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England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

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Post by hugehandoff Sun 20 Mar 2022, 5:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

A few things whirling around my head and most start with the fact that Eddie is likely to remain in charge. There are probably a lack of available alternatives and the RFU won't want to fork out more money. Therefore, he is likely to remain in charge until the RWC 2023 is done. Bearing that in mind what are the positives and negatives?

Positives
We have some decent forwards for sure and the set piece should be fine. Underhill was terrific yesterday and I think a return to Curry and Underhill playing around a big 8 would be very handy. Dombrandt should be that man.
Our defence is excellent and the team spirit is clearly there.
We have loads of quality players who can hopefully return to fitness and form and add to the mix. All countries lose players and of course we have more resources than anyone bar France, but we will no doubt look completely different if Launchbury, Hill, Curry, Cowan-Dickie, Manu, May, Watson, Cockanasiga, Farrell are all fit and firing.
We have some foundations to build on and it is not Eddie's fault that we have not had Manu, or a decent replacement, available to add some power to our midfield.
There is enough time to fix many of these issues.

Negatives
Inconsistent selection
Inconsistent tactics and coaching team (too many coaching changes). Taking over from Lancaster Eddie was very clear on what to do. Restore England's traditional strengths in the set piece, defence and back it up with good kicking. Now we are totally confused as what we are trying to do.
The whole thing about playing players not in their best positions
Everyone is bored with Eddie's comments - we need less of him

Aus Tour
What a statement he made by winning 3-0 last time post a grand slam. Ruthless in taking off Burrell after 25 minutes. And they were missing Manu then as well and ended up with Ford, Farrell and Joseph so if we assume that Manu is unavailable then there is still hope. But we need players in their correct position and we need some consistency. Considering we don't have too many options at 12 and Slade is not really working out should we revert to Farrell? Not exactly a running beast, but at least he will be fresh and might just add some toughness. I would love to see Youngs left behind and to back 2 of our younger 9s. Genge, Dombrandt, Smith, Steward etc all need exposure to a tough away series.

Autumn
Based purely on form this is now the time to select the 23 Eddie sees as our strongest RWC team. All bets are off now and if a Mako or Bill V are playing well and showing the form and hunger to return then why not consider them. We might need then in the RWC group even if they are back ups to the regular starters. So maybe give them a game to see where they are? And then hopefully we can enjoy some consistent selection allied with a revamped game plan.

Anyone else hopeful that Eddie can resurrect the team and our RWC ambitions?

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 24 May 2022, 11:45 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Launchbury ludlam and dolly out due to injury. Ewan Richards Isiekwe and Singleton in.

From what we saw from Saints I'd have called up Hinckley to replace Ludlum. Only a training session and he's been impressive since he started playing again.
He has really been good.  Hopefully this continues for the next three games.....

Next two games you mean.
I don't want Saints to lose to Sarries in the final....
Run

You are likely to get the team that dismantled you home and away in the league this season first. I'm hoping for three in a row given I missed the Franklin Gardens massacre despite having a ticket as I was in hospital. Got a ticket for the semi final though so looking forward to that.

Hoping Quins do a number on Sarries in the other semi final.
This will make the the sweet nectar of a near impossible victory taste so much sweeter. And will set up a loverly final where Saints can repeat their near impossible victory against Quins (see the trend there?).

doctor_grey

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 25 May 2022, 7:04 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sure he'd played lock before, even Leicester have him down as lock/back row.

He was almost solely a lock all through the academy and in England age grades. Since breaking into the first team I think he's come off the bench and covered lock once in his second game but has otherwise played predominantly 6 with the occasional appearance at 8.

For whatever reason Borthwick doesn't seem to like playing him at lock. Liebenburg the other 6 is similar and has had a brief spell in France previously playing lock as a medical joker but he's not been utilised in that position either.

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Post by Geordie Wed 25 May 2022, 8:08 am

doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Launchbury ludlam and dolly out due to injury. Ewan Richards Isiekwe and Singleton in.

