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Cell C Sharks v British & Irish Lions, 7 July

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Post by George Carlin Sun 04 Jul 2021, 5:28 am

Cell C Sharks v British & Irish Lions, 7 July  Sharks10               Cell C Sharks v British & Irish Lions, 7 July  Lions_10                
CELL C SHARKS v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Wednesday 7 July
KO: 19:00 SAST / 18:00 UK / 21:00 Dubai  Very Happy
Emirates Airline Park (Ellis Park), Johannesburg
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)
Assistant Referee 1: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: AJ Jacobs (SARU)
TMO: Marius van der Westhuizen (SARU)

TEAMS:

CELL C SHARKS:
1. Khwezi Mona
2. Fez Mbatha
3. Khutha Mchunu
4. Ruben van Heerden
5. Hyron Andrews
6. James Venter
7. Thembelani Bholi
8. Phepsi Buthelezi (c)

9. Jaden Hendrikse
10. Curwin Bosch
11. Thaakir Abrahams
12. Marius Louw
13. Jeremy Ward
14. Werner Kok
15. Manie Libbok

16. Kerron van Vuuren
17. Ntuthuko Mchunu
18. Wiehahn Herbst
19. JJ van der Mescht
20. Reniel Hugo
21. Dylan Richardson
22. Grant Williams
23. Anthony Volmink

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9. Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
4. Iain Henderson – Captain (Ulster Rugby, Ireland) #808
5. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales)
6. Josh Navidi (Cardiff Rugby, Wales)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England)
8. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
23. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844

COMMENTARY:


Last edited by George Carlin on Mon 05 Jul 2021, 11:58 am; edited 4 times in total
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Post by George Carlin Sun 04 Jul 2021, 3:22 pm

So other than Tom Curry, everyone's had a game already?
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Post by RiscaGame Sun 04 Jul 2021, 5:02 pm

It’s a start though, isn’t it. So there are a few who haven’t had that still.

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Post by flyhalffactory Sun 04 Jul 2021, 10:21 pm

Evening All
Pretty solid squad performance on the weekend albeit against totally different opponents to Japan in style and quality. Two outstanding individual hands up added to Biggar's MOTM v Japan, however (over the two games) nobody played themselves out of it.

There were causes for concerns, discipline, structure but the main concern were the broken play areas of rucks, mauls and turnovers, Itoje and Lawes should have been better.

In my mind, at this point, probably there are two players who are in the test 15
11 Adams
10 Biggar

The match against the Sharks will be a much sterner test and will introduce;
5 Beard
6 Navidi
7 Curry
Who could with stand out plays, meander into the test side, Beard if he can jackal effectively and the specialist 6 Navidi if he win the breakdown could nudge ahead of Beirne and Lawes
7 is a bit more intriguing, with Toonies influence I think the open-side flanker will be a fast fluid role which Watson implemented perfectly, Curry has to pull out one hell of a shift to rip the shirt off Hamish.

I think Owens will start with Beard calling the line with Henderson at 4
Still 21 shirts up for grabs
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Post by Old Man Sun 04 Jul 2021, 10:37 pm

Personally I thought for such a young team the Sigma Lions gave the Tourists a good run out for the first 50 minutes.

Showed there is some work to do on the wider defence and gave a good account of themselves at the set piece during that time.

A worthwhile exercise for the BI Lions

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 04 Jul 2021, 11:36 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Evening All
Pretty solid squad performance on the weekend albeit against totally different opponents to Japan in style and quality. Two outstanding individual hands up added to Biggar's MOTM v Japan, however (over the two games) nobody played themselves out of it.

There were causes for concerns, discipline, structure but the main concern were the broken play areas of rucks, mauls and turnovers, Itoje and Lawes should have been better.

In my mind, at this point, probably there are two players who are in the test 15
11 Adams
10 Biggar

The match against the Sharks will be a much sterner test and will introduce;
5 Beard
6 Navidi
7 Curry
Who could with stand out plays, meander into the test side, Beard if he can jackal effectively and the specialist 6 Navidi if he win the breakdown could nudge ahead of Beirne and Lawes
7 is a bit more intriguing, with Toonies influence I think the open-side flanker will be a fast fluid role which Watson implemented perfectly, Curry has to pull out one hell of a shift to rip the shirt off Hamish.

I think Owens will start with Beard calling the line with Henderson at 4
Still 21 shirts up for grabs
But Farrell did not score a try, mate..........

