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Scotland v Australia Sunday 7th November 2021

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The Oracle
lostinwales
doctor_grey
Heaf
No 7&1/2
sensisball
demosthenes
Highland Shaun
tigertattie
Mad for Chelsea
Old Man
bsando
George Carlin
EST
Oakdene
Anglobraveheart
TheMildlyFranticLlama
Tramptastic
Hazel Sapling
jimbopip
funnyExiledScot
RDW
BigGee
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Scotland v Australia Sunday 7th November 2021 - Page 2 Empty Scotland v Australia Sunday 7th November 2021

Post by BigGee Mon 01 Nov 2021, 9:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Australia
Sunday 7th November 2021
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

KO 14.15
Love on Amazon Prime


Well the warm up with Tonga is done and dusted and now the big boys are coming to town. Australia don't quite have the aura of NZ or SA but undoubtedly undergoing a bit of a renaissance under their new coaching team, which, just to add some spice to the occasion, consists largely of ex Glasgow and Scotland coaches Dave Rennie, Matt Taylor and Petrus du Plessis . DR was a bit of a mixed bag at Glasgow and left with maybe the feeling that he could and should have achieved a bit more but to say he is anything other than a rugby coach at the very top of the game would not do him justice. He will know the Scottish players very well and just what they can bring to the party.

Unfortunately for him, they have had to leave 3 of their best players behind, who have choosen club over country but he will add some top European based Auusie's to his squad such as Skelton and Rory Arnold, it is hard to see how they won't improve the team.

Scotland will also get their absent players back and we can expect to see our strongest team out for this fixture. A few of the kids put their hands up in the Tonga game but this is more likely to be a game for the older hands with more changes likely to come in the subsequent games. I would imagaine a team something along these lines:


1. Sutherland - if fit, he pulled out of last weeks game
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gilchrist
5. Skinner
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM - looked back in his best form this weekend
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Steyn
15. Hogg


Subs

Bhatti
McInally
Keeble
Hodgson - probably shaded Sykes on last weeks game
Richardson - Toonie curveball!
Dobie
Hastings
Mclean

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Post by tigertattie Fri 05 Nov 2021, 1:15 pm

wowsers

For toonie that is about as stable a team as he could put out.

Other than inclusions due to no option with injury and possibly Bayliss, that pretty much a team that anyone else would have put out.

Real shame for Rufus but when you are playing Oz, you can see why tried and tested players have been brought in
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Post by jimbopip Fri 05 Nov 2021, 1:18 pm

Possibly the most predictable selection ever to come out of the Tombola.
Gilchrist and Skinner will be crucial for us.
Ashman and Bayliss could find themselves being thrown in at the deep deep deep end. Let's hope they can swim.

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Post by demosthenes Fri 05 Nov 2021, 1:46 pm

I would have preferred to see Dobie on the bench. He played well when coming on last week, and George Horne has appeared below his best since his injury.

I suspect that the majority of the players who starred against Tonga will get another chance against Japan, which could be a further step up, as well as a different proposition.

I wonder whether Richardson will bench against SA?

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Fri 05 Nov 2021, 1:56 pm

Toonie's curveball this week is apparently the absence of curveball (meta-curveballing?). That might be the most predictable starting XV he's ever put out. The only real argument is probably over the second wing spot, and Graham's form certainly is good enough.

Feel a bit for McLean, but given the other wing options I don't think he can feel too hard done by, and Steyn covering 13 too is obviously a plus point for him. McLean's time will come.

Possibly the only real surprise is Ashman on the bench ahead of McInally, maybe Bayliss too (I thought Haining would be in there somewhere), but that's a pretty decent 23 overall. Looking forward to it.

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 05 Nov 2021, 1:56 pm

demosthenes wrote:I would have preferred to see Dobie on the bench.  He played well when coming on last week, and George Horne has appeared below his best since his injury.

I suspect that the majority of the players who starred against Tonga will get another chance against Japan, which could be a further step up, as well as a different proposition.

I wonder whether Richardson will bench against SA?

It'll be an interesting one with the uncapped players, its quite alright to call up players to the squad, see how they perform in training and then drop them again so who knows, Richardson might be deemed surplus to requirements?

Would be incredibly rough to give him his first cap against South Africa like. Would have been ideal to cap him against Tonga but then Mish needed minutes so no cap for Richardson - which might even be indicative of him not being ready for a full cap yet

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Post by George Carlin Fri 05 Nov 2021, 2:18 pm

Looking at some of the other home nations, I am pleased that there are actually some youngfellers scheduled to play in this game.

Hope Skinner fronts up because we’re going to need him.

