PGATour Running Commentary January 2022

by GPB Sat 01 Jan 2022, 2:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Happy New Year. After a nearly a year and half, its time for a new thread.

39 ofthe 40 Players eligible to play Sentry ToC are playing. Only one missing is Rory McIlroy.

by McLaren Wed 08 Jun 2022, 5:38 pm

Unless the LIV events become official Asian tour events it will be tough for them to get OWGR status. I believe that PGAT and ET officials are on the board who decides what tours/events get points.

There is barely a market for two main tours so I agree with olly in that the tour to suffer first will be the ET. If the saudis really wanted they could probably afford to sign up almost every ET players.

At this point the only people who can save the day are the majors. If the R&A, PGAofA, USGA and The Masters decide the LIV guys aren't getting in then maybe this thing remains a side show.

by Shotrock Wed 08 Jun 2022, 6:37 pm

Well, money talk, BS walks as they say.

I do think the ET will suffer first.

The Masters can do whatever they want with their invitational tournament. The ramifications for the other majors go deeper methinks.

Bottom line ... IF the Saudis remain interested and can play the long game, they will find a place in professional golf for some time. Someone said they are producing over 27 Million barrels of oil a day. With the price of oil on the rise, they certainly have the money for the long haul ... but will they find other hobbies that interest them more?

by beninho Wed 08 Jun 2022, 6:40 pm

Why would it be saving the day?

Golf should have done sonething to ward this off, it hasn't changed anything. It maybe believed its own hype. But BDC while seemingly a cok is a big draw in golf. He's a big name.

I cant see the majors changing rules to nan anything.

This is another interesting article, similar to the debate lreviously about banning them. https://www.morgansl.com/en/latest/liv-golf-and-dp-world-tour-what-players-legal-position

by beninho Wed 08 Jun 2022, 6:41 pm

How many regular events does a top pro play each year 12/14? Plus majors?

by beninho Wed 08 Jun 2022, 6:43 pm

Basically, there are 4 maim events each year. The rest is about money.

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 8:41 am

I'm interested to see the ramifications for Ryder Cup.

Most of the Europeans who have joined LIV are has-beens and would have been unlikely to play again anyway, whilst some of the US Team are/were prime candidates for their team.
Also be interested to see what happens in the parody major, The Masters.

by beninho Thu 09 Jun 2022, 8:46 am

I saw that Warren Buffett is a member st Augusta. Until not long ago his fund had plenty of dealings with the PIF.

I'm sure those multi millionaire members all have something linked to Saudi.

I saw about Poulter being asked at Putin and Russia. Didn't tge Euro tour have a Russian Open until a few years back?

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 8:51 am

beninho wrote:I saw that Warren Buffett is a member st Augusta. Until not long ago his fund had plenty of dealings with the PIF.

I'm sure those multi millionaire members all have something linked to Saudi.

I saw about Poulter being asked at Putin and Russia. Didn't tge Euro tour have a Russian Open until a few years back?

Terrible journalism. They don't ask Hamilton, Joshua etc about doing their sports in Saudi, nor do they seem to give a toss about Dubai, Qatar, China ,USA as countries with questionable laws.
If I was Poulter or Westwood I would have turned the tables and asked the journalist if he'd work for a paper owned by Putin, North Korea or Beijing.

by beninho Thu 09 Jun 2022, 8:59 am

Lewis Hamikton raised that he was uncomfortable racing in Saudi when it started and Seb Vettell has raised objections, especially about the issues with homosexuality in those countries.

But golf is played all over with dubious regimes, though Saudi is probably the market leader!

Have the PGA and Euro tours dealt with this badly? They just sort of believed when everyone said it will fall flat. And now it's lost some marketable players..

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 9:09 am

beninho wrote:Lewis Hamikton raised that he was uncomfortable racing in Saudi when it started and Seb Vettell has raised objections, especially about the issues with homosexuality in those countries.

But golf is played all over with dubious regimes, though Saudi is probably the market leader!

Have the PGA and Euro tours dealt with this badly? They just sort of believed when everyone said it will fall flat. And now it's lost some marketable players..

Never stopped Hamilton taking the money though did it ? Sports' weapons grade hypocrite.

by beninho Thu 09 Jun 2022, 9:16 am

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Lewis Hamikton raised that he was uncomfortable racing in Saudi when it started and Seb Vettell has raised objections, especially about the issues with homosexuality in those countries.

