on Premier Sports

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Post by bsando Thu 11 Mar 2021, 6:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Pro 16 needs to pull the plug on Premier Sports - Page 2 Error_10

If the Pro 16 wants to compete with the likes of the other top leagues in Europe and further abroad, they need to part ways with Premier Sports. The current Premier Sports contract with the Pro 14 finishes at the end of this season it still remains to be seen if this will be renewed or another broadcaster will takeover the rights.

Many fans have voiced their dislike of the online platform which after several seasons appears to be stable via Sky or Virgin sports packages but less so as an outright online viewing package. Coupled with annoying multiple login requirements to swap from devices and random lost connection error codes before, during and even when trying to watch on demand matches, it would be a real shame to see the new Pro 16 format begin in this manner.

Do you feel the upcoming Pro 16 competition would be a good addition to BT Sports or Sky Sports or even one of the streaming platforms like Amazon Prime?

Would it be better for a return to the domestic networks in a similar format as before?

Could CVC play a part in this decision with their recent investment in the Pro 14 league and 6N?

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:16 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I see Stephan Thomas alluding to the concerns of the viewing figures in Wales on Premiers Sports as well, something I have been saying on here for a long while now, as it cannot be good for the league.

You did say they wouldn’t get 1000 subscribers in Wales, so they’ve probably done better than your expectations. Plus the league is supposed to be dead by now.

You also said that the Welsh Premiership would steal a march on the Pro 14. I’m not convinced by that either.

I do not know if this appropriate behaviour for a moderator, as it is obviously meant to antagonise. But never the less I will answer.


Please either complain about my post or use the below feature. All I have done, is highlight your previous predictions, which are relevant to the quoted text.

https://www.606v2.com/f19-help-and-alert-a-moderator

And I have answered. OK

So lets just leave it there, and debate the topic. OK

Do you want to reply to my answers ?

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Post by Jimmy Moz Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:20 pm

Must admit I do not even know how to get Premier Sports never mind watch any live rugby on it. Hence I have little knowledge of who is up and coming in the Welsh and Irish ranks come Six Nations time.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:21 pm

Jimmy Moz wrote:Must admit I do not even know how to get Premier Sports never mind watch any live rugby on it. Hence I have little knowledge of who is up and coming in the Welsh and Irish ranks come Six Nations time.

See, nobody outside of the actual fans know anything about the league, lack of exposure perhaps ????

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Post by BamBam Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:22 pm

Why the need to play victim? It’s not a witch hunt to be asked to explain your posts.

I’m trying to figure out why you think Sky is bad in Ireland but good in Wales.

My thoughts are EIR is more of a mainstream broadcaster in Ireland than Premier is in Wales, so it somewhat makes sense, but given how strongly a lot of Irish follow English football, it stands to reason that they’ll probably subscribe to Sky in similar numbers that the Welsh and Scottish currently do


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Post by BamBam Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:25 pm

Random Welsh bloke Dai Evans wrote:Well I think Premier Sports is the greatest thing since sliced bread

See, one post is not indicative of a trend

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:27 pm

BamBam wrote:I’m trying to figure out why you think Sky is bad in Ireland but good in Wales.

Why do you think that ? I do not think SKY is a bad thing in Ireland.

BamBam wrote:My thoughts are EIR is more of a mainstream broadcaster in Ireland than Premier is in Wales, so it somewhat makes sense, but given how strongly a lot of Irish follow English football, it stands to reason that they’ll probably subscribe to Sky in similar numbers that the Welsh and Scottish currently do

And I hope you are right. I hope either EIR sports continue to air games, or people do what you have said and buy SKY sports.

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:30 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Do you mean that Sky getting the rights in Ireland would be a negative for the league? If they want them, they’ll have to pay up!

My worry is, that the Irish fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure. If you are right though, and I hope you are, then EIR sports will still have them, but as they are a competitor of SKY will it happen ?


My worry is that Welsh fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:41 pm

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Do you mean that Sky getting the rights in Ireland would be a negative for the league? If they want them, they’ll have to pay up!