From what we saw from Saints I'd have called up Hinckley to replace Ludlum. Only a training session and he's been impressive since he started playing again.
He has really been good.  Hopefully this continues for the next three games.....

Next two games you mean.
I don't want Saints to lose to Sarries in the final....
Run

You are likely to get the team that dismantled you home and away in the league this season first. I'm hoping for three in a row given I missed the Franklin Gardens massacre despite having a ticket as I was in hospital. Got a ticket for the semi final though so looking forward to that.

Hoping Quins do a number on Sarries in the other semi final.
This will make the the sweet nectar of a near impossible victory taste so much sweeter.  And will set up a loverly final where Saints can repeat their near impossible victory against Quins (see the trend there?).

I know everyone will laugh but Saints still have to beat us...and we're due a game where it all comes together...especially after Biggars comments...

Geordie

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Post by Geordie Wed 25 May 2022, 8:12 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Sure he'd played lock before, even Leicester have him down as lock/back row.

He was almost solely a lock all through the academy and in England age grades. Since breaking into the first team I think he's come off the bench and covered lock once in his second game but has otherwise played predominantly 6 with the occasional appearance at 8.

For whatever reason Borthwick doesn't seem to like playing him at lock. Liebenburg the other 6 is similar and has had a brief spell in France previously playing lock as a medical joker but he's not been utilised in that position either.

i guess with England it all depends what Eddie wants for the remainder of his tenure and what the new coach wants in the back row.

I suspect Eddie will continue with Lawes at 6...and if he's injured will look to fill it with a similar type of player. He likes a lock at 6.


Whoever takes over from Eddie, If they continue with a beast at 6...your probably looking at Martin and Ted Hill.
If you want more mobile then your looking at Jack Willis, etc...

It'll be interesting to see who takes over from Jones and where they head.

Geordie

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 25 May 2022, 8:15 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Launchbury ludlam and dolly out due to injury. Ewan Richards Isiekwe and Singleton in.

From what we saw from Saints I'd have called up Hinckley to replace Ludlum. Only a training session and he's been impressive since he started playing again.
He has really been good.  Hopefully this continues for the next three games.....

Next two games you mean.
I don't want Saints to lose to Sarries in the final....
Run

You are likely to get the team that dismantled you home and away in the league this season first. I'm hoping for three in a row given I missed the Franklin Gardens massacre despite having a ticket as I was in hospital. Got a ticket for the semi final though so looking forward to that.

Hoping Quins do a number on Sarries in the other semi final.
This will make the the sweet nectar of a near impossible victory taste so much sweeter.  And will set up a loverly final where Saints can repeat their near impossible victory against Quins (see the trend there?).

I know everyone will laugh but Saints still have to beat us...and we're due a game where it all comes together...especially after Biggars comments...

Yeah I mean anything can happen in sport. Boro beat Man U this season. Wouldn't put my mortgage on it if I were you though!

No 7&1/2

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 25 May 2022, 8:17 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Sure he'd played lock before, even Leicester have him down as lock/back row.

He was almost solely a lock all through the academy and in England age grades. Since breaking into the first team I think he's come off the bench and covered lock once in his second game but has otherwise played predominantly 6 with the occasional appearance at 8.

For whatever reason Borthwick doesn't seem to like playing him at lock. Liebenburg the other 6 is similar and has had a brief spell in France previously playing lock as a medical joker but he's not been utilised in that position either.

i guess with England it all depends what Eddie wants for the remainder of his tenure and what the new coach wants in the back row.

I suspect Eddie will continue with Lawes at 6...and if he's injured will look to fill it with a similar type of player. He likes a lock at 6.


Whoever takes over from Eddie, If they continue with a beast at 6...your probably looking at Martin and Ted Hill.
If you want more mobile then your looking at Jack Willis, etc...

It'll be interesting to see who takes over from Jones and where they head.

Yeah that was my initial point whether you think of Martin as a make shift lock or not. I've clearly painted myself into a corner that for the majority of games I want more mobile flankers. There is occasion where some added bulk can come in handy but people are normally tempted against SA and end up playing as SA light.