Thinking about the number 7 shirt, Hamish Watson with Curry on the bench as a replacement, or Curry with Hamish coming on as a replacement would both be awesome. We have to see how Curry goes in his start, but regardless how this plays out there is no real drop off in quality either way, just a different style of play. Will be interesting to see how the number 8 plays out as well as blindside.

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Post by takethelongroad Sun 04 Jul 2021, 11:42 pm

Curry on the test bench works for me as he covers more positions. Same reason lawes and daly make my bench too.

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Post by RDW Sun 04 Jul 2021, 11:54 pm

I wonder if Gatland is thinking about Curry at 8. I don't think that's where he's best served at international level, but if the plan is to be mobile and attack the breakdown that's a pretty lethal backrow combo what Watson and Lawes/Beirne. I'd still rather a proper 8 though.

Onto this game, I posted in the previous thread that the following still need a start

1 Vunipola
2 LCD
3 Fagerson
4
5 Beard
6 Navidi
7 Curry (injury concern)
8 Simmons

9 Davies
10
11
12
13 Daley
14
15 Watson

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Post by Rugby Fan Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:32 am

If you polled general supporters, not many would have Owen Farrell as a Test starter, either at 10 or 12. Meanwhile, a number of old pros think he needs to be in the team. Just this weekend, Ronan O'Gara and Tom Shanklin both said they would start him. It's not often a player divides opinion like that.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 05 Jul 2021, 3:39 am

Rugby Fan wrote:If you polled general supporters, not many would have Owen Farrell as a Test starter, either at 10 or 12. Meanwhile, a number of old pros think he needs to be in the team. Just this weekend, Ronan O'Gara and Tom Shanklin both said they would start him. It's not often a player divides opinion like that.
Not sure O'Gara and Shanklin are on a different page. They are involved in rival clubs.
Of course they want to see Farrell......

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Post by George Carlin Mon 05 Jul 2021, 5:58 am

I don't know what it is that I've clicked in the past but my news feed over the past fortnight seems to comprise people writing for various Irish mainstream and rugby publications whose collective theme song seems to be that Finn Russell is rubbish and shouldn't even be out there. One of them nominated Sexton as his 'starting fly half for the tests'. Shocked
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Post by RDW Mon 05 Jul 2021, 7:30 am

There are definitely some elements of Irish rugby that seem to have major issues with Scottish rugby (O'Gara, Eddie O'Sullivan, Matt Williams, the entire Munster team etc). The latter one is understandable given their run-ins with Glasgow and specifically Ryan Wilson over the years! I still can't quite understand how Matt Williams is seen as a respectable pundit in Irish media though - he's definitely from the Piers Morgan school of broadcasting.

As for O'Gara, it's no surprise that he's backing Sexton really, although if he was being truthful with himself he'd probably realise that Sexton's not been the same player for a few years now. There would also be major, major question marks on whether he could stay fit. If Biggar and/or Farrell weren't fit I would have taken Sexton as an experienced head. Given that we have both, I think it was the correct call to have an alternative type of player in Finn.

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 7:43 am

Not a fan of O’Gara, seems like a very biased human to me. I suppose there is nothing wrong with that, except there are times when bias can make you lose credibility.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 05 Jul 2021, 10:14 am

O'Garas reasoning seems to be defence and solidity first and foremost which isn't the way I'd go myself. Of course there's a balance but to suggest that you just shut up shop for 50 mins then open up and throw him on, not sure.

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Post by RDW Mon 05 Jul 2021, 10:15 am

Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) and Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) will make their Lions debuts on Wednesday evening when the tourists take on Cell C Sharks at Emirates Airline Park (kick off 6pm BST).

Ireland lock, Iain Henderson (Ulster Rugby, Ireland), will captain the Lions for the first time, while Tour Captain, Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland), is named amongst the replacements.

The game, which will be shown live and exclusively on Sky Sports, is the second of eight Tour matches in the 2021 Castle Lager Lions Series which culminates with three Tests against World Champions, the Springboks.

“It’s a quick turnaround from Saturday, but we’ll be ready to go by Wednesday night,” said Lions Head Coach Warren Gatland.

“I’m pleased we managed to come through the weekend’s game unscathed, and the boys have rested and recovered well. We feel like we’re slowly building, but, as ever, there’s still room for improvement in all facets of our game.


“Wednesday night is another chance for us to have a look at a few more combinations. I’m looking forward to seeing how the back row goes; it’s an exciting mixture and one that we hope will offer something a bit different.

“We expect another physical test against a side who are known for their power play and ambition.