But golf is played all over with dubious regimes, though Saudi is probably the market leader!

Have the PGA and Euro tours dealt with this badly? They just sort of believed when everyone said it will fall flat. And now it's lost some marketable players..

Never stopped Hamilton taking the money though did it ? Sports' weapons grade hypocrite.

Money from whom?

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 9:19 am

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Lewis Hamikton raised that he was uncomfortable racing in Saudi when it started and Seb Vettell has raised objections, especially about the issues with homosexuality in those countries.

But golf is played all over with dubious regimes, though Saudi is probably the market leader!

Have the PGA and Euro tours dealt with this badly? They just sort of believed when everyone said it will fall flat. And now it's lost some marketable players..

Never stopped Hamilton taking the money though did it ? Sports' weapons grade hypocrite.

Money from whom?

Saudi Arabia, they pay to host the race. Hamilton gets money from this down the line in his pay
If Hamilton was genuine instead of just a virtue signaller he would boycott these countries, but of course he won't.

Where do you think F1 gets its money? Each circuit pays dozens of millions to host each Grand Prix

by beninho Thu 09 Jun 2022, 9:23 am

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Lewis Hamikton raised that he was uncomfortable racing in Saudi when it started and Seb Vettell has raised objections, especially about the issues with homosexuality in those countries.

But golf is played all over with dubious regimes, though Saudi is probably the market leader!

Have the PGA and Euro tours dealt with this badly? They just sort of believed when everyone said it will fall flat. And now it's lost some marketable players..

Never stopped Hamilton taking the money though did it ? Sports' weapons grade hypocrite.

Money from whom?

Saudi Arabia, they pay to host the race. Hamilton gets money from this down the line in prize money.
If Hamilton was genuine instead of just a virtue signaller he would boycott these countries, but of course he won't.

Where do you think F1 gets its money? Each circuit pays dozens of millions to host each Grand Prix

Yes, I'm fully aware the circuits pay to host the races.

Thinking that someone shoukd give up his job because he is uncomfortable with a part of it, is beyond bonkers though.

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 9:31 am

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Lewis Hamikton raised that he was uncomfortable racing in Saudi when it started and Seb Vettell has raised objections, especially about the issues with homosexuality in those countries.

But golf is played all over with dubious regimes, though Saudi is probably the market leader!

Have the PGA and Euro tours dealt with this badly? They just sort of believed when everyone said it will fall flat. And now it's lost some marketable players..

Never stopped Hamilton taking the money though did it ? Sports' weapons grade hypocrite.

Money from whom?

Saudi Arabia, they pay to host the race. Hamilton gets money from this down the line in prize money.
If Hamilton was genuine instead of just a virtue signaller he would boycott these countries, but of course he won't.

Where do you think F1 gets its money? Each circuit pays dozens of millions to host each Grand Prix

Yes, I'm fully aware the circuits pay to host the races.

Thinking that someone shoukd give up his job because he is uncomfortable with a part of it, is beyond bonkers though.

No it isn't. Staying with a job you are morally opposed to the locations where it occurs demonstrates you don't care enough about the things you are criticising it for.
Hamilton, Joshua and these LIV golfers do not require the money. Hamilton directly benefits from the countries he is so keen to criticise, yet when it comes down to it, isn't brave enough to actually back up his convictions with action. Typical activist hypocrite.

by McLaren Thu 09 Jun 2022, 12:29 pm

Good to see Super thinks along the same lines as the Muslim FIA president Ben Sulayem.

Ben Sulyam: “Niki Lauda and Alain Prost only cared about driving. Now, Vettel drives a rainbow bicycle, Lewis is passionate about human rights and Norris addresses mental health. Everybody has the right to think. To me, it is about deciding whether we should impose our believes in something over the sport all the time.

“I am from an Arabian culture. I am international and Muslim. I do not impose my believes on other people? No way! Never. If you look at my operation in the UAE: 16 nationalities! Name me one federation that has that many nationalities.

“On top, there are over 34% women and 7 religions. And even more Christians than Muslims. I am proud because it creates credibility and merit.

“But do I go and pose my beliefs? No. The rules are there, even now there are issues when it comes to – for example- jewellery, I didn’t write that.”

