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France V Wales SAT 20 MAR 2021 discussion thread

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 16 Mar 2021, 2:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

SAT 20 MAR 2021GUINNESS SIX NATIONS
France v Wales 20:00 kick off
Venue: Stade de France

Well no one else is doing one, so I thought I would put it on here.

Will Wales get the Grand Slam ? Are France too good ? Will Wales win the title ?

Wales obviously need to win the game for a grand slam, but a draw or two losing bonus points would see us win the title, if France win with a bonus point and deny us anything, then they would need to take all points on offer against Scotland for the title. If Wales deny France a bonus point, but they win, then then get 5points from the Scotland game, then it will come down to points difference.

Wow that makes my head hurt. In my opinion, Wales need to just try and beat France, to avoid any permutations. It's going to be a nail biter that's for sure so lets fasten ourselves in and hope for the best. What do you all reckon ?

Come on Wales Wales


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Post by LordDowlais Fri 19 Mar 2021, 7:57 am

Boys I'm sure I put the permutations in the original post and topic.

Anyway:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56292157

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 19 Mar 2021, 8:37 am

Oh well, here's the team talk for Saturday:-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/03/18/every-grand-slam-ranked-triumph-special/

So, if we win, this team is the worst to win a slam in 30 years. Laugh

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 8:44 am

Where would you rank it LD?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 19 Mar 2021, 8:45 am

Oakdene wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Pearce is a good ref, the French will be crying about it though.

He's had his ups and downs. Started the season really well but copped some flack for how he handled the LI Vs Wuss game last weekend. Very promising youngish ref, having Barnes in as TMO is a good call as he is probably his mentor and to develop Pearce needs to ref big games.

If the shoe was on the other foot and he was a French born ref raised in England and who played for a local French exiles team as a teenager you'd be annoyed.

As far as I know he spent the majority of his childhood in Devon so I don't think there will be any issue.

Yes it was mainly tongue in cheek but it's an odd selection in terms of ref. I suspect if you have him the choice of Devon or Wales he'd pick Devon but I suspect at home his parents and family will be supporting Wales this weekend. He's a good ref and a professional so you have to put those things from your mind but it's odd that the organisers would put the pressure on him in the first place. 

It may or may not go in Wales favour as either he has a soft spot for Wales and it comes through or it goes the other way and he's so conscious of not showing a soft spot for Wales that he is actually stricter with them.

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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 8:58 am

LordDowlais wrote:Oh well, here's the team talk for Saturday:-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/03/18/every-grand-slam-ranked-triumph-special/

So, if we win, this team is the worst to win a slam in 30 years. Laugh

Think my favourite comment was one that we won which referred to Wales only winning because they were fitter & defended better than the other sides! Doh

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:00 am

You just knew England would be ranked No.1 Rolling Eyes. Time to cancel my subscription I think, their sports pages are naf.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:02 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Where would you rank it LD?

Behind 2005 as that one was out of the blue, but ahead of all the others, because again, nobody was expecting us to beat anyone bar Italy.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:04 am

mikey_dragon wrote:You just knew England would be ranked No.1 Rolling Eyes. Time to cancel my subscription I think, their sports pages are naf.

As an aside, if yu're after some decent articles you should give The XV Rugby a try. Special offer of a subscription for a tenner at the moment. Joined it last week and its really good.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:04 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Where would you rank it LD?

Behind 2005 as that one was out of the blue, but ahead of all the others, because again, nobody was expecting us to beat anyone bar Italy.

Certainly if you're judging it by surprise factor its well up there.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:11 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Where would you rank it LD?

Behind 2005 as that one was out of the blue, but ahead of all the others, because again, nobody was expecting us to beat anyone bar Italy.

Certainly if you're judging it by surprise factor its well up there.

The Grandslam in 2005 Wales played some sublime rugby, but this year, Wales could win the GS and break the record for amount of tries scored in a 6N as well couldn't they ?

