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France V Wales SAT 20 MAR 2021 discussion thread

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 2:17 pm

SAT 20 MAR 2021GUINNESS SIX NATIONS
France v Wales 20:00 kick off
Venue: Stade de France

Well no one else is doing one, so I thought I would put it on here.

Will Wales get the Grand Slam ? Are France too good ? Will Wales win the title ?

Wales obviously need to win the game for a grand slam, but a draw or two losing bonus points would see us win the title, if France win with a bonus point and deny us anything, then they would need to take all points on offer against Scotland for the title. If Wales deny France a bonus point, but they win, then then get 5points from the Scotland game, then it will come down to points difference.

Wow that makes my head hurt. In my opinion, Wales need to just try and beat France, to avoid any permutations. It's going to be a nail biter that's for sure so lets fasten ourselves in and hope for the best. What do you all reckon ?

Come on Wales Wales


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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 4:20 pm

According to reports Tomos Williams could be in contention for this game. Wales have no injury worries ahead of this game.

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Post by RiscaGame Tue 16 Mar 2021, 5:09 pm

Thanks for this.

That’s great. I would probably bring him on to the bench, but that’s a little harsh on Lloyd Williams.

Can’t really remember anybody else that may have been struggling, but glad they’ve all had the opportunity for selection. Hopefully there has been a great buzz in training.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Mar 2021, 8:10 am

RiscaGame wrote:Thanks for this.

That’s great. I would probably bring him on to the bench, but that’s a little harsh on Lloyd Williams.

Can’t really remember anybody else that may have been struggling, but glad they’ve all had the opportunity for selection. Hopefully there has been a great buzz in training.

Yeah, I would love to see how he does against Dupont. Both live wires, but Dupont has obvious talent. Worth the ticket alone that match up.

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Post by chris_501 Wed 17 Mar 2021, 8:16 am

The only weakness I’ve seen from Dupont is his box kicking from deep in his half. On Saturday, rather than kick, the tactic appeared to be the passs back to Jalibert to kick. This loses France 10-15 yards of territory. When DuPont did kick, it was more into the middle of the pitch than close to the touch line. If we can squeeze them up the pitch enough, we could have some attacking ball for our back 3 to run at them with.

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Post by The Oracle Wed 17 Mar 2021, 8:17 am

I was reading an article yesterday with Jonathan Humphreys where he talks about this week and this situation being new for the coaching team as they've never been in a Grand Slam/Championship winning position or match at this level before, but saying that there were loads in camp who have. For AWJ this is something like his 5th time and he, along with some other old heads such as JD2 I expect, were really standing up in training and in meetings and saying what needs to be done. France are clearly favourites but that experience of being here in these situations and coming out winners must count for something. I think at the very least that is one thing we've got over the French, but the odds are probably pretty highly stacked against us in all other facets. Should be a good game!
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Mar 2021, 8:59 am

France are favourites for the next world cup in my eyes. They are all big, fast and talented, and Shaun Edwards seems to have frightened the life out of them and has made them a lot more disciplined, which was an achilles heel for them over the past few years.

But, in saying that, I have seen enough of both Wales and France over this 6N, and I do believe that France can be got at, and Wales do have the tools to get at them.

What will be massive for France is the fact that there will be no crowd, and I know how that may sound stupid, but we all know how the home French fans behave when their team is not on top, they get really frustrated and start getting on the players backs, so that pressure will not be on the French team on Saturday night.

Should be a good game.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 17 Mar 2021, 9:09 am

Why do I get the feeling it's going to be JD2 to start at 12? He doesn't look sharp enough for France. We made a few errors against Italy but that turned out to be a training session, so hopefully Wales do better in Paris.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Mar 2021, 9:14 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Why do I get the feeling it's going to be JD2 to start at 12? He doesn't look sharp enough for France. We made a few errors against Italy but that turned out to be a training session, so hopefully Wales do better in Paris.

I wish he would start Halaholo, but you just know he will not.