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 1:18 pm

McLaren wrote:Good to see Super thinks along the same lines as the Muslim FIA president Ben Sulayem.

Ben Sulyam: “Niki Lauda and Alain Prost only cared about driving. Now, Vettel drives a rainbow bicycle, Lewis is passionate about human rights and Norris addresses mental health. Everybody has the right to think. To me, it is about deciding whether we should impose our believes in something over the sport all the time.

“I am from an Arabian culture. I am international and Muslim. I do not impose my believes on other people? No way! Never. If you look at my operation in the UAE: 16 nationalities! Name me one federation that has that many nationalities.

“On top, there are over 34% women and 7 religions. And even more Christians than Muslims. I am proud because it creates credibility and merit.

“But do I go and pose my beliefs? No. The rules are there, even now there are issues when it comes to – for example- jewellery, I didn’t write that.”

Why would Hamilton want to wear jewelry in a race car? The guy is probably the biggest anus in sport.

by Shotrock Thu 09 Jun 2022, 3:45 pm

So, the hammer drops.

I still can't get my arms around $200 Million for a 51 year-old FIGJAM.

I don't mind the shotgun start however!

by LadyPutt Thu 09 Jun 2022, 3:52 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:First LIV event is finally here this week - and so much is still unknown. Is it being broadcast in the UK?

YouTube if you’re desperate

by super_realist Thu 09 Jun 2022, 3:57 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:First LIV event is finally here this week - and so much is still unknown. Is it being broadcast in the UK?
YouTube if you’re desperate

Commentary is abyssmal

by beninho Thu 09 Jun 2022, 4:30 pm

Shotrock wrote:So, the hammer drops.

I still can't get my arms around $200 Million for a 51 year-old FIGJAM.

I don't mind the shotgun start however!

I think the shotgun start is a great idea. And can see it implemented more.

by Lowlandbrit Thu 09 Jun 2022, 6:38 pm

beninho wrote:Didn't tge Euro tour have a Russian Open until a few years back?

It had a Saudi International (ironically Mickelson's last Tour sanctioned event) for three years...

by Shotrock Fri 10 Jun 2022, 3:19 pm

In another part of the world (just down the road from me) the Curtis Cup is being contested at Merion (East). A really exceptional course.

by super_realist Fri 10 Jun 2022, 3:32 pm

Shotrock wrote:In another part of the world (just down the road from me) the Curtis Cup is being contested at Merion (East). A really exceptional course.

Is Merion the one with the wicker basket flags

by Shotrock Fri 10 Jun 2022, 3:46 pm

It is (something I think they stole from Sunningdale). For a short course, it really packs a punch without being tricked up. Worth the effort to play there if you are ever in these parts.

by McLaren Fri 10 Jun 2022, 4:44 pm

It is a shame that the curtis cup at merion will get lost in all the Saudi golf coverage. Probably going to be a very cool event.

by Shotrock Tue 14 Jun 2022, 4:48 pm

I hope some of you saw the Curtis Cup from Merion. Course showed very well. Perhaps this event should be South Korea v ROW?

On another subject, the next LIV event will be held at Pumpkin Ridge in Oregon. I've been told a bunch of member resigned and Pumpkin Ridge did not endear themselves to the USGA or PGA (if they even care). What they did get -- I'm told -- is a boatload of money which sure goes a long way to funding any future capital programs. Everyone has their price!

by super_realist Tue 14 Jun 2022, 6:54 pm

Shotrock wrote:I hope some of you saw the Curtis Cup from Merion. Course showed very well. Perhaps this event should be South Korea v ROW?

On another subject, the next LIV event will be held at Pumpkin Ridge in Oregon. I've been told a bunch of member resigned and Pumpkin Ridge did not endear themselves to the USGA or PGA (if they even care). What they did get -- I'm told -- is a boatload of money which sure goes a long way to funding any future capital programs. Everyone has their price!

Americans taking a moral high ground is quite funny

by Shotrock Thu 16 Jun 2022, 3:45 pm

Nice to see Rory playing like Rory can. His confidence seems very high.

by Shotrock Sun 19 Jun 2022, 11:51 am

IMO ...

The Blue Jackets at the USGA have the TCC set up right. Let's hope they don't screw it up today.

