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Stormers v British & Irish Lions - 17/7/21 - 17:00 ko.

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Post by TightHEAD Thu 15 Jul 2021, 11:41

First topic message reminder :

Smith Starts at 10


DHL STORMERS v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, England)
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England) #845
Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:

Jamie George (Saracens, England) #819
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales) #761
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850
Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales) #846

Stormers

15 Sergeal Petersen, 14 Seabelo Senatla, 13 Rikus Pretorius, 12 Dan du Plessis, 11 Edwill van der Merwe, 10 Tim Swiel, 9 Godlen Masimla, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Johan du Toit, 6 Nama Xaba, 5 JD Schickerling, 4 Ernst van Rhyn (captain), 3 Neethling Fouche, 2 JJ Kotze, 1 Leon Lyons

Substitutes (from): 16 Andre-Hugo Venter, 17 Kwenzo Blose, 18 Sazi Sandi, 19 Justin Basson, 20 Marcel Theunissen, 21 Thomas Bursey, 22 Abner van Reenen, 23 Juan de Jongh, 24 Lee-Marvin Mazibuko, 25 Niel Otto, 26 Leolin Zas, 27 Cornel Smit


Saturday 17 July 2021

Cape Town Stadium, Cape Town

Kick-off: 5pm (BST)


Last edited by TightHEAD on Fri 16 Jul 2021, 09:24; edited 2 times in total
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Post by BigGee Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:43

Stormers are cooked now, but that was a good try again

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:45

Tadgh Beirne gambolling down the wing making space, drawing and passing with the backs. Great engine.
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Post by BigGee Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:47

Well that game certainly has not made the selection dilemmas any easier!

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:48

Well done Stormers.
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Post by BigGee Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:48

Despite Duhan VDM not scoring tonight, I thought that was his best game on the tour so far. Maybe not enough to get him a test spot, but he is certainly close!

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Post by TJ Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:49

Price is much quicker and has a break that Davies does not. Price is the front runner for tests by a mile, Davies will be lucky to be on the bench

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Post by BigGee Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:51

TJ wrote:Price is much quicker and has a break that Davies does not.  Price is the front runner for tests by a mile,  Davies will be lucky to be on the bench

I would have Price starting and Murray on the bench to close the game out!

Price has been the best SH by a country mile. probably the Scottish player most deserving of a start!

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Post by Poorfour Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:51

BigGee wrote:Despite Duhan VDM not scoring tonight, I thought that was his best game on the tour so far. Maybe not enough to get him a test spot, but he is certainly close!

If he could pass, he’d be dangerous
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Post by BigGee Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:54

Poorfour wrote:
BigGee wrote:Despite Duhan VDM not scoring tonight, I thought that was his best game on the tour so far. Maybe not enough to get him a test spot, but he is certainly close!

If he could pass, he’d be dangerous

I think you might find that he is dangerous, I would not fancy tackling him!

I thought he took the team game today, took contact more often than normal and set up the next phase having got the team on the front foot

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 17 Jul 2021, 18:55

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Price doesn't seem keen on passing to Smith so far. Think he's only had 3 touches.

Doesn't really look that settled when he has touched it. Pretty underwhelming from Smith so far but hopefully he'll grow into the game and show what he's all about in the second half.

Price has been excellent so far for the Lions and is the man pulling the strings. The flankers are a great combination and a cut above. Could easily be the starting 6 and 7 with Curry on the bench and Lawes covering lock and openside.

Stormers are proving a physical test but when the Lions have momentum they are opening them up.

I disagree. He had one wobbly high ball - which he managed to knock back while being tackled, but the other few touches he’s had have been tidy. Bryan Habana seems to agree with me.

I was thinking of the hospital pass he gave Daly on the counter attack that Daly managed to tip away as he got hit to keep the move alive.

Second half he looked to settle in and start playing more of his game. Playing with that level of backline really suits him because he doesn't have to stop and think, the players around him are always going to have a really high skillset and so will give and take the offloads he wants and be ready for the crossfield kicks. Gatland may well look at him for the bench role if Russell isn't fit, he can definitely add something if the Lions need it.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 17 Jul 2021, 19:00

Pot Hale wrote:Try made and well executed by Smith.  He’s been more inventive than any of the three so far.
Would have been nice if they actually allowed some time with the ball in the first half.