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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:14 am

A Slam is a Slam, you don't win 5 games on the spin by pure luck. We have been organised, disciplined & played some good rugby at times. Our defence has held up & we look a well drilled side. We can't help the fact that POM (who has said he was in the wrong) & Ferguson had brain farts. Yes we all know what happened against England but they got back to level terms & at the end of the day from there they lost the match through stopping playing & indiscipline.

We resisted to make wholesale changes against Italy, which has been our undoing in the past & we rightly romped home against them.

Win, lose or draw tomorrow I count this 6 nations as a success & look forward to the next challenges the coaching & playing team encounter.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:15 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:You just knew England would be ranked No.1 Rolling Eyes. Time to cancel my subscription I think, their sports pages are naf.

As an aside, if yu're after some decent articles you should give The XV Rugby a try. Special offer of a subscription for a tenner at the moment. Joined it last week and its really good.

I actually subscribed to the Telegraph to read their articles on property investing and only seen a few rugby articles by chance, but I'll be sure to check out The XV Rugby. I think The Rugby Paper might be decent but haven't subscribed.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:18 am

On occasion there has been some good rugby played by Wales, I think we've got better as the tournament has gone on. That said I wouldn't extend Pivac's contract as I don't think he's done enough even if we do beat France.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:19 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Where would you rank it LD?

Behind 2005 as that one was out of the blue, but ahead of all the others, because again, nobody was expecting us to beat anyone bar Italy.

Certainly if you're judging it by surprise factor its well up there.

The Grandslam in 2005 Wales played some sublime rugby, but this year, Wales could win the GS and break the record for amount of tries scored in a 6N as well couldn't they ?

Not sure, I'd have to read up.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:19 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Where would you rank it LD?

Behind 2005 as that one was out of the blue, but ahead of all the others, because again, nobody was expecting us to beat anyone bar Italy.

Certainly if you're judging it by surprise factor its well up there.

The Grandslam in 2005 Wales played some sublime rugby, but this year, Wales could win the GS and break the record for amount of tries scored in a 6N as well couldn't they ?

Wales' own record, not The Record (still held by England from either 02 or 03).

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:42 am

You have 17 so far and the record is 29. So not sure you're going to do it.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:43 am

Nothing will ever top 2005 for me, as it was the first one I had ever experienced. 2008 was good after the 2007 RWC debacle and I actually got to see a game in that tournament (Scotland 2nd). 2012, I was at the GS game v France, so that meant a lot (I won tickets off David Buttress, so always knew I liked the guy). 2019 was okay, but not overly memorable for me.

As it stands, I think I would go 2005, 2012, 2008, 2019. If we did win tomorrow, it would probably go third for me. If we don't, then as Oakdene says I still count the tournament as a success for us, given expectations pre tournament (especially my own Wink)

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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:44 am

mikey_dragon wrote:On occasion there has been some good rugby played by Wales, I think we've got better as the tournament has gone on. That said I wouldn't extend Pivac's contract as I don't think he's done enough even if we do beat France.

He'll get the extension, he has done what he has set out to do. The Autumn was a write off as soon as World Rugby announced the early seedings for the RWC so Pivac chose to experiment & try to start building depth which he has done. He said he had different priorities for that & the 6N. Most supporters feared the worst following the Autumn, but the coaching staff & the players trusted the process & worked hard & we are now seeing the results. We are far from the finished product but there are good signs. We're getting the ball wider & faster than previous whilst still being strong in defence & disciplined.


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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:46 am

Talking of records, Italy are set to beat their own record from 2017 for the worst points difference (-151). They are currently on -142.

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Post by The Oracle Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:12 am

RiscaGame wrote:Nothing will ever top 2005 for me, as it was the first one I had ever experienced. 2008 was good after the 2007 RWC debacle and I actually got to see a game in that tournament (Scotland 2nd). 2012, I was at the GS game v France, so that meant a lot (I won tickets off David Buttress, so always knew I liked the guy). 2019 was okay, but not overly memorable for me.