My worry is, that the Irish fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure. If you are right though, and I hope you are, then EIR sports will still have them, but as they are a competitor of SKY will it happen ?


My worry is that Welsh fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure.

Quite a few already have it. OK

Also, a lot of people in other countries already have it, thus more exposure, but you know this don't you ?

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 12:52 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Do you mean that Sky getting the rights in Ireland would be a negative for the league? If they want them, they’ll have to pay up!

My worry is, that the Irish fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure. If you are right though, and I hope you are, then EIR sports will still have them, but as they are a competitor of SKY will it happen ?


My worry is that Welsh fans will not pay for Sky Sports, thus it will get less exposure.

Quite a few already have it. OK

Also, a lot of people in other countries already have it, thus more exposure, but you know this don't you ?

I have no idea about TV watching in Ireland, but if Sky is already there then would not quite a few people in Ireland already have it?  I'm just wondering how it's different to Wales?
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Post by Jimmy Moz Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:03 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:Must admit I do not even know how to get Premier Sports never mind watch any live rugby on it. Hence I have little knowledge of who is up and coming in the Welsh and Irish ranks come Six Nations time.

See, nobody outside of the actual fans know anything about the league, lack of exposure perhaps ????
Yes this the issue. I watch a lot of English Premiership games on BT Sport. I would say that not only is the Anglo League far more enjoyable to watch than the Celtic one, it's also far more accessible to watch.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:03 pm

The Oracle wrote:I have no idea about TV watching in Ireland, but if Sky is already there then would not quite a few people in Ireland already have it? I'm just wondering how it's different to Wales?

I haven't said it's different in Wales. Please show me where I have, and I will concede.

What I have said is, Ireland currently have their games on EIR sports, the question I have asked is, how will this deal affect them ?

Now it's been all blown out of proportion by you and BamBam, because you are trying to unveil some other motive I might have, when in truth, I haven't.


Last edited by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Wanted to include a quote)

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I have no idea about TV watching in Ireland, but if Sky is already there then would not quite a few people in Ireland already have it?  I'm just wondering how it's different to Wales?

I haven't said it's different in Wales. Please show me where I have, and I will concede.

What I have said is, Ireland currently have their games on EIR sports, the question I have asked is, how will this deal affect them ?

Now it's been all blown out of proportion by you and BamBam, because you are trying to unveil some other motive I might have, when in truth, I haven't.


You’re reading too much into, LD. As usual!

You said you were worried about exposure in Ireland if it is on Sky but weren’t worried about exposure in Wales. I wondered why as Sky exists in both countries so there would be people in both counties who already have it = exposure in both countries. That is all.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:27 pm

The Oracle wrote:You said you were worried about exposure in Ireland if it is on Sky but weren’t worried about exposure in Wales. I wondered why as Sky exists in both countries so there would be people in both counties who already have it = exposure in both countries. That is all.

Because I worry the Irish fans will not pay for SKY if they do not have it already. But as BamBam says, they probably already have it, so no worries.

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:34 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:You said you were worried about exposure in Ireland if it is on Sky but weren’t worried about exposure in Wales. I wondered why as Sky exists in both countries so there would be people in both counties who already have it = exposure in both countries. That is all.

Because I worry the Irish fans will not pay for SKY if they do not have it already. But as BamBam says, they probably already have it, so no worries.

Yes. And that is exactly my fear for Wales if people don’t already have it. Compounded by wales being a poorer nation than Ireland with higher rates of deprivation, unemployment (I think) and lower standard of living, wages, etc. So even more unaffordable for those without it. Which is why I commented that the £10 for premier sports could/might increase exposure as it is more achievable for those who haven’t got any subscription currently compared to Sky Sports.

Anyway, just repeating myself now!
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:40 pm

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:You said you were worried about exposure in Ireland if it is on Sky but weren’t worried about exposure in Wales. I wondered why as Sky exists in both countries so there would be people in both counties who already have it = exposure in both countries. That is all.

Because I worry the Irish fans will not pay for SKY if they do not have it already. But as BamBam says, they probably already have it, so no worries.