Hopefully JD2 has a stormer, we know he is more than capable.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 17 Mar 2021, 9:18 am

It’ll be Davies, because I think Pivac will want to counter Fickou and Vakatawa (assuming they stick with the same pair). I don’t agree with Davies starting, but I wouldn’t question his leadership role within the squad.

I can see why Pivac might prefer Halaholo as an impact player, for when games may open up (especially with France’s perceived fitness issues late on in tests), but I wouldn’t be starting Davies still. I think the injuries have taken too much of a toll on his legs.

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Post by tigertattie Wed 17 Mar 2021, 9:30 am

I dont think Wales will win to get the Slam but I think they'll win the title

I can see france winning but not getting the BP, wales could get a BP meaning they could win before France kick a ball against Scotland
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Post by Oakdene Wed 17 Mar 2021, 10:47 am

I was thinking about Davies the other day. When he has played 13 for either the Scarlets or Wales he has had a no frills team mate at 12, be it Scott Williams or Hadleigh Parkes. They were both good players but would never be the stars of the show if you know what I mean, both solid in defence & attack without turning up trees. Now North is 13, it's Davies's turn to be the solid if unspectacular partner at 12, he is dependable at 12 which creates the chance for North to make the breaks etc at 13.

I haven't seen enough of Halaholo defensively to start at 12. The only change for me is Beard for Hill & that's only to counter Ollivon in the lineout.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Mar 2021, 10:51 am

Oakdene wrote:I haven't seen enough of Halaholo defensively to start at 12. The only change for me is Beard for Hill & that's only to counter Ollivon in the lineout.

This I think is the only cert we can predict. It's a bit hard on Hill though, as for me, he has shaded Wyn Jones as the stand out Welsh forward this 6N.

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Post by Oakdene Wed 17 Mar 2021, 10:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Oakdene wrote:I haven't seen enough of Halaholo defensively to start at 12. The only change for me is Beard for Hill & that's only to counter Ollivon in the lineout.

This I think is the only cert we can predict. It's a bit hard on Hill though, as for me, he has shaded Wyn Jones as the stand out Welsh forward this 6N.

Ah see I think Wyn Jones has been the standout prop of the whole tournament & is the best Welsh forward with Hill close behind.

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Post by chris_501 Wed 17 Mar 2021, 11:22 am

I would add in Owens, Beard and our back row too. That’s why I think we have a good chance on Saturday, no weakness in our starting pack.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 17 Mar 2021, 11:29 am

Welshman on the whistle for the big game.

I think the lineout and second row is where Wales need to target. It's the weakness in the French pack and where they are most culpable for giving away penalties. Their second rows are big and powerful but the top two inches are often missing from their play.

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Post by Heaf Wed 17 Mar 2021, 1:35 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Welshman on the whistle for the big game.

I think the lineout and second row is where Wales need to target. It's the weakness in the French pack and where they are most culpable for giving away penalties. Their second rows are big and powerful but the top two inches are often missing from their play.

Why do they do that and court controversy - surely there must be another ref available that wasn't born or lives in either Wales or France? I know this isn't the first time this scenario has occurred but I wonder why they do it when it would be easy to avoid.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 17 Mar 2021, 2:03 pm

Who is it?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 17 Mar 2021, 2:14 pm

Brace.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 17 Mar 2021, 2:15 pm

If there is one thing Wales need to learn from Brace, he was pretty hot in pinging us for not rolling away, in the Wales v Scotland Six Nations game last year.

I am not a fan of his.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 17 Mar 2021, 2:46 pm

Hopefully he will let the game flow.
It should as Wales have had no cards at all & France have the least pens per game, a commendable 8.7.
I think England kept Dupont relatively quiet through pressure, after the try!

Teddy Thomas is the big danger for me.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Mar 2021, 2:51 pm

He is not Welsh, he is Irish.

He was however born in Cardiff.

He is a God awful ref, who particularly when reffing in the Pro14, almost tries to prove his non Welshness by being overly pedantic towards the Welsh indiscretions, whilst being a little less pedantic with the opposition.