As it stands, I think I would go 2005, 2012, 2008, 2019. If we did win tomorrow, it would probably go third for me. If we don't, then as Oakdene says I still count the tournament as a success for us, given expectations pre tournament (especially my own Wink)

2005 for me too. What a day! It was boiling hot too. Went to Cardiff to the pubs for the atmosphere. Still can't believe how many people were out. There were people up trees, outside City Hall was just a sea of people, the pubs were rammed. Just one of those awesome days that I can't put into words.
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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:16 am

The Oracle wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Nothing will ever top 2005 for me, as it was the first one I had ever experienced. 2008 was good after the 2007 RWC debacle and I actually got to see a game in that tournament (Scotland 2nd). 2012, I was at the GS game v France, so that meant a lot (I won tickets off David Buttress, so always knew I liked the guy). 2019 was okay, but not overly memorable for me.

As it stands, I think I would go 2005, 2012, 2008, 2019. If we did win tomorrow, it would probably go third for me. If we don't, then as Oakdene says I still count the tournament as a success for us, given expectations pre tournament (especially my own Wink)

2005 for me too.  What a day!  It was boiling hot too.  Went to Cardiff to the pubs for the atmosphere.  Still can't believe how many people were out.  There were people up trees, outside City Hall was just a sea of people, the pubs were rammed.  Just one of those awesome days that I can't put into words.  

Current situation certainly puts that into perspective!

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:39 am

Oakdene wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:On occasion there has been some good rugby played by Wales, I think we've got better as the tournament has gone on. That said I wouldn't extend Pivac's contract as I don't think he's done enough even if we do beat France.

He'll get the extension, he has done what he has set out to do. The Autumn was a write off as soon as World Rugby announced the early seedings for the RWC so Pivac chose to experiment & try to start building depth which he has done. He said he had different priorities for that & the 6N. Most supporters feared the worst following the Autumn, but the coaching staff & the players trusted the process & worked hard & we are now seeing the results. We are far from the finished product but there are good signs. We're getting the ball wider & faster than previous whilst still being strong in defence & disciplined.

You're definitely correct on the first bits, and I think the WRU will grant the extension too. The thing is I don't remember Pivac ever saying they didn't care about the ANC back then, that was only mentioned this 6N - probably to try and make himself look less bad after the wrong selections, bad results, hiring and firing, etc. It hasn't been plain-sailing this tournament, we did quite poorly in the opening 2 matches. So for me he just hasn't done enough.

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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:46 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:On occasion there has been some good rugby played by Wales, I think we've got better as the tournament has gone on. That said I wouldn't extend Pivac's contract as I don't think he's done enough even if we do beat France.

He'll get the extension, he has done what he has set out to do. The Autumn was a write off as soon as World Rugby announced the early seedings for the RWC so Pivac chose to experiment & try to start building depth which he has done. He said he had different priorities for that & the 6N. Most supporters feared the worst following the Autumn, but the coaching staff & the players trusted the process & worked hard & we are now seeing the results. We are far from the finished product but there are good signs. We're getting the ball wider & faster than previous whilst still being strong in defence & disciplined.

You're definitely correct on the first bits, and I think the WRU will grant the extension too. The thing is I don't remember Pivac ever saying they didn't care about the ANC back then, that was only mentioned this 6N - probably to try and make himself look less bad after the wrong selections, bad results, hiring and firing, etc. It hasn't been plain-sailing this tournament, we did quite poorly in the opening 2 matches. So for me he just hasn't done enough.

You obviously don't read much of the press then Mikey. He said that he was using the ANC to look at his options & integrate players into the squad so he could see who he had. He also said he wanted to bed in his methods of play etc. Yes there were coaches that left but at the end of the day his methods are coming to the fore now & his & his coaching staffs game plan is coming on.

We were not at our best during the first 2 matches, you're right, but the difference from the Autumn is we found a way to win. That is the sign of a good team, managing to grind out a win when they perhaps don't deserve it. Munster used to do it to the majority of teams, they'd sneak a win at the death of just keep hold of the ball after 70 mins.

