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Glasgow and Edinburgh - Unceasing Banter Thread 27

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Post by George Carlin Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:59 am

First topic message reminder :

For those Scottish and Scottish-rugby interested posters who just cannot seem to shut the feic up about it.

26,000 posts of abject nonsense and incorrect usage of the quote function (and counting).

We should be proud. king
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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:35 pm

This Zebre v Edinburgh game is awful!

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:40 pm

First time Edinburgh manage to string together a move without dropping it and they score.

Much better!

Kinghorn is betting a battering though, he has been laid out twice now!

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:40 pm

First time Edinburgh manage to string together a move without dropping it and they score.

Much better!

Kinghorn is betting a battering though, he has been laid out twice now!

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:58 pm

Well Edinburgh fall over the line and go home with 5 points but neither Scottish sides will think fondly of their trips to Parma this season!

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Post by Hazel Sapling Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:05 pm

Job done for Edinburgh with the 5 pointer. Did not see but it does feel like Edinburgh are in that chasing pack behind the Irish teams with Glasgow and whichever SA team improves the most when the internationals are back.

Watched the second half of Glasgow and Leinster on a poor quality stream. It felt like Leinster could get free metres every carry that had more than a pass beforehand (Tuipulotu in my mind was quite guilty of this). Leinster on the other hand were the opposite, firing in with 2 or 3 players to knock the carrier behind the gain line.

Agree with others on the positive. Thought we outdid them in the scrum so credit to Bhatti and Fagerson. McLean looks a natural and the players around him need to figure out how to get in support of him to get tries from his moves.

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Post by RDW Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:10 pm

Job done for Edinburgh by the look of things - it's never fun heading to Parma.

Sad to see how terrible the crowd was though - we almost had more at Super 6 games! I'm guessing covid played a large part in it though.

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:32 pm

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/mcbeth-makes-glasgow-switch

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Post by jimbopip Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:53 pm

A good signing and makes Kebble's shift to TH seem a lot more sensible.

Mind, The Luvvies are still above us in the league table so I'm very very NOT HAPPY.

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:22 pm

so much for keeping our players with the URC.

Might as well have the Scottish rugby Union set up a scouting office at the Craven week and Franchises.

Or perhaps at home affairs to check who else qualifies.

Getting a bit ridiculous now.

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:08 pm

Old Man wrote:so much for keeping our players with the URC.

Might as well have the Scottish rugby Union set up a scouting office at the Craven week and Franchises.

Or perhaps at home affairs to check who else qualifies.

Getting a bit ridiculous now.

Well he has already played for our U20s, so has made that commitment already and he is not called Van Der Mcbeth Run

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:26 pm

He also played for the SA U 20 world cup in the same year

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:28 pm

The point is for a country with only two teams in pro rugby the recruitment of SA players are obvious.

If i was a Scottish rugby player I would not be impressed.

I am getting the impression the Scottish rugby board it consciously scouting SA players who qualify automatically for Scotland through the parent and grand parent rule.

And they have no shame about it.

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:01 pm

No, and why should we have any shame?

Scotland is a small country with a large diaspora. Throughout our rugby history, going bsck 100 years, people with Scottish heritage have come back and played for us.

Scottish heritage is a big issue right around the world and the rules allow it, we are not doing anything wrong.

Yes, we have got a bit more organised about it in these professional days, but why would it be any other way?

Scottish born kids will get their international opportunities if they are good enough, not because they are born there and plenty do.

Telling kids that they have more right to international caps because they are Scottish born rather than they are the outstanding candidate is a recipe for mediocrity.

SA has a hugh pool of talent, we do not and never will, so we gave to maximise what we do have and that includes heritage and diaspora.

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:12 pm

Well, that settles that then.

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:18 pm

It is what it is.

SA won't be any weaker because Mcbeth and Richardson have chosen to follow their heritage. Scotland may or may not improve (nothing is guaranteed and we currently have a few decent back row and LHs)

Time will tell!