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Post by Geordie Wed 25 May 2022, 8:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Launchbury ludlam and dolly out due to injury. Ewan Richards Isiekwe and Singleton in.

From what we saw from Saints I'd have called up Hinckley to replace Ludlum. Only a training session and he's been impressive since he started playing again.
He has really been good.  Hopefully this continues for the next three games.....

Next two games you mean.
I don't want Saints to lose to Sarries in the final....
Run

You are likely to get the team that dismantled you home and away in the league this season first. I'm hoping for three in a row given I missed the Franklin Gardens massacre despite having a ticket as I was in hospital. Got a ticket for the semi final though so looking forward to that.

Hoping Quins do a number on Sarries in the other semi final.
This will make the the sweet nectar of a near impossible victory taste so much sweeter.  And will set up a loverly final where Saints can repeat their near impossible victory against Quins (see the trend there?).

I know everyone will laugh but Saints still have to beat us...and we're due a game where it all comes together...especially after Biggars comments...

Yeah I mean anything can happen in sport. Boro beat Man U this season. Wouldn't put my mortgage on it if I were you though!

I fancy our chances....won the last three trips down there.

Geordie

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 25 May 2022, 9:36 am

I mean the last one was 3 and a half years ago!

No 7&1/2

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Post by Geordie Wed 25 May 2022, 9:38 am

Still a fact Wink

Falcons win this weekend!

Geordie

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 25 May 2022, 9:46 am

Ha. Squeaky bum for another week I'm afraid, Euro final this weekend.

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Post by Geordie Wed 25 May 2022, 10:13 am

i stand corrected...next weekend Doh

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 25 May 2022, 10:45 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Launchbury ludlam and dolly out due to injury. Ewan Richards Isiekwe and Singleton in.

From what we saw from Saints I'd have called up Hinckley to replace Ludlum. Only a training session and he's been impressive since he started playing again.
He has really been good.  Hopefully this continues for the next three games.....

Next two games you mean.
I don't want Saints to lose to Sarries in the final....
Run

You are likely to get the team that dismantled you home and away in the league this season first. I'm hoping for three in a row given I missed the Franklin Gardens massacre despite having a ticket as I was in hospital. Got a ticket for the semi final though so looking forward to that.

Hoping Quins do a number on Sarries in the other semi final.
This will make the the sweet nectar of a near impossible victory taste so much sweeter.  And will set up a loverly final where Saints can repeat their near impossible victory against Quins (see the trend there?).

I know everyone will laugh but Saints still have to beat us...and we're due a game where it all comes together...especially after Biggars comments...

Yeah I mean anything can happen in sport. Boro beat Man U this season. Wouldn't put my mortgage on it if I were you though!

I fancy our chances....won the last three trips down there.
Yes, I know. To be fair, Saints have had such an up-and-down past few seasons, I'm not counting on anything. The thing about Falcons players is they get paid too.

doctor_grey

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 25 May 2022, 5:48 pm

And now back to the regular theme of this thread. England after the Six Nations, Australia, and beyond.

Do you think England players will be demoralised to such an extent it impacts their ability to play after Saints win the Premiership???

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 May 2022, 8:18 am

removed,


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Thu 26 May 2022, 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Geordie Thu 26 May 2022, 9:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Marler in the media saying rugby needs to do more to be welcoming to players opening up about their sexuality following Jake Daniels in the football. Obviously there will be some kicking around, I have it on pretty good authority there is a huge name in the game as an open secret but being married with kids an incredibly complex situation. I think it will take a retired guy to make it more accessible.

My natural feeling is that rugby feels a more accepting sport than a lot of others but there is a strong cultural/religious bigotry prevalent in sections (see the whole Folau/Vunipola etc situation. We have James Haskell generally being an absolute tool for the past couple of weeks in terms of sexism.

