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England Autumn Internationals - MARK II

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Nov 2021, 3:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

England squad for autumn Tests:

Forwards: Jamie Blamire (Newcastle), Callum Chick (Newcastle), Jamie George (Saracens), Tom Curry (Sale), Trevor Davison (Newcastle), Nic Dolly (Leicester), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Ellis Genge (Leicester), Jonny Hill (Exeter), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath)

Backs: Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), George Furbank (Northampton), Max Malins (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), Raffi Quirke (Sale), Adam Radwan (Newcastle), Harry Randall (Bristol), Henry Slade (Exeter), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Joe Marchant (Quins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)

In Positions:
1.Marler, Genge
2.George, Blamire, Dolly
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Davison
4.Itoje, Hill
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, Martin
7.Underhill, Ludlam
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Quirke
10.Smith

11.May, Radwan
12.Farrell, Atkinson
13.Tuilagi, Slade
14.Freeman, Marchant
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank
-------------------------------------------------
England v Tonga - 6th November
England v Australia - 13th November
England v South Africa - 20th November

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm

SA got a bit nasty in the last few mins eh.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm

Real scumbag stuff that from Steyn.

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm

Duty281 wrote:What a win for England. Their best since beating NZ in 2019. clap clap

Sad to see South Africa resorting to type as the game got away from them, but no surprise.

WTF are you ralking about. You won, be gracious.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm

Some fight to win that despite being absolutely hammered by their forwards in the second half.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:08 pm

Boks should have won - but the ability for England to score tries and hold on did it for them

Wow

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Post by alfie Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:08 pm

Skin of their teeth ... But they've held on despite conceding about twenty penalties. Eddie will be a bit happy with that result!

Smith stands up rather well under pressure, eh ?

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:09 pm

king_carlos wrote:Some fight to win that despite being absolutely hammered by their forwards in the second half.

England deserved to win, they played all the rugby in the first half, outscored us by three tries to one. We threw away our opportunities by being illdisciplined when we had england on the ropes in their 22.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:09 pm

The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:09 pm

Old Man wrote:
Duty281 wrote:What a win for England. Their best since beating NZ in 2019. clap clap

Sad to see South Africa resorting to type as the game got away from them, but no surprise.

WTF are you ralking about. You won, be gracious.

He's full of the brown stuff but if Kolisi was unlucky Steyn was very lucky.

Things were boiling over at the end

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:09 pm

king_carlos wrote:Some fight to win that despite being absolutely hammered by their forwards in the second half.

England deserved to win, they played all the rugby in the first half, outscored us by three tries to one. We threw away our opportunities by being illdisciplined when we had england on the ropes in their 22.

We seem to have struggled this season to finish opportunities in opponent 22

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Post by Duty281 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:10 pm

king_carlos wrote:Some fight to win that despite being absolutely hammered by their forwards in the second half.

Quite something, especially with that penalty count. England were monstered by the South African forwards, and most rugby games will quickly go away from the side getting monstered. Reckon South Africa took too many shots at goal, rather than utilising their maul and putting further penalty pressure (and possibility of more cards) on England.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:10 pm

What a win for England, what with all the penalties England was giving away i thought SA would win. But for England to come back anw win in the last minute of the game was really something.

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:10 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

If you take the time to look at bith sides there were plenty of handbags thrown around.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:11 pm

Old Man wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:How was that not a knee drop on Smith? That's a very lucky Bok still to be on the pitch.

Match is over, won't make a difference.

Would have mattered for the final kick chase potentially.

England complete the skin of teeth job. Pollard's missed kicks crucial.

Positives for England are the young guys rejuvenating the team. Smith looks comfortable at this level, for the first time in years we've been able to sub Youngs as he's tiring and have someone come in and raise the tempo, Steward a rock at the back, Malins was excellent and Marchant looks incisive. Pack needs some work, well a lot of work but some returning players will help that in the 6N.

Another man of the match for Steward. To the manor born that lad.

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:11 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:What a win for England, what with all the penalties England was giving away i thought SA would win. But for England to come back anw win  in the last minute of the game was really something.

We made that a habit this year, we now lost in the last minute due to illdiscipline vs Aus thanks to Wiese, to Nz thanks to Jantjies and to England thanks to Jantjies.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:12 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

Largely what I meant, it's a usual South Africa thing.

Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:12 pm

Fantastic

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:12 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Old Man wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:How was that not a knee drop on Smith? That's a very lucky Bok still to be on the pitch.

Match is over, won't make a difference.

Would have mattered for the final kick chase potentially.

England complete the skin of teeth job. Pollard's missed kicks crucial.

Positives for England are the young guys rejuvenating the team. Smith looks comfortable at this level, for the first time in years we've been able to sub Youngs as he's tiring and have someone come in and raise the tempo, Steward a rock at the back, Malins was excellent and Marchant looks incisive. Pack needs some work, well a lot of work but some returning players will help that in the 6N.