Yes. And that is exactly my fear for Wales if people don’t already have it. Compounded by wales being a poorer nation than Ireland with higher rates of deprivation, unemployment (I think) and lower standard of living, wages, etc. So even more unaffordable for those without it. Which is why I commented that the £10 for premier sports could/might increase exposure as it is more achievable for those who haven’t got any subscription currently compared to Sky Sports.

Anyway, just repeating myself now!

I would wager more people in Wales will have SKY sports than people who have/had Premier sports. Imagine how many Cardiff and Swansea football fans have it, imagine how many Glamorgan cricket supporters have it, Liverpool FC and Manchester UTD FC are heavily supported in Wales, imagine how many of those fans have it. All those fans will now have access to the Pro14/16.

All of the fears you have just brought up, I brought them up when it was announced that the Pro14 was going to Premier Sports, I was hounded out of town on here for brining it up. Now you are saying the same thing.

The truth is, and I think you know this, there is a lot of people in Wales who are subscribed to Sky Sports for the football, and Cricket also F1, also, with these people being Welsh, you would wager that they will watch the regions if they already have access to the channels, but would not pay extra for it on Premier Sports.

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:51 pm

The difference is north of £30 is a big decision for most.
Sky Sports will get very few extra viewers just to watch Rugby.

£10 on the hand is a sum many would pay to watch a sport if they are interested in it.
The issue you are describing is the comparative lack of interest in Regional rugby in Wales.
Moving the Pro14 to Sky wont solve that

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:You said you were worried about exposure in Ireland if it is on Sky but weren’t worried about exposure in Wales. I wondered why as Sky exists in both countries so there would be people in both counties who already have it = exposure in both countries. That is all.

Because I worry the Irish fans will not pay for SKY if they do not have it already. But as BamBam says, they probably already have it, so no worries.

Yes. And that is exactly my fear for Wales if people don’t already have it. Compounded by wales being a poorer nation than Ireland with higher rates of deprivation, unemployment (I think) and lower standard of living, wages, etc. So even more unaffordable for those without it. Which is why I commented that the £10 for premier sports could/might increase exposure as it is more achievable for those who haven’t got any subscription currently compared to Sky Sports.

Anyway, just repeating myself now!

I would wager more people in Wales will have SKY sports than people who have/had Premier sports. Imagine how many Cardiff and Swansea football fans have it, imagine how many Glamorgan cricket supporters have it, Liverpool FC and Manchester UTD FC are heavily supported in Wales, imagine how many of those fans have it. All those fans will now have access to the Pro14/16.

All of the fears you have just brought up, I brought them up when it was announced that the Pro14 was going to Premier Sports, I was hounded out of town on here for brining it up. Now you are saying the same thing.

The truth is, and I think you know this, there is a lot of people in Wales who are subscribed to Sky Sports for the football, and Cricket also F1, also, with these people being Welsh, you would wager that they will watch the regions if they already have access to the channels, but would not pay extra for it on Premier Sports.

No. Big difference is I am all for rugby going behind a paywall. I'm not worried about 'exposure' as I do not think it's a factor. I also do not think 'the league is dying in Wales' due to it going to Premier Sports. I don't think the knock on effect of this lack of exposure is real either. I'm involved in mini rugby and if anything the past couple of years grassroots rugby in my area has INCREASED in popularity! Why, when rugby has left free-to-air TV in Wales? My only point was that if you are worried about exposure why are you not worried about something that costs 4x as much!!! But you've answered that now......

I disagree with your point about Sky Sports subscribers to a certain extent. I suppose some might. When I look at it the other way round it doesn't work, so why for rugby? e.g. if I had Sky Sports for rugby I wouldn't watch the football. I have Amazon Prime and there were football games on there recently but I did not watch one. Why, if I already had the subscription? I think it is a stretch to say that lots more people would watch it if already subscribed. Some but maybe not enough to make a difference.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 2:23 pm

It's interesting reading on twitter how many people are really happy with this potential decision.

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 15 Mar 2021, 3:06 pm

You are clearly pleased being a Sky subscriber but I do think you are missing the bigger points
The Oracle and myself are making.