Anyway this would quickly go downhill on a thread of its own, but wanted to highlight that Marler (who has a complicated health picture in the past and some shocking acts of behaviour in terms racism, the Jones incident) sometimes is a guy who shows great leadership and seems to genuinely care. As well as being gold in interviews.

Was James a tool though? It was clear what the rugby report was saying, the woman made something out of it.

As to gays in rugby, i have had team mates who were gay, not bothered me or the rest of the team in the slightest...we're a team. In fact i always found that interesting that a rugby team in a rough part of the Newcastle area people didnt care a jot about their sexuality.

And are you referring to the Gypsy issue with marler? Not racism in the slightest.

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Post by Geordie Thu 26 May 2022, 9:47 am

doctor_grey wrote:And now back to the regular theme of this thread.  England after the Six Nations, Australia, and beyond.

Do you think England players will be demoralised to such an extent it impacts their ability to play after Saints win the Premiership???

Im curious to see who comes in as Head Coach...and how they deal with the 12 / Farrel situation...

Geordie

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 May 2022, 9:50 am

Removed.


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Thu 26 May 2022, 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 May 2022, 9:52 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:And now back to the regular theme of this thread.  England after the Six Nations, Australia, and beyond.

Do you think England players will be demoralised to such an extent it impacts their ability to play after Saints win the Premiership???

Im curious to see who comes in as Head Coach...and how they deal with the 12 / Farrel situation...

Wouldn't be surprised should the new coach want to make bold changes in places and one of the normal things is a change of captain at least so can see that being taken away. Not sure we're close to anyone dropping him from the squad though.

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Post by Geordie Thu 26 May 2022, 10:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Marler in the media saying rugby needs to do more to be welcoming to players opening up about their sexuality following Jake Daniels in the football. Obviously there will be some kicking around, I have it on pretty good authority there is a huge name in the game as an open secret but being married with kids an incredibly complex situation. I think it will take a retired guy to make it more accessible.

My natural feeling is that rugby feels a more accepting sport than a lot of others but there is a strong cultural/religious bigotry prevalent in sections (see the whole Folau/Vunipola etc situation. We have James Haskell generally being an absolute tool for the past couple of weeks in terms of sexism.

Anyway this would quickly go downhill on a thread of its own, but wanted to highlight that Marler (who has a complicated health picture in the past and some shocking acts of behaviour in terms racism, the Jones incident) sometimes is a guy who shows great leadership and seems to genuinely care. As well as being gold in interviews.

Was James a tool though? It was clear what the rugby report was saying, the woman made something out of it.

As to gays in rugby, i have had team mates who were gay, not bothered me or the rest of the team in the slightest...we're a team. In fact i always found that interesting that a rugby team in a rough part of the Newcastle area people didnt care a jot about their sexuality.

And are you referring to the Gypsy issue with marler? Not racism in the slightest.

He was a tool, made a clarification. then back to tool again! -

Yeah, general community has come on leaps and bounds since I was a kid til now. Still think it's great to see people able to be open, not hide and provide great role models. -

Yes the racist gypsy thing.

Haskell - We'll agree to disagree

Gays - Maybe if they want some kind of badge or medal for coming out then good for them. The lads i played with, hid nothing yet didnt scream it from the ceilings. Just enjoyed playing rugby and none of us cared what sexuality they were.

Gypsy - We'll agree to disagree.

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Post by Geordie Thu 26 May 2022, 10:19 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:And now back to the regular theme of this thread.  England after the Six Nations, Australia, and beyond.

Do you think England players will be demoralised to such an extent it impacts their ability to play after Saints win the Premiership???

Im curious to see who comes in as Head Coach...and how they deal with the 12 / Farrel situation...

Wouldn't be surprised should the new coach want to make bold changes in places and one of the normal things is a change of captain at least so can see that being taken away. Not sure we're close to anyone dropping him from the squad though.

The issue...is we have a few leaders....very few Captains...and i dont even think Farrell is a good captain. Hes default mode at the moment.