Another man of the match for Steward. To the manor born that lad.

Meh, outscoring us three tries to one says it all. No use we can build pressure but not convert it. We didn't deserve to win.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:12 pm

Old Man wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

BS, if you take the time to look at bith sides there were plenty of handbags thrown around.

Yeah both sets of forwards were itching for it to kick off. As an England fan if like to point the finger at the Boks but it's difficult when Lawes the England captain is jumping in at every opportunity for handbags. Not great leadership.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:14 pm

I wonder if Quirke is going to be the starting SH in the 6N - he does look very good

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:15 pm

Congrats England. Successful Autumn and a good win today, considering the pressure in the second half.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:16 pm

Malins stopping the Kwagga Smith try was a fantastic moment too

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:16 pm

With this win for England, does that mean England move to number 1 in the world rankings or not?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:18 pm

I still feel we just miss that little bit of bulk in a few positions...hopefully one or two players come through who can offer that...

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:19 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:With this win for England, does that mean England move to number 1 in the world rankings or not?

No we'll stay 3rd. I suspect SA will stay no.1 with the AB's at 2

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Post by miltonkeynesengland Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:19 pm

Siya Kolisi....gentleman...thank you for your post match comments.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

Largely what I meant, it's a usual South Africa thing.

Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

Exactly, there was some real nasty stuff going on from SA.....they're not the best losers to be fair.

Far from a convincing win for us but a win for the rugby purists somewhat. SA play such boring rugby, it's just turgid to watch. I understand they're effective but you want some form of entertainment from your national side, I couldn't watch that week in week out

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:26 pm

The pressure SA create when they get into their stride is something else though. For large chunks of the 2nd half you just could not see England getting out of their half, and they could not get any joy from the set piece at all.

And then you get Slade putting Marchant through with Quirke following up and its game on

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:26 pm

lostinwales wrote:Malins stopping the Kwagga Smith try was a fantastic moment too

Yeah that was well defended, but Kwagga made the wrong decision there. He should not have tried to roll over Malins. He should have laid it back, Reinach was ready to pounce as there was a space on the blind side.

Kolisi will rue the poor pass to Jesse Kriel who had an open run to the try line.

Boks will rue the going through the rucj after Etzebeth's run and great save by Marx, we had the momentum, had no need to run into the ruck like that.

England scored beautiful tries tonight.

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:27 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

Largely what I meant, it's a usual South Africa thing.

Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

Exactly, there was some real nasty stuff going on from SA.....they're not the best losers to be fair.

Far from a convincing win for us but a win for the rugby purists somewhat. SA play such boring rugby, it's just turgid to watch. I understand they're effective but you want some form of entertainment from your national side, I couldn't watch that week in week out

I will grant you we were poor in the first half, but if you think SA was boring in the second half then I call on that.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:28 pm

What does this result mean for Owen Farrell?
Where do England go for a true Inside Centre?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:29 pm

No doubting it effective, it's just very hard on the eyes. They really should be using that pack dominance to open it up in the backs but it's just the same scrum, maul, repeat.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:31 pm

Farrell will be there when fit I think we know yhet...but not as a starter...
I'd let many go now aswell....just can't rely on him
10 Smith
12 Slade
13 Marchant

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:32 pm

I went from feeling "How have we managed to lose this?" to "How did we manage to win that?"

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:33 pm

How did we win that?!? Great battle from the Boks, that was a war.

South Africa were brutal and our scrum was a bit of a shambles, but fair play, the lads were bloody resilient.

I thought some of the penalties were a bit harsh, particularly against Baggins, he seemed to be on the ball quickly but still got penalised, if that was the standard, some of the Boks should have gone the other way.

On the Kolisi card, I think the ref was covering himself, England were under the posts when he blew up.
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Post by Barney McGrew did it Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:33 pm

Stunning win for England. They scored the 1st half tries, but did their best to keep SA in the game. Then spent a good quarter of the match being thrown around like rag dolls but still had the dog (and tries) to eventually come out on top, just. That’s some spirit, especially from the youngsters. Now all we need is a back-up hooker who can throw in. And to work on the game plan without the unfortunate Manu.

The knee-drop on Smith needs a citing for sure – no idea how the ref & TMO missed it.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:34 pm

Old Man wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

Largely what I meant, it's a usual South Africa thing.

Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

Exactly, there was some real nasty stuff going on from SA.....they're not the best losers to be fair.

Far from a convincing win for us but a win for the rugby purists somewhat. SA play such boring rugby, it's just turgid to watch. I understand they're effective but you want some form of entertainment from your national side, I couldn't watch that week in week out

I will grant you we were poor in the first half, but if you think SA was boring in the second half then I call on that.