“My congratulations to Tom, Josh and Adam ahead of their first starts in a Lions jersey.”

The Lions opened their 2021 Castle Lager Lions Series with an eight-try victory over Sigma Lions.

CELL C SHARKS v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816

13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837

11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841

10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821

9. Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787

2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851

3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848

4. Iain Henderson – Captain (Ulster Rugby, Ireland) #808

5. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales)

6. Josh Navidi (Cardiff Rugby, Wales)

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England)

8. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849

Replacements:

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829

17. Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840

18. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818

19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838

20. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

22. Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783

23. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844

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Post by RDW Mon 05 Jul 2021, 10:18 am

Looks like Hoggy will be getting a runout at 10!

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Post by BamBam Mon 05 Jul 2021, 10:25 am

That back row drumroll

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 05 Jul 2021, 10:26 am

Daly and van der Merwe is not a match made in heaven for me.

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 10:37 am

Sharks team for the match

1. Khwezi Mona
2. Fez Mbatha
3. Khutha Mchunu
4. Ruben van Heerden
5. Hyron Andrews
6. James Venter
7. Thembelani Bholi
8. Phepsi Buthelezi (c)
9. Jaden Hendrikse
10. Curwin Bosch
11. Thaakir Abrahams
12. Marius Louw
13. Jeremy Ward
14. Werner Kok
15. Manie Libbok

Replacements
16. Kerron van Vuuren
17. Ntuthuko Mchunu
18. Wiehahn Herbst
19. JJ van der Mescht
20. Reniel Hugo
21. Dylan Richardson
22. Grant Williams
23. Anthony Volmink

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Post by lostinwales Mon 05 Jul 2021, 11:03 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Daly and van der Merwe is not a match made in heaven for me.

Defensively? Could be fun on offense though. Both rapid, Daly is pretty good at choosing when to pass. The back row is fast and smart enough to cover the gaps.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 05 Jul 2021, 11:14 am

Yes sorry. Only defensively. I think both have a lot to offer going forward unless Daly brings his 6 nations form. Think he broke up more England attacks than the opposition put together. The vision and lovely pass on Saturday may hopefully signify hes found a bit more composure.

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Post by flyhalffactory Mon 05 Jul 2021, 11:27 am

lostinwales wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Daly and van der Merwe is not a match made in heaven for me.

Defensively? Could be fun on offense though. Both rapid, Daly is pretty good at choosing when to pass. The back row is fast and smart enough to cover the gaps.

"Perception"
DvdM had the best defensive stats of all the wingers during the 6Ns, I believe Daly is sound defensively, so I wouldn't worry yourself about their combined defensive efforts. DvdM positioning sometimes could be better but the gaps v Japan wasn't just down to him and he was marking an extremely skilful winger
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Post by flyhalffactory Mon 05 Jul 2021, 11:31 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes sorry. Only defensively. I think both have a lot to offer going forward unless Daly brings his 6 nations form. Think he broke up more England attacks than the opposition put together. The vision and lovely pass on Saturday may hopefully signify hes found a bit more composure.

Can you qualify that 7.5? or is it just a sweeping statement?

As DvdM 6Ns stats proved how good he was/is defensively, I'm assuming you mean Daly. Personally for me Daly has been excellent for Saracens this season although haven't got anything to back it up


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Post by doctor_grey Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:15 pm

I like the selections.  The one that really sticks out is Daly at 13, where he came up and it appears Gatland sees as his best position.  Unlike with England.  His 6 Nations and prior form may not mean too much as he was mostly on the wing or at fullback.  He might mesh well with Aki, a real 12, and will be good to see Biggar at outhalf with Davies feeding him the ball.  

The front row will be interesting and really want to see how Mako stands up in the scrum. Lions need better push from the front row, and I think the replacements might do a jot better, though I like Fagerson.  

The back row could be like a dynamo, using Navidi and Curry to stifle, cause confusion at the breakdown, and grab some turnover ball, whilst Simmonds as one of the primary attacking weapons.  This part will be fun.  

One thing I don't get is the potential pairing off the bench of Murray with Hogg, if Gatland actually pulls Biggar and Hogg goes in at outhalf.  They seem very different players and I think Price or Davies would match up better with Hogg.  

I would be happy to see Liam Williams get a full match at fullback.


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Post by George Carlin Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:16 pm

I'm interested to know what people think Navidi's natural home is.