Just because it suits yourself and some others does not it will address the serious issue in Welsh rugby...it wont

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:You said you were worried about exposure in Ireland if it is on Sky but weren’t worried about exposure in Wales. I wondered why as Sky exists in both countries so there would be people in both counties who already have it = exposure in both countries. That is all.

Because I worry the Irish fans will not pay for SKY if they do not have it already. But as BamBam says, they probably already have it, so no worries.

Well we can only make subjective assessment but I know hardly any Ulster fans who have Sky.
Some do because they follow soccer.
The vast majority do not because Sky shows very little Irish, or indeed British rugby.
The people I know pay for Premier Sports because it is only a £10, the vast majority will not be paying the £30+ cost of Sky
As such here at least I believe it will result in a reduction in viewing figures for the Pro14

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 15 Mar 2021, 3:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

The league is not dead, but it is a far cry from what it was in Wales before it went to Premier Sports, even you must acknowledge that ?

I cannot get the viewing figures as Premier Sports were not open with that info, but I would wager that at the time, more people in Wales were watching the Premiership on BBC Wales than people in Wales were watching the Pro14 on Premier Sports. If reports are to be believed, there were about 10,000 subscribers to PS in Wales, I am sure I can remember someone posting the veiwing figures for the Premiership, and it was more than 10,000.  OK

I haven't seen any evidence of it being a far cry from what it was in Wales, so I won't comment on something that may not be the case.

I'm not sure many companies like that release their subscription figures too often, so I don't get why some people question the openness? However, if the Welsh Premiership has stolen a march on the Pro 14, how are the Welsh pro teams going to claw the people they've lost back? Welsh Prem and Pro 16 games will clash at least once a week, I assume (Fridays). It will also clash with the other sports that you highlight people purchasing Sky Sports for already. If the interest isn't currently there, then I don't see it recovering. You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 15 Mar 2021, 3:48 pm

RiscaGame wrote: If the interest isn't currently there, then I don't see it recovering.

There's the rub.
Think if through.

Let take 4 people - they could be Irish, Welsh or Scottish who wish to watch the Pro14.
1 Someone who subscribes to Sky no but not Premier Sports
2 Someone who subscribes to Premier Sports but not Sky
3 Someone who doesn't subscribe to either
4 Someone who subscribes to both

1 - is someone not prepared to spend £10 on the sport so safe to assume they are not that interested.
They may now watch matches as they already have Sky, the majority will not.

2 - is someone who now has to consider whether they wish to spend over 320 more to watch the same thing.
Some will, like me, will pay the extra but my assessment would be that this will be a minority

For 3 and 4 the picture doesn't change other than those in group 4 save £10 a month.

From this I cannot see a significant growth in interest.
The only people who will watch the Pro14 on Sky that didn't on Premier Sport are those who were insufficiently interested to spend £10 a month.
By contrast the far more significant hike in cost for those not subscribed to Sky will, I believe result in fewer people watching the Pro14.
Sure Sky will have more subscribers but that does not mean that will translate into Pro14 viewers.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 15 Mar 2021, 4:32 pm

RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 15 Mar 2021, 4:55 pm

I wouldn't have minded it going to BT, I really rate their rugby coverage. Sky Sports is better though as we also have that already - I guess I'm one of the many and not the few... Premier Sports has been crap.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 15 Mar 2021, 4:55 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 15 Mar 2021, 5:03 pm

I do wonder what the viewing figures were back in the day on Sky Sports, as the ProWhatever moved there for a bit right? About the time the English Prem moved over to BT Sport.