Should make for some great viewing today, too. I could see a Rory/Rahm/Scheffler shootout; beware Bradley, Fitzpatrick and Zalatoris. Seems pretty wide open to me.

by pedro Mon 20 Jun 2022, 12:19 am

Fitzy! Exciting finish, exciting tournament. It went down to the very last shot. Majors have been quite dull lately, but this was one of the better.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 20 Jun 2022, 12:25 am

Absolutely belting weekend of major golf imo - load of top names in contention, nobody ran away with it, and some superb shots and putts holed down the back nine!
That bunker shot from Fitz at 18 will be played for many a year. What a win for him!

by Shotrock Mon 20 Jun 2022, 1:21 am

Well done Fitzpatrick ... a number of clutch shots in addition to the amazing approach on 18.

by super_realist Mon 20 Jun 2022, 7:44 am

pedro wrote:Fitzy! Exciting finish, exciting tournament. It went down to the very last shot. Majors have been quite dull lately, but this was one of the better.

Enjoy it because St Andrews Will be terrible

by McLaren Tue 21 Jun 2022, 1:18 pm

super_realist wrote:
pedro wrote:Fitzy! Exciting finish, exciting tournament. It went down to the very last shot. Majors have been quite dull lately, but this was one of the better.

Enjoy it because St Andrews Will be terrible

Super the current crop of top players don't know how to put on a bad display. If we get the usual suspects near the top the score will be irrelevant. The golf will be exciting.

by super_realist Tue 21 Jun 2022, 2:09 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:
pedro wrote:Fitzy! Exciting finish, exciting tournament. It went down to the very last shot. Majors have been quite dull lately, but this was one of the better.

Enjoy it because St Andrews Will be terrible

Super the current crop of top players don't know how to put on a bad display. If we get the usual suspects near the top the score will be irrelevant. The golf will be exciting.

It's not the players Mac, it's the course. It's going to be a borefest because it will just be like an American tee to green drearyness. Very easy to see players hit 18 greens in regulation and even missed greens don't provide too many opportunities for amazing or imaginative shot making. Players simply putt.

I have it on good authority that the Links Trust are seeking to extend the period between TOC opens in future, which seems sensible given how obsolete it has become.

by I'm never wrong Tue 21 Jun 2022, 5:05 pm

DJ, Reed, Mickelson, DeChambeau, Oosthuizen, Na, Garcia, Poulter, Westwood, McDowell and a few more have jumped ship. Koepka and Ancer apparently going soon, (but not Morikawa). Not all in the top 50 of the world, but well known names. I wonder what the tipping point will be in terms of personnel for the PGA Tour to rethink? DP World Tour supposedly making a statement soon, but LIV golfers in the field for this weeks tournament - and the organisers have put at least six of them together!!

by Shotrock Tue 21 Jun 2022, 8:44 pm

B. Koepka is a big defection.

The Saudi's will need TV contracts to make this work well beyond the "interesting hobby" stage. Can they do that? With all the streaming services, etc. I do not see why not.

But -- to me -- that begs the question: How long will they stay interested? I mean, golf is not exactly full of exciting personalities, it's hard to build specific rivalries (like football and F1) given the ups and downs of even the best players and it's never a quick event to view. We saw a great last 9 holes this past weekend at the US Open but that's certainly not always the case. Money may get the players, but I do see a dilution of product for all. Hmmmm ....

by super_realist Wed 22 Jun 2022, 6:19 am

Shotrock wrote:B. Koepka is a big defection.

The Saudi's will need TV contracts to make this work well beyond the "interesting hobby" stage. Can they do that? With all the streaming services, etc. I do not see why not.

But -- to me -- that begs the question: How long will they stay interested? I mean, golf is not exactly full of exciting personalities, it's hard to build specific rivalries (like football and F1) given the ups and downs of even the best players and it's never a quick event to view. We saw a great last 9 holes this past weekend at the US Open but that's certainly not always the case. Money may get the players, but I do see a dilution of product for all. Hmmmm ....

What sports are full of interesting personalities? You can name on the fingers of a Saudi Arabian thief's hand the people in sport who are interesting.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 22 Jun 2022, 8:38 am

Agree on the dilution of the product for all point Shotrock - for all I dislike the LIV, they are making waves...and so far the PGA Tour's response is very disappointing I think.