This news has not filled me with much hope at all for Saturday, none at all.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 17 Mar 2021, 2:59 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Who is it?

Luke pearce is ref I believe

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 17 Mar 2021, 3:13 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Who is it?

Luke pearce is ref I believe

Yeah, it does seem like he was due to.

I wonder if it has changed then?

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Mar 2021, 3:15 pm

Ah thank feck for that. My heart sank when No 7 & 1/2 said it was Brace. furious

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 17 Mar 2021, 3:23 pm

Just read a telegraph article sayin it was?

6 nations website had this: With South African officials Jaco Peyper and Marius van der Westhuizen unable to take their place in the team of four for England v France on 13 March and Scotland v Italy on 20 March, a reshuffle has been made.

Barnes has been handed the keys to Italy v Wales in Round 4, and that will complete a busy Championship for the Englishman, who took charge of Wales v Ireland in Round 1 and will also be in Paris for France v Scotland in Round 3.

Also in Round 4, Ireland’s Andrew Brace has been assigned to Twickenham for England v France, while Joy Neville, who made history by becoming the first female TMO in the Guinness Six Nations when England played Scotland in Round 1, will be back at Twickenham as TMO again.

Meanwhile, Pascal Gauzere will replace Peyper for the Round 5 clash between Scotland and Italy at BT Murrayfield.

Gauzere is also due to take charge of Wales v England in Round 3.

and the orginal lineup was this, so I've read that article wrong or they've written wrong or its changed again!
ROUND 5

Scotland v Italy (BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh; Saturday 20 March 2021 – 2.15pm)

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)

Assistant Referee 1: Karl Dickson (England)

Assistant Referee 2: Craig Evans (Wales)

TMO: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)

Ireland v England (Aviva Stadium, Dublin; Saturday 20 March 2021 – 4.45pm)

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)

Assistant Referee 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)

Assistant Referee 2: Alex Ruiz (France)

TMO: Romain Poite (France)

France v Wales (Stade de France, Paris; Saturday 20 March 2021 – 8pm)

Referee: Luke Pearce (England)

Assistant Referee 1: Matthew Carley (England)

Assistant Referee 2: Christophe Ridley (England)

TMO: Wayne Barnes (England)

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 17 Mar 2021, 3:51 pm

Pearce is a good ref, the French will be crying about it though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 17 Mar 2021, 4:00 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Pearce is a good ref, the French will be crying about it though.

He's had his ups and downs. Started the season really well but copped some flack for how he handled the LI Vs Wuss game last weekend. Very promising youngish ref, having Barnes in as TMO is a good call as he is probably his mentor and to develop Pearce needs to ref big games.

If the shoe was on the other foot and he was a French born ref raised in England and who played for a local French exiles team as a teenager you'd be annoyed.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:02 am

Is there a mistake in the lineup, or has Nicky Smith just come out of nowhere?

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:07 am

Wales: Liam Williams; Louis Rees-Zammit, George North, Jonathan Davies, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis, Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Josh Navidi, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Nicky Smith, Leon Brown, Cory Hill, James Botham, Tomos Williams, Callum Sheedy, Willis Halaholo.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:14 am

No real surprises, with what he has gone for.

It'll be interesting to see what's said in the Press later about Nicky Smith.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:26 am

Yep, we all thought Adam Beard would be starting, I do feel sorry for Hill though, he has been exceptional.

I hope Tomos Williams gets some game time.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:44 am

Good to see Tomos Williams back on the bench.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:47 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Pearce is a good ref, the French will be crying about it though.

He's had his ups and downs. Started the season really well but copped some flack for how he handled the LI Vs Wuss game last weekend. Very promising youngish ref, having Barnes in as TMO is a good call as he is probably his mentor and to develop Pearce needs to ref big games.

If the shoe was on the other foot and he was a French born ref raised in England and who played for a local French exiles team as a teenager you'd be annoyed.

As far as I know he spent the majority of his childhood in Devon so I don't think there will be any issue.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 18 Mar 2021, 11:48 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Good to see Tomos Williams back on the bench.