Did they drop off when moving across to Premier sports?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 15 Mar 2021, 5:19 pm

RiscaGame wrote:The Rugby Paper article on it, is on this tweet.

https://twitter.com/jnphillips4/status/1371022293728645121?s=21

Fair play to Steffan Thomas. He’s a very good journalist, in my opinion.
In typical Welsh journalism fashion though he turns a massive positive into a negative by trying to compare the new tv deal with our English and French counterparts. I can see why the Welsh have this constant negative view with the league. The fact, as he puts it we are getting a "significant increase" in the new deal is an incredible feat with everything that's going on.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 15 Mar 2021, 5:28 pm

I’d probably advise you not to follow his tweets then, as he isn’t really a fan of the league Wink

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 15 Mar 2021, 5:29 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I’d probably advise you not to follow his tweets then, as he isn’t really a fan of the league Wink
Lucky I'm not on twitter so Very Happy When he compared the tv deals straight away it really made me chuckle.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 15 Mar 2021, 5:43 pm

tigertattie wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)

Simon Thomas of WOL fame asked what effect the Six Nations had on kids taking up rugby and there doesn’t seem to be too much of a difference (if any). If the young lad is watching football, then he’ll probably stick with football (in my opinion) particularly with the amount of coverage the PL gets. I’m not overly sure if there’ll be that much advertising in comparison to other sports, when they have to advertise football and other major events, as well as their programming probably and then if there is, I don’t think they’ll advertise enough to attract people that aren’t aware of the product. But that’s supposition, which is kind of the point I’m making with regards to all these sweeping statements that get made, concerning the current contract.


Last edited by RiscaGame on Mon 15 Mar 2021, 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by neilthom7 Mon 15 Mar 2021, 6:49 pm

I no longer work for Sky but had a bit of a catch up with a few folks who are still there after reading this today.

At this time they haven't been told to do anything to prepare for Pro 16, this isn't uncommon as the tv deal isn't signed yet but usually they will get notice to prepare some graphics and such if it looks like it is going to happen. That isn't a huge thing it just says that Sky don't have it at a stage yet where they think it is a done deal.

They like me were surprised by this as the reaction to the Pro 12 (i believe as it was back then) internally at Sky was very lukewarm, it didn't do anything for subscriber numbers and advertisers were not fussed on it. Our consensus was the addition of the South African teams may be something they are looking at for ad revenues and as something which may generate more interest amongst rugby fans who have previously been watching Super Rugby on Sky.

The major factor however in giving it up was cost at the time, they simply didn't think it was worth anywhere near what Premier paid plus they saw that (at the time, perhaps somewhat different now) Premier League rights were going up.

One of the guys is mates with someone fairly high up in the department that deals with purchasing sports rights so he is going to subtly try to find out what they know.

On an individual viewer level I should imagine if you have Sky Sports already then this is a good thing but if you don't then it's likely the end of your Pro 16 watching days unless you are quite committed like some will be.

I do have Sky Sports myself and I also have Premier so it would be a net positive for me but if I didn't have Sky Sports theres no way I'd be getting it to watch Pro 16, no matter how bright Ulster's future looks lol

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 6:54 pm

tigertattie wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)

I get that tattie. But it was LD not so long ago who said, and I paraphrase a bit, that with wales being so deprived many fans will not have an extra £10 put into watching rugby, and fewer still will be able to afford sky sports. Therefore exposure will drop and the game will DIE! It was part of the argument against going behind a paywall and losing coverage on BBC2 Wales and S4C. If they’ve got Sky Sports then great, but the argument was that poor Welsh people can’t afford Sky sports!
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 15 Mar 2021, 7:24 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:The Rugby Paper article on it, is on this tweet.

https://twitter.com/jnphillips4/status/1371022293728645121?s=21

Fair play to Steffan Thomas. He’s a very good journalist, in my opinion.
In typical Welsh journalism fashion though he turns a massive positive into a negative by trying to compare the new tv deal with our English and French counterparts. I can see why the Welsh have this constant negative view with the league. The fact, as he puts it we are getting a "significant increase" in the new deal is an incredible feat with everything that's going on.

Not sure about Steff. I swear he used to frequently post on here as a certain someone... so I take it with a pinch of salt despite agreeing with him quite often.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 15 Mar 2021, 7:30 pm

The Oracle wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)

I get that tattie. But it was LD not so long ago who said, and I paraphrase a bit, that with wales being so deprived many fans will not have an extra £10 put into watching rugby, and fewer still will be able to afford sky sports. Therefore exposure will drop and the game will DIE! It was part of the argument against going behind a paywall and losing coverage on BBC2 Wales and S4C.  If they’ve got Sky Sports then great, but the argument was that poor Welsh people can’t afford Sky sports!