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:25 pm

Yet our domestic rugby suffers because of it. Anyway, I think I have made my position clear on this, we will keep bleeding talent and eventually select 75% of our Bok squad from overseas players.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:32 pm

Old Man wrote:The point is for a country with only two teams in pro rugby the recruitment of SA players are obvious.

If i was a Scottish rugby player I would not be impressed.

I am getting the impression the Scottish rugby board it consciously scouting SA players who qualify automatically for Scotland through the parent and grand parent rule.

And they have no shame about it.

No point in getting annoyed at Scotland for picking players who qualify for them. Be annoyed at SA for not tying players to SA. Same issue England have. Stop playing nice, play smart.

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:33 pm

Old Man wrote:Yet our domestic rugby suffers because of it. Anyway, I think I have made my position clear on this, we will keep bleeding talent and eventually select 75% of our Bok squad from overseas players.

I suspect that is more due to globalisation and professionalism than the desire to follows ones heritage (though I do accept that these 2 goals may not be mutually exclusive), but players will gravitate towards the money in any professional world and why should we blame them for that!


It is probably worth remembering that Scottish rugby has also lost some of its poster boys to better paying leagues as well, Hoggy, Russell, Johnny Gray to name but a few. I have never resented that, nor been angry at the SRU for not stumping up the cash to try and keep them, though they have by all accounts tried to be competitive. Sometimes players as good as that need to move on for more than just financial reasons and it is quite likely that Scotland as a team have benefitted from them moving and testing themselves elsewhere and likely becoming better players for it.

Scotland has exported people for centuries, some of whom may or may not have been rugby players.

We do understand how you feel.


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Post by RDW Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:56 pm

Worth noting that Macbeth's father approached the SRU when he was in his teens to make them aware of his Scottish heritage. He's been on the radar a long time and has even played under 20s for Scotland. Why should we have any shame about this?

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:59 pm

Does it not bother you that Scotland are adding more and more South African developed players to their squad?

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Post by Hazel Sapling Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:08 pm

Not sure McBeth makes Kebble's move to TH permanent. Behind Bhatti, we have Lambert and now McBeth. Looks a little light though we do have high hopes for Lambert.

If Kebble does become 3rd choice TH, that would have our top 3 (maybe 4 TH's including McCallum) at the same club. I assume 1 will have to find a new club and I don't fancy McCallum's chances of establishing himself somewhere. Hoping we retain him or at least find him a good landing spot like Sarries (may want a low priced TH with some pedigree).

SQ props in the Premiership this weekend
LH: Sutherland, Dell, Rodd, Hislop
TH: Rae, Owlett, Millar-Mills

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Post by BigGee Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:23 pm

Old Man wrote:Does it not bother you that Scotland are adding more and more South African developed players to their squad?

I think most of us probably recognise that it is a fact of life for us to survive as a top rugby nation.

We are probably as well producing more home grown good players than we have done in a long long timd as well.

The two things go hand in hand and we need to do both to prosper.

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Post by RDW Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:54 pm

It really doesn't bother me, and I don't think it's as big a deal as outsiders may think. If I take a stab at our 'best' 23 (noting some positions are up for debate!):

1 Sutherland
2 McInally
3 Fagerson
4 Gray
5 Cummings
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Fagerson

9 Price
10 Russell
11 VDM
12 Johnson
13 Harris
14 Graham
15 Hogg

Subs - Schoeman, Brown, Kebble, Skinner, Crosbie, Horne, Hastings, Bennett

That's 1 starting 'South African' and 2 on the bench. 11 of that starting 15 would be 'pureblood' too. So I don't think we have an identity crisis right now - far from it. What these SA imports are doing is bring in depth, which we are sorely lacking as a nation with by far the smallest playing pool out of or any Tier 1 nation (and a lot of the Tier 2s!), plus only 2 pro teams to pick from.