Are we the finished product no, but there are players & coaches on record from the squad saying we aren't. It's not as if they are declaring they're the best side in world rugby but we're a work in progress & we're heading in the right direction.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:53 am

Oakdene wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:On occasion there has been some good rugby played by Wales, I think we've got better as the tournament has gone on. That said I wouldn't extend Pivac's contract as I don't think he's done enough even if we do beat France.

He'll get the extension, he has done what he has set out to do. The Autumn was a write off as soon as World Rugby announced the early seedings for the RWC so Pivac chose to experiment & try to start building depth which he has done. He said he had different priorities for that & the 6N. Most supporters feared the worst following the Autumn, but the coaching staff & the players trusted the process & worked hard & we are now seeing the results. We are far from the finished product but there are good signs. We're getting the ball wider & faster than previous whilst still being strong in defence & disciplined.

You're definitely correct on the first bits, and I think the WRU will grant the extension too. The thing is I don't remember Pivac ever saying they didn't care about the ANC back then, that was only mentioned this 6N - probably to try and make himself look less bad after the wrong selections, bad results, hiring and firing, etc. It hasn't been plain-sailing this tournament, we did quite poorly in the opening 2 matches. So for me he just hasn't done enough.

You obviously don't read much of the press then Mikey. He said that he was using the ANC to look at his options & integrate players into the squad so he could see who he had. He also said he wanted to bed in his methods of play etc. Yes there were coaches that left but at the end of the day his methods are coming to the fore now & his & his coaching staffs game plan is coming on.  

We were not at our best during the first 2 matches, you're right, but the difference from the Autumn is we found a way to win. That is the sign of a good team, managing to grind out a win when they perhaps don't deserve it. Munster used to do it to the majority of teams, they'd sneak a win at the death of just keep hold of the ball after 70 mins.

Are we the finished product no, but there are players & coaches on record from the squad saying we aren't. It's not as if they are declaring they're the best side in world rugby but we're a work in progress & we're heading in the right direction.

That's not what I said. When he was under pressure in the ANC I don't remember anything of the sort being said by the head coach, although I'm happy for you to point this out if you have the articles? Like I also said, I can only recall Pivac saying that this this tournament when he's under far less pressure. Talk about blowing your own trumpet, bit of a "I told you so" attitude which isn't really welcome in rugby.

Wales have always been able to grind out a win, well ever since Gatland anyway. We've also never lost a Grand Slam decider (to the best of my knowledge). I think we are on an upwards trajectory but seeing as we were so bad in the ANC there's plenty more to go if we are to get back to being ranked No.1 in world rugby - something I'm convinced that Pivac can't help with.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 19 Mar 2021, 12:06 pm

The Oracle wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Nothing will ever top 2005 for me, as it was the first one I had ever experienced. 2008 was good after the 2007 RWC debacle and I actually got to see a game in that tournament (Scotland 2nd). 2012, I was at the GS game v France, so that meant a lot (I won tickets off David Buttress, so always knew I liked the guy). 2019 was okay, but not overly memorable for me.

As it stands, I think I would go 2005, 2012, 2008, 2019. If we did win tomorrow, it would probably go third for me. If we don't, then as Oakdene says I still count the tournament as a success for us, given expectations pre tournament (especially my own Wink)

2005 for me too.  What a day!  It was boiling hot too.  Went to Cardiff to the pubs for the atmosphere.  Still can't believe how many people were out.  There were people up trees, outside City Hall was just a sea of people, the pubs were rammed.  Just one of those awesome days that I can't put into words.  

I was living in Hannover at the time, which was good for me as I was out with another Risca mate and we met another Welsh guy randomly (who got me playing rugby out there then). I remember going out on the streets to phone my dad at FT and a few Germans congratulating Wales, which I thought was pretty cool. Of course seeing all the clips of what you described the next day, was great too.

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Post by No9 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 1:26 pm

With France just announcing a new 3rd Lockdown from midnight tonight... I hope the game tomorrow goes ahead.