I always saw him as a pure openside whilst at the Blues - am I wrong? Is he really interchangeable as a more mobile version of Beirne and Lawes?
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Post by BamBam Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:17 pm

Old Man wrote:Sharks team for the match

1. Khwezi Mona
2. Fez Mbatha
3. Khutha Mchunu
4. Ruben van Heerden
5. Hyron Andrews
6. James Venter
7. Thembelani Bholi
8. Phepsi Buthelezi (c)
9. Jaden Hendrikse
10. Curwin Bosch
11. Thaakir Abrahams
12. Marius Louw
13. Jeremy Ward
14. Werner Kok
15. Manie Libbok

Replacements
16. Kerron van Vuuren
17. Ntuthuko Mchunu
18. Wiehahn Herbst
19. JJ van der Mescht
20. Reniel Hugo
21. Dylan Richardson
22. Grant Williams
23. Anthony Volmink

I seem to remember Curwin Bosch was very highly rated as a youngster, has he just not quite kicked on to full Springbok level?

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:20 pm

George Carlin wrote:I'm interested to know what people think Navidi's natural home is.

I always saw him as a pure openside whilst at the Blues - am I wrong? Is he really interchangeable as a more mobile version of Beirne and Lawes?
I have mostly seen him at an openside, so who knows. But we are going to find out....

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:21 pm

This match will be interesting from a South African supporter’s perspective. The pack is quite young bar Mona and Bholi, but it is an exciting pack, decent scrummagers in Bholi and Mchunu, both loves to carry, mobile, good defenders and cleaners, the lock pairing is young, but physical, Van Heerden is a great ball carrier.

The backrow is mobile and Physical, Buthulezi is an exciting player.

Half back pairing not the most physical, Bosch has good feet, poor defence.

Back line perhaps not on par with their forwards.

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Post by BamBam Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:22 pm

George Carlin wrote:I'm interested to know what people think Navidi's natural home is.

I always saw him as a pure openside whilst at the Blues - am I wrong? Is he really interchangeable as a more mobile version of Beirne and Lawes?

I'd say he's equivalent to Curry, can play anywhere across the back row, but ideally at flanker

Beirne, Lawes, Henderson at a push all cover lock and 6
Curry and Navidi can play 6 and 7 comfortably, 8 at a push
Watson is the pure openside
Faletau and Conan the 8 options
Simmonds any of the back row slots but preferably 8 with the right balance around him

Its a good set of options, I would have preferred Navidi over Tipuric in the original selection just because he's so physical at the ruck, which is what we need

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:23 pm

BamBam wrote:
Old Man wrote:Sharks team for the match

1. Khwezi Mona
2. Fez Mbatha
3. Khutha Mchunu
4. Ruben van Heerden
5. Hyron Andrews
6. James Venter
7. Thembelani Bholi
8. Phepsi Buthelezi (c)
9. Jaden Hendrikse
10. Curwin Bosch
11. Thaakir Abrahams
12. Marius Louw
13. Jeremy Ward
14. Werner Kok
15. Manie Libbok

Replacements
16. Kerron van Vuuren
17. Ntuthuko Mchunu
18. Wiehahn Herbst
19. JJ van der Mescht
20. Reniel Hugo
21. Dylan Richardson
22. Grant Williams
23. Anthony Volmink

I seem to remember Curwin Bosch was very highly rated as a youngster, has he just not quite kicked on to full Springbok level?

I don’t belive Bosch is a quality 10, he has good feet and can break the line when he has some space, but defensively a turnstyle, good boot, not so consistent, he is a confidence player, and more often than not, he doesn’t show confidence

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Post by George Carlin Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:27 pm

Interesting to compare official Lions website stats on relative size too:

Tom Curry - 1.85m, 110kg
Josh Navidi - 1.85m, 105kg
Hamish Watson - 1.85m, 101kg
Courtney Lawes - 2.01m, 113kg
Sam Simmonds - 1.88m, 90kg
Jack Conan - 1.93m, 114kg
Tadhg Beirne - 1.98m, 113kg

Curry really is a bigger man than the other opensides, Simmonds needs to focus on pie consumption.


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Post by flyhalffactory Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:28 pm

George Carlin wrote:I'm interested to know what people think Navidi's natural home is.

I always saw him as a pure openside whilst at the Blues - am I wrong? Is he really interchangeable as a more mobile version of Beirne and Lawes?