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Post by tigertattie Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:32 am

There is not a nation on Earth that can have a holier than thou approach to “foreign” imports.

We live in a modern age where there are far less barriers than there used to be. Moving around the globe is a common place as popping to the next town for your weekly shop as they have a supermarket.

The mere fact that someone could be a “jock bokke” proves this as it’s a double edge sword. You can’t decry someone for picking Scotland when they have a Scottish parent as we’d be entitled to decry the parent for leaving Scotland in the first place.

Also Glasgow are poo. Just saying
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Post by RDW Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:51 am

On the topic of national identity generally, I'm certainly far from the Craig Chalmers camp of wanting Scotland to be purebloods only.

I've lived outside of Scotland for over 5 years now and the longer you're away from the country of your birth the less it becomes part of who you are and how others see you. Living in Australia now, the Aussies, Kiwis, Chinese, Vietnamese, Lebanese, Greek, Iranians etc. that I work with don't see me as a Scotsman, just the person that I am albeit with a different accent to them. But when everyone sounds different, no-one sound different. We're all just a melting pot of cultures and personalities where it really makes no difference where you were born. To all of us this is now home. In terms of who I am and my identity here, the fact that I'm from Scotland is now pretty far down the list other than if I come across another Scottish person, or am having banter with the English. TBH it was the same in London especially given the industry I work in - the English were the minority! It was an incredibly diverse work and social circle that I lived in.

That doesn't mean I care any less about how we do as a sporting nation of course and wax lyrical about how Mossy is the finest player to have graced a rugby pitch!

Basically what I'm trying to say is that in the modern world and for a lot of people, personal identity is a complex topic and national identity is part of that. Immigration is a huge fact of life and you either allow for this happening in International sport or you don't. Yes you will get those who view playing for Scotland as a way of making more money/international recognition, but how do you realistically set the rules to only allow for those who really really care about playing for their adopted nation?

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Post by tigertattie Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:22 am

Back to the matter at hand.

Just why are Leinster so good? It can’t just be coaching, tactics, the Dublin air.

Are the Irish gaming the system? Do they scour the Emerald Isle and whack all the good youngsters into the Leinster academy and use the other 3 provinces as feeders? You know, just like the SRU did with Glasgow to hand them their title.
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Post by BigGee Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:39 am

RDW wrote:On the topic of national identity generally, I'm certainly far from the Craig Chalmers camp of wanting Scotland to be purebloods only.



Chalmers does have the unfortunate ability to often open mouth without engaging brain.


He does seem to be the first one the press go to every time they are looking for an opinionated rent a quote and he often ends up making himself look pretty daft!

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Post by Old Man Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:03 am

tigertattie wrote:Back to the matter at hand.

Just why are Leinster so good? It can’t just be coaching, tactics, the Dublin air.

Are the Irish gaming the system? Do they scour the Emerald Isle and whack all the good youngsters into the Leinster academy and use the other 3 provinces as feeders? You know, just like the SRU did with Glasgow to hand them their title.

It would be interesting to compare the Canterbury Crusaders system and the Leinster system.

They are both dominating their respective leagues consistently.

I think you are correct, it cannot be just coaching tactics.

There has to be things stacking the odds towards them. I would love to know how.

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Post by BigGee Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:32 am

Old Man wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Back to the matter at hand.

Just why are Leinster so good? It can’t just be coaching, tactics, the Dublin air.

Are the Irish gaming the system? Do they scour the Emerald Isle and whack all the good youngsters into the Leinster academy and use the other 3 provinces as feeders? You know, just like the SRU did with Glasgow to hand them their title.

It would be interesting to compare the Canterbury Crusaders system and the Leinster system.

They are both dominating their respective leagues consistently.

I think you are correct, it cannot be just coaching tactics.

There has to be things stacking the odds towards them. I would love to know how.


They have excellent coaching that is for sure but they also have a private school system around Dublin that is very professional and keeps churning out oven ready young players for them.