Should do, as the Welsh team is already out there and its behind closed doors... but, with the French Gov, you never know.. They may force it to be cancelled at last minute.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 19 Mar 2021, 1:47 pm

It should go ahead shouldn't it, unless there are more cases in camp?

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Post by Oakdene Fri 19 Mar 2021, 1:54 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It should go ahead shouldn't it, unless there are more cases in camp?

Correct. Professional sports are exempt due to the continuous testing & rigid protocols that both camps have in place, well should have.

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Post by chris_501 Fri 19 Mar 2021, 7:11 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Nothing will ever top 2005 for me, as it was the first one I had ever experienced. 2008 was good after the 2007 RWC debacle and I actually got to see a game in that tournament (Scotland 2nd). 2012, I was at the GS game v France, so that meant a lot (I won tickets off David Buttress, so always knew I liked the guy). 2019 was okay, but not overly memorable for me.

As it stands, I think I would go 2005, 2012, 2008, 2019. If we did win tomorrow, it would probably go third for me. If we don't, then as Oakdene says I still count the tournament as a success for us, given expectations pre tournament (especially my own Wink)

2005 for me too.  What a day!  It was boiling hot too.  Went to Cardiff to the pubs for the atmosphere.  Still can't believe how many people were out.  There were people up trees, outside City Hall was just a sea of people, the pubs were rammed.  Just one of those awesome days that I can't put into words.  

I was living in Hannover at the time, which was good for me as I was out with another Risca mate and we met another Welsh guy randomly (who got me playing rugby out there then). I remember going out on the streets to phone my dad at FT and a few Germans congratulating Wales, which I thought was pretty cool. Of course seeing all the clips of what you described the next day, was great too.

It was my birthday while I was a student in Cardiff. While I can remember everything about the England game earlier in that tournament, I can't remember much past Gethin Jenkins' charge down try in that game.

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Post by BamBam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 9:39 am

Wales +7 seems too good to ignore from the bookies. Win win situation for me too, either Wales get battered or I win a decent wedge Hug

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Post by Heaf Sat 20 Mar 2021, 3:35 pm

What odds did you get?

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Post by BamBam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 3:41 pm

1.95 .. it’s moved out to -8 now though

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Post by The Oracle Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:39 pm

Jamie Roberts’ head - yaysus!
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:47 pm

Good luck Wales.
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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:07 pm

Would like to see that challenge on AWJ again.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:08 pm

All of that came from Davies’ awful box kick.

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Post by The Oracle Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:08 pm

Lineout was miles off straight!
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Post by RiscaGame Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:10 pm

That’s true. But you don’t really get them. Refs stand in line with the gap but hardly ever call them.

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Post by The Oracle Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:13 pm

Bugger!
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:13 pm

For me that's a try.
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Post by king_carlos Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:14 pm

I think Ollivon has pulled off an absolute miracle there.

That was a terrific line by LZR as well.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Would like to see that challenge on AWJ again.

I think he gets the ball in the face. Which is lucky because AWJ was very high and could have easily been head on head in which case AWJ's game is over.

You don't get crooked lineout calls unless you have someone contesting it which I don't think Wales were.

Great start from France, Wales were lucky not to pick up a yellow. Great instant response from Wales. Great try saving tackle.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:15 pm

TightHEAD wrote:For me that's a try.

 Ref didn't see it grounded so TMO had to find clear grounding which there wasn't.

Come on end to end attack fest.

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Post by The Oracle Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:16 pm

Get in!
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Post by king_carlos Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:16 pm

Head on head isn't interpreted as high as far as I know.

Wales get the try.

This should be a cracker.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:17 pm

Another awful box

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Post by The Oracle Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:18 pm

Excellent by France. Well spotted space behind.
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Post by tigertattie Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:18 pm

France eh!
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Post by king_carlos Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:18 pm

Oh my rugby.

This France team just have so much flair.

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Post by Mr Bounce Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:18 pm

Can we have Dupont for the Lions?

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