I never said they were poor, I said they were boring. Entertainment is subjective so if you don't really get to have an opinion on my perspective tbh. If you genuinely find the way they play entertaining, good for you, I think it's quite dire.


Last edited by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:34 pm

That has to sadly signal the end for Manu now, you just cannot rely on him to be fit.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:36 pm

And can we please end Ewells time in the squad...Isiekwe much better

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Post by lostinwales Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:37 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:That has to sadly signal the end for Manu now, you just cannot rely on him to be fit.

Manu has played very well in two games and took a nice try in this. He's not lucky but he still has enormous presence. All players get injured. He'll be back.

The good news is that Slade/Marchant looked solid too

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:38 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:That has to sadly signal the end for Manu now, you just cannot rely on him to be fit.

Manu has played very well in two games and took a nice try in this. He's not lucky but he still has enormous presence. All players get injured. He'll be back.

The good news is that Slade/Marchant looked solid too

But you cant build a team with a guy who you just dont know if he'll be fit or not...

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:38 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Stunning win for England. They scored the 1st half tries, but did their best to keep SA in the game. Then spent a good quarter of the match being thrown around like rag dolls but still had the dog (and tries) to eventually come out on top, just. That’s some spirit, especially from the youngsters. Now all we need is a back-up hooker who can throw in. And to work on the game plan without the unfortunate Manu.

The knee-drop on Smith needs a citing for sure – no idea how the ref & TMO missed it.

Yep, that was a pretty disgusting cheap shot. Considering they were happy to give a billion penalties against us, it was curious that the officials completely ignored that.
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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:38 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

Largely what I meant, it's a usual South Africa thing.

Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

Exactly, there was some real nasty stuff going on from SA.....they're not the best losers to be fair.

Far from a convincing win for us but a win for the rugby purists somewhat. SA play such boring rugby, it's just turgid to watch. I understand they're effective but you want some form of entertainment from your national side, I couldn't watch that week in week out

I will grant you we were poor in the first half, but if you think SA was boring in the second half then I call on that.

I never said they were poor, I said they were boring. Entertainment is subjective so if you don't really get to have an opinion on my perspective tbh. If you genuinely find the way they play entertaining, good for you, I think it's quite dire.

Happy for you, keep the narrative going.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:40 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:That has to sadly signal the end for Manu now, you just cannot rely on him to be fit.

How did Manu get hurt? what injury did he go off with?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:41 pm

doctor_grey wrote:What does this result mean for Owen Farrell?
Where do England go for a true Inside Centre?  

Er.....farell. the next 2 are Kelly and Ojomoh are the guys who are going to take over.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:42 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:And can we please end Ewells time in the squad...Isiekwe much better

Needs to ask Saracems to play him as a lock surely?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:43 pm

Old Man wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:The moment SA sense defeat we see the nasty streak coming out, some real cheap shots.

A lucky win but we have a template to beat SA now. If we could get some kind of parity in the pack we have the backs to cut them to ribbons.

Largely what I meant, it's a usual South Africa thing.

Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

Exactly, there was some real nasty stuff going on from SA.....they're not the best losers to be fair.

Far from a convincing win for us but a win for the rugby purists somewhat. SA play such boring rugby, it's just turgid to watch. I understand they're effective but you want some form of entertainment from your national side, I couldn't watch that week in week out

I will grant you we were poor in the first half, but if you think SA was boring in the second half then I call on that.

I never said they were poor, I said they were boring. Entertainment is subjective so if you don't really get to have an opinion on my perspective tbh. If you genuinely find the way they play entertaining, good for you, I think it's quite dire.

Happy for you, keep the narrative going.

You annoyed by those offside decisions against England?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:44 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:That has to sadly signal the end for Manu now, you just cannot rely on him to be fit.

How did Manu get hurt? what injury did he go off with?

Boks were mean to him. Off with hurt feelings.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:Stunning win for England. They scored the 1st half tries, but did their best to keep SA in the game. Then spent a good quarter of the match being thrown around like rag dolls but still had the dog (and tries) to eventually come out on top, just. That’s some spirit, especially from the youngsters. Now all we need is a back-up hooker who can throw in. And to work on the game plan without the unfortunate Manu.

The knee-drop on Smith needs a citing for sure – no idea how the ref & TMO missed it.

Yep, that was a pretty disgusting cheap shot.  Considering they were happy to give a billion penalties against us, it was curious that the officials completely ignored that.

The ref was poor, he was default giving pens to SA. Luckily for us SA didn't have the ability to close the game out...they really should have.

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Post by protea438 Sat 20 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm

Smell a couple of MBE's on the way or an open bus tour, well done

[quote="Duty281"]
Sgt_Pooly wrote:[b]
Should be a long ban for the player (Steyn?) who dropped a UFC knee into proceedings, he could have caused serious injury.

Nowhere near like that thug Itoje during the Lions tour, he got away with it so Steyn should be fine.

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