They also have a good fan base, so good income from that and are well supported by the IRU and Irish Government, who make it worth their while for the players to stay around and not get lured off by the promise of big bucks elsewhere.

That combination of being managed well and not overplayed, being paid well and having the chance to play for trophies year in year out, make it an attractive place to stay and their income allows them to target specific overseas players who can really add some value.


It is near the perfect model and it is probably not surprising that it is successful!

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Post by EST Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:27 am

BigGee wrote:
Old Man wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Back to the matter at hand.

Just why are Leinster so good? It can’t just be coaching, tactics, the Dublin air.

Are the Irish gaming the system? Do they scour the Emerald Isle and whack all the good youngsters into the Leinster academy and use the other 3 provinces as feeders? You know, just like the SRU did with Glasgow to hand them their title.

It would be interesting to compare the Canterbury Crusaders system and the Leinster system.

They are both dominating their respective leagues consistently.

I think you are correct, it cannot be just coaching tactics.

There has to be things stacking the odds towards them. I would love to know how.


They have excellent coaching that is for sure but they also have a private school system around Dublin that is very professional and keeps churning out oven ready young players for them.

They also have a good fan base, so good income from that and are well supported by the IRU and Irish Government, who make it worth their while for the players to stay around and not get lured off by the promise of big bucks elsewhere.

That combination of being managed well and not overplayed, being paid well and having the chance to play for trophies year in year out, make it an attractive place to stay and their income allows them to target specific overseas players who can really add some value.


It is near the perfect model and it is probably not surprising that it is successful!

BigGee beat me to the punch, but they have the Leinster Schools Cup which provides a very competitive youth competition in a concentrated geographic area in way that doesn't seem to exist in Edinburgh or Glasgow. Obviously Scotland has it's own clutch of private schools, which to many extents are the production houses of the professional game, but I don't know why this system hasn't formulated into providing a comparable competition to the LSC.

I also always think that the geography of Ireland and the existence of the provinces as entities has helped the IRFU, it's meant that they haven't had to manufacture teams and that those inter-province rivalries are much more natural. It's obvious where the four teams of Ireland are going to be located, as we have discussed many times on here it's not so obvious how you can sub-divide Scotland.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:31 pm

EST wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Old Man wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Back to the matter at hand.

Just why are Leinster so good? It can’t just be coaching, tactics, the Dublin air.

Are the Irish gaming the system? Do they scour the Emerald Isle and whack all the good youngsters into the Leinster academy and use the other 3 provinces as feeders? You know, just like the SRU did with Glasgow to hand them their title.

It would be interesting to compare the Canterbury Crusaders system and the Leinster system.

They are both dominating their respective leagues consistently.

I think you are correct, it cannot be just coaching tactics.

There has to be things stacking the odds towards them. I would love to know how.


They have excellent coaching that is for sure but they also have a private school system around Dublin that is very professional and keeps churning out oven ready young players for them.

They also have a good fan base, so good income from that and are well supported by the IRU and Irish Government, who make it worth their while for the players to stay around and not get lured off by the promise of big bucks elsewhere.

That combination of being managed well and not overplayed, being paid well and having the chance to play for trophies year in year out, make it an attractive place to stay and their income allows them to target specific overseas players who can really add some value.


It is near the perfect model and it is probably not surprising that it is successful!

BigGee beat me to the punch, but they have the Leinster Schools Cup which provides a very competitive youth competition in a concentrated geographic area in way that doesn't seem to exist in Edinburgh or Glasgow.  Obviously Scotland has it's own clutch of private schools, which to many extents are the production houses of the professional game, but I don't know why this system hasn't formulated into providing a comparable competition to the LSC.