Geordie

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 26 May 2022, 10:21 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Marler in the media saying rugby needs to do more to be welcoming to players opening up about their sexuality following Jake Daniels in the football. Obviously there will be some kicking around, I have it on pretty good authority there is a huge name in the game as an open secret but being married with kids an incredibly complex situation. I think it will take a retired guy to make it more accessible.

My natural feeling is that rugby feels a more accepting sport than a lot of others but there is a strong cultural/religious bigotry prevalent in sections (see the whole Folau/Vunipola etc situation. We have James Haskell generally being an absolute tool for the past couple of weeks in terms of sexism.

Anyway this would quickly go downhill on a thread of its own, but wanted to highlight that Marler (who has a complicated health picture in the past and some shocking acts of behaviour in terms racism, the Jones incident) sometimes is a guy who shows great leadership and seems to genuinely care. As well as being gold in interviews.

Was James a tool though? It was clear what the rugby report was saying, the woman made something out of it.

As to gays in rugby, i have had team mates who were gay, not bothered me or the rest of the team in the slightest...we're a team. In fact i always found that interesting that a rugby team in a rough part of the Newcastle area people didnt care a jot about their sexuality.

And are you referring to the Gypsy issue with marler? Not racism in the slightest.

He was a tool, made a clarification. then back to tool again!

Yeah, general community has come on leaps and bounds since I was a kid til now. Still think it's great to see people able to be open, not hide and provide great role models.

Yes the racist gypsy thing.

Which was in no way racist.

Soul Requiem

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 May 2022, 10:22 am

removed


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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 26 May 2022, 10:48 am

Racist or not racist......lets put that discussion to one side.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 26 May 2022, 10:58 am

I'm deleting anything trying to carry this on.

Just move on lads.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 May 2022, 10:58 am

removed


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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 May 2022, 10:58 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm deleting anything trying to carry this on.

Just move on lads.

Already done mine before i saw this.

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 26 May 2022, 1:45 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm deleting anything trying to carry this on.

Just move on lads.

Thank god, I get enough of that conversation whilst doing my job. I don't need to see it when I should be working. Very Happy
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 26 May 2022, 7:32 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:And now back to the regular theme of this thread.  England after the Six Nations, Australia, and beyond.

Do you think England players will be demoralised to such an extent it impacts their ability to play after Saints win the Premiership???

Im curious to see who comes in as Head Coach...and how they deal with the 12 / Farrel situation...

Wouldn't be surprised should the new coach want to make bold changes in places and one of the normal things is a change of captain at least so can see that being taken away. Not sure we're close to anyone dropping him from the squad though.

The issue...is we have a few leaders....very few Captains...and i dont even think Farrell is a good captain. Hes default mode at the moment.

As I'm sure you're all aware by now I'm far from a fan of Farrell but got to say his form recently has been excellent. Really playing well for Sarries and England need someone to marshall the England backline as currently Smith is doing or no one is doing it, well unless Eddie throws Ford on at the same time towards the end of the game.

If England are going to persevere with the unstructured structure on attack then that level of fluidity requires constant movement and adjustment. Farrell and Smith combined well to orchestrate that Vs Australia in the Autumn but Smith and Slade failed in the 6N.

On that basis alone Farrell is currently walking back into the side as the 12. Add in his form and it's an obvious selection. Re the captaincy he might not handle referees very well but a lot of past and present players speak highly of how he operates as a captain for the squad. I'd be open to him being a leader rather than a captain as we do have options in that department with the likes of Lawes and Genge captaining their clubs.

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Post by Geordie Thu 26 May 2022, 8:42 pm

Farrell is the obvious starter at 12...noone else.

But I'd rather stick with Lawes as captain.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 26 May 2022, 9:26 pm

Yep, I still think Farrell is the best option at 12. As said many times I think captaincy is a bit of an overstated issue these days so it really doesn't bother me as much. Captains actually influencing refs ended when refs, linesman and the TMO starting working more clearly as a team IMO. I can't remember the last time I thought a captain actually influenced the ref in any way.