Only in Merthyr. Us well-off's in Newport have it all Smile.

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Post by The Oracle Mon 15 Mar 2021, 7:55 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)

I get that tattie. But it was LD not so long ago who said, and I paraphrase a bit, that with wales being so deprived many fans will not have an extra £10 put into watching rugby, and fewer still will be able to afford sky sports. Therefore exposure will drop and the game will DIE! It was part of the argument against going behind a paywall and losing coverage on BBC2 Wales and S4C.  If they’ve got Sky Sports then great, but the argument was that poor Welsh people can’t afford Sky sports!

Only in Merthyr. Us well-off's in Newport have it all Smile.


Of course! king
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 15 Mar 2021, 9:17 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:The Rugby Paper article on it, is on this tweet.

https://twitter.com/jnphillips4/status/1371022293728645121?s=21

Fair play to Steffan Thomas. He’s a very good journalist, in my opinion.
In typical Welsh journalism fashion though he turns a massive positive into a negative by trying to compare the new tv deal with our English and French counterparts. I can see why the Welsh have this constant negative view with the league. The fact, as he puts it we are getting a "significant increase" in the new deal is an incredible feat with everything that's going on.

Not sure about Steff. I swear he used to frequently post on here as a certain someone... so I take it with a pinch of salt despite agreeing with him quite often.
Just needless negativity to positive news. My only concern is if we don't have every game live.

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Post by Brendan Mon 15 Mar 2021, 10:27 pm

If Sky are showing games they are unlikely to show every game. The 3 Big Irish and South Africa teams will be shown often. Can't see how going on Sky will improve coverage of Welsh teams in Wales.

Sky will focus on all the big games specifically Munster and Leinster against the SA teams and a few others. Sky gave Munster and Leinster alot more coverage then most teams in the Euro Cups can't see how that will change.

We'll be back to the league is Irish bias because they show the Irish teams on Sky the most.

No one does promotion like sky though

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Post by tigertattie Mon 15 Mar 2021, 11:31 pm

Surely in this day and age you’ll be able to pick what game to watch? Does the old red button still work?

Also it’s 8 games over the weekend so I’d expect one maybe two games on a Friday night (SA home games kicking off at 6pm here and then a 8pm U.K. based kick off)

Then you get three on a sat and Sunday again making use of the SA time Difference to complete the round? All games kicking off at different times. I doubt people would watch every single game but at least it gives you the option.
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Post by RiscaGame Tue 16 Mar 2021, 5:25 am

This would be my hope. I’d imagine they’d have to, if they’re the sole coverage providers, because Premier (for all their highlighted potential flaws) have shown this as the way to go.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 8:05 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:You said that the league was treading water around the time of the Premier rumours, so why do you expect there to be this boom?

Because it will be on a better TV channel, more mainstream, and advertised better.

I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)

I get that tattie. But it was LD not so long ago who said, and I paraphrase a bit, that with wales being so deprived many fans will not have an extra £10 put into watching rugby, and fewer still will be able to afford sky sports. Therefore exposure will drop and the game will DIE! It was part of the argument against going behind a paywall and losing coverage on BBC2 Wales and S4C.  If they’ve got Sky Sports then great, but the argument was that poor Welsh people can’t afford Sky sports!

Only in Merthyr. Us well-off's in Newport have it all Smile.


Laugh

Cheeky feckers.

Anyway, I love it that people think we are all living like third world villages north of the M4. We are not that poor.

But what really flabergasts me is, there are loads of people on benefits and what ever, yet they all have a new car on their drive, and yes, a satellite dish on the side of their house. I wish I knew how they do it. Laugh

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:12 am

tigertattie wrote:I can see LD's point here.

I think people are looking at this from different angles and this jsut needs to be explained.

Geoff is looking at casual fans and thier interest in watching rugby while LD is looking at someone who is not yet watching rugby and with Sky taking this on you might get more people now watching the Pro 16 BECAUSE they already have Sky.