I also always think that the geography of Ireland and the existence of the provinces as entities has helped the IRFU, it's meant that they haven't had to manufacture teams and that those inter-province rivalries are much more natural.  It's obvious where the four teams of Ireland are going to be located, as we have discussed man⁶⅘y times on here it's not so obvious how you can sub-divide Scotland.    
It was obvious pre pro days, when we had the district sides of Edinburgh, Glasgow, the Borders, the North and Midlands, and the Anglo Scots.
We just need the constituent parts to grow up, stop the stupid, self-destructive in-fighting, and build on the regions.
Until 'we' as a nation start acting as a greater whole, we will never truly maximise the potential of the regions that contribute.
There will always be regional rivalries. At secondary school, my hometown would play against Border teams, and all that seemed to matter to them was getting one over on their nearest town rival. Even when we beat them.
That mentality needs to be left behind, or we'll never make progress.
Edinburgh and Glasgow have their set ups. The semi pro Super6 set up has started, but needs to expand.
We need a North and South regional set up, with the Super 6 expanded to a super 12, 3 feeder clubs for each district, and then there would be a structure supported by semi-pro clubs and the regional academies that would rival Leinster and Crusaders.
IMHO, we just need to grow up, grow a set and get on with it, without the historical drivell, political nonsense or class snobbery.
But that is probably asking too much in our society guided by facebook and ticktock.

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Post by TJ Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:21 pm

IMO Leinster ( as well as having a bit of a financial advantage but not huge) have just been consistently ahead of the game the whole of the pro whatever / celtic league

they were the first to understand you did not need a first team and subs - you need 35 players who can seamlessly slip in and out of the team

they have been prepared to pay for good coaching and have been more professional than anyone else

they have learned how to look after their players well and not flog them - a corollary of point one

Clarity of purpose

In Scotland we keep making mistakes - inadequate coaches, poor training setups, not being ruthless enough

Leinster have consistently set the standards and anytime anyone looks like catching up they just have moved on again.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:21 pm

You've hit the nail firmly on the head there TJ.
We need to change what isn't working, evolve, try different methods and move on.
It's the only way that we will progress.

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Post by tigertattie Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:29 pm

I know hee haw about the Irish private school system but surely to piece Scotland has more private schools than Dublin?

Gordonstoun, fettes, loretto, stew Mel, watsons….

Actually I just googled it (take with a pinch of salt) and apparently there are 102 Scottish private schools to irelands 51.

Sure not all our private schools will be rugby factories but neither will Ireland’s.
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Post by Anglobraveheart Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:05 pm

But it's more than that Tiger, I went to a non fee paying school, and we took great delight in each year winning against the 'well to do' schools from Edinburgh, but we also lost (not often) to 1 or 2, in the same way that we lost to 1 or 2 borders and maybe 1 East Lothian school. Our town produced international players at adult level, schoolboy level and had regular representation at County level.
The talent is there regardless of school status, the system just needs to be managed properly to harness that talent correctly.
Regardless of whether it is privately educated or not.
It needs the same enthusiasm at club level to push mini and junior players that the PE teacher at my old school achieved on his own.
If the investment goes in and a robust structure is in place, then the success will follow. Change and evolve, then repeat.

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Post by tigertattie Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:12 am

Anglobraveheart wrote:But it's more than that Tiger, I went to a non fee paying school, and we took great delight in each year winning against the 'well to do' schools from Edinburgh, but we also lost (not often) to 1 or 2, in the same way that we lost to 1 or 2 borders and maybe 1 East Lothian school. Our town produced international players at adult level, schoolboy level and had regular representation at County level.
The talent is there regardless of school status, the system just needs to be managed properly to harness that talent correctly.
Regardless of whether it is privately educated or not.
It needs the same enthusiasm at club level to push mini and junior players that the PE teacher at my old school achieved on his own.
If the investment goes in and a robust structure is in place, then the success will follow. Change and evolve, then repeat.

Ahhhh. You lost to north Berwick?

There’s no shame to that to be fair.

So what we are saying is it’s not the schools, it’s the minis to pro team set up which currently the SRU are doing a pants job of running?