I think there's the bones of a good team if they can get a significant number of the experienced options on the park at the same time. It feels reliant on a lot of players with miles on the clock getting out there at once.

The locks who have replaced Kruis being nowhere near where he was is certainly a concern as well.

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Post by yappysnap Thu 26 May 2022, 9:52 pm

I can't help but think that when Farrell is on form he helps carry the teams he's in. Having him back in the side will give a lot of the guys more confidence, hopefully freeing up Smith to do his thing a little more.

We just need more pace on the wings and a crash ball runner in the backs, if one wing could be massive and the other lightning quick, with Steward at 15 that would be fantastic.

Oh and bring Care back at 9 (best scrum half in the league by miles).

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Post by king_carlos Fri 27 May 2022, 12:26 am

9.Randall 10.Smith 11.Cokanasiga 12.Farrell 13.Marchant 14.Watson 15.Steward

21.Mitchell 22.Slade 23.Arundell

Even without Manu that's the makings of a really good back line.

I don't see Randall being the long term answer at 9, think that will come from Quirke and JvP, but he showed enough in the Six Nations to get chances in the mean time.

The forwards I'm less convinced by. LCD is a massive a loss and the second row options replacing Kruis either strike me as not good enough or not quite ready. If Itoje were to get injured, thankfully he rarely has, I think we'd suddenly see just how much the lock options have been lacking compared to those 2016-2019 options at their best.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 27 May 2022, 8:12 am

KC I'm not so worried about LCD being injured whilst we have Jamie George. Having the summer to work on some depth in that department makes sense as well given their age profiles and LCD's tendency to pick up injuries. Blamire looks to have the potential but his lack of club game time is not good for his aspirations or development, I was a little surprised when the whole England payment delay thing came up Saints and Bath weren't in daily contact with his agent trying to get him over to them this summer.

Agree on lock, Ewels looks average and both Chessum and Tizard are works in progress. The hope for the world cup is that Johnny Hill can refind his form from the AIs where he looked to have finally got up to international speed. It's another area Eddie needs to work on this summer.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 27 May 2022, 8:24 am

I am surprised Isiekwe isn't inching up the pecking order. I thought he was good in his England outings, he's continued to look one of the better players for Saracens. Another guy who perhaps was slowed intially by being a flanker lock but I do think him and Itoje work well together.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 27 May 2022, 8:55 am

I think Isiekwe is potentially just a bit to light for the way Eddie wants to play, seems to want a bigger lump in row alongside Itoje. Sarries do sometimes opt for a different lock combination and go with Swinson against bigger packs.

The Daily Heil is going with a story that Freeman will be trialed at 13 this summer. Added versatility is seen as a potential bonus to the overall squad and being able to cover three positions would be helpful. Apparently he played flyhalf at school level so could be useful in managing the attack from midfield which was our downfall during the 6N. Eddie does like a playmaker in the backline, Steward having also played 10 at school level as well as Furbank who plays 10 at a better standard. Think Marchant has done a bit there, Slade obviously as well. But odd that he's looking at Freeman at 13 when Steward played there for Loughborough University and initially at the Tigers academy before being moved to 15 (he played 13 for half a European game a couple of seasons back as well).

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 27 May 2022, 8:59 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Isiekwe is potentially just a bit to light for the way Eddie wants to play, seems to want a bigger lump in row alongside Itoje. Sarries do sometimes opt for a different lock combination and go with Swinson against bigger packs.

The Daily Heil is going with a story that Freeman will be trialed at 13 this summer. Added versatility is seen as a potential bonus to the overall squad and being able to cover three positions would be helpful. Apparently he played flyhalf at school level so could be useful in managing the attack from midfield which was our downfall during the 6N. Eddie does like a playmaker in the backline, Steward having also played 10 at school level as well as Furbank who plays 10 at a better standard. Think Marchant has done a bit there, Slade obviously as well. But odd that he's looking at Freeman at 13 when Steward played there for Loughborough University and initially at the Tigers academy before being moved to 15 (he played 13 for half a European game a couple of seasons back as well).