We should be very competitive, let’s say.
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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri 05 Nov 2021, 2:19 pm

Wallabies team to play Scotland at BT Murrayfield, Scotland on Sunday 7 November, 2:15pm GMT/1:15am AEDT
1. James Slipper (111 Tests)
2. Folau Fainga’a (22 Tests)
3. Allan Alaalatoa (51 Tests)

4. Rory Arnold (26 Tests)
5. Izack Rodda (31 Tests)

6. Rob Leota (3 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (c) (116 Tests)
8. Rob Valetini (15 Tests)

9. Nic White (44 Tests)
10. James O’Connor (58 Tests)

11. Jordan Petaia (15 Tests)
12. Hunter Paisami (12 Tests)
13. Len Ikitau (10 Tests)
14. Tom Wright (7 Tests)

15. Andrew Kellaway (10 Tests)

Replacements

16. Connal McInerney (1 Test)
17. Angus Bell (13 Tests)
18. Taniela Tupou (36 Tests)
19. Will Skelton (18 Tests)
20. Pete Samu (16 Tests)
21. Tate McDermott (12 Tests)
22. Kurtley Beale (92 Tests)
23. Izaia Perese*

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 05 Nov 2021, 2:21 pm

If skinner pulls so form out of the bag then ive no worries for the tight 5. I think Schoeman will be excellent, Turner and Fagerson can hold their own and our backrow isnt exactly going to be outmuscled by the ozzie backrow

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri 05 Nov 2021, 2:28 pm

Huge impact off the bench for the Aussies in Tupou, Skelton, Samu and Beale.

Very different 2nd rows coming on in Skelton and Hodgson.

I actually fancy our pack to do well against Australia's based on nothing but gut feel. The Australian backline looks like it could be quite small and hoping Johnson and VDM can give us front foot ball. Should be targeting to get the ball in VDM's hands 10 times.

Ashman is a big call over McInally. Ashman is not getting much game time at Sale over Langdon and he is going in fairly cold. Hopefully with Kebble, Bayliss and G Horne, they can come on and provide a bit of pace and carrying into the game.

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 05 Nov 2021, 2:29 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Wallabies team to play Scotland at BT Murrayfield, Scotland on Sunday 7 November, 2:15pm GMT/1:15am AEDT
1. James Slipper (111 Tests)
2. Folau Fainga’a (22 Tests)
3. Allan Alaalatoa (51 Tests)

4. Rory Arnold (26 Tests)
5. Izack Rodda (31 Tests)

6. Rob Leota (3 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (c) (116 Tests)
8. Rob Valetini (15 Tests)

9. Nic White (44 Tests)
10. James O’Connor (58 Tests)

11. Jordan Petaia (15 Tests)
12. Hunter Paisami (12 Tests)
13. Len Ikitau (10 Tests)
14. Tom Wright (7 Tests)

15. Andrew Kellaway (10 Tests)

Replacements

16. Connal McInerney (1 Test)
17. Angus Bell (13 Tests)
18. Taniela Tupou (36 Tests)
19. Will Skelton (18 Tests)
20. Pete Samu (16 Tests)
21. Tate McDermott (12 Tests)
22. Kurtley Beale (92 Tests)
23. Izaia Perese*

Theres some vulnerability there in the back 3, Kellaway is an excellent winger but to my mind hes never started an international game at fullback? Expect Russell and Hogg to be hammering the ball behind him all day long. That ozzie bench though is ferocious, imagine hitting the 55 minute mark, you're knackered, just holding on and then on comes Tupou, Skelton and Samu to wreck the defensive line with McDermott and Beale attacking the resultant space Shocked

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Nov 2021, 3:58 pm

Yes you probably feel we don't want to be chasing the game as they definitely look stronger on the bench, DR maybe easing them into the tour a little bit, a few of the Aussies, like Arnold and Skelton have not played test rugby for some time.

A fascinating match up in an intriguing contest.

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 05 Nov 2021, 4:07 pm

its stuff like the ruck speed they'll need to adjust to, if rucks at international are even 0.5 seconds faster per ruck compared to club then it'll up the pace and intensity significantly so you might so Skelton/Arnold fall off a wee bit if thats a case.

If its a slow game (unlikely) it might actually be a bit easier on them.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 05 Nov 2021, 6:54 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Huge impact off the bench for the Aussies in Tupou, Skelton, Samu and Beale.

Very different 2nd rows coming on in Skelton and Hodgson.

I actually fancy our pack to do well against Australia's based on nothing but gut feel. The Australian backline looks like it could be quite small and hoping Johnson and VDM can give us front foot ball. Should be targeting to get the ball in VDM's hands 10 times.

Ashman is a big call over McInally. Ashman is not getting much game time at Sale over Langdon and he is going in fairly cold. Hopefully with Kebble, Bayliss and G Horne, they can come on and provide a bit of pace and carrying into the game.