How do we fix it? Club power? Write a strongly worded letter of complaint to Nicola Sturgeon? Install jimbo as youth development officer?
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Post by RDW Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:26 am

There's two areas which Ireland significantly trump us when it comes to our national rugby infrastructures:

1 - money
2 - players

Depending on where you get your stats form Ireland has roughly triple the number of rugby players than we do (adults all the way down to kids). I know for a fact that the SRU's numbers are grossly enflated too - i.e. a lot of youth players are registered to their school and club, and the SRU counts both.

the private school rugby network is nowhere near the level of the Irish set-up, particularly Leinster, in terms of player depth and quality. Someone mentioned there's 102 private schools in Scotland but only 6 or 7 of them are real rugby powerhouses - Stew Mel, Merchiston, Watsons, Strathallan etc. The same 4 schools have won the schools cup since 2012.

And the amaetur side of rugby in Scotland has been dying a death for a long time now. When I started in adult rugby most clubs could field 2 or 3 teams. Now a lot of clubs struggle to put a single team out.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:35 am

No, not North Berwick, we always pasted them.
PL were the bogey team.
The point I'm making is that the same old bleating keeps going on about "the private schools" and not enough chances for the rest.
It's lots of things that need to change. The structure needs to reflect regions, with academies feeding into the semi pro and pro clubs.
The schools and junior clubs need to feed into the academies (regardless of whether they are private or not). When you step through a door of a rugby club, your job, if you have one, type of school, race, or background should not be a consideration of you being accepted at the club. All must be given an equal chance to play and develop.
But the basics of setting up district teams should not fall down, because it is in one town instead of another.
Border Reivers failed primarily because the home ground was at Gala, and other border town fans wouldn't go and support.
I'm pretty sure that sort of small minded issue hasn't held Leinster back? They have moved on, looked at the bigger picture, and made progress.
The districts need to work collaboratively within themselves instead of taking their ball home if their own town isn't the home venue.
It's not down to the sru, it's down to a number of issues noted earlier, that are not rocket science to resolve, but the issues are hampered by a reluctance to change and evolve and work to a common goal.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:28 pm

RDW wrote:the private school rugby network is nowhere near the level of the Irish set-up, particularly Leinster, in terms of player depth and quality. Someone mentioned there's 102 private schools in Scotland but only 6 or 7 of them are real rugby powerhouses - Stew Mel, Merchiston, Watsons, Strathallan etc. The same 4 schools have won the schools cup since 2012.

Interestingly what seems to have changed since my day is that these schools are far more aggressive about going out and recruiting the best talent on extremely generous 6th Form scholarships. Looking at the recent internationals to have come out of Merchiston for example, a lot of them only attended for 6th form because they were brought in on rugby scholarships. Which explains why it is so hard for anyone except the top few schools engaging in this type of practice to compete. It also entirely undermines what Anglo is saying:

All must be given an equal chance to play and develop.

If the best young players are being tapped up by the few schools that can give them the best development resources, then we're miles from having an equal opportunity for all to develop to the same standard


Last edited by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Anglobraveheart Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:00 pm

If that is the case Llama, then there needs to be more investment in club rugby.
My sons play in the NW of England, and commence county Cup comps from u13.
Our club has rugby for every age group from u6 to u18, with a network of IRO 50 parent coaches across all age groups. (All unpaid volunteers).
Whilst 2 players in my sons U17 team have been signed for the local RL Super league academy, and 2 other players did the same 5 years ago, some of the rest remain with the senior teams if they do not move away to Uni.
We just keep plugging away to grow a player base.
My youngest son is in the u13s, and will hopefully gain an opportunity through the Sale academy next season.
Partnerships between clubs and a pro network are a good way forwards. It takes time to bear fruit.
Our mini and junior set up has been running for 20 years. Progressing from a dozen mixed age kids to representation across all age groups with currently about 300 young players.
It just needs investment of time and a decent structure.
BTW, one of the lads that has signed for the Super league academy, was also in the sale academy. Our club has provided half a dozen Sale academy players over the last few years.