He played against us Edinburgh in 2016 as a blindside and played for Wales mostly 6 with Tips 7, Faletau 8, I always got the impression he was a specialist 6 who is talented enough to cover all across the BR ala Tom Curry
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Post by George Carlin Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:31 pm

Old Man wrote:This match will be interesting from a South African supporter’s perspective. The pack is quite young bar Mona and Bholi, but it is an exciting pack, decent scrummagers in Bholi and Mchunu, both loves to carry, mobile, good defenders and cleaners, the lock pairing is young, but physical, Van Heerden is a great ball carrier.

The backrow is mobile and Physical, Buthulezi is an exciting player.

Half back pairing not the most physical, Bosch has good feet, poor defence.

Back line perhaps not on par with their forwards.
Please keep these insights coming, er, Old Man (feels rude to say that) - I would have no background on the opposition otherwise. I haven't found any particularly good Saffer sources of current rugby articles. Where should I be looking for those?
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Post by RDW Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:32 pm

George Carlin wrote:Interesting to compare official Lions website stats on relative size too:

Tom Curry - 1.85m, 110kg
Josh Navidi - 1.85m, 105kg
Hamish Watson - 1.85m, 101kg
Courtney Lawes - 2.01m, 113kg
Sam Simmonds - 1.88m, 90kg
Jack Conan - 1.93m, 114kg
Tadhg Beirne - 1.98m, 113kg

Curry is a bigger man the other opensides, Simmonds needs to focus on pie consumption.

There's no way that Simmons stat is accurate! That would make him the same build as Hogg, which he clearly isn't.

Exeter stats say 103kg which looks much more realistic.

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:35 pm

The only people I really listen to is the Supersport panel on “Final Whistle” There is also a show named “Masterplan, they do share some of it on Youtube. But not all.

Brendan Nel is a decent read, Mark Keohane loves to be controversial.

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Post by flyhalffactory Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:39 pm

doctor_grey wrote:I like the selections.  The one that really sticks out is Daly at 13, where he came up and it appears Gatland sees as his best position.  Unlike with England.  His 6 Nations and prior form may not mean too much as he was mostly on the wing or at fullback.  He might mesh well with Aki, a real 12, and will be good to see Biggar at outhalf with Davies feeding him the ball.  

The front row will be interesting and really want to see how Mako stands up in the scrum. Lions need better push from the front row, and I think the replacements might do a jot better, though I like Fagerson.  

The back row could be like a dynamo, using Navidi and Curry to stifle, cause confusion at the breakdown, and grab some turnover ball, whilst Simmonds as one of the primary attacking weapons.  This part will be fun.  

One thing I don't get is the potential pairing off the bench of Murray with Hogg, if Gatland actually pulls Biggar and Hogg goes in at outhalf.  They seem very different players and I think Price or Davies would match up better with Hogg.  

I would be happy to see Liam Williams get a full match at fullback.

Good Post Doc
Davies/Biggar know each other inside out
Really like Daly at 13, got it all acceleration, pace, good upper body strength, howitzer of a left peg, Biggar/Aki/Daly look very dangerous and direct, in fact the whole team from 1-23 are direct with speed
Hat-trick for Simmonds? Whistle
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Post by bsando Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:40 pm

Big game for Fagerson, he may have been selected ahead of Sinkler but there’s a huge section of rugby media who probably think Sinkler should be starting the first test even ahead of furlong. He’s got to show why he was picked in the initial squad and bring some of his best form on Wednesday night.

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:45 pm

Old Man wrote:The only people I really listen to is the Supersport panel on “Final Whistle” There is also a show named “Masterplan, they do share some of it on Youtube. But not all.

Brendan Nel is a decent read, Mark Keohane loves to be controversial.

You could also read SA rugby mag, has some opinion pieces, but mostly up to date news

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Post by George Carlin Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:51 pm

Old Man wrote:
Old Man wrote:The only people I really listen to is the Supersport panel on “Final Whistle” There is also a show named “Masterplan, they do share some of it on Youtube. But not all.

Brendan Nel is a decent read, Mark Keohane loves to be controversial.

You could also read SA rugby mag, has some opinion pieces, but mostly up to date news
Mark Keohane is that bald, gobby WUM merchant who declared the entire Lions squad useless following the announcement and in particular slammed Duhan VDM as "some limited kid from George".

Yes, the Stephen Jones of Saffer circles.
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Post by George Carlin Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:53 pm

bsando wrote:Big game for Fagerson, he may have been selected ahead of Sinkler but there’s a huge section of rugby media who probably think Sinkler should be starting the first test even ahead of furlong. He’s got to show why he was picked in the initial squad and bring some of his best form on Wednesday night.
We know why he was chosen - he can play for 85 minutes and is a very technically accomplished scrummager - as Sinkler knows having conceded a number of penalties to that Scottish scrum this year. Let's hope Zander lets the nerves go and just goes hard because he's a beast and this tour could well be his time.
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Post by MichaelT Mon 05 Jul 2021, 12:58 pm

George Carlin wrote: as Sinkler knows having conceded a number of penalties to that Scottish scrum this year.