Come on...Steward as a crash ball 12 surely?

And Genge back to full back.

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Post by Geordie Fri 27 May 2022, 9:22 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Isiekwe is potentially just a bit to light for the way Eddie wants to play, seems to want a bigger lump in row alongside Itoje. Sarries do sometimes opt for a different lock combination and go with Swinson against bigger packs.

The Daily Heil is going with a story that Freeman will be trialed at 13 this summer. Added versatility is seen as a potential bonus to the overall squad and being able to cover three positions would be helpful. Apparently he played flyhalf at school level so could be useful in managing the attack from midfield which was our downfall during the 6N. Eddie does like a playmaker in the backline, Steward having also played 10 at school level as well as Furbank who plays 10 at a better standard. Think Marchant has done a bit there, Slade obviously as well. But odd that he's looking at Freeman at 13 when Steward played there for Loughborough University and initially at the Tigers academy before being moved to 15 (he played 13 for half a European game a couple of seasons back as well).

Can we not just play the best 13 in the league and one of the best in Europe...Marchant!! FFS

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Post by Geordie Fri 27 May 2022, 9:23 am

king_carlos wrote:9.Randall 10.Smith 11.Cokanasiga 12.Farrell 13.Marchant 14.Watson 15.Steward

21.Mitchell 22.Slade 23.Arundell

Even without Manu that's the makings of a really good back line.

I don't see Randall being the long term answer at 9, think that will come from Quirke and JvP, but he showed enough in the Six Nations to get chances in the mean time.

The forwards I'm less convinced by. LCD is a massive a loss and the second row options replacing Kruis either strike me as not good enough or not quite ready. If Itoje were to get injured, thankfully he rarely has, I think we'd suddenly see just how much the lock options have been lacking compared to those 2016-2019 options at their best.

Is he in form? Or anywhere near the form he needs to be for England?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 27 May 2022, 9:29 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Isiekwe is potentially just a bit to light for the way Eddie wants to play, seems to want a bigger lump in row alongside Itoje. Sarries do sometimes opt for a different lock combination and go with Swinson against bigger packs.

The Daily Heil is going with a story that Freeman will be trialed at 13 this summer. Added versatility is seen as a potential bonus to the overall squad and being able to cover three positions would be helpful. Apparently he played flyhalf at school level so could be useful in managing the attack from midfield which was our downfall during the 6N. Eddie does like a playmaker in the backline, Steward having also played 10 at school level as well as Furbank who plays 10 at a better standard. Think Marchant has done a bit there, Slade obviously as well. But odd that he's looking at Freeman at 13 when Steward played there for Loughborough University and initially at the Tigers academy before being moved to 15 (he played 13 for half a European game a couple of seasons back as well).

Can we not just play the best 13 in the league and one of the best in Europe...Marchant!! FFS

Ha! With Eddie?!

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Post by BamBam Fri 27 May 2022, 9:52 am

It might well be the players decision, but moving Barbeary from hooker to back row full time may have not been the brightest idea if it did come from the England set up. We produce plenty of back rows at the moment but not many hookers have had his open play prowess.

If it was decided based on his set piece skills not likely to ever be good enough then if makes sense, but hopefully it wasn't just because of a few eye catching back row performances

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Post by Geordie Fri 27 May 2022, 10:38 am

Barbeary has a lot of competition in the back row...at both 6 or 8.

However where he might lose out to Jack Willis in some areas, he still has areas where he beats the others.

I guess it comes down to how Jones sets up the back 5. And we know 6 is already taken with a lock style player.

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 27 May 2022, 12:15 pm

BamBam wrote:It might well be the players decision, but moving Barbeary from hooker to back row full time may have not been the brightest idea if it did come from the England set up. We produce plenty of back rows at the moment but not many hookers have had his open play prowess.