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Post by tigertattie Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:59 pm

A lot has to do with a handful clubs and schools trying to keep the top of the cream to themselves and folk decry the SRU for allowing this to continue but how do you stop it?

Crikey I played for my local club and I can hand on heart say I was better than some of the players that played in the 1st XV over me. Some of these boys were drinking buddies of coaches or other players, some players were sons of coaches. That’s life, some people get breaks that others don’t.
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Post by BigGee Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:A lot has to do with a handful clubs and schools trying to keep the top of the cream to themselves and folk decry the SRU for allowing this to continue but how do you stop it?

Crikey I played for my local club and I can hand on heart say I was better than some of the players that played in the 1st XV over me. Some of these boys were drinking buddies of coaches or other players, some players were sons of coaches. That’s life, some people get breaks that others don’t.

That is probably true of every rugby club, in every country in history.

The answer is of course to change clubs, but some people just want a game of rugby on Saturday afternoon with their mates. You can't really blame them for that.

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Post by BigGee Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:51 pm

Some bad news for historians of the game and people of my age.

The legend that was Sandy Carmichael has unfortunately passed on. I don't believe he has been in good health for many years now, but he is an always will be one of the all time great Scottish rugby players. read the history of the 1971 and 1974 Lions tours to find out what he was really made of.

A great loss to Scottish and world rugby and sincere condolences to his family.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:36 am

Amen Big Gee. A sad loss to Scottish rugby and the history of our great game. RIP Sandy.

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Post by BigGee Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:45 am

https://www.theoffsideline.com/scottish-rugby-loses-an-all-time-great-with-death-of-sandy-carmichael/

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Post by RDW Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:01 am

Definitely an all time great of Scottish rugby. What amazes me is how lightly built he was as a prop - you'll find modern scrumhalfs bigger than him! How times have changed - I bet he was strong as hell though.

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Post by George Carlin Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:07 pm

Carmichael was a giant and hard as nails. Great story from the Lions tour when they were playing a Canterbury side who had clearly been told to beat up the tourists. Sandy got smashed in the face and was immediately told to go off by the physio.

Carmichael looked at the guy who hit him, said ‘nah’ and played on to the end with 5 facial fractures.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:13 am

Are there a few Edinburgh boys playing in the game tonight v us at Melrose?

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:22 am

https://www.theoffsideline.com/southern-knights-bolstered-by-edinburgh-reinforcements-for-doddie-weir-challenge-match/

The Southern Knights side is

Gunn - Anderson - Gamble (Grahamslaw - McBurney - McLaren)
Phillips - Runciman (Campbell)
Borthwick - Muncaster - Boyle (Knott/Ferrie)

Pyrgos - Savala (Jones/Baggott - Anderson/Scott)
Dean - Wara (Godsmark/Currie)
Owsley - Blain - Sim

Edinburgh contracted players - Gamble, Grahamslaw, McBurney, Phillips, Muncaster, Boyle, Pyrgos, Savala, Scott, Dean, Currie, Owsley and Blain

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:34 am

To give a bit more context GF, most of the players are around the fringes of the squad.

Some good young players: Muncaster and Boyle are both knocking on the door to get chances at club level whilst Savala, Currie and Blain trained with Scotland the other week as young hopefuls. Grahamslaw and Gamble are both talented with issues around consistency and injuries respectively.

Some of the players not contracted such as Gunn, McLaren and Baggott are former academy and/or senior squad players. The Offside Line's team of the Super Six season contains McLaren, Runciman, Borthwick and Godsmark whilst Gunn, Gamble, Ferrie, Scott and Baggott all got mentions. Wouldn't be surprised if some of those players go well that they get a shot at the Edinburgh squad at some point.

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