No no no

Needs to be 100 times.

The Oz backline does look little. Maybe Toonie will take the lions tactic of kicking the ball for Duhan to chase and complete for into this game?

Still going to be a really tough test but right now I’m going 52/48 for a Scotland win
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Post by RDW Fri 05 Nov 2021, 8:03 pm

That is a frightening Wallabies bench. Bell, Topou, Skelton and Samu probably weigh the same as our entire pack. The starting front row has great scrummagers.

That backline could be vulnerable - all talented players but other than the halfbacks the rest have never played together in those combos.

Look out for Petaia on the wing - he's an outrageous talent but hasn't really taken his game to the next level for the Wallabies, and is prone to the odd error. He's incredible in the air however do there's a bit of a mismatch with Darcy.

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Post by Highland Shaun Fri 05 Nov 2021, 10:53 pm

I'm still 50/50 on this lol and here is my logic (if it can be called that ahahaha) as to why:
-: We have a great record v Australia recently but probably not against a team in form.
:- Australia are unbeaten so logistics say we should halt their run

I also disagree with the poster who said, give the ball to King Duhan, I say give it to Maestro Russell and let him weave his magic, though not by getting sent off like in Paris.

I think I'm fitting in well here haha, before I became a member of this forum, i would never post something like that.

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Post by RDW Sat 06 Nov 2021, 12:28 am

Highland Shaun wrote:I'm still 50/50 on this lol and here is my logic (if it can be called that ahahaha) as to why:
-: We have a great record v Australia recently but probably not against a team in form.
:- Australia are unbeaten so logistics say we should halt their run

I also disagree with the poster who said, give the ball to King Duhan, I say give it to Maestro Russell and let him weave his magic, though not by getting sent off like in Paris.

I think I'm fitting in well here haha, before I became a member of this forum, i would never post something like that.

There'll certainly be a direct correlation between how much ball Finn and VDM gets and whether we'll win or not!

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Post by George Carlin Sat 06 Nov 2021, 6:59 am

Agree with all of the above.

Don't get me wrong - the bottom line is that a team ranked 3rd in the world should expect to beat a team ranked 7th in the world. In no world are we actually favourites and we need to stop doing the Scottish thing and actually remember that. We spanked them last time in large part because they were down to 14 men for the whole of the second half.

Let's have a bit more humility. We'll be happier that way!

PS - We should still finish within a score, 2 maximum.
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Post by Old Man Sat 06 Nov 2021, 7:14 am

George Carlin wrote:Agree with all of the above.

Don't get me wrong - the bottom line is that a team ranked 3rd in the world should expect to beat a team ranked 7th in the world. In no world are we actually favourites and we need to stop doing the Scottish thing and actually remember that. We spanked them last time in large part because they were down to 14 men for the whole of the second half.

Let's have a bit more humility. We'll be happier that way!

PS - We should still finish within a score, 2 maximum.

Rankings mean nothing. When SA played OZ in Australia they were ranked first and Australia seventh. Most thought SA would walk over Oz. I saidat the time our record in Australia is poor, have been for a long time. Regardless of rankings Australia beats us 3/4 in Oz and we beat OZ 3/4 in SA.

Scotland has a good record over OZ in the last couple of years and in my view are stronger now than they have been for some time.

This match is hard to predict. Remember OZ had a good run at home, this is an away match.

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Post by sensisball Sat 06 Nov 2021, 7:40 am

It will be fascinating to see whether the loss of key players in the backs is compensated by Arnold and Skelton in the forwards. Someone wondered if they would be up to international level having been out of the team for a couple of seasons.

If you saw the Toulouse, Castres game recently then I doubt you would have much concern for Arnold. The intensity and pace of that match, particularly in the first half was up there with a test match. The Arnold boys featured prominently on both sides of the ball.

Skelton is a slightly different story. La Rochelle are stuttering this year with the departure of Jonno Gibbs and a few key members of the coaching staff.Prominent amongst the departures was the strength and conditioning coach who went to Clermont with Gibbs. Consequently,  Skelton is carrying significantly more weight than last season when he was amongst the top locks in France. He has also recently returned from a 5 week ban.

Rennie has been wise to start him from the bench as he can make his biggest impact in the last 30 when defenders are tiring.

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Post by Old Man Sat 06 Nov 2021, 7:45 am

If anyone is intereste here is an article by a rugby coach/analyst on what Scotland will bring vs Australia

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Post by bsando Sat 06 Nov 2021, 8:45 am

Kellaway is the danger man for Wallabies, he’s been unstoppable in the rugby championship. I’ll be very surprised if he doesn’t bag a try or two.