If it was decided based on his set piece skills not likely to ever be good enough then if makes sense, but hopefully it wasn't just because of a few eye catching back row performances


It was entirely the player's decision. He's said so a number of times, but Jones still gets accused of playing  puppetmaster, when he probably would have preferred AB to stay as a hooker option.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 28 May 2022, 12:30 pm

Apologies if this has already been posted:




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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 29 May 2022, 2:35 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:This weekend, George Kruis' team, the Saitama Wild Knights, made the Japanese League One final.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220522/p2g/00m/0sp/034000c

Kruis has added the inaugural Japanese League One title to his English and European honours.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220529/p2g/00m/0sp/023000c

Coach Robbie Deans said this:

He also paid tribute to departing forward George Kruis, who brought down the curtain on a career that included 45 caps for England and multiple club titles with English side Saracens.

"(It was) great for George to go out that way. He got knocked around a lot in the game," laughed Deans. "He is a player who has a remarkable history of success, first of all at Saracens, and obviously, he's been here for two years and won two titles, but he's a good man."

"We'll miss his humor, and it's been great to have had him for two years."


https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220529/p2g/00m/0sp/040000c

That makes Kruis the third former Saracens lock to win a club title this season (after Joel Kpoku for Lyon, and Will Skelton for La Rochelle)

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 29 May 2022, 4:09 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:This weekend, George Kruis' team, the Saitama Wild Knights, made the Japanese League One final.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220522/p2g/00m/0sp/034000c

Kruis has added the inaugural Japanese League One title to his English and European honours.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220529/p2g/00m/0sp/023000c

Coach Robbie Deans said this:

He also paid tribute to departing forward George Kruis, who brought down the curtain on a career that included 45 caps for England and multiple club titles with English side Saracens.

"(It was) great for George to go out that way. He got knocked around a lot in the game," laughed Deans. "He is a player who has a remarkable history of success, first of all at Saracens, and obviously, he's been here for two years and won two titles, but he's a good man."

"We'll miss his humor, and it's been great to have had him for two years."


https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220529/p2g/00m/0sp/040000c

That makes Kruis the third former Saracens lock to win a club title this season (after Joel Kpoku for Lyon, and Will Skelton for La Rochelle)
That's an interesting observation. As long as no current Saracens player wins a championship this season....

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 29 May 2022, 6:21 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Isiekwe is potentially just a bit to light for the way Eddie wants to play, seems to want a bigger lump in row alongside Itoje. Sarries do sometimes opt for a different lock combination and go with Swinson against bigger packs.

The Daily Heil is going with a story that Freeman will be trialed at 13 this summer. Added versatility is seen as a potential bonus to the overall squad and being able to cover three positions would be helpful. Apparently he played flyhalf at school level so could be useful in managing the attack from midfield which was our downfall during the 6N. Eddie does like a playmaker in the backline, Steward having also played 10 at school level as well as Furbank who plays 10 at a better standard. Think Marchant has done a bit there, Slade obviously as well. But odd that he's looking at Freeman at 13 when Steward played there for Loughborough University and initially at the Tigers academy before being moved to 15 (he played 13 for half a European game a couple of seasons back as well).

Can we not just play the best 13 in the league and one of the best in Europe...Marchant!! FFS

I imagine it would be to look at the squad options for the world cup. Daly hasn't hit much form for England recently. Having someone with pace, power and finishing ability and able to cover 11/13/14/15 in the 23 shirt could be very useful. Giving him a go at 13 in the summer whether starting or off the bench could be insurance against future problems, much like trying Furbank at 10 or Steward on the wing.

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Post by Geordie Sun 29 May 2022, 10:30 pm

The problem is Sam hes barely played Marchant at 13...so he's trialling the back up for a guy who's not settled in himself.

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Post by yappysnap Mon 30 May 2022, 3:07 am

Yea it does seem weird to keep experimenting when there's a clear first choice who needs the game time there.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 30 May 2022, 6:38 am

The first choice midfielders are Farell Tuilagi and Salde though.

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Post by Geordie Mon 30 May 2022, 8:30 am

Yes Slade is the first choice 13 but i really dont think he should be....Marchants performances at 13 are way above anything Slade is doing or has done recently.

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