Rumours now of them introducing some sort of extra "elevated" events series of 8 events, for the top 50 in last seasons Fedex, likely to happen over the fall/winter, with bigger prize pots.
How is their solution, to add more WGC type events, with a bit of extra money, in a period of the season folk don't really care about (competing in the US with the NFL in particular!)? Is there real only solution here, to just try and out-money the government of Saudi Arabia?!

Monahan is coming across woefully incompetent in this whole thing in my opinion.

by Shotrock Wed 22 Jun 2022, 12:08 pm

True enough Super.

With their 'team' approach they are trying to build rivalries, but I remain skeptical that will work.

by super_realist Wed 22 Jun 2022, 12:15 pm

Shotrock wrote:True enough Super.

With their 'team' approach they are trying to build rivalries, but I remain skeptical that will work.

The team element in my opinion is moronic and should be dropped, also the stupid Americanised team names are just embarrassing. The rest of the world doesn't go in for that crap. It hasn't worked in Cricket I can't see it working in Golf.

No one cares about confected team competition like this.

by pedro Thu 23 Jun 2022, 9:40 am

super_realist wrote:
Shotrock wrote:True enough Super.

With their 'team' approach they are trying to build rivalries, but I remain skeptical that will work.

The team element in my opinion is moronic and should be dropped, also the stupid Americanised team names are just embarrassing. The rest of the world doesn't go in for that crap. It hasn't worked in Cricket I can't see it working in Golf.

No one cares about confected team competition like this.

The team names are stupid. But I wouldn't discard the team element before it has had its chance.
Although LIV did well in recruiting drama queens Phil, Sergio, BdC and BK, it's difficult to build rivalries in golf. Unlike footballers or F1 drivers, golfers don't care about rivalries - probably because their pulse is too low and rarely meet head to head.

Sums it up pretty well
https://mobile.twitter.com/sam_golf/status/1539629022665228288

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 23 Jun 2022, 9:54 am

The team element in the LIV stuff had potential I think if they did it well - but they've done it just about as horrendously as possible!

Stupid names and logos, they're changing team captains and members at every event, the "draft" wasn't even a proper one because two of the teams were randomly allowed to just play together because they wanted too (like a school playground ffs - and one of them unsurprisingly won, because you know they had all the best players), and then the draft itself not even broadcast to the fans! That's before you get into the weird way in event they're picking which scores count and which don't. A total nonsense

by McLaren Thu 23 Jun 2022, 2:47 pm

In principle more team golf makes sense but in practice it is hard to think of any way you could come up with meaningful teams. Captains picking whoever they think is the best set of players is pretty much as good as anything. It's possible that a week to week team tournament can't work for pro golf.

In my opinion the main golf team events that currently work are;

On a level quite a few of us will have experienced is representing your club. (leagues, foursomes, interclubs etc)

Representing your county or country as an amatuer (everything up to Curtis/walker cup)

College golf (Representing the university you chose to attend is clearly going to meaningful)

Ryder/Solheim cup.

Not sure how you can replicate any of them for the top pros. And we know how flat these things can feel, just watch the presidents cup.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 07 Jul 2022, 9:25 am

Reckon you will get your low scoring at St Andrews in a week Super - doesn't seem to be much wind about or many weather conditions at the moment, could be a birdie bonzana as it will be at the Scottish Open this week

by McLaren Thu 07 Jul 2022, 11:02 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Reckon you will get your low scoring at St Andrews in a week Super - doesn't seem to be much wind about or many weather conditions at the moment, could be a birdie bonzana as it will be at the Scottish Open this week

Which sucks. Especially because I have played all my golf of late in the Edinburgh region in high winds. The courses are baked out here and the wind has made it quite tough.

by ralphjohn69 Wed 13 Jul 2022, 11:38 am

Who's going to win the Open then? Anybody going? Anybody care?!

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 13 Jul 2022, 12:00 pm

ralphjohn69 wrote:Who's going to win the Open then? Anybody going? Anybody care?!

The Old Course looks baked and firm - I think the likes of Spieth/Cam Smith will go well this week. Rory seems the heavy betting favourite, but I am not seeing that this week for him. Who do you fancy Ralph?

by BlueCoverman Wed 13 Jul 2022, 12:02 pm

Any predictions on the winning score given the conditions?

by Davie Wed 13 Jul 2022, 1:10 pm

-35 winning score. Any advance on that? Smile

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