I am still ruminating on this game, but I think my initial assessment will likely prove valid.

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 17 Jul 2021, 19:02

Highlight players from that match

Cowan Dickie
Furlong
Beard
Beirne
Conan
Smith
Henshaw
Van der Merwe
Vunipola
Fagerson
Davies



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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 19:12

Well, that takes care of the preparation, now Gatland and Jacques Nienaber must select their matchday 23’s for the first test.

From a selection base Nienaber has the easier job, he knows who his best 23 is.

Gatland on the other hand has to decide what game style he wants to play.

Interestingly in most of the matches the teams could hold the Lions physicality for roughly 30 minutes, and then the flood gates opened.

The Lions across the park had better athletes, more skilled and more powerful than the teams they played, bar perhaps the SA A team.

The Bulls match today left me confused as to what exactly the motivation was and benefits for the Boks, their method and decision making in their preparation was very one dimensional, kicking and mauling, and neither was up to scratch in my view.

They played with about 40% possession today, and it is clear Elton Jantjies is not up to scratch and even Reinach looked slow behind the ruck.

Their front row misses Beast badly.

Oosthuizen is technically a very poor prop, and I have been saying that for a long time now.

There might be an injury cloud over Willie le Roux.

My matchday 23 for the Boks will be.

1. Kitshoff
2. Mbonambi
3. Malherbe
4. Etzebeth
5. Mostert
6. Kolisi (He will be there, however I am concerned about his fitness)
7. Du Toit
8. Kwagga Smith
9. Faf (would have been Reinach but he was disappointing today)
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. Damian de Allende
13. Am
14. Kolbe
15. Kriel if le Roux is unavailable

16. Marx
17. Nyakane
18. Koch
19. De Jager
20. Du Preez
21. Marco v Staden
22. Herschel Jantjies
23. Damian Willemse (Would love to see Goosen as the utility sub)

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 17 Jul 2021, 19:32

You raise a good point about Reinach. I watched most games he played with Northampton Saints in the Premiership and he was a game changer. He could create something from nothing, got people moving, and raised the attacking level of the team. Just his leaving Saints left them as a very average attacking and occasionally plodding team. With no coverage of French Rugby over here this season, and of course no Springbok Rugby, I haven't had a chance to see him play or even hear much about him. Is he even in the reckoning?

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Post by BigGee Sat 17 Jul 2021, 19:45

From what I have seen, for the Lions

1. Jones
2. George
3. Furlough
4. Itoje
5. Beard
6. Beirne
7. Watson
8. Falatue
9. Price
10. Biggar
11. Adams
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Watson
15. Hogg

Subs:

Vunipolo
LCD
Sinkler
AWJ
Lawes
Curry
Murray
Daly

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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 19:51

doctor_grey wrote:You raise a good point about Reinach.  I watched most games he played with Northampton Saints in the Premiership and he was a game changer.  He could create something from nothing, got people moving, and raised the attacking level of the team.  Just his leaving Saints left them as a very average attacking and occasionally plodding team.  With no coverage of French Rugby over here this season, and of course no Springbok Rugby, I haven't had a chance to see him play or even hear much about him. Is he even in the reckoning?    

I think he is third in the queue Faf, then Herschel Jantjies then him.

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Post by George Carlin Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:02

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Post by George Carlin Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:03

Old Man wrote:Well, that takes care of the preparation, now Gatland and Jacques Nienaber must select their matchday 23’s for the first test.

From a selection base Nienaber has the easier job, he knows who his best 23 is.

Gatland on the other hand has to decide what game style he wants to play.

Interestingly in most of the matches the teams could hold the Lions physicality for roughly 30 minutes, and then the flood gates opened.

The Lions across the park had better athletes, more skilled and more powerful than the teams they played, bar perhaps the SA A team.