I cannot wait to see how he does against Dupont. Two players in very much the same mould in my opinion.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 18 Mar 2021, 12:52 pm

Very happy with the bench overall, I have to say. I did think Pivac would highlight Smith's scrummaging to justify his selection, so not really sure why he hasn't featured yet in that case. I don't think any prop has struggled in the scrum yet, so there's no real reason for Rhodri Jones (who has primarily been the back up loosehead) to miss out imo.

There's a lot of impact to come on though, especially if we have to chase a game or if the game breaks up.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 18 Mar 2021, 1:06 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Very happy with the bench overall, I have to say. I did think Pivac would highlight Smith's scrummaging to justify his selection, so not really sure why he hasn't featured yet in that case. I don't think any prop has struggled in the scrum yet, so there's no real reason for Rhodri Jones (who has primarily been the back up loosehead) to miss out imo.

There's a lot of impact to come on though, especially if we have to chase a game or if the game breaks up.

Jones is injured & back with the Ospreys by all accounts.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 18 Mar 2021, 1:08 pm

Fair enough, thanks. Didn't see anything about that. Possibly could/should've given Smith minutes v Italy instead of Carre then.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 18 Mar 2021, 1:12 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Fair enough, thanks. Didn't see anything about that. Possibly could/should've given Smith minutes v Italy instead of Carre then.

Maybe he wanted to have a look at Carre as he has been patchy at best. That said age is still very much on his side & I think Smith will offer a good jackal option when he comes on.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 18 Mar 2021, 2:37 pm

BBC wrote:France: Brice Dulin; Teddy Thomas, Virimi Vakatawa, Gael Fickou, Damian Penaud; Matthieu Jalibert, Antoine Dupont; Cyril Baille, Julien Marchand, Mohamed Haouas, Romain Taofifenua, Paul Willemse, Dylan Cretin, Charles Ollivon (capt), Gregory Alldritt.
Replacements: Camille Chat, Jean-Baptiste Gros, Uini Antonio, Swan Rebbadj, Anthony Jelonch, Baptiste Serin, Romain Ntamack, Arthur Vincent.

Serin, Ntamack and Vincent are outrageous backs to have sat on the bench!

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:17 pm

Question to every one.

If Wales win against France they wi the Grand Slam. pk understand that.


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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:20 pm

Question to every one.

If Wales win against France they win the Grand Slam. ok understand that.

But if Wales loose to France do they (Wales) still win the 6nations?

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Post by king_carlos Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:39 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Question to every one.

If Wales win against France they win the Grand Slam. ok understand that.

But if Wales loose to France do they (Wales) still win the 6nations?

EDIT: Ignore all this guff for your own sanity.


Last edited by king_carlos on Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:18 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:43 pm

Thanks for that King carlos.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:49 pm

I really don't know if that's just a piss take from the lazy question.

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Post by Heaf Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:58 pm

Bit of a typo there kc? "If France win then beat Scotland they win the slam."

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Post by king_carlos Thu 18 Mar 2021, 6:59 pm

Heaf wrote:Bit of a typo there kc? "If France win then beat Scotland they win the slam."
Nope?

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Post by The Oracle Thu 18 Mar 2021, 7:05 pm

Yes a typo I think! How can France win the slam when they lost to England? And because they lost to England it’s really open as they can’t get a slam 3 point bonus. So they could beat both Wales and Scotland with bonus point 5 point wins but if wales get a LBP we could still win it on points difference?
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Post by king_carlos Thu 18 Mar 2021, 7:08 pm

Jesus yep a typo. My bad, completely zoned out after a stressful day with work stuff. In my head France have been playing too well to have lost. Thanks for correcting me Heaf and Oracle!

So LBPs and TBPs do come into it then. France can get a maximum of 10 points from two games which would put them on 20 points. Wales are on 19 so even if they lost to France a LBP and TBP would guarantee the title. Lots of other permutations there though.

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Post by Heaf Thu 18 Mar 2021, 8:36 pm

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