This is because Sky advertise thier own programms on half the adverts they show. So some wee lad is watching Man U vs Liverpool at 3pm on a Sat afternoon. Then Sky advertise Cardiff vs Leinster on Sky Sports Rugby at 5pm. Rather than turn off the tele at 5pm the young lad may flick over to Sky Sports Rugby and love what he sees and take up rugby? He'd never have seen that advertised for a game on Premier sports as you need to be an exisiting fan and seek out the games.

Of course this all depends on if watching rugbyb on TV fraws people into the game. I'm not sure if it does as I'm pretty sure I started playing the game before I was watching it on TV but thats just my experiance (and that was a long longgggg time ago)


Thanks tigertattie. What you have explained is exactly what I mean. At least somebody can see it my way.

Oracle is upset that it looks as though PS are losing the Pro14/16, and I think he lets his emotions take a bit of a control when he is replying to me, which is fine, as I get that too.

In my opinion, the price aside, as I think what PS sports were charging was a bargain, but the channel in itself was a disaster from the start. Nobody in Wales knew what Premier Sports was, or existed before the deal was struck, nobody knew how to watch it, what it was about..... you get the jist.

I cannot speak for Scotland or Northern Ireland, but I could imagine the same scenarios there as well.

These facts more or less alienated a lot of people from the league in Wales. Now, I know a lot of people here have SKY especially the supporters of Cardiff FC, Swansea FC, Liverpool FC, Man UTD FC ect.... So now, these people who already have SKY, and were perhaps watching the Pro14 on the BBC before hand, can now start watching it again. Its a potential whole new fanbase.

I know people here in Wales, who would prefer to watch the Welsh regions on tele when their football team is not playing, or after they have watched their football team. Most of the people in my club would be like this, they would congregate to watch the football on a Saturday, then in the evening watch whatever Welsh region was on the BBC. The same on a Friday night, when their teams were not on, they would be watching the regions instead, there was always interest as they are Welsh teams. When the league went to PS they just stopped, as our club could not afford both. You could mirror this for a lot of people who would do the same at home.

You see, I am not knocking what PS were doing or trying to do, I just think that Premier Sports is not mainstream enough if we want the Pro14/16 to go from strength to strength, if we want to showcase the league, then we need it to be on a better provider who have access to a bigger audience.

Now I know there will be a select few on here who will try and dissect what I have written here, and call it hyperbole, or ask me to explain myself, as it is the way on here unfortunately. But I am trying to be forthright as I can in what I am saying, I am using my own experiences as a guide to how I see it, and I know others have different views on it, but I would not try and knock them for it either. That is their prerogative.

This is just my point of view, nothing more, nothing less. OK

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:18 am

It seems that a fair few people in Wales do have access to Sky Sports (without knowing the figures) so they can watch the Premier League, that's already been alluded to. If they don't, they can usually to their local and watch it. Depending on the pub, there'll be extra screens or rooms for different matches or sports. So the league going back to Sky Sports might improve viewing figures. I've watched a lot of BT and Premier Sports this year, it's amazing how decent coverage and a bit of stadium lighting makes the match look better.

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Post by RiscaGame Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:

Now I know there will be a select few on here who will try and dissect what I have written here, and call it hyperbole, or ask me to explain myself, as it is the way on here unfortunately. But I am trying to be forthright as I can in what I am saying, I am using my own experiences as a guide to how I see it, and I know others have different views on it, but I would not try and knock them for it either. That is their prerogative.

This is just my point of view, nothing more, nothing less. OK

If you offered an opinion, then nobody can criticise you or ask you to elaborate as such. They may be interested in finding out more about your opinion, but that's maybe because it could add to discussions. You can't expect people not to react to statements similar to "the league is dying in Wales due to Premier" or "Premier has been a disaster" though.