The Bulls match today left me confused as to what exactly the motivation was and benefits for the Boks, their method and decision making in their preparation was very one dimensional, kicking and mauling, and neither was up to scratch in my view.

They played with about 40% possession today, and it is clear Elton Jantjies is not up to scratch and even Reinach looked slow behind the ruck.

Their front row misses Beast badly.

Oosthuizen is technically a very poor prop, and I have been saying that for a long time now.

There might be an injury cloud over Willie le Roux.

My matchday 23 for the Boks will be.

1. Kitshoff
2. Mbonambi
3. Malherbe
4. Etzebeth
5. Mostert
6. Kolisi (He will be there, however I am concerned about his fitness)
7. Du Toit
8. Kwagga Smith
9. Faf (would have been Reinach but he was disappointing today)
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. Damian de Allende
13. Am
14. Kolbe
15. Kriel if le Roux is unavailable

16. Marx
17. Nyakane
18. Koch
19. De Jager
20. Du Preez
21. Marco v Staden
22. Herschel Jantjies
23. Damian Willemse (Would love to see Goosen as the utility sub)
How do you think the first test will go, OM?
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Post by R!skysports Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:10

Pot Hale wrote:
TJ wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Davies picking up the pace a lot at SH.  Seems better suited to playing with Smith.  Price is a bit pedestrian.  

Eh?  Davis is soooooooooooooooooo much slower than price

He’s still pedestrian in his play.  Davies much more alert to opportunities.

Think you might be the only person in the world that thinks that way Wink

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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:18

George Carlin wrote:
Old Man wrote:Well, that takes care of the preparation, now Gatland and Jacques Nienaber must select their matchday 23’s for the first test.

From a selection base Nienaber has the easier job, he knows who his best 23 is.

Gatland on the other hand has to decide what game style he wants to play.

Interestingly in most of the matches the teams could hold the Lions physicality for roughly 30 minutes, and then the flood gates opened.

The Lions across the park had better athletes, more skilled and more powerful than the teams they played, bar perhaps the SA A team.

The Bulls match today left me confused as to what exactly the motivation was and benefits for the Boks, their method and decision making in their preparation was very one dimensional, kicking and mauling, and neither was up to scratch in my view.

They played with about 40% possession today, and it is clear Elton Jantjies is not up to scratch and even Reinach looked slow behind the ruck.

Their front row misses Beast badly.

Oosthuizen is technically a very poor prop, and I have been saying that for a long time now.

There might be an injury cloud over Willie le Roux.

My matchday 23 for the Boks will be.

1. Kitshoff
2. Mbonambi
3. Malherbe
4. Etzebeth
5. Mostert
6. Kolisi (He will be there, however I am concerned about his fitness)
7. Du Toit
8. Kwagga Smith
9. Faf (would have been Reinach but he was disappointing today)
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. Damian de Allende
13. Am
14. Kolbe
15. Kriel if le Roux is unavailable

16. Marx
17. Nyakane
18. Koch
19. De Jager
20. Du Preez
21. Marco v Staden
22. Herschel Jantjies
23. Damian Willemse (Would love to see Goosen as the utility sub)
How do you think the first test will go, OM?

I am concerned about the fitness of the SA players, it is difficult to know what impact covid had on those testing positive for covid, read that is can affect lung function even if you weren’t very ill.

I am very concerned with the game tactics of the Boks, kicking away possession, trying to maul at every opportunity, one of runners and discipline.

So not very confident.

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Post by cb Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:18

Beirne and Cowan-Dickie played very well today.  Also Beard, Price, & VDM.  Smith improved during the game. Hill not bad at lock.  The other backs mostly OK.  The front-row did not do a lot in the early scrums.  Watson and Conan OK to good in the backrow.

Price seemed much better than Murray.

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Post by George Carlin Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:28

Old Man wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Old Man wrote:Well, that takes care of the preparation, now Gatland and Jacques Nienaber must select their matchday 23’s for the first test.

From a selection base Nienaber has the easier job, he knows who his best 23 is.

Gatland on the other hand has to decide what game style he wants to play.

Interestingly in most of the matches the teams could hold the Lions physicality for roughly 30 minutes, and then the flood gates opened.