Considering how disjointed and poorly coached the wallabies were under Cheika, they’ve come a long way. This is their first tour of the NH as a rejuvenated outfit.

Will the Tandy defensive system remain the best in the NH? What new tricks will Scotland have in attack with the addition of AB Zondaugh? Will Scotland’s Lions impress?

Scotland’s physicality in defence in the form of Harris, Watson and Ritchie combined with the in form kicking games of Hogg and Russell really helps dictate their attack.

Scotland should have the advantage in a kicking battle. By winning that they can force the Wallabies into taking risks in their own half. This should help create turnover ball for Scotland and give Scotland the chance to poach lineouts.

God knows how the scrum and driving maul will do but we know now that Scotland like to add DVDM, Harris etc to an attacking driving maul. I hope they continue to do this. Even if it doesn’t work it forces the opposition to commit more men and improves the likelihood of winning a penalty.

On the flip side, the wallabies have a very effective offloading game that is just the sort of thing that could unlock Scotland’s defence. It’s going to be a fascinating contrast of tactics.


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Post by RDW Sat 06 Nov 2021, 9:25 pm

I'm actually most worried about the scrum - all 4 of the Wallaby props are better scrummagers than ours IMO and we have a lightweight back 5 behind them, plus small hookers. The Wallaby scrum has done very well against the ABs and SA.

Huge test for Schoeman's abilities!

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Post by tigertattie Sat 06 Nov 2021, 9:28 pm

From what I’ve seen of the SH this season is that they are all brutally physical around the park.

Scrums are strong. Rucks cleared well. Tackles knocking players back.

I don’t think Scotland will want to front up like that and our plan will be kicking and trying to run at space as much as possible
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Post by RDW Sun 07 Nov 2021, 7:22 am

Well it's game day of a game that I've been looking forward to a long time - alas it's on at 1am on a schoolnight!

This one is hitting me hard as my dad and brother are going together for their first trip to Murrayfield since pre-Covid and I'm obviously not there. We'll soon be coming up to 2 years since seeing any family and friends which is pretty tough.

Hopefully a good Scotland win makes up for the home sickness! Braveheart

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 12:28 pm

Hugs for you flounder.

But shame on you for not taking a days holiday tomorrow

Actually in hindsight it’s a bloody silly time have a game of rugger. Scotland should have played Oz at 8pm last night and France could have player Argentina this afternoon
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Post by bsando Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:11 pm

Glad you're staying up for it RDW, great to see fans back in Murrayfield. It really wasn't the same without them.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:32 pm

Well. This is a bit frantic
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Post by BigGee Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:33 pm

Early debut for Ewan Ashman as Turner goes off

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:36 pm

Well. The ref team are a bit all at sea today
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Post by bsando Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:36 pm

Madness!

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Post by bsando Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:37 pm

God I love Hamish Watson

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:37 pm

Hamish saves the day
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:39 pm

Didn't realise its Poites last match today.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:41 pm

Surely Oz need a warning from Roman?
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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:42 pm

Hamish watson. Have my babies
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Post by BigGee Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:42 pm

What a fantastic line out move!

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Post by Old Man Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:44 pm

looked ligit

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Post by Old Man Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:45 pm

Well executed

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Post by BigGee Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:46 pm

Despite the TMO best efforts 7-0 Scotland!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:46 pm

Very close decision. Not sure it was right though.

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Post by jimbopip Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:47 pm

What a game. Which pack will be blowing first?

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Post by Old Man Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:47 pm

Bit lucky not to be called for a deliberate knock

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Post by BigGee Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:49 pm

Zander has brought his A game today

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Post by tigertattie Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:55 pm

Surely one of the Aussies needs a break for 10 mins after their next penalty?
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Post by Heaf Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Very close decision. Not sure it was right though.

Not sure either - OK with the ball carrier being at the front when they made contact so no obstruction however I thought 3 or more players pre-binding before contact was now illegal? I'd have to see a replay but it looked like they may have formed up in a 3 before making contact?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 07 Nov 2021, 2:58 pm

Heaf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Very close decision. Not sure it was right though.

Not sure either - OK with the ball carrier being at the front when they made contact so no obstruction however I thought 3 or more players pre-binding before contact was now illegal?  I'd have to see a replay but it looked like they may have formed up in a 3 before making contact?

Ah I think it was in Watsons hands before contact. Close!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 07 Nov 2021, 3:00 pm

First angle looks a red. Next looks about OK.

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Post by Old Man Sun 07 Nov 2021, 3:01 pm

That was a crawl

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Post by bsando Sun 07 Nov 2021, 3:02 pm

That is so harsh

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Post by bsando Sun 07 Nov 2021, 3:02 pm

That is so harsh

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