Pretty sure Sinckler was banned for the Scottish game? If its the Six Nations you're talking about.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 05 Jul 2021, 1:03 pm

MichaelT wrote:
George Carlin wrote: as Sinkler knows having conceded a number of penalties to that Scottish scrum this year.

Pretty sure Sinckler was banned for the Scottish game? If its the Six Nations you're talking about.

Plus wrong side of the scrum. But I understand the original point.

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Post by Old Man Mon 05 Jul 2021, 1:12 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Old Man wrote:The only people I really listen to is the Supersport panel on “Final Whistle” There is also a show named “Masterplan, they do share some of it on Youtube. But not all.

Brendan Nel is a decent read, Mark Keohane loves to be controversial.

You could also read SA rugby mag, has some opinion pieces, but mostly up to date news
Mark Keohane is that bald, gobby WUM merchant who declared the entire Lions squad useless following the announcement and in particular slammed Duhan VDM as "some limited kid from George".

Yes, the Stephen Jones of Saffer circles.

Yep, worst of the worst.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 05 Jul 2021, 1:24 pm

Now that we are into the mid-week games (for the few that there are), is there much to be made to the assumption that anyone in this match that played the full 80 minutes is likely to be a mid-week warrior and tackle bag holder for the rest of the Tour?
Hearing Henderson named as the captain for this fixture has the hallmarks of Best being told to babysit the mid-week players on a previous tour.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 05 Jul 2021, 1:24 pm

For the record, and I don't say this lightly, a reasonable number of med people have submitted filings with the BMA.  I know just a few, but they do carry weight.  The process needs to run its course and will not happen overnight.  The number of filings, as I understand, is above normal.

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Post by BamBam Mon 05 Jul 2021, 1:46 pm

General point rather than this game, but Lood De Jager has tested positive for COVID and the entire SA squad is in isolation

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1412023674786484228?s=20

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 05 Jul 2021, 1:49 pm

And Snyman looks to be ruled out too. Did I read here that Etzebeth has a cracked rib?

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Post by jimbopip Mon 05 Jul 2021, 2:05 pm

doctor_grey wrote:For the record, and I don't say this lightly, a reasonable number of med people have submitted filings with the BMA.  I know just a few, but they do carry weight.  The process needs to run its course and will not happen overnight.  The number of filings, as I understand, is above normal.
Doc, as a non medical type, I am slightly baffled by this post. Some elucidation would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

On a rugby front... Henshaw-Daly at 12-13 for the First Test?

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Post by jimbopip Mon 05 Jul 2021, 2:09 pm

Breaking news....
Lood de Jager has tested positive for covid. The entire Boks squad are in isolation.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 05 Jul 2021, 2:21 pm

jimbopip wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:For the record, and I don't say this lightly, a reasonable number of med people have submitted filings with the BMA.  I know just a few, but they do carry weight.  The process needs to run its course and will not happen overnight.  The number of filings, as I understand, is above normal.
Doc, as a non medical type, I am slightly baffled by this post. Some elucidation would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

On a rugby front... Henshaw-Daly at 12-13 for the First Test?
Sorry mate.  This is about the Luke Cowan-Dickie incident.  He appeared to have been knocked out cold in the Premiership final and was removed from the game, yet was on the plane the next day and was on the bench and played for the Lions just a week later.  Some people think this was irresponsible, others think this was medical malfeasance.  This was brought up in the Lions-Lions thread and was highlighted in articles in The Guardian and The Telegraph, if not elsewhere as well:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/07/03/players-group-express-concern-luke-cowan-dickies-lions-selection/
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/03/luke-cowan-dickie-lions-selection-denounced-after-recent-head-injury-rugby-union

My bigger issue is putting him on a 12 hour flight less than 24 hours afterwards, but playing a week after does happen if the player passed all the protocols, but still seemed rushed and needless to me.  I filed a paper of concern, but clearly was not alone.

Interesting about Daly.  At 13, he seemed a natural 13, which is where he played when he came up.  On paper, at least for now, a Henshaw-Daly midfield has got to be given a go, at least in the run-up games.  Almost seems a match made in.... SA.


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