The Lions across the park had better athletes, more skilled and more powerful than the teams they played, bar perhaps the SA A team.

The Bulls match today left me confused as to what exactly the motivation was and benefits for the Boks, their method and decision making in their preparation was very one dimensional, kicking and mauling, and neither was up to scratch in my view.

They played with about 40% possession today, and it is clear Elton Jantjies is not up to scratch and even Reinach looked slow behind the ruck.

Their front row misses Beast badly.

Oosthuizen is technically a very poor prop, and I have been saying that for a long time now.

There might be an injury cloud over Willie le Roux.

My matchday 23 for the Boks will be.

1. Kitshoff
2. Mbonambi
3. Malherbe
4. Etzebeth
5. Mostert
6. Kolisi (He will be there, however I am concerned about his fitness)
7. Du Toit
8. Kwagga Smith
9. Faf (would have been Reinach but he was disappointing today)
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. Damian de Allende
13. Am
14. Kolbe
15. Kriel if le Roux is unavailable

16. Marx
17. Nyakane
18. Koch
19. De Jager
20. Du Preez
21. Marco v Staden
22. Herschel Jantjies
23. Damian Willemse (Would love to see Goosen as the utility sub)
How do you think the first test will go, OM?

I am concerned about the fitness of the SA players, it is difficult to know what impact covid had on those testing positive for covid, read that is can affect lung function even if you weren’t very ill.

I am very concerned with the game tactics of the Boks, kicking away possession, trying to maul at every opportunity, one of runners and discipline.

So not very confident.
Your smother defence is fabulous, though and we apparently aren't great at stopping driving mauls. 

Playing without the ball (particularly if the conditions were the same as they were tonight) may well be the best way to win and play within the confines of the players' fitness levels.
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Post by Old Man Sat 17 Jul 2021, 20:54

Yeah well, you can’t defend for 70% of the match, no matter how hard our defence is, it takes a lot out of the players, and from what I have seen, the Lions have been superb in stopping mauls.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 18 Jul 2021, 11:16

Just watched the highlights and really don't know what to make of it. I will give Stormers the credit of being a good side then everything is looking pretty rosy.

Whichever front row you put out looks more than competent, LCD looks exceptional.

Beard and Hill look like they have played together for years, very intuitive, passing the ball between them like centres. Itoje must be wondering if he will get a game on that performance.

The back row looked so good ball in hand, possibly less so at the breakdown. It is difficult to tell from highlights but every time I looked at a play in the second half, Simmons was in support, just what is needed. Faletau has not looked that good so far, Conan or Simmons may just get the edge.

I am not a connoisseur of 9 play, but either looked better than Murray.

Smith, well to the manor born. Nothing seems to phase him, possible bench option. Place kicking is unbelievable.

Henshaw and Daly look like a really good combo, possible weakness in Daly's defence but not everyone is perfect (except AWJ and my wife).

Not go a clue for the back three, as they are al exceptional in attack I would perm the three best under the high ball, not just catching it but knowing when to kick and when to use that back line.

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Post by R!skysports Sun 18 Jul 2021, 14:31

Watched the games this morning and imo

great Games

LCD (my MOM)
Hamish W
Price (Close second MOM)
Smith
Harris
DVDM

Holding position
Hogg
LZJ
AWJ
Daly (missed quite a few straight up tackles)
Sutherland
Furlong

Losing ground

Zander


Not quite sure of the rest as did not focus so much on them (or they did not stand out as much)

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Post by BigGee Sun 18 Jul 2021, 14:47

R!skysports wrote:Watched the games this morning and imo

great Games

LCD (my MOM)
Hamish W
Price (Close second MOM)
Smith
Harris
DVDM

Holding position
Hogg
LZJ
AWJ
Daly (missed quite a few straight up tackles)
Sutherland
Furlong

Losing ground

Zander


Not quite sure of the rest as did not focus so much on them (or they did not stand out as much)

Largely agree with that except that i would say that was Zander's best game on tour so far. He has a bit to much ground to make up though, but if he got a test chsnce through injury, he would not let anyone down.

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