There's a difference between stating opinions and presenting opinions as fact. For example, I fully agree that people did watch Welsh rugby in your club. In Risca, I would have to work pretty hard to get a Welsh game on, as people preferred to watch Premiership Rugby. So you saying that your club does what it does shouldn't cause upset, it's when you appear to over exaggerate things or seemingly present your experiences as a broader example than what it is.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:40 am

RiscaGame wrote:If you offered an opinion, then nobody can criticise you or ask you to elaborate as such. They may be interested in finding out more about your opinion, but that's maybe cause it could add to discussions. You can't expect people not to react to statements similar to "the league is dying in Wales due to Premier" or "Premier has been a disaster" though.

There's a difference between stating opinions and presenting opinions as fact. For example, I fully agree that people did watch Welsh rugby in your club. In Risca, I would have to work pretty hard to get a Welsh game on, as people preferred to watch Premiership Rugby. So you saying that your club does what it does shouldn't cause upset, it's when you appear to over exaggerate things or seemingly present your experiences as a broader example than what it is.

And then this. Rolling Eyes

In my opinion, putting the Pro14 on PS was a disaster and did more damage to the popularity of the league than it did good.

You cannot deny, the league is dying here at the moment, because not as many people are watching it.

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Post by RiscaGame Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:55 am

I think there are other factors to the popularity of the league in Wales, not just limited to the TV contract.

Your only issue with it going on Premier, seems to be not potentially attracting casual supporters. The teams themselves seem to be doing okay, with Ospreys managing to attract new backers (as one example) and Scarlets seemingly able to attract more sponsorship. Even Dragons seem to be doing pretty well commercially.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:58 am

RiscaGame wrote:I think there are other factors to the popularity of the league in Wales, not just limited to the TV contract.

Your only issue with it going on Premier, seems to be not potentially attracting casual supporters. The teams themselves seem to be doing okay, with Ospreys managing to attract new backers (as one example) and Scarlets seemingly able to attract more sponsorship. Even Dragons seem to be doing pretty well commercially.

The regions are not the issue.

It's the league, thats the problem, if we want it to thrive, and potentially match other leagues, then we need the biggest fanbase we can get our hands on. PS will not help us achieve that, as not enough people are subscribing to it.

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Post by Oakdene Tue 16 Mar 2021, 10:15 am

mikey_dragon wrote:It seems that a fair few people in Wales do have access to Sky Sports (without knowing the figures) so they can watch the Premier League, that's already been alluded to. If they don't, they can usually to their local and watch it. Depending on the pub, there'll be extra screens or rooms for different matches or sports. So the league going back to Sky Sports might improve viewing figures. I've watched a lot of BT and Premier Sports this year, it's amazing how decent coverage and a bit of stadium lighting makes the match look better.

I think the problem is that it's not like 15 years ago when you paid £xx a month for all of Sky Sports Packages. I have the Sky Sports Premier League channel for my boy, I pay something like £12 a month for it but that doesn't give me access to any other Sky Sports channels, aside from the free one & Sky Sports News.

Do Sky still have the rights to the Super Rugby competition, or whatever it's called these days? If so they may be able to justify having a Sky Sport Rugby channel for say £15 a month & if 2 matches in a competition kick off at the same time, they would have to put one on the red button or on their free one, which is channel 416 from memory.


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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 16 Mar 2021, 10:37 am

Sky don't have Super Rugby any more, they did last season. I imagine their channels would get more interest if they bought back the right to show it. It would be ideal to get most if not all of the Rugby in one place.

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Post by Oakdene Tue 16 Mar 2021, 10:40 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Sky don't have Super Rugby any more, they did last season. I imagine their channels would get more interest if they bought back the right to show it. It would be ideal to get most if not all of the Rugby in one place.

I think, therefore, they will struggle to have a dedicated sports channel for rugby so it will likely be moved around channels in that case. They flip between dedicated channels as per the season really as they will have Golf, Cricket & Darts throughout the year.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 11:49 am

Also, SKY will have the Lions series when/if that goes ahead.

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Post by Oakdene Tue 16 Mar 2021, 11:56 am

LordDowlais wrote:Also, SKY will have the Lions series when/if that goes ahead.

They will though from the provisional schedule I have seen (if it goes ahead in the UK) it will be done by the 1st week in August so no real over lap with